Headscratchers / The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim 1

• The Main Quest, Dragons and being Dovahkiin (you are here)
• Major questlines: Companions, College of Winterhold, Thieves' Guild, Civil War
• Other side quests
• The Aedra, Daedra, creatures and people encountered
• The Thu'um and Magic
• The DLCs: Dawnguard, Hearthfire and Dragonborn
• Lore and History of the Elder Scrolls
• The meta: questions about gameplay mechanics

Dragons

Draconic names

• All draconic names consist of three syllables: each syllable a single word. "Odahviig" is "Snow Hunter Wing," Alduin is "Destroyer Devour Master," and so forth. What is "Akatosh?"
  • Not necessarily a draconic name. Auriel doesn't seem to be, after all, and there is always Alkosh to consider.
  • Alduin is not Akatosh. Akatosh is not a draconic name.
  • An acronym standing for 'Also Known As The Old Smaug Himself'. Akatosh was named long before dragon names were finalized.
  • What about Dovahkiin? That's three syllables and it's draconic. Also, does that mean he could in theory be summoned by someone?
    • Yeah, the Greybeards. They're pretty loud about it, too.
    • Dovahkiin is A) a term, not a name, and B) a mortal, not a dragon, so s/he cannot be simply summoned. The Dragonborn is perfectly able to respond to a summons by anyone with the Thu'um with a fart and a raised middle finger. Odhaviing can't.
    • Oddaviing can - he doesn't have to follow your summon, he chooses to.
    • Dovahkiin is also not three words, it's two. "Dovah" = "dragon"; "kiin" = "born". Not all draconic words are only one syllable.
    • Actually, Dovahkiin has TWO meanings in Draconic. There's the above, there's also "Dov" = Wyrm, "Ah" = Hunter, "Kiin" = Born, ie: Born hunter of Wyrms. Note that both definitions match what a Dovahkiin really is.
    • Similarly, there's a Dragon Priest in Dragonborn named Zahkriisos, which can either be translated to "Zahkrii Sos"(Sword Blood) or "Zah Krii Sos" (Finite Kill Blood). Zahkrii might come from Zah Krii because a sword is a mundane, or "finite" way of killing things, as opposed to a magical or divine way of killing things, which is linked to the infinite.
    • Odahviing, if spoken to, makes it clear that he doesn't have to come when you call. He initially comes because he wants to see if you're all that, and afterwards because he respects you. Parthunax and Esbern both say the same thing, shouting a Dragon's name out means they will hear it, but they can ignore it. Esbern says Odahviing will come the first time because your defeat of Alduin is bound to make him curious, and your calling his name in the wake of such a victory is a clear challenge.
    • As pointed out, Dovahkiin is a title, not a name, each Dovahkiin most likely had their own Dovah name.
    • As semi-confirmed by Miraak, though he might have that name simply because he was a Dragon Priest.
  • A related question would be what Naafilargus means - that fellow was a Tamriel-based dragon, so he doesn't have Akatosh's excuse of being a god with twin-mirrors in many cultures (Alkosh, Auri-El, before this game Alduin, and quite possibly still Alduin, if some of the Lore Forum theorizing on what firstborn of Akatosh means is correct^note Firstborn, for instance, could be indicative of Alduin being the first aspect of Akatosh to spin off as its own again).
    • Nafaalilargus is believed to be a corruption of the "Nahfahlaar" mentioned in the Atlas Of Dragons. Now with the words we know we can't perform a complete traslation, but the closest would be: "Fury For ?". That does not mesh well with the naming conventions of dragons, "for" not being at all descriptive. If we consider that his name be "Nahfahliil" we come out with "Fury Elf" which is not much better, being only two words long where all other names are three. Around about then I lost track of all the possible syllabic combinations and get confused.
    • "Nahfahlaar" could be "Nah-fahl-aar", which would be "Fury ? Slave", but that's still suboptimal.
    • It could be that Nahfahlaar was something of a berserker, who was known for losing himself to fury and becoming a raging beast in combat (akin to a moniker referring to someone as "Rage-blind" or the like among Nords)
    • Unfortunately, I think we're stuck with the Doylist explanation: the writers introduced Nafaalilargus (I can't say his name without thinking of Mr. Snuffleupagus) long before they worked out the Dovah language and naming conventions, and there isn't really a right answer.

Who gets the souls of people who serve multiple beings?

• It's heavily implied that all Dark Brotherhood members serve Sithis after death. The Thieves Guild questline involves Nocturnal getting claim to your soul as well. Additionally, Hircine gets the souls of deceased werewolves. So... what happens when the lycanthropic Listener and Agent of Nocturnal kicks the bucket?
  • Obviously, they settle things in the manner of all supernatural beings-at-odds: they play poker.
  • The player is the Shezzarine. He can only exist in Mundus because that's where his heart is.
    • The player is not Shezzarine, his soul it that of a Dragon - thus comes from Akatosh, not Shezzar/Lorkhan.
    • Except for you can clearly enter Sovngarde, and depending on where Sanguine's party was, may have entered Oblivion. So much about only existing in Mundus
    • Taking a field trip to Sovngarde may not be all that difficult for a Shezzarine, depending on Sovngarde's exact nature and "location" (especially if it was really established by Shor).
    • Sorry for this (what i assume is stupid) question, but where is it stated that he is Shazzarine? After researching, it seems that a Shezzarine is sent whenever humanity needs a champion, so does that mean that all player characters, by default, are Shezzarine?
    • Not quite: there wouldn't be a need if someone is already on the job (which 'Azura's Pawn', the Nerevarine would be for Morrowind), and Arena and Daggerfall didn't really have threats of such a great scope (Redguard certainly didn't). That, plus it seems the humanity in a Shezzarine's job isn't humanity in the sense of the sapient races, or even of the playable races - it is Mankind, as separate from the Mer and the Beast Races (the Dovahkiin's Shezzarine-long term job may actually not be Alduin, but rather the Thalmor).
  • That and "Serve Sithis" basically means "stop existing in the mortal realm". Sithis is pretty much just a metaphysical representation of nothingness.
  • Since you have the soul of a dragon, I would say that Akatosh gets dibs.
  • Assuming Sithis doesn't immediately annihilate your soul upon death, Nocturnal would probably barter her stake to Hircine for something or other.
  • Maybe the Dovahkiin gets off scott free by paying them off with the many, many dragon souls that were absorbed during life?
  • Personally I like to think you just pulled off a Did You Just Scam Cthulhu? variant that I like to call the Constantine Loophole. By selling your soul to multiple entities, you ensure they have to fight over it, allowing you to walk away free and clear.
  • It's likely that the Dovahkiin will pull something similar to Talos and ascend to godhood after the events of the game. A similar stunt was pulled with the Champion of Cyrodiil becoming Sheogorath, and becoming an Aedra would likely clear you of afterlife debts.
  • There's also the possibility of never dying, due to vampirism. You could very likely cheat all 15 Daedras, 9 Divines and Sithis out of a soul by simply never dying.
  • This happens.
  • The Dragonborn's been planning this. S/He lets the Daedric Princes fight it out while they either A) return to Tamriel or B) walk back into Sovngarde and be welcomed with open arms.
    • Judging from Miraak's deal with Hermaeus Mora, the deal still stands even if you're Dragonborn, but it won't exactly be easy for any of the Princes to enforce it.
    • Also keep in mind that Miraak never got a chance to Mantle like Talos and ascend to godhood. If the Dragonborn can do so, s/he would likely be too big a player for a Daedric rince to fuck with.
    • Most Dragonborn never became gods either (Just look at St-Alessia or Reman). Talos is hardly an example. Godhood's not something one casually achieves - even for a Dragonborn.
    • Which is....not relevant to my point. I said if the Dragonborn mantles. I didn't say s/he would, or was likely to.
    • Considering the Dovahkiin's role in The Thieve's Guild, The Blades, The Dark Brotherhood, and every organization in the game, I don't think it'd be a stretch to assume he also made godhood.
  • Alternatively to all of this, Vivec makes it clear that Console Commands are an actual thing gods get to play with. Skyrim makes it clear that only a dragon can keep a dragon dead. Prophecy makes it clear that the Dragonborn is required to beat up Alduin until he behaves like a good little Crystal Dragon Jesus, and this is enforced by Akatosh. So, if gameplay controls exist in-universe for gods, and the Dragonborn works for Akatosh, the player is Akatosh, and every time the Dragonborn dies, he reloads the save. Back to "Only a dragon can keep a dragon dead", well, there's no dragon in the 'verse powerful enough to kill the Dovahkiin at this point. Who says they are going to die of old age? Perhaps from the first time they used the Thu'um, they stopped aging. Dragons don't age, and you're a dragon soul in a mortal body. That's a lot of power locked in there, perhaps enough to make aging just stop. As long as a dragon doesn't kill the Dragonborn, it should be fine. As for Miraak? He didn't die of old age. Talos lived past 100, remarkably long for a mortal, and then he became a god. So, perhaps the Dragonborn will die when the Dragonborn wants to, and not a moment sooner.
  • It's actually hinted the dragonborn is at least a semi-immortal being before all the vampirism and so forth, due to the dragons soul, the sort who as above said, cannot actually die, but can be killed, see the proper definition of immortal is "unable to die" being unable to be killed is Invincable. basically you can stab the dragonborn to death but he won't die of old age.
  • So... what happens when the lycanthropic Listener and Agent of Nocturnal kicks the bucket? If what Kodlak says when you cure his lycanthropy is any indication, then Tsun, Shor, Ysgramor, and thousands of years' worth of dead Nord heroes will put down the mead, pick up their swords, and storm the realm of whatever Daedric Prince dared to lay claim to their shield brother/sister's soul.

