Sandbox / Creators Pest Wick Check

Per ATT recommendation, doing a wick check for Creator's Pest.

The Issue: There's been debate on the kind of creator hate that qualifies. Non-OC fanwork character have been removed arguing that's just character bashing (enjoying bashing them means they enjoy working with them in that way), misused as they're not the creators of those characters/they're separate characters from the canon versions they dislike, and fanworks lack the Creativity Leash that force licensed work to use character the creators don't like as opposed to just not including them which fanworks could do. The problem is that there are many licensed works that inherit character they don't like from prior/other creators, bash/"fix" characters they don't like, and don't confirm they couldn't just drop them if they didn't like them. It has been brought this up to ATT and other cleanups repeatedly, and I proposed it be defined as creators hate working with the characters in their work rather than bashing, but it kept going nowhere, so ATT said to take to TRS.

Wicks Checked: 50/50

• 27/50 (54%) Dislikes working with/removing the character
• 7/50 (14%) Bashing or "fixing" the character
• 16/50 (32%) ZCE/other (Issue of lacking citation and unclearness on the kind of hate to quality as Creator Pest)'''

Possible fixies:

• Allow any examples where the creators state disliking the characters regardless of if they're the creator or out of their works. (Risks condoning character bashing if there's Word of God unless some additional restrictions considered)
• Allow any disliked characters, fanwork or licensed, but limit to authors disliking them in their own work not in canon/prior writers work.
• Define as creators dislike/find difficulty working with them in their works, not dislike out of them/enjoying bashing/"fixing" them. (This is in line with most of the wicks, but may duplicate Creator Backlash.) Consider renaming to make this specific kind of hate clear if so.
• Only allow use/potholes where there's explicit creator citation they dislike them.

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Dislikes working with/removing the character (27/50)