No one realizing what Alduin is

• How come people don't realize that Alduin has returned sooner? When you fight him on the throat of the world, he opens with "My belly is full of the souls of Your fellow Mortal, Dovakhiin" and I assume that either: the nords can tell the difference between their own god of destruction and an ordinary dragon, or that Alduin would tell everyone as he swooped in, to instill fear, because he doesn't believe anyone can stop him
  • How is anyone going to tell the difference between Alduin and any other dragon? He doesn't look that different compared with other dragons, especially when everyone who he's attacking is going to have their hands full simply fighting back or fleeing, and won't have time to notice the minute differences between him and other dragons and compare them to the limited legendary lore. The only ones who could tell the difference between Alduin and any other dragon would be learned sages or wizards.
  • True, he doesn't really look all that different from other dragons I'll give you that, but as I said, Alduin knows that the only people who have a snowball's chance in hell of stopping him already knows who he is, so what's to stop him from invoking his identity to instill fear. IDK maybe "Foolish mortal, you face Alduin World Eater. Look upon me and tremble for your end is nigh" or some Badass Boast like that. Being chased by an unstoppable mythic killing machine is scary. Being chased by the most powerful and evil king of unstoppable mythic killing machines is about ten times worse.
    • Anyone who he did reveal his identity to likely isn't going to be alive long enough to spread word of his presence, and if someone did survive, they've really got no proof that it really is Alduin beyond their own word.
    • Alduin has no reason to instill fear in anyone. He's there to revive the dragons, and will move onto step two of whatever his intentions are once he's got the dragons moving again.
  • Alduin means souls literally. As in the people from Sovngarde he's been eating. Not people in Skyrim.
  • In his first appearance in the game he just went about destroying whatever he saw. At that point you didn't even know dragons were sentient, let alone immortal beings. Alduin likely just never boasted about anything and was hunting the Dragonborn. When Mirmulnir died at your hands, Alduin realized his mistake and now knew exactly who he was after, so he can boast to you as much as he wants now.
    • Not true. Alduin is constantly spewing Boss Banter at the Imperials in Draconic during the Helgen sequence, including his own name. He's just rarely close enough for you to hear it, or for subtitles to kick in.

Alduin's goals?

• Whie we're on the subject of Alduin,What exactly is his goal? To elababorate, they pretty much set out two paths a: he will kill devour souls, and go to sovngarde, devour souls of the dead to gain incredible power, and use it to bring about the apocalypse, destroying Tamriel to make way for the next world. or b: I think they said that the first dragon war was a dragon crusade similar in nature to the (tamerilic) modern Thalmor, i.e. dragons are the superior race, and deserve to be kings of the world, with everyone else as slaves. So which is it? destroy world or enslave it? Also, the Elder Scrolls Wiki claims that when alduin returns in skyrim, he summons with him the souls of dead nords and cloaked said souls in the flesh forms of dragons. where in the name of Talos did they get that idea? I would think that even if you cloaked the soul of a mortal human in the flesh of a dragon, it would radically different from an actual dragon, since a mortal soul probably wouldn't have innate knowledge of dragon shout language.
  • Yeah, that wiki entry should probably be changed(removed). There's no sources linked in it and I don't recall seeing even the slightest hint in the game that would suggest human souls in dragon bodies. It's probably just a misinterpretation of what he does with the souls he eats in Sovngarde.
    • As for Alduin's goal, it could be either one of those. A definitive answer is never given. Paarthurnax seems to suggest that, should Alduin win, the current world will indeed come to an end and a new one will begin. Whether or not he is speaking metaphorically(as in world=civilisation) we don't know for sure.
    • It is entirely possible that Alduin maintains standards for when he starts the world-munching. The kalpa was fairly young in the Merethic Era (which is probably when the Dragon War occured... it certainly did not occur after), so he might simply have been running a world-enslaving gig while waiting for the world to be sufficiently juicy.
  • Most likely he's just trying to reestablish his old draconic imperial dictatorship. Remember that Alduin was sent forward in time from a period where he ruled over Skyrim, so his motivations likely haven't changed in the slightest. Alduin's presence is likely to herald the end times if he's allowed to run amok, as a psychotic dragon-Hitler who wages war in an effort to take over the world for his endless dragon empire is probably going to inflict all manner of apocalyptic hilarity on the world no matter what he does.
  • As I understand it, Alduin's original purpose is to eat the world, to clear it out for the next kalpa. However, he got a bit arrogant in his power and strayed from that purpose. He's kinda like Davey Jones in Pirates of the Carribean. He got cast adrift in time before Akatosh could get a Dragonborn on the scene (IE: beyond the Time God's reach), but by the time Alduin came back, there was a Dragonborn available.
    • I thought they managed to give Alduin a time-out until such a time that a Dragonborn was available to 'definitively' put an end to his reign? That's what they used the Elder Scroll for. Granted, it's been a while since I saw this part of the storyline, so I may be a bit fuzzy on the details.
  • You'd need to dig into some more obscure lore, but there's some strong indications that Alduin seeks to conquer and enslave the world because that will lead to the destruction of the world, the casting down of the Towers, and the return to the Dawn Era and the beginning of the next kalpa. Alduin isn't simply a dragon, he's also the World-Eater, the Anthropomorphic Personification of whatever event destroys the world and returns it to the Dawn Era so that the kalpa can be renewed into the Merethic Era. The Dragon War was effectively an apocalyptic event that was going to see the world destroyed and a new Dawn Era begin; Alduin the brutal dictator of the Dragon Cult, was a catalyst for Alduin, the World-Eater, to end the world in a colossal battle between two armies who both could wield the Thu'um. Of course, Alduin the dragon didn't plan this, since as a dragon it's simply in his nature to dominate and control, but he nonetheless set things in motion so that he would eventually eat the world and start the next round of the cycle.

The Dragonborn being the only one to kill dragons

• Why does everyone say that only the PC can really kill a dragon? I understand that while Alduin is alive during the storyline absorbing the dragon's soul is the only way to keep alduin from resurecting the dragon again, but a fatal wound would still force Alduin to have to ressurect it again. And after he's dead, they can't be ressurected anymore.
  • Because just because he/she/it/schme can't resurrect the dragon doesn't mean something else can't? You're the only one who can ensure they stay gone, and don't wound up being raised by some other force like a sorcerer or something.
  • The issue isn't that the dragon can be dealt a fatal wound. The issue is that a Dragonborn is the only one who can permanently kill a dragon. Otherwise Alduin's just going to show up and bring the downed dragon back to life. Without a Dragonborn, you're pretty much going to be stuck fighting an endless wave of reinforcements as Alduin keeps ressurecting all the dragons you kill.
    • Anyone powerful enough can ruin a dragon's body. But to permanently separate a dragon's soul from the remnants of its body requires another dragon... regardless of what kind of body this other dragon is in. Hence, the Dragonborn's dragonsoul snackin'.
    • Because the dragons will actually come back to life shortly after death if not permanently killed by the removal of their soul. In simpler terms: Dovahkiin snacks their soul which destroys their flesh and disconnects them from their physical world anchor as well as turning their knowledge into the Dovahkiin's.
    • No, the dragons will not resurrect. Not unless someone (and Alduin is the only entity confirmed to be able to do this) brings them back. Remember, they stayed dead for millennia after the first Dragon War. The LDB himself might be able to resurrect them, since Alduin did it with a Shout, that could potentially be learnable, but it seems unlikely. My guess is the whole idea of TLDB being the only one to really kill dragons is just an uninformed populace at work.
  • It's important to keep in mind that Alduin isn't truly dead. He can still return to the world. Gods in the Elder Scrolls do not really die, they simply slumber, much like Lorkhan is slumbering now after he was "killed" by Auri-El. Alduin can theoretically return to Mundus after his defeat at the Dragonborn's hand and resume resurrecting dragons.

Why can only the Dragonborn kill Alduin?

• Do they actually explain how it is that Dovahkiin is able to kill alduin? I know the wall says its his destiny to slay the world eater, but it is very clearly stated that he is immortal. three of the most awesome heroes in nordic history, warriors who, as shown in the time wound, killed dragons about as easily as Dovahkiin does, and are capable of dragonshouts (though only through training the mortal way) couldn't even touch him, and thus needed to cast him adrift in time with the scroll. Dovahkiin is badass, but is there any real reason that we have the ability to slay a previously immortal creature other than, "because it was carved into an ancient piece of akaviri wall art"
  • The ancients didn't really know how to destroy Alduin. They knew that it'd take somebody with a Dragonborn's abilities, but they couldn't figure out the steps inbetween "find Dragonborn" and "kill immortal dragon god". The best they could do was set down a warning for future generations in hopes that after a few millennia of preparation they'd have something more substantial ready. If they actually knew what to do, they'd have left detailed instructions instead.
    • To hijack off this, the Akaviri wall art isn't *just* Akaviri wall art though, it's Wall Art based off of an Elder Scroll's prophecy. So the only variable that is really in question, is the specifics about the Dragonborn beyond them being a Dragonborn alive at the right time, since being a Prisoner and all, not even the Elder Scrolls can bind their fate. But they can bind Alduin's, so the only one who can kill Alduin is Alduin and *maybe* a different Hero, but they'd have to do some loopholeing to pull it off.
  • There's no guarantee that Alduin is permanently gone. After all, you don't absorb his soul. Furthermore, he's not a regular dragon, as he's Akatosh's son. More likely is that you've effectively put off the end of the world for a while, much like the heroes of old did before, but this time without the use of an Elder Scroll to rape the space-time continuum. Now he just has to wait until he can reform, somewhat like Barbas will if you kill him in Clavicus Vile's quest.
    • Odds are that Akatosh will have a few strong words with his wayward son about straying from his duties and going on a power trip with the mortals.
  • It probably has to do with where you kill him. The descriptions about him are to the effect of "Alduin cannot be slain in Mundus" or something similier. But you're not in Mundus when you kill him, you're in Sovngarde (presumably somewhere in Aeithrius or Oblivion). Notice Paarthanax and others encouraging you to go after him before he gets back.
    • Actually he's not Akatosh's son. He's Akatosh. And not Akatosh. Alduin is kinda like a split personality of Akatosh that has it's own body and limitations (when you're a god things like this become somewhat trivial) and duties (which it abandoned). So when you kill it, you kill that aspect of Akatosh. The God of Time is kinda completely insane.
    • Depends on where you stand, really. We can fill in the nature of various entities from the lore, but for simplicity's sake, it's usually better to go with what we get told directly instead of extrapolating from in-universe documents.
    • In universe there is a lot of confusion about what Alduin is in Relation to Akatosh, however Alduin himself claims to be Akatosh's first born son (in his fight with the PC) so he's kind of like one of the Ancient Monsters/Heroes in Greek/Titan mythology, born from (and to a degree a representation of said) god, and liable to abuse misunderstandings about their birthright to their advantage (such as some of the old monsters claiming to be more important than they really are. Alternatively he could be like the Hindi gods and heroes (all the gods are parts of the big god Brahma and all the heroes are incarnations of the gods). It's not really made clear because it isn't clear in universe
    • Going with the "Believe what you're told directly over the background document" rule of thumb, it's safe to say that, for all intents and purposes, Alduin and Akatosh are separate beings, as Paarthurnax (who would know better than anyone) states his reason for aiding in Alduin's defeat was Alduin's attempt to "usurp the place of our father, Akatosh" — especially since the background documents are written by writers of unknown veracity, while Paarthurnax is the most reliable source on the matter available.
  • It's important to remember just what Alduin is, and at the same time to remember what you are. Alduin is either an aspect of or a child of Akatosh, and the Dragonborn is the same. You're both aspects of Akatosh and his divine essence. As such, while a mortal might be able to hurt Alduin, and even someone commanding the thu'um might be able to briefly enforce mortality on him, ultimately the only one who can truly neutralize an aspect of Akatosh is another being wielding the same power. The Dragonborn is literally empowered with the same Aedric capacity to strike down Alduin and reassert his place in the grand scheme of things.

The Dragon War timeline

• Having trouble figuring the timeline of original Dragon Wars. So first we have Ysgramor and the Nedic people (ancestors to the Nords and other Men except Redguards) fleeing Atmora to Skyrim - the first men in Tamriel. He was also a survivor of Sarthraal's destruction. Ysgramor's history never mentions him being enslaved by dragons. Quite the opposite, as his tales mention him fighting Mer, especially the Falmer. So then, why is Sarthaal filled with Draugr, who were servants of the Dragons? Frontier, Conquest mentions that there were Nedic immigrants from Atmora long before Ysgramor. Did the Dragon Wars predate Ysgramor, or did it all happen after, since his history makes no mention of Dragons? Skorm Storm-Strider's Journal, written in 1E139 (During King Harald's reign, who was 13th in Ysgramor's line), shows that people were still well aware of the Dragon Cults and the Dragon Wars, though they thought the former extinct. If the Dragon enslavement of men and the Dragon Wars happened after Ysgramor, wtf were dragons doing while men were spreading as far south as Solsteim? Why did they take so long to decide to go "ooh, slaves!"
  • It's mentioned in-game that people emigrated to Tamriel in waves, just like how there were plenty of attempts at colonizing the New World between Columbus and the pilgrims, but those are the biggest ones we hear about. Also, Ysgramor was among the last before Atmora became a frozen wasteland. It says on the page the Dragon Cult were the animalistic theocracy that ruled over Atmora, and when tthey moved over to Tamriel, they became dictators. When Ysgramor and his sons arrived, they established a new city, instead of traveling to Brojumaar (aka Labyrinthian). This could suggest that the Dragon Cult had been in decline when the last Atmoran settlers came over.
  • In-game sources are often intentionally contradictory (see also-the 4 or 5 possible origins of the Night Mother). They call it the First Era for a reason-everything before then happened so long ago that nobody has a clear idea of what happened, just several key points (Alduin's fall, Ysgramor's stand) and several millenia's worth of embellishment and distortion. It's unlikely that Ysgramor was actually in the first wave of immigrants.
  • Also Draugr are not always the result of being dragon's servants, that's just the most widespread one. The Gaulder sons are Draugr and they were from long after the Dragons were not in charge. Ditto Olaf One-Eye.
  • Alduin's wall was carved by Akaviri. The Akaviri war took place in 1E 2703 and ended when they bumped into Reman Cyrodiil. Weren't the dragons long since extinct by then? And if that is the case why build the wall at that point? And how did they even know the details of something that happened so long ago? The wall seems like something that would have been carved as soon as Alduin was killed.
    • The Wall was only carved later, after the Akaviri caught a glimpse of the future through reading an Elder Scroll. The Akaviri Dragonguard knew what had happened because people wrote things down, and the Master who oversaw the construction of the Wall was "unmatched" in draconic lore. According to the Annals of the Dragonguard, the dragons were not extinct by that point either, as the Dragonguard were still hunting some of them down. Atlas of Dragons confirms that at least four dragons had survived into the Second Era.
    • And The Elder Scrolls Adventures: Redguard confirms that at least one dragon survived to the very end of the Second Era (and apparently not being hunted, given that he was working for the then-employer of the Blades).
    • Mirmulnir was noted at being a dragon who never died, having lived peacefully nearby until Alduin's return. It could be possible other dragons survived and were in hiding. However that just raises more questions about how the people of Whiterun denied a Dragon existing despite one living relatively close to them this entire time. Then again, they still thought dragons were fake when the freaking skull of Numinex was mounted in their castle.
    • Mirmulnir, much like Paarthurnax, would have easily just kept out of sight from humans. And the Nords didn't think the dragons were "fake" they just thought that the dragons were extinct thanks to the Akaviri dragon-hunters finishing off the last of their kind.
    • The peoples of Skyrim most certainly didn't believe that the dragons were fake. They were legendary beings, but the presence of their mounds and legends confirmed that they were real. it's just that no dragon had ever been encountered in living memory. We also don't know where Mirmulnir kept his nest in the millennia he was living in hiding. He presumably was hidden deep within the trackless mountains between Falkreath and Whiterun (we know that, in terms of lore, it's a vast stretch of woodland and mountains, as in-universe sources indicate it can take weeks to travel the distance between hold capitals). It can be easy to imagine that few people ever ventured that deep into such desolate, empty places filled with monsters and bears and Divines-know-what-else, and if by chance some random Nord did find him, Mirmulnir likely would have eaten them in moments.
  • According to the book The Dragon War, there were Dragon Cults in Atmora at the time of Ysgramor. The Dragons and Dragon Priests probably rose up along with human settlement in Skyrim. The Dragon Cults didn't enslave all the humans, and not all the dragons were interested in enslaving humans.

Mortal and dragon attacks

• So almost everyone I know who plays this game reports numerous dragon attacks in Morthal. Is there some sort of priority list for where a dragon would attack, and Morthal is high up on it?
  • You'll have to wait until January for an answer to that question, what with the delayed release of the Creation Kit.
  • Morthal, Falkreath, and Riverwood all suffer a lot of dragon attacks, I think because they sit in overlapping random encounter zones; Morthal is one of the few towns I've noted where guards regularly fight frostbite spiders because they randomly appear so close to the town that they aggro at townsfolk, especially the people at the mill. With that in mind, and remembering that dragon spawn rate shoots up as you progress through both the main quest and go up in levels, it shouldn't be any surprise that Morthal gets hit by a higher-than-average number of dragon attacks.
  • The three settlements are part of the main map, whereas Whiterun, Riften, Markath and Windhelm are all new areas, since a loading screen is needed before you go from the main map into them. Random Encounter Rates also go up the longer you spend in the world map instead of in settlements or houses, and since Morthal and the others are not their own "maps" it could result in higher dragon spawn rates.
  • I always figured it was because a) likelihood of a dragon attack increases the further you get from the last one; and b) there's not really any reason to go to Morthal unless the game sends you there. Since you're probably fast traveling from the capitol city of another hold (immune to dragon attack, at least before you complete the main quest) to a spot that's a day or two's journey away in an open map cell, dragons seem to attack there more than other places. If there were any reason to go to Falkreath after you complete the two Daedric quests, I imagine you'd see a lot of attacks there, too.
  • Dragon attacks are, by default, set to occur at a minimum of every three in-game days. Since you're often going to be fast-traveling to places like Morthal, Riverwood, and Falkreath, and the fast travel timer is faster than the it would take to travel overland in game, more time passes when you fast-travel. Thus, when you arrive, there's a good chance you've passed the time limit for a dragon attack. Now, there's multiple random encounter zones outside those towns that will all be ready to fire an encounter, and they will typically spawn in a creature well before you're close enough see them. For normal, ground-based creatures, they'll just sandbox around their spawn point based on their AI. Even if they appeared close to the town, you might ever see them. Dragons, however, have a sandbox AI that makes them fly high up and circle around a wide area. They have a wide aggro radius and are hostile to everything, so naturally if they spawned close to a town, they will become hostile to and attack the population. As a result, towns with random encounter zones close to the town, which includes Falkreath, Morthal, and Riverwood, suffer frequent dragon attacks.

"It is wise not to trust a Dovah...."

• Parthurnax says that it's "wise not to trust a Dovah", so is there any reason why I should accept the word of Odahviig that I won't be dropped for the height of seven thousand metres en route to Skuldafn? Now he says that there's absolutley no alternative, but why not ask Parthurnax to take you? Sure, they might spot him on the way in, but is that any worse than risking a potential skydiving accident?
  • Paarthurnax would be recognized by the dragons and Draugr defending Skuldafn, and him having to defend himself with you on his back would guarantee you a skydiving incident. Furthermore, even if Odahviig is not on the level, its still in his interest to help you, so that hopefully you and Alduin may kill one another. Lastly, you are sitting on Odahviig's neck with a sword/axe/hammer/spell at your fingertips. If he decided to betray you... while there's no guarantee you couldn't behead him before he managed to throw you off.
  • When he was talking about 'trust,' it was in the context of a discussion over a dragon's nature: an inherent drive to dominate. Odahviig had already acknowledged you as possibly superior to Alduin, and the fact that dragon hierarchy is based on the strength of their Thu'um, that meant you might be his next boss, but Alduin had run away before it could be confirmed. Dragons cannot (by Paarthurnax's words) be trusted to resist their Lawful Evil nature, but if they say that they're going to do something, they're going to do it. Odahviig even says that dragons may not always tell the whole truth, but they do not lie.