1. Trivia.Spider Man 3: Sam Raimi disliked and did not understand Venom, but was forced into including him in the film by way of Avi Arad because he wanted to attract modern Spider-Man fans. All the unpopular changes made to his character have been described as a result of this.
2. Creator.Kaiser Neko: He's expressed dislike of voicing Burter due to the character's voice doing a number on his throat.
3. Trivia.Spy Vs Spy: Antonio Prohías originally intended for the Grey Spy to represent neutrality, but quickly retired her because he found that doing so made her extremely predictable.
4. MemeticLoser.Anime And Manga: Sakura started gaining this reputation during Shippuden, and the opinion really started to blow up after the series ended. She's marketed as one of the main heroines, yet she's constantly mocked for being behind the curve compared to Naruto and Sasuke and her obsession with Sasuke is routinely seen as self-destructive (especially in comparison with Naruto and Hinata), with their marriage in the far future coming off as forced and loveless due to Sasuke being away for long periods of time and Sarada left wondering if Sakura is really her mother come The Seventh Hokage and the Scarlet Spring. And then it turned out that, out of the Rookie Nine, Sakura was Kishimoto's personal Creator's Pest and treated her as such. Trivia.Naruto confirms they were forced to include them, and disliked how they turned out but was too late to just remove them.
5. Trivia.Omori: Omocat has the opinion that Humphrey was the worst part of the game, to the point where she allegedly wished to give players a way to just skip his whole dungeon (which would have involved feeding him dynamite). She states she likes him as a character, but hates the level associated with him. There's been debate if they like the character but hate working with them counts, but putting here for now.
6. Trivia.Ben 10 Ultimate Alien: Aggregor is fairly popular amongst the fans for being an extremely competent villain, but the writing staff apparently dislikes him, and the one who came up with his design even admitted being embarrassed with it. He apparently was going to have a minor role for the Rooter story arc in Ben 10: Omniverse (where he was going to be killed off, with that), but the idea was dropped because the writers were in no hurry to bring him back.
7. YMMV.Prehistoric Earth: Creator's Pet: With Luczynski's admittance to her and Drew being amongst his favorite characters, plus Nathanoraptor's own thoughts about her, Cynthia initially came across as this. The fact that Luczynski reportedly tried immensely hard to push her into being a secondary main character alongside Drew at the potential expense of Jack and Leon certainly didn't help her case. However, thanks to several subsequent developments she's undergone, her and Drew becoming an official couple, not to mention the heavily hinted possibility that she might be a mole working for the villains, and later confirmation as a mole...working for the heroes, she has successfully shaken off this initial impression. And even that wasn't enough to save her from still ranking fairly low in popularity amongst the readers or initially spending a couple years facing the possibility of getting Adapted Out of the subsequent reboot Prehistoric Park Reimagined. Trivia confirms Nathanoraptor disliked working with them.
8. Trivia.Luann: Greg Evans has stated Delta was this due to her being perfect with almost no flaws, she was difficult to write for, and was the major factor in the character being written out of the strip in 2014.
9. The New Order Last Days Of Europe:
   • The British Empire Expeditionary Forces, a faction in the cut Indian Civil War Anarchy, was loathed by the dev team since its inception because the pointlessly horrific atrocities they would commit (ranging from cannibalism to human sacrifice) were deemed too tasteless for the mod.
   • Bogi Smerti, a warlord state of bandits that was to emerge from RK Moskowien's collapse, was removed after the developers believed that it simply didn't make enough sense and was too reliant on the shock value of their design.
10. Trivia.Dark Souls I: In one interview with Miyazaki, he explained that he didn't plan for Gwynevere's design as he originally planned for something more "refined" and motherly. When he saw the artist's look of happiness, he just didn't have the heart to say no.
11. Trivia.Beast Wars: Played straight, but subverted later on. The writers hated Waspinator and his speech pattern, along with being required to appear regularly, so they took every opportunity that they had to write him out of episodes by blowing him to pieces. After a while, when the character became a fan-favorite and the writers' opinions softened on him, they eventually requested Hasbro spare him in Season 2's ending on the basis of his popularity.
12. Back for the Dead: In "201", Pip, who hadn't had any speaking line since season 6, came back to deliver a Sedgwick Speech and be killed by Mecha-Streisand moments later. Word of God says that they were tired of fans asking about what happened to him, especially since they never liked him much anyway. Although, according to southparkstudios.com, he might come back someday.
13. Trivia.Eighth Doctor Adventures: According to editor Stephen Cole, none of the writers liked Sam Jones. So much that they were always trying to kill her off. (Or, in Kate Orman and Jonathan Blum's case, make her a fully rounded character.)