Dragonrend's words

• If the Dragons have no concept for Mortal, Finite & Temporary (As Paarthunax implies), then why do they have words for all three concepts? Especially if the concepts are such complete brown notes, why have words for them if said words will be harmful to them? In fact, how can dragons not have a concept of finite and temporary? They are finite in size and power, and they experience many temporary things (like being set on fire when they use their thu'ums on one another to greet each other, the fire is temporary). Why would the concept bother them at all?
  • It's not so much that they don't understand those concepts (since they can definitely grasp the idea of mortal beings and temporary things) as they don't understand how those concepts could ever apply to them, specifically. A dragon is a being outside of time that doesn't get born, live or die so much as exist indefinitely; they're at least partially divine or primordial. They're naturally immortal, infinite and eternal. With that in mind, remember that Shouts literally create whatever word it is that you speak. When you Shout Dragonrend at a dragon, you are telling it to be Mortal, Finite and Temporary when by the laws of the universe it can't and still exist; it faceplants from confusion and despair in much the way you would if something successfully, completely convinced you that you don't exist. It's corrected when you take a moment to recall all evidence that you do indeed exist, but during that moment you're vulnerable. And the same goes for dragons convinced that they're mortal. It's a sort of existential horror that only applies to them.
    • Remember that the very first dragon you fight and kill will scream "Dovahkiin nii!" when you slay it. The mere notion of actually dying and no longer being immortal utterly terrifies dragons.
    • Being afraid of dying is unique to dragons? Since when? Pretty sure if I were about to kill you, you might feel the urge to scream a Big "NO!" too. Kind of flimsy evidence.
    • The difference is that for mortals, death is part of the natural order. For dragons, it's not. It shouldn't even be physically possible for them to die.
  • Yeah. Those words already existed in the Draconic tongue, and the humans had the idea to turn them against the dragons by empowering them into a Thu'um. A dragon could never even conceive of doing something like that, because they can't grasp the idea of being mortal themselves or that mortality could hold some sort of power. Which is probably why a dragon also can't use the Dragonrend Shout themselves - a mortal would have to give them the knowledge, not another a dragon, and even the idea could potentially cripple them.
    • It's deeper than that. When you ask the Greybeards to teach you Dragonrend, they tell you they can't, because "to learn a Thu'um is to take it in to your being" or something along those lines, and they won't be a part of the "hatred". If a dragon managed to learn the shout, they would become mortal, finite, and temporary. It's suicide.
  • This very wiki has a page dedicated to Fridge Horrors of real life, including the comprehension of the universe, your soul and various other things. For most people, first time reading through all those and understanding what it means to exist in this universe is utterly terrifying. Like Dragonrend, those are conveyed in our own words with their own meanings that we understand, but to actually comprehend the concept it is what's terrifying. The dragons are feeling something similar, except each time you use Dragonrend, it's like they're experiencing it for the first time again.
    • Exactly. The way I would analogize it is that dragons understand mortality in the same way that someone who's always been wealthy understand poverty. They know poor people exist; they may have even met some. They may have gone "slumming" or pretended to be homeless for a time - but there's a significant difference between doing that, knowing you can end the simulation of poverty at any time, and actually being poor.
    • Except the dragons understand mortality better than humans do, since all of them, except Alduin and Parthunax, have experienced dying. They are being raised from the dead after all. And before someone says "Their spirit wasn't destroyed, only their bodies so they didn't die" I'd point out the same applies to humans who die - their spirit lives on in the afterlife (Sovngarde or whatever form it takes depending on culture). So the analogy above about rich and poor is like a Billionaire born in a rich family who's never experienced running out of money telling hobos what being poor is all about.
    • They know more about death than mortals, but still, not finality/mortality. A dragon corpse still contains the dragon's soul, so it can always be resurrected. 'Normal' death is no more terrifying or incomprehensible than sleep for a dragon. Once a mortal dies, their soul leaves their body. Mortal death is final, there's no coming back to Nirn and reclaiming your body. If a mortal is resurrected, only their body is raised, but their spirit is still in the afterlife. So for a dragon, being mortal (or being about to lose your soul) is about as terrifying as death to humans, except they have never even thought about the possibility until they are confronted with the inevitable. And in Skyrim, people even have a rather accurate idea of what is after death, while dragons definitely don't.
    • I was under the impression that each word of a shout represents the true perfect definition of that thing, every single quality. By learning the voice, the Grey Beards are learning the very concepts of reality in the most exact way, allowing them to use the shouts. By absorbing souls, the Dragonborn skips the learning by using the knowledge and understanding of the dragon soul. All of this is why your shouts get more powerful when you contemplate on what the words mean. Dragons can think of finite, age, mortality, etc. But to be forced to truly understand the words. It is incomprehensible. "Mortality" means thousands of things, and you're forcing a creature that nearly can't ever understand mortality to have the true existance of that concept into their very minds. No wonder the Greybeards are against it; you're effectively launching an eldritch abomination at dragons.
  • There is a fundamental difference between simply having the words in the Dragon language and speaking them as part of a Thu'um. Each word of the Thu'um is absorbed fully into your being. It becomes a part of who and what you are, and thus allows you to Shout it back to bend reality to your will. As Aedric souls connected to Akatosh himself, dragons by their fundamental nature cannot be mortal, temporary, or finite. They can technically die, although for an Aedra, death is a.... fluid state, more akin to being comatose than truly dead like a mortal body would be. So while they might be able to understand concepts like mortality and finite existences, the concepts themselves are still are utterly alien to their Aedric souls, especially Aedric souls birthed from Akatosh. A dragon would thus never be able to learn Dragonrend, despite being able to speak it's words. Mortals, and the Dragonborn, can learn those words because while the Dragonborn has the soul of a dragon, they live and breathe and will one day die as a mortal, and thus their soul can comprehend the concepts of Dragonrend, and thus can take that Shout into them without being broken by it.
  • Another factor to remember about Dragonrend is that it's not just the ideas of mortal, temporary, and finite, but those concepts bent by mortal hatred toward dragons in order to hurt them. By the nature of the Shout's inherent mortal hatred for dragons, it cannot be grasped or used by a dragon. The player Dragonborn cannot even grasp Dragonrend without personally traveling back in time to witness it being used by those who hated dragons.

No one saw Alduin appraching

• How the hell did NO ONE see Alduin coming? Dude is huge and Helgen is a pretty large town, someone HAD to have seen him.
  • He flew over a mountaintop into the valley where Helgen was located. Anyone on the other side of the ridge wouldn't have been wouldn't be able to outpace a rapidly flying dragon to warn others, so of course he'd surprise everyone there.
  • Alduin my be huge but humans aren't hardwired to look up for threats. He's also fast, and by the time anyone would hve seen him and started to issue a warning, he would have already attacked Helgen. Not to mention everyone is going to either be watching the execution or watching the roads or woods for Stormcloak rescue parties. No one's going to be looking up for a dragon.
  • To underline the above: remember that before Alduin shows up, everyone knows that dragons are long extinct. No one has any reason whatsoever to expect an attack from the skies.
    • Alvor says that he saw something fly by, and even says it looked like a dragon, but didn't believe it until you confirmed it, as Dragons were thought to have been a myth until now.

Could Alduin attack Oblivion?

• Alduin was obviously a threat to Mundus, and his rampage in Sovngarde made it clear Aetherius was also under threat by him. But would he have chowed on the Planes of Oblivion as well, or would those have been relatively safe refuges from his wrath?
  • Presumably he doesn't want to pick a fight with a divine enemy. He likely picks Sovngarde because it was Shor/Lorkan's realm, and Shor/Lorkan is dead/in no shape to fight a demigod. Each realm of Oblivion, however, is ruled by a very much alive daedric prince who's all too willing to get their hands dirty in direct combat. Mehrunes Dagon put up a damn good fight against the Avatar of Akatosh at the end of the Oblivion Crisis, and in the Isles, Sheogorath demonstrated the ability to throw the planet at people (that's what he's doing when he teleports you, you're not falling). Alduin wants no part of a fight with these guys.
    • This is completely off topic, but... throwing a friggin' planet at you? That's got to be the most badass trick this troper has ever seen, and he's seen quite a few.
    • He tried to throw a moon at Vivec (god and city); it didn't work. (Until Vivec ran out of power for his "pause" spell, and then it suddenly did.)
  • Alduin is also related to Akatosh, an Aedric spirit. Presumably it is easier for him to access Sorvngarde (In Aetherius) than any plane of Oblivion.
  • Alduin is a derivative of Akatosh just as Talos is the derivative of Shor who is in turn the derivative of Lorkhan. It's probably far easier for him to enter a plane ultimately Aedric in nature (insofar as Lorkhan status as the demiurge who created Mundus would make him such, given the fact he is literally the embodiment of what remains of Padomay) than one of Oblivion. All the same, I highly doubt that any of the Daedric princes could fight him, as one of Akatosh's avatars managed to defeat Mehrunes Dagon in his full form and Alduin is likely even stronger than that. Add to that also that his destiny states that only a Dragonborn can touch him.
  • According to some of the more obscure, Kirkbride-written text, it looks like yes, Alduin could invade and take on an entire Daedric realm by his lonesome, although back when he was actually doing his job as the World Eater instead of ruling Nirn like a scaly Hitler. Apparently he was able to take on and defeat a Daedric Prince (IIRC, Dagon himself).

Why don't dragons use a greater variety of shouts?