14. Family Guy S 5 E 3 Hell Comes To Quahog: Running Gagged: This marks the final appearance of Paddy Tanniger the Caddy Manager, invokedwhom no one on the writing staff liked, as he is killed by Meg's tank. Trivia page states DVD commentary confirmed creator hate.
15. Trivia.The Conversion Bureau The Other Side Of The Spectrum: Marcus Renee increasingly became this for the other writers of Team Spectrum, especially Doctor Fluffy and Jed, largely because they couldn't stomach his more abrasive aspects and the way the narrative kept glossing over his flaws. This was one of the main reasons behind why Marcus was Adapted Out of the reboot and replaced with the Suspiciously Similar Substitute Alexander Reiner (and even then, the authors went out of their way to significantly tone down those aforementioned abrasive aspects when writing Alex).
16. Reality Subtext: Speed Metal and Infinite Frontier #0, have Wally and Barry discuss the things Wally has endured in recent years, and how they were largely the result of Wally being pushed aside by Barry's return. In-universe, this is because they started with Flashpoint, an event Barry caused, and that many of them could have been mitigated had Barry put in the effort to help Wally. Out-of-universe, it's because Creator's Pet and Creator's Pest treatment for the two caused Barry to be given preferential treatment at Wally's expense. Barry makes amends by stepping aside and letting Wally be the Flash again, just as Joshua Williamson steps aside to let a new writer take over the Flash book with Wally as the lead once more. Trivia.The Flash confirms it valid.
17. Questionable Casting: It's even more apparent in Terrence's case, who was voiced by the aforementioned Tara Strong. To learn that the actress behind Nice Girl Bubbles and Deadpan Snarker Raven also played a unrepentant Big Brother Bully comes off as very off-putting. Tara Strong has made it clear that she hated voicing Terrence, which begs the question of why another actor wasn't chosen to replace her.
18. CreatorBacklash.Western Animation: Tex Avery expressed a dislike for his character Screwy Squirrel, even going so far as to kill him off for real at the end of Screwy's fifth and final short. In a BBC documentary, Mark Kausler once told Avery he sent him letters with drawings of Screwy Squirrel on them in the hope that his hero would be more prone to open and read them. As it turned out, Avery simply threw each letter with Screwy's face on it in the trash can!
19. Trivia.Halloween The Curse Of Michael Myers: Many of Donald Pleasence's scenes were edited out of the film because Joe Chappelle found him "boring".
20. Trivia.Dads Army: David Croft wrote that Private Cheeseman was "irritating without being funny", and as an exotic Celt, he was too similar to Private Frazer. John Laurie also disliked the character (in contrast to Croft, he was concerned that Cheeseman was getting too many laughs), and requested that he not return for the next season.
21. Trivia.Carrie: Stephen King admitted that he didn't like Carrie or Sue Snell as characters, feeling that Carrie had little personality or development beyond being a bullying victim (and compared her actions to school shooters), and that Sue's motives for helping her weren't convincing.
22. Trivia.Total Drama Superstar Showdown: The author admits that Trick was a poorly-handled and unlikable character, and actively tried to get him out of the story as soon as possible.
23. Trivia.Persona The Sougawa Files: Satomi Kobayashi is a character Arsene dislikes, even though she doesn't necessarily hate them - it's more the events surrounding them than anything else. Pages Creator Backlash entry confirms kind of hate.
24. Trivia.Undertale: If the jokes the game makes about it are meant to be taken at face value, then it appears that Temmie Chang's least favourite monster is Aaron. The True Pacifist credits claim she designed him "reluctantly", and making Aaron appear by flexing during a fight with a Temmie will cause her to run away in disgust. Despite possible joke this leans too valid.
25. Trivia.Justice League 2017: In 2022, Joss Whedon said that he reduced Cyborg's role because the storyline "logically made no sense" and he felt that Ray Fisher's acting was bad.
26. Trivia.A Girl And Her Bike: Swap admits that of all the characters in the story, Adam Taurus is the one he hates the most. This is due to his horrific domestic abuse of Blake, resulting in writing for him being an incredibly discomforting experience. Might violate current ban on non-oc fanwork, but still about disliking working with them as opposed to them in source material.
27. Trivia.Freeze Flame: FreezeFlame22 used to feel this way about Ms. Bishop, as he percieved her as a bland character with little to no personality outside of being an Apathetic Teacher. This, alongside being unable to find a voice actress that could do a posh British accent at the time, was the reason why Ms. Bishop was ultimately retired from Carl, with the In-Universe explanation being that she moved to the Kaktus Kingdom permanently. As time went by, Freeze changed his mind about this and Ms. Bishop returned when the first three seasons of Carl were remastered, showing up with a new character design, being voiced by Carmen and later on BluePastels (who are able to do a posh British accent), and with a slightly different characterization, with further confirmation that she would be appearing in the sixth season of the series.