• For the most part, it's fire breath, frost breath, and I'm decently sure I've seen animal aliegance once, not counting Alduin's mist and meteor shouts. Why no storm call, elemental fury, marked for death, slow time, or everybody's favorite, unrelenting force?
  • It's most likely just gameplay balancing. Fighting dragons that can call bolts of electric death down upon you, attack you faster than you can react, negate your armor and health bonuses, or effortlessly blast you off the side of a mountain for a one-hit kill would be a bitch. In-universe, its sort of implied that the more powerful shouts require a more powerful dragon to perform, hence why only Alduin can call down meteoric destruction or resurrect his fallen kin. This also ties in with why dragons such as Odahviing respect the Dragonborn—being able to call upon a lightning storm isn't just impressive to mortals, it's impressive to dragons themselves. Of course, if you really want to tangle with Shout-wielding dragons, there are probably numerous mods that allow for this.
    • OP here. I play on the console so mods are unfortunately out of my reach. And while I get the reasoning and figured that was probably part of it, my mileage is going to vary. One of the most common complaints about the game is that dragons are too easy to take down. Adding a greater variety of shouts would make for a more interesting challenge, show a greater level of intelligence, and do more to show that their dragons aren't just big fire and frost breathing lizards, they're reality warpers who alter existence by yelling at it very loudly.
    • Some of the dragons fight pretty smart. They'll fly and strafe with breath weapons and only land in hard to reach places. Some of these shouts would actually make these dragons insurmountable. If they could slow time, freeze you would ice form, become ethereal long enough to get away, or bend your will, you'd be screwed.
  • Dragons who have access to all the Shouts would be monstrous opponents. While it was available, the Dragon Combat Overhaul mod was a nightmarishly difficult mod because the dragons in it used a variety of Shouts to utterly wreck you, on top of a bunch of other elements that made them hard to fight. Problem was, a lot of people felt that this made them too hard to kill, and greatly reduced the fun in fighting them. Bethesda prevented the dragons from having a wide variety of Shouts because that would make them impossible to defeat and they wanted the gameplay to remain fun without being frustrated.
  • From an in-lore perspective, it could be that most Dov simply haven't ever felt the need to broaden their horizons beyond the basics. Think of it as the equivalent of a person learning how to swing a sword REALLY hard, but that's all. They've never needed to learn anything more advanced, because that one technique has worked.
  • Remember that dragons wholly equate fighting and debating. Presumably they'll favor those Shouts which the dragon in question considers to pose the soundest argument, and the thu'um of frost and fire constitute especially incisive statements as well as potent weapons.

Brelas and infiltrating the Embassy

• Wait....so if you cause a distraction at the Thalmor party using Brelas (The Servant) and the merchant Nord, she is taken down to the dungeon. But when you get down there shes there BEFORE you. Did the guards drag her down there while ignoring the cries of me slaughtering the other guards?
  • Screams are likely a common occurrence in Thalmor facilities. Perhaps the guards simply figured someone else was detained. It's not like they anticipated anyone attacking the place. After all, who would honestly be that stupid? Alternatively, the walls are really thick and sound-proofed or they brought her down later, but didn't notice you engaging the other guards.
    • GREAT explanation, I applaud you for your hard work.
  • The prison is located in Elenwen's Solar, which is a separate building. You get taken into the kitchen and recover your gear, likely take a few minutes to get it loaded and sorted out, and then move into the back areas of the main embassy building. The guards would have taken her outside and into the second building during that time.
  • Wouldn't you?

Why is Alduin necessary?

• So if dragons are immortal in this game and can only really be killed by another dragon, why is Alduin required to bring them back to life?
  • Their bodies can be destroyed by non-dragons, and they can't just jump to another or rebuild them on their own, they need Alduin for that.
  • Ok, fair enough. But then what is the deal with Skeletal Dragons? The one in Labyrinthian acts just like regular dragon, but has no soul to absorb.
  • That one wasn't a real dragon, per se, but a reanimated skeleton along the same lines as the... well, skeletons you often encounter in dungeons. It was probably brought back to life by Morokei to guard his resting place.

The Dragonborn's soul

• If the player has the soul of a Dragon in a mortal body, does this mean that they were a Dragon once? And does it also mean that somewhere out there is a pile of Dragon Bones that Alduin would be unable to resurrect as the soul has already been resurrected as you?
  • It's not made clear if dragons can reproduce, but I'd guess that every time a dragon is born/created it gets a fresh, never-been-used soul. Same would go for the Dragonborn.
  • Dragons do not reproduce. Dragons simply are. The first Dragonborn were gifted with the souls of dragons by the gods, and while the Septim line were consistently Dragonborn due to divine blessing, most Dragonborn throughout time simply were gifted the dragonblood by the gods. In other words, the Dovahkiin was gifted his/her abilities by Akatosh himself.

Dragonborn children

• I know you never get to reproduce in the game, but what would happen if the Dragonborn were to have kids? Is being Dragonborn hereditary like it was for the Septims? Would the DB's kids be Dragonborn/have "dragonblood" as well?
  • In-game books discussing things like this are lovely, aren't they? Anyway, it's not quite hereditary, being a blessing of Akatosh, so there's no guarantee that the Dragonborn's children will be Dragonborn, especially with his prophetic status as "the last Dragonborn". The Septims were a special case, as Akatosh blessed the ruling house with Dragonblood status because of his covenant with Allesia, but considering that the last Septims weren't even tangentially related to Tiber, it's obvious genetics have little to do with it.

Dargonborn lineage

• It's possible this is answered in an in-game book that I haven't read, but if I understand correctly, Tiber Septim was Dragonborn and, while being Dragonborn isn't normally hereditary, a special exception was made for the Septim line, which is why it's such a major plot point in Oblivion that Martin be found and assume the throne: he was the only one left with the "dragonblood." Does that mean that the Dovahkiin now could go assume the Imperial throne if (s)he wished? Since (s)he possesses the same type of soul that Tiber Septim did, could (s)he go down to the Imperial City, wear the Amulet of Kings, and light the dragon fires? Politically there may be obstacles, but just by being Dragonborn (s)he has as much right to rule the Empire as Martin did (being an illegitimate child brought up to be a priest). Plus, (s)he's already got the Blades' protection. On a related note, does possessing "dragonblood" as the Septim line did mean that they could also learn Shouts and absorb dragon souls (assuming there were any dragons around, that is)?
  • The Amulet of Kings is shattered (It broke when Martin used it to become an avatar of Akatosh), so that part is a no. Outside of Tiber Septim himself, if the Septims were "Dragonborn" or only he was is really a matter of debate. For one, If you pay attention to the history of the Empire, you'll find most of the Septims aren't even Tiber's direct descendants (See the family tree). While certain books, like The Book of the Dragonborn, which is the first book you are likely to meet in game declares all Septims to be Dragonborn. Also, the events of Oblivion have also made the Dragonfire obsolete. Point is, the Player has no stronger claim to the throne than anyone else really.
  • Before Martin sacrificed himself, lineage meant absolutely nothing as to whether or not someone was Dragonborn, and being Dragonborn was entirely irrelevant to whether or not you had any claim to the Ruby Throne. What mattered was if you had the power to both take control of the Ruby Throne and could then claim the Amulet of Kings and light the Dragonfires. If you could do that, you were automatically Dragonborn and were also the Emperor, as that was the covenant Alessia formed with Akatosh. Since there is no longer an Amulet of Kings and the Dragonfires are permanently lit, no one else has a claim to the throne beyond right of conquest. Martin's legitimacy was mostly political; anyone else willing to take the Amulet as he did and sacrifice themselves to Akatosh could have done what he did in the end.

What does it mean to have the "soul" of a Dragon?

• So can someone explain to me what Dragonborn, "soul of the dragon" actually means? Is Dovakiin half dragon half human? A dragon in his former life who is now taking the form of a human? I mean the only parallel I can really attach myself to is Jesus, who was half God half Man according to the Bible. What is the player character supposed to be?
  • Human/Elf/Whatever body with a Dragon Soul in it rather than a human/elf/whatever soul.
    • Sorry about not including other races, I was just assuming canonically the Dragonborn was human (Nord specifically) because the advertisements show him that way. Anyway how is that possible? How can you be human but have the soul of something you are not? How can the Dragonborn anymore have the soul of a dragon than you or I can have the soul of a dog or a cat? At least the half Dragon half Human hypothesis explains why he is human as well as a dragon, you know just like Jesus WAS human but he WAS also God (according to the Bible at least). Magic is just weird?
    • Coz Akatosh made it so, literally. Akatosh just created a dude with a dragon soul to kill Dragons. Akatosh is a god to really it's no more complex than that. The Dragonborn isn't "Half Dragon". It's just that his soul is that of a dragon.
  • It's a similar parallel to the whole Jesus myth. The Dragonborn has the soul of a dragon, but the body of a man. It doesn't get any more complex than that.
    • The Jesus mythology is slightly more complex than just the soul of God in a human body. Christian thinking teaches that Jesus was both human and God, that there was a duality in his spirit that while he was God with all the appropriate powers, personality and will, he also had human tendencies and temptations that he was faced with. Effectively speaking Jesus had two souls, that of a man and of God. So the Dragonborn has the soul of a dragon in a human body with no duality? I don't know, it's not like we know what it's like to have a complex and higher power inhabiting a weaker form so it's not like we can comment on it personally, but it just seems like it should be more complex than that. I'll just go with what the story tells me, maybe I'm just over-thinking this.
  • It's all kind of complicated, and when you get down to the specifics it kind of ties into the creation myth behind the setting (the "Monomyth" as it is referred to in-universe). I'm not going to go into the real details, but the short version is that there are "Aedric" entities, which are the sort-of immortal, divine entities that were involved in the creation of Nirn/Mundus. The dragons are such beings, possessing immortal, Aedric souls, created by Akatosh to serve him, etc. They don't go to the Aetherium when they die, they just get revived. Mortal souls travel to the Aetherium when they die (unless they're soultrapped, then you're going to the Soul Cairn, but that's only vaguely relevant). Mortals are essentially the descendants of Aedra who were getting weak through their association with Nirn and began procreating and creating mortals to continue their existence (which is where the whole thing with the Thalmor and their beliefs in ascension to godhood etc. by destroying Nirn come from). Dragons are Aedra, powerful, divine, immortal, yadda yadda, created by Akatosh. The important thing here is that dragon souls have their own particular, uh, I guess composition, or structure, or whatever the fuck it is that defines the difference between "dragon" soul and "goes good with ketchup" soul. Your soul is not a "goes good with ketchup" soul. You look like a mortal, had mortal parents, etc. but the metaphysical part of you that lives on after death is an Aedra soul. So the closest real analogue I would define it as, if we're going to go with Christian metaphysical hierarchy, is that you're basically an angel with a mortal body. You've got the powers of an angel, but they're crammed down into the tiny fleshsack body which nonetheless has the freedom to roam around Nirn doing what needs to be done, by Akatosh's will, etc, etc, etc. Of course, this is just a very rough analgue, because Mundus/Nirn is different from the real world (see above re: how console commands are a power you can use in-universe. Crazy guy, that Vivec).
    • Basically, ever watch Supernatural? You're Castiel.
• Simple answer: Dragons can devour the souls of their enemies, which prevents them from being resurrected (the fact that dragons can be resurrected infinitely is a major plot point). Thus, the Dragonborn is the only person capable of permanently killing dragons.
• You see, when a giant firebreathing lizard and a bipedal sentient cat love each other VERY much....
• It's important to note that there isn't that much of a difference between a mortal's soul and the soul of a dragon, at least when you get down to the specifics (the experiences and knowledge of a dragon soul are much different than those of a mortal soul, of course, which is why dragon souls are useful for a Dragonborn). At the core, every soul of every sapient mortal on Nirn is Aedric, because every being who lives on Nirn has the soul of one of the Aedric entities that gave of themselves to help build Nirn. The "size" of a soul has less to do with sapience, however, and more to do with the animating force driving that entity. Animals and sub-sapient life generally have "white" souls, or the animus of life driving their bodies, while most sapient life forms have "black" souls, which includes the elements of an Aedric spirit that helped create Nirn. That said, certain Aedric spirits with particular inclinations and perceptions tend to incarnate as certain mortal subsets; for example, the Aedric entities who were rather cross that Lorkhan created Nirn and stuck them in this limited form generally incarnate as elves, while the Aedric entities that think that being mortal is awesome and Lorkhan was the best friend for creating Nirn usually incarnate as men. A certain subset of Aedric spirits thus would have incarnated as dragons: spirits close to or loyal to Akatosh, perhaps. Ultimately, a mortal's soul and a dragon's soul are very similar in most respects, it's just that the Aedric spirits that would incarnate as dragons (with their associated predispositions) did so in dragon bodies, with the associated physical characteristics of dragons, which in turn affected the experiences and knowledge inherent to the dragon, which is why dragon souls have different properties compared with those of mortals.

The Dragonborn's iconic outfit

• What is the obsession with the iron armor and helmet on the Dragonborn in advertisements? I mean it looks cool and all but it isn't even that durable in the in-game stats. I mean I can understand that being his beginning armor but near the end of the game it would be mostly inadequate.
  • Not really, with Smithing you can make any armor reach max damage resistance. Eitherway, if you wonder why the character in publicity wears this armor, you answered your own question: it looks cool. That's all that matters for a publicity.
  • Also, it's studded armor and an iron helmet, boot and gauntlets, not all iron armor.
    • To be perfectly fair I never really got into Smithing, took too much time to level up. Well I guess I have a reason to level it up now. I guess Dragonborn doesn't have much need for sophisticated armor because of his magical and physical ability?
  • It's just an advertisement. They chose that armor specifically because it looks cool and is fitting for the setting. Same reason its always a male Nord in the ads. It's not like marketing departments usually take the time to learn what would be best in terms of in-game stats to slap on a poster. We're lucky they didn't just make up some cool-looking, unobtainable equipment like so many other series.
  • The "face" of Oblivion was some guy in (iron) Imperial Legion armor. Low-level armor is both more likely to be seen by starting characters, and less bizarre-looking (put someone in full Daedric plate on the cover of either game, and you'd probably figure they were the bad guy).
  • Technically, any armor is capable of being "end game" armor thanks to the Smithing skill. Get your Smithing and respective armor skills up, and your collective armor rating will exceed 567 total, which is the game's "cap" on damage reduction. Once you're past that point, any additional armor rating is just to make you feel warmer and fuzzier. So yeah, the Dragonborn's armor in the promotional materials can be some ultra-smithed, legendary-rated, hyper-enchanted suit of armor worn by a superbly experienced Dragonborn master at that particular armor type.
  • It's because it may well be some of the first armor you wear in the game.

Dragonborn immortality

• So if dragons are immortal would the Dragonborn be revived if he died? Would he need a higher power to help bring him back?
  • He probably would, seeing as normal Dragons need Alduin to do it.
  • Maybe? We don't really know if a dragon's body has any special properties to match its soul. Even if it doesn't, it'd still take something of Alduin's power to shout a dragonborn back to life.
  • It is possible that a Dragonborn's soul could be preserved and brought back. The Amulet of Kings was essentially a Soul Jar holding the souls of every Emperor from Alessia to Martin, and when broken it unleashed them to create the Avatar of Akatosh. Alduin could theoretically do it, considering he's the living Reset Button of Nirn.

How was the Dragonborn raised?

• He just grew up never realizing once that he was special? No Divine Entity or mortal that knew of the prophecy found him and told his parents? It just seems strange that he lived what I would imagine was a fairly normal life (he doesn't seem to have any difficulty fighting Imperial Soldiers/Stormcloaks in the very beginning of the game so he obviously has fighting skill and has a basic knowledge of magic) before all of this and then all of a sudden he takes up the mantle of Dragonborn and kicks serious ass.
  • No, the Dragonborn never knew about their unique nature. The only way anybody would know is if he's going dragonsoul snackin', and there were no dragons prior to the game beginning. Only Akatosh would know before then, and the divines aren't known to be particularly chatty (except in Morrowind, but even then Maybe Magic, Maybe Mundane). As it stands, the PC was just a slightly-above-average fighter/mage/thief guy of indeterminate background until he met Mirmulnir.

Are there dragon attacks all over Tamriel?

• They don't mention attacks in Cyrodiil or Morrowind, yet Alduin is called The World Eater, so shouldn't be dragons be attacking across Nirn?
  • There's no indications that dragons are attacking elsewhere. Remember that you pretty much interrupt Alduin during the initial phases of his plan (i.e. build a huge dragon army by resurrecting them) so the later stages of the plan, which would include chomping down on the whole of Nirn, would come later. Dragons might have crossed borders into other parts of Tamriel, but most of them seem to keep to Skyrim itself, either because they prefer Skyrim, or because Alduin is keeping his soldiers in Skyrim to consolidate his power before moving further afield.
  • Dragon corpses are also much more common in skyrim then in the rest of Tamriel. Plus, wizards are much more common outside Skyrim and Alduin is based out of Skyrim. The lesser amount of dragons in other regions would be taken down much quicker, and resurrection would take quite a while, since Alduin would have to fly all the way to another region, which would take several days, even at the speed of a dragon. He may as well not have bothered at all. Other dragons are unlikely to leave skyrim as well for that reason, as it would mean flying away from mister resurrection. They just spent a few thousand years in the ground, I doubt they want to go back, even if its only temporary. On the other hand, following the defeat of Alduin by the dragonborn, it's pretty possible that the dragons fled skyrim en masse. After all, staying in the same region as a hungry dragonborn is not a good idea.
  • Well, Solstheim is officially part of Morrowind and the Dragonborn can get attacked by Dragons there, though it was historically Skyrim's before Red Year. It also seems to have a geographically-distinct type of Dragon (the Serpentine) as well which respawns at Solstheim's only dragon lair of Saering's Watch. So it appears that there are indeed Dragon incursions into the other provinces, if only by their proximity to and historical association with Skyrim.
  • Fridge Brilliance, actually. Alduin gains power by feeding on souls, but apparently limits that to souls from Shor's realm, Sovngarde. (Probably due to his connection to Akatosh, he can't/won't challenge him in Aetherius, where most souls go, but that doesn't extend to Akatosh's enemy, Shor). So who goes to Sovngarde? Nords. Where are you going to be able to kill the most Nords and thus get the most souls in Sovngarde to recharge your power? Skyrim.
    • Shor isn't Akatosh's enemy, he was Auri-El's. While Akatosh and Auri-El, along with Alduin, are part of the same oversoul (known as "Aka-Tusk" to the Nords, and "Borhamu" to the dragons), they are very distinct personalities from one another. Akatosh thought that Lorkhan's idea to create Mundus was pretty much the greatest idea ever, while Auri-El was the one who was duped and deceived by him and took his revenge. Basically, Akatosh is an aspect of the time god that was spliced with aspects of Shor when he was split from Auri-El (hence why he actually liked Lorkhan's plan and why he went insane when Auri-El and Trinimac killed Lorkhan).
  • It is possible that dragons may start showing up elsewhere, even after Alduin was defeated. If another dragon knows the Shout to resurrect a dragon, then they could also bring back their comrades. Parthurnaax might be willing to resurrect dragons that he thinks would be receptive to the Way of the Voice.

Dragon Teeth

• As can be seen in dragon skulls (especially in the loading screens), dragons' teeth (mostly in their mandible) curve forward, instead of backward or straight up like other predators. Is there any biological or aedric reason for this to make sense?
  • Maybe their teeth can flex in and out like a great white shark.
    • Not likely; the contours of the jawline show where the tooth roots are, and they're embedded deep into bone.
  • Not being normal, biological animals means they may not have any need for "food" as we know it. The teeth, instead of being for practical eating purposes, are there simply to look terrifying.
  • Maybe they make for a better biting attack? Or, like it was said above, maybe even timeless beasts from beyond the void are bound by Rule of Cool
  • Inward-curving teeth are mostly intended to hook and pull in prey to keep them from escaping, and work by crushing and tearing. While the dragons' forward-pointing teeth look that way when the jaw is open, when they come together while the jaw is closing, the teeth appear to have a very close contact point that is nearly exactly in line with each other. When a dragon snaps it's maw shut, instead of you being trapped between the teeth and crushed and cut by tearing action, you're instead being caught between two spikes slamming together on the same rough point.
  • Sharp teeth that protrude forward mostly occur in predators that pry shellfish off of rocky surfaces, like the Atlantic wolffish. Maybe dragons use them to pry the armor off enemies, or to tear gemstones out of cliffsides?

Aludin and You

• OK, I may be getting this mixed up, but if Alduin is destined to devour the world and usher in a new Kalpa, then why are you, the Dragonborn, there to prevent him from doing what might very well be his job? Was the Dragonborn thing just so the non-dragon people could have a fighting chance against him?
  • The problem is that Alduin is neglecting his duties. Alduin's sole purpose is to destroy the world at the proper time. However, Alduin became arrogant with his power and, back in the Merethic Era, became an oppressive dictator. Now in the Fourth Era, Alduin's trying to destroy the world like he's supposed to, except now the problem is that it's not even the proper time for the world to end. The Dragonborn is basically Akatosh's way of telling his unruly son to stop goofing around and do his chores.
  • Some of the Kirkbride commentary suggests that Akatosh and the other Divines also, well, kinda like how this particular kalpa turned out and want to keep it around for a while. So they're arranging for Alduin to go on a diet until they get tired of it, or the Thalmor finish tearing down the Towers, whichever comes first.