Bashing or "fixing" the character (7/50)

1. Characters.Yu Yu Hakusho Supporting Cast: In the beginning she played a more active role in helping Yusuke come back to life. Not soon after she gets shoehorned to the side, ends up cleaning after Yusuke’s mess and being Locked Out of the Loop about most spiritual matters. It doesn’t help that Togashi himself said that hedid not like Keiko all that much, and admitted that he primarily created her to be a character that Yusuke can emote to. Not regret how they turned out such, fixed them by reducing her prominence.
2. TheScrappy.Web Videos: The Meditation Guy from The Uncanny Valley for his reedy voice, being the standard New Age Take That!, and always interrupting The Webmaster's cool moments. It even became a Creator's Pest for Rob after the series' release. Luckily, Diamanda Hagan made him, Nash and the Critic explode, and watched them burn in hell for a while before reversing time.
3. Characters.Freedom Fighters NEO Weil Arc: He's the one Mega Man character The Merger Magikoopa hates the most. Hate Sink: Because of how much The Merger Magikoopa hates Weil, the latter is portrayed even worse than in the games. He claims that marriage between Reploids is illegal (which makes Dr. Koopa and everyone who supports him outlaws). He then tries to cause a Class Z by destroying Kingdom Hearts. Trivia on Main.
4. Trivia.Justice Society Of America: Author's Saving Throw: Cross-franchise example, but prior to joining the JSA book, Jesse Quick was, until recently beforehand, part of the Titans (1999); under writer Devin Grayson, she was set up to be The Lancer and protege to team leader Nightwing and was an Ensemble Dark Horse. Until, the creative team changed and writer Jay Faerber took over, who for some reason just didn't like her^note per his own claim, he saw her as the 'outsider' of the team who didn't fit with the others, and she suddenly became moody, impulsive, and a Butt-Monkey who ended up in an adulterous affair with her mother's fiance which indirectly got him killed. Fans of her character, from both Grayson's run and her previvous role in The Flash, were not amused by how she was treated, so in the pages of Flash, Geoff Johns (also the writer of JSA), had Jesse give up her powers in a Heroic Sacrifice, quit her job, join the JSA as a business manager, and then as a supporting character here got re-railed, and then get serious Character Development as she took over her mother's legacy and found love in Hourman II. While some Flash fans weren't happy about her codename change (she later reverted back anyway) and shippers didn't like how out of nowhere her and Rick's marriage was, the sudden improvement to her treatment allowed that chapter with the Titans to easily fall into discontinuity.
5. Trivia.Transformers Revenge Of The Fallen: Michael Bay hated Arcee and not only killed her off, he openly announced she would die an unceremonious death four months before the film’s release with a smile on his face.
6. Trivia.Power Rangers Megaforce: In a variant, the reason the second season removes the pirate motif from the Sentai is down to Haim Saban's personal disdain for pirates leading to him personally insisting that they never be portrayed as good guys in his shows.
7. Characters.Let The Darkness Bring Us Into The Light: The Friend Nobody Likes: Despite his commitment to stopping crime, almost everyone around him as a negative opinion about him. Yuugi strongly hates him for being so unnecessarily destructive, Izuku notes how he doesn't have the same peaceful and pleasant atmosphere as All Might, Jounouchi also hates him and collects memes that ridicule him, and Seto Kaiba considers him a nuisance who gives Support Companies headaches with his reckless fighting habits. It's also worth mentioning that the author despises him and shows no pity during their storytelling. Also doesn't confirm the hate was admitted.

ZCE/other (16/50)