The Main Quest

Lokir surprised to see Ulfric

• On the topic of the opening scene: why is Lokir the horse-thief so startled to discover that he's riding in a cart with Ulfric Stormcloak? Ralof mentions that the ambush was two days ago. Ulfric may be gagged, but no one else is, and the capture of such a key figure is the sort of thing that tends to come up in conversation. You'd think Lokir would have overheard someone mention it by now - whether one of the Stormcloaks, or simply the Imperial soldiers celebrating that they've caught the leader of the rebellion.
  • The capture would have prompted a break out attempt, so the guards would have been given very strict orders to not discuss anything in case a spy were around, with very severe consequences were they to break this order, especially around the prisoners. As for why none of the prisoners talked about it would be that they would have been kept quiet too, likely not even allowed to talk, just in case they were trying to get a message out to a spy, the reason that you were allowed to talk by the time the game starts is because the guard figures they're too close to Helgen for it to matter anymore. A captured rebellion leader does not prompt celebrating, it prompts exceptionally tight security and secrecy for everyone from the generals to the cooks until he's dead, unless he's cold and buried, he's still a threat and any information about his capture is too.

Whiterun's meager response to a dragon attack

• Why does a dragon attack on Whiterun, the first in dozens of years, only elicit a response of a few men, a stranger, and Irileth?
  • I thought the others were too afraid to act because, well, it's a dragon.
  • If you paid attention during the dialogue, you would have heard that they were being dispatched to investigate the dragon report, not sally forth to slay a beast that they had confirmed was present. Besides, sending the entire garrison out to the watchtower will leave the rest of the city unprotected, which is just begging for a creature with greater mobility and the ability to fly to swoop in and start snacking on the citizenry. Better to send a detachment to investigate and confirm the dragon's presence and leave the rest to protect the city. Besides, Balgruuf is sending Irileth, the most capable warrior in Whiterun and his personal housecarl, to investigate, which is a hefty investment of personal resources.
  • It's also simply a case of Gameplay and Story Segregation. This is the game where about 20 guys constitutes a city sacking army because of engine limitations. 5 guys is a significant investigation force.
  • Also makes you wonder why the Companions weren't called upon to help fight the dragon, or at least to ready themselves in case they needed to defend the city. Irileth ordering a soldier to inform them would be sufficient.
    • The Companions do not answer to Balgruuf or indeed any authority but their own. Notice during the battle of Whiterun they lock their door and stay inside. They are entirely independant and usually require payment. While I'm sure they'd be happy to go fight a dragon free of charge, for the epic-saga factor if nothing else, as noted above it's only a dragon sighting, not a confirmed dragon. Would you go hire an expensive mercenary force to go look at what might be some guard's overactive imagination?
    • Even then, it would have been nice if they said "Go inform the Companions a dragon may be attacking. If nothing else, they'll want time to prepare to protect their home."
    • They probably did send word to the Companions, as with anyone else in the city.
  • Balgruuf probably didn't send out more men for the same reason why he won't let you trap a dragon in his keep later on in the main questline until the civil war is over or the ceasefire is signed- he doesn't want to do anything that would leave the most strategically and economically advantageous hold wide open for an attack. Plus, it happens at a point in the story where most people are skeptical about dragons even existing unless they saw Alduin themselves. Balgruuf believes the threat could be very real so he sends Irileth, the most capable warrior in Whiterun and his personal housecarl, but sending a large detachment to investigate what at that point is essentially the in-universe equivalent of a Bigfoot sighting while the city's under constant threat of invasion would be a bad idea.

Crossing the border

• So you start the game waiting to be beheaded because you tried to cross the border? Has anyone actually approached the border? The gate is wide open and the only thing that's stopping you is the game engine. No guards patrolling to ask you what you're up to. No one to even see that you even went near it.
  • You are not being executed simply for trying to cross the border, but because you were trying to cross the border in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's stated in the game's intro that you were caught in the crossfire between the Imperials and Stormcloaks as the former ambushed the latter. You being unknown to the Imperials, they naturally assume you're with their foes, and take you in. If you really need to point fingers, though, you can blame that one Imperial captain for seemingly ordering your death out of spite.
    • What Ralof is essentially saying in the introductory lines of the game is basically "you (the player) weren't with us, you just walked in on us and got mistaken for the enemy, just like the horse thief," which is confirmed by Lokir the horse thief saying "You and me, we shouldn't be here - it's these Stormcloaks the Empire wants." Why Lokir is on the list and you're not is never made clear; it's probably that Lokir has committed more crimes than that single horse theft.
    • It's worth noting that IRL horse theft was in fact a capital crime before automobiles were invented (at least in the United States, dunno about other countries).
    • Or Lokir was dumb enough to steal a horse that belongs to the Legion. Even if the Imperials would leave it up to the local Jarl to deal with some farmer's plowhorse getting pinched, they'll certainly show no leniency for the theft of military assets.
  • There's more than one way to cross the border in Skyrim. And regardless, the crime wasn't "you crossed the border, NOW DIE!" You were simply in the wrong place and got lumped in with the Stormcloaks, just like the horse thief, and they were rushing the execution because the Empire wanted Ulfric dead quickly in a public venue.