1. Memes.Mortal Kombat 11: Hsu Hao for MK11! ^Explanation Hsu Hao is quite possibly the least popular character in Mortal Kombat history, being despised by fans as much as by the creators themselves. This led to fans starting a movement where they sarcastically requested his inclusion in the game. The fanbase started spamming Hsu Hao memes on Reddit, and a petition for his inclusion as DLC was also made. By the release of the game, he was eventually included... as a mutilated corpse that Erron Black carries around in a burlap sack during one of his intros. Although some fans got a bit of a bone thrown to them when Hsu Hao made an appearance in Joker's Tower Ending. This and his other Pest entries fail to state why he's hated by the creators.
2. YMMV.The Quintessential Quintuplets: The ending: Many feel that Fuutarou ending up in an argument with Itsuki rather than giving a heartwarming speech towards her (As he did with her sisters) was fitting given their relationship. Others find it unfair towards Itsuki, especially on top of aforementioned moment above, to the point where they started to wonder if Negi hates her. Misuse as fans spectating that rather than creator confirmation they hate them.
3. Trivia.Jorels Brother: Rose, seeing as she had been demoted from a main character to a recurring one before the show was even finished, and then was phased out of the show after Season 2. It's also noteworthy that Juliano often mentioned about how Granny Gigi had her cigarette replaced by a lollipop, but never mentions the alteration of Rose's species from human to octopus. Lacks confirmation they hate her and why.
4. Trivia.Ninja Turtles The Next Mutation: Venus de Milo to Peter Laird, again. Couldn't find anything anywhere giving context.
5. 442oons: Ensemble Dark Horse: Troy Parrot, ever since he was (surprisingly) picked for the Frontmen a lot of fans liked his character and (especially) his gimmick. Dean on the other hand seems to not like him. ZCE why creator hates.
6. Trivia.Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2003: Creator's Favorite: Peter Laird didn't like Hun at first, but he eventually became one of his favorites as the series went on, to the point that, after hinting at it, Hun became part of the Mirage comics. ZCE. Creator of original comic, unclear if involved enough in this series to count.
7. Video Games: Due to him being an obvious ripoff of Tetsuo Shima from the AKIRA manga (or because SNK just don't plain like him), K9999 from The King of Fighters 2001 was kicked out in the Updated Re-release of The King of Fighters 2002 (Unlimited Match) and replaced by "Nameless," whose fighting style is fundamentally identical to K9999's as well as his backstory, being cloned from Kyo and K'. While K9999 is a complete jerk, Nameless' story makes him rather sympathetic (thanks to his Morality Pet Isolde). This and The King of Fighters only speculated they were hated as opposed to replaced for legal reasons.
8. Trivia.Bryan Danielson: Possibly the biggest in all of professional wrestling. WWE never really intended him to be any more than a midcarder, despite his obvious talent and charisma, but the fans just would not let him go. The 2014 Road to WrestleMania in particular ended up being completely torn up following the debacle at the Royal Rumble when Bryan didn't enter, and with CM Punk walking out of the company following the match and the audience effectively hijacking the shows to demand Bryan, WWE were forced to reinsert him into the title picture, first facing off against Triple H to earn a spot on the main event, and then winning said main event when it was obvious that if Randy Orton or Batista won the crowd would probably riot. Commented out as lacks creator confirmation they hate.
9. Trivia.Mortal Kombat 3: Chameleon. Commented out as ZCE.
10. Adaptational Jerkass: Davis in Digimon Adventure 02 is given this treatment in the dub, due to being the unfortunate Creator's Pest. He outright refers to Kari as "his girl" and is hostile towards TK due to how close he is with Kari. Originally, he's just your typical Stock Shōnen Hero who just wants to impress a girl he has a crush on. 'Can't find confimation/reason on author hate. Fits both bashing and forced to include despite not liking'' categories.
11. YMMV.Dragon Ball Super: Epileptic Trees: Meta example, but fans believe Tien's a personal Creator's Pest for the creative staff due to how Out of Focus he is in both the anime and manga. This video expands on it.
12. PlayingWith.Secret Character: Enforced: Persephone is hated by most of the developers, so they made it complicated to get her. Can apply to any kind of creator hate not just disliking working with them.
13. Trivia.Doctor Who S 11 E 3 Death To The Daleks: It is believed that incoming script editor Robert Holmes came up with the title out of his dislike of the Daleks. Speculation, might be valid if it's by one of the creators.
14. Tropes 0 to F: Dropped a Bridge on Him: Done completely by accident with the mercenary unit The Black Thorns, whom had been the subject of two novels and one sourcebook. Early into the Jihad arc, fighting between Combine and Suns forces accidentally released a deadly bio-engineered plague on the planet Galedon V which led to the planet being sterilized with nukes. When a writer later wanted to write a short story on the Black Thorns, fact checkers discovered the unit had been last seen assigned to garrison duty on Galedon V... Rather than try to retcon or rewrite the story, the developers simply decided the Black Thorns were all wiped out from either the plague or the nuclear bombardment. They weren't terribly broken up by the error — Here's then-Line Developer Herb Beas' recollection of how he reacted to the situation. Complete with a Sincerity Mode "Not Making This Up" Disclaimer. Creator's reaction ""Really? Ah, that's just too bad..." (with a smile on his face)." doesn't say if they disliked the character or liked the amusing situation.
15. Trivia.Batman Beyond" Not a sentiment shared by everyone, but several of the crew, including Bruce Timm, are on record as to hating Max Gibson, who was loved by co-creator Alan Burnett. This is an example where there are also as much viewers who loved her as there are those who couldn't stand her. Doesn't say why/king of hated.
16. YMMV.Arrowverse Vandal Savage is widely considered one of, if not the worst villains in the Arrowverse. This started when the crossover episodes combined him with the jealous priest Hath-Set from Hawkman and Hawkgirl's origin stories. This results in a Romantic Plot Tumor that takes away much of Savage's trademark Wicked Cultured nature, as the show instead focuses on his Villainous Crush on Hawkgirl. Plus he's not nearly as old (and thus less experienced) as the comic version who was a caveman. While Legends of Tomorrow tried to reemphasize his malevolence and cruelty, Casper Crump ultimately fails at bringing the necessary menace to the role despite his acting chops (Savage's Adaptational Wimp status certainly didn't help). Savage is looked back upon by both fan and the writers as one of the biggest problem with the first season of the show. Would be valid but can't find confirmation creators stated hate.