Esbern and Paarthurnax

• So, let me get this straight...What is Esbern's problem with Paarthunax? He hears Paarthunax's name and immediately tells Dovahkiin to kill him. This, despite Paarthunax telling Dovahkiin that he's spent thousands of years redeeming himself and actively helps you in defeating his former master!
  • He's a dragon. Dragons = evil. Its ingrained in their nature. The notion of a dragon not being evil is like a tiger being a vegetarian.
  • Paarthurnax himself says that Esbern is wise not to trust him, and that he himself would not trust another dragon. The "will to power" is part of their very nature. They have something akin to a physical urge to dominate others. Paarthurnax overcame his urge through millennia of meditation, but he understands why Esbern doesn't believe it. Besides, Esbern apparently has a very rigid and uncompromising view of justice. He believes that if you commit a crime you must recieve adequate punishment, no matter what, and Paarthurnax has committed countless unspeakable crimes in his time.
    • On the contrary: Parthurnax didn't overcome the urge in the slightest. He states that, even now, he has to will it into submission on a daily basis. He isn't trying to break a habit from his upbringing: he's continually willing himself to act in spite of what his entire nature screams for him to do.
    • He wills himself not to do what he primally wants to do. Sounds like overcoming to me.
    • Only problem is that adequate punishment and justice are all in Esbern's perspective.
  • It's most likely a mistake to assume that Paarthurnax is completely trustworthy. Yes, he does prove to be a valuable ally until Alduin has been defeated and does act in a grandfatherly manner, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have his own agenda. The time he invested in tending to the Greybeards and that he claims to have been meditating do lend credence to his claims, until you remember that he's an immortal entity and fully capable of investing that amount of time into a plan if necessary. He may want Alduin gone as much as anyone, but what comes after that is what should concern you. After all, all those remaining dragons are going to need a leader...
    • As long as he can teach some of them the way of the voice then thats good for everyone, otherwise you'll be implementing the Final Solution just in case. (He isn't any more powerful than other dragons vs. Alduin who can feed off the dead)
  • The problem I had with the whole Paarthurnax must die thing from the Blades is a certain level of hypocrisy I detected from them. Paarthurnax should die, but, like, Odahviing gets away scott-free? Odahviing only gives you the ability to summon him via Shouts after you a) trap him in Whiterun, leaving him at your mercy (and he gets out of that by claiming he has doubts in Alduin's leadership and agrees to take you to Skuldafn), and then b) kill his current boss. I mean, sure, he gets you to Skuldafn, but then his attitude appears to be one of waiting and seeing who ends up on top, and throwing in with whoever that is. Pretty much everything he does is to save his own skin, yet Delphine and Esbern never take any notice of this, apart from Delphine remarking on the Dragonborn leaving Whiterun on his back, so they know he's around. Odahviing MUST have some crimes under his belt too, especially since he takes over as Alduin's lieutenant after Paarthurnax left, so by Esbern's logic, shouldn't he be killed too? Once that apparent hypocrisy became apparent to me (and Paarthurnax posing that question to me about the nature of good), I really felt I couldn't go through with killing him.
  • I imagine that Odahaviing is tolerated both because of his relatively minor role in the dragon hierarchy (at least compared to Alduin's former second-in-command) and pure utility. Simply put, you need him to continue. Paarthurnax, valuable ally he may be, is not strictly necessary by the point the Blades find out about him. I'm not saying that the Blades are right about Paarthurnax, but they're not entirely wrong about distrusting him. Ultimately, I put supporting either side on the same moral level as supporting either side in the civil war.
  • I would imaging Odahaviing not having a very clean record either, if he was high enough ranked to become the new right hand guy and by his own admission he isn't the passive type. Also only the Rule of Cool is protecting Odahaviing after the main quest technically he probably recently killed a lot of people in unspeakable ways. I would put this as a case of do you want to kill The Atoner just in case? Also the Blades must then be omniscient as to know that he already gave you all you need to save the world.
  • My problem with the quest is that you can't lay down the law with the blades. They aren't there to kill dragons, they're there to protect/serve the Dragonborn. They didn't stop serving every emperor from Tiber to Uriel for not killing Paarthurnax, the hell I'm just gonna standby and let them ditch me. I'm the one giving the orders in this outfit, and until Paarthurnax gives me a reason to kill him, I'm not going to kill him. Now, mind you, I don't expect this course of action to cow them into submission and acceptance, hell, I'd half expect them to draw steel on me then and there. But it would be nice to have the option to put them in their place instead of just ignoring the request and leaving the quest open in the log.
    • For what it's worth, there's a mod for the PC version that lets you do just that.
    • Heck, it wasn't as if Paarthurnax was the only dragon they let the old Septim emperors get away with not slaying - Tiber Septim and successors even had dragons serving them in their campaigns (you get to meet - and kill, what with being a Redguard rebel - one in Redguard). Granted, fitting the pre-Skyrim lore dragons to the dragons of Skyrim is... somewhat confusing.
    • I think you're confusing Skyrim's dragons (Jill), who are essentially lesser aedra, with the Akaviri dragons, who were a mortal beast race, albeit dragons. Still, TES lore is confusing at best so it's hard to attribute what to which.
    • Jills are Akatosh's female draconic servants. They meddle around with Time for him. The message Martin Septim leaves for you at the end of Oblivion was 'written back into time by the Jills' afterwards, not delivered directly.
    • That actually raises an important question; would the Blades know or care about the difference between Jills and Akaviri dragons?
    • Akaviri "Dragons" are actually Vampiric Serpents called Tsaesci (there's also a breed of Tiger Dragons in Akavir called Ka Po' Tun). The Akaviri potentates of Tamriel were Tsaesci. They also founded the Dragonguard that became the Blades under the Reman Emperor. So yes. Since the Tsaesci had their own Dragon hunting force, it seems logical that Akavir had Jills there too.
    • The Akaviri Dragons are not Vampiric Serpents. Every source that references the Tsaesci (2920, Mysterious Akavir, Report: Disaster at Ionith, the Champion of Cyrodiil's encounters with the Akaviri invasion force at Pale Pass) indicate that they are more-or-less human sized. The sources are inconsistent about human they are, but that is about things like legs and scales, rather than being, y'know, giant flying lizards (as for Ka Po' Tun, it is not a breed of dragons, but, insofar as it exists [Mysterious Akavir is... not really all that reliable a source], a state of cat-folk ruled by one of them that became a dragon).
    • The way the dragons in Skyrim work is that they're the long-dead bones of Akaviri dragons(who'd migrated to Tamriel after being driven out by the Tsaesci) that were slain long ago and buried given new life by Alduin infusing their bones with the soul of a Jill. So they're Jills, and at the same time NOT Jills.
    • Why would the Akaviri dragons NOT be Jills? Why would the dragonguard come all the way to Tamriel, desperately seeking a Dragonborn they can mysteriously surrender to (As seen on Alduin's Wall, mentioned by Esbern), if their dragons were not Jills (therefore did not have souls a Dragonborn could suck out)? If the Akaviri had no concept of Jills, they would be rather nonplussed by the Dragonborn Reman Emperors. Plus Akavir is on Mundus, so its not like having Aedric spirits there too is out of the ordinary.
    • What evidence is there that says the dragons in Skyrim are Aedra possessing Akaviri dragons? I've played through the main quest and found nothing to indicate it.
    • The fact that the Akaviri dragons migrated to Tamriel after most of them were killed off by the Tscaesi, who were then, in turn, steadily hunted to extinction by the Blades and the Dragonborn. The dragons in this game are explicitly described as darker versions of Akatosh's "Jill" servants. However, they're not summoned to the world; their souls are simply put into preexisting bones, as seen when you find Alduin reviving dragons at the various Dragon Mounds throughout Skyrim.
    • Explicitly described where? I have seen no mention of jills in-game. Searching it on uesp.net does not give any results. Googling for jill skyrim doesn't give any answers either.
    • Except that the theory of these being spirits possessing Akaviri dragons who were hunted down is shot down by stuff found in game: Several books mention the Dragon Cults originate from Atmora, having come to Skyrim when the humans migrated over. Since its where the Dragon cults and priests come from, it also seems logical that the Dragons must have also come from Atmora, not Akavir. So unless the Akaviri killed all their dragons and made a habit of dumping their corpses on another continent entirely, this theory seems rather far-fetched.
    • The dragon cult and Skyrim dragons came from Atmora. They're Jills. The Akaviri dragons may or may not be Jills. All we have is Esbern's interpretation of Alduin's Wall, in that he says the wall shows the Akaviri coming to Tamriel specifically to find a dragonborn. But Esbern could be wrong, or the wall inaccurate. It was made during Reman II's rule, so he could be embellishing, claiming that his rule was somehow prophecized. If Akaviri dragons aren't Jills, and the Akaviri came to Tamriel to hunt down fleeing Akaviri dragons or just to invade it, then the Blades could've formed out of necessity when the Akaviri encountered Jills for the first time, which would explain why they'd revere dragonborns.
  • Well the Dragons encountered serving the Empire are 1. Smaller. 2. Likely too young to have participated in the enslavement of humanity. 3. Lived a long time ago. The Blades could easily have hardened their stance since then (especially since Esbern, while not as Axe-Crazy as he could be given the shit he's been through, isn't too stable).
  • Delphine's really the one who's hardlined about it, going so far as to tell the dragonborn that they're either with the Blades or against them on the matter. Again, though, I'm not asking for an option to force the Blades into going along with letting Paarthurnax live. I'm asking for an option to answer Delphine's ultimatum with "against you" instead of just leaving the quest open and ignoring it. I'd like to give the Blades a What the Hell, Hero?; sure Paarthurnax did some bad shit back in the day. He's also the only reason why mortal kind isn't still living as dragon slaves. Far as I'm concerned that balances it out, and I want the option to tell the Blades that, and to tell them they can either accept that and stay with me, or march their asses up the seven thousand steps and explain to the Greybeards why their master has to die, and if they convince them, they're welcome to try and kill him their damn selves. Is that too much to ask?
  • Paarthunax is a dragon, and dragons have an inborn nature that drives them to dominate. He's spent millennia atop the highest mountain in Tamriel, watching the world and thinking about things. He's the leader of the Greybeards, masters of the Thu'um and one of Skyrim's most respected organizations. He knew that Alduin was not truly defeated, as well as where Alduin would eventually reappear. Odahviing says dragons don't lie, but that doesn't necessarily mean they always tell the whole truth. It's not a huge leap of logic to conclude that Paarthunax might have hidden agendas, the game just didn't do a very good job of setting it up.
  • Suspusion is not proof. Sure being a tad weary of Paarthurnax is wise but killing the one guy who offers help without making you jump through hoops and who flat out admits that he sees why you might want to kill him based on his past and nature is rather ungrateful. While he might be an evil mastermind every shred of evidence available in game supports the view that he is a genuine Atoner.
  • The annoying thing is that there was a far better motivation for killing paarthurnax that could have been used. Paarthurnax's way of the voice practices pacifism. With the defeat of Paarthurnax, either the dovahkin or Ohdavig, who serves the dovahkin, becomes the new leader. And, thanks to the aldmeri dominion, the empire is in sore need of an army of dragons. This is a lot better motivation than the one that was used instead.
  • You're all putting way too much thought into this. Esbern said "kill Paarthurnax" after hearing his name, remember. And what does his name mean in the draconic language? Paar Thur Nax = Ambition Overlord Cruelty. Gee, I wonder why you might want to kill a dragon with a name like that?
    • Except Esbern's hatred seems to come more from Paarthurnax as he is and not because of his name, what with Paarthy being the former right-hand to Alduin himself. Plus, yes, his name means essentially everything he claims to be against, but remember that, at one point, Paarthurnax DID fit in with his name but later overcame this through meditation after his Heel–Face Turn.
    • The stupidest thing about the whole situation is that Paarthurnax is just one dragon. One dragon, who has spent his time teaching Skyrim's heroes for millenia about self-restraint, who has never tried to intercede directly in mortal affairs, whose sins were inflicted on people long dead at this point. One dragon, who could be slain bodily by a team of Blades if he decided to stir shit up even without a Dragonborn at their backs. The Blades have been reduced to two people hiding in a ruin, the Thalmor are still hunting them down, and the only reason they're even getting back on their feet is because of the efforts of one person, and Delphine still puts down a hardline position to that one person (who doesn't even need them at all after Alduin is slain), even though the Blades had already been ignoring Paarthurnax's existence for the duration of the entire Septim dynasty, because of direct, never rescinded orders from Tiber Septim himself. Getting a little success after all that time hiding under their beds has apparently done a number on their brains.
    • Of course, the question now is; if immortal magic Adolf Hitler changed his mind about the whole evil thing about halfway through the Holocaust, helped the Allies stop Ultra-Mega-Hitler from destroying the world, then decided to spend the next two thousand years on a mountain teaching people how not to be Nazis, and then helped the descendants of the Jews to defeat the returned Neo-Ultra-Mega-Hitler... would you still kill him for the whole Holocaust thing? Would that be justice?
  • I think the point is, as Arngeir says, the Blades do not serve the Dragonborn despite what they claim, never have. They may claim to be an altruistic group who wants to save Tamriel from evils like the Dragons but really at this point it's just about them having a grudge against all dragons. If they were as good as they want to believe they are, wouldn't they bat an eyelid that the Dragonborn (depending on your progress of the game), the best hope against the World Eater Alduin......may also be the Listener and de-facto leader of an Assassin's group who has killed a LOT of innocent people, the top Guildmaster of a group of thieves and may have also performed some heinous deeds for the Daedric Princes including Mehrunes friggin Dagon?! Wouldn't that have been an interesting thing to bring up in the truce meeting. Ulfric Stormcloak yelling at the unfairness of the Imperials and the weakness of the Emperor and then:
    • Dragonborn: "Oh the Emperor? I've met him. He seemed a decent and lively man, till I shoved this Mehrunes Razor through his throat. He's serving Sithis now."
    • Actually the conversation I want to have is - "No - You shouldn't 'Trust' Paarthurnax. I've talked to him and he has to meditate every day to overcome his inborn desire to dominate. I've the exact same instincts - what in the world makes you think you can trust me? Has it even crossed your mind, you may need Paarthurnax to take *me* down someday?"

That touchy Imperial captain

• Why the hell did that Imperial Captain in the beginning order your death?
  • Given what little is seen of her, it may be because she is a bloodthirsty Knight Templar. People like that do, sadly, sometimes get into positions of power.
  • Alternatively, she just wanted to get through the executions as quickly as possible. They had Ulfric, and thus could end the war in a matter of minutes. She didn't have the time or patience to bother trying to clear your name. You were caught with the Stormcloaks, thus she assumes you're a Stormcloak as well.
    • Though if that was the case, you'd expect her/them to execute Ulfric first, instead of going for a random Stormcloak and then the main character - who is only a suspected Stormcloak, not a confirmed one.
    • Executing Ulfric's entire army in front of him while he's unable to do anything but watch and wait for his turn is the most dramatic way possible to rub his defeat in his face. And it'd make a better story. Also, she wasn't planning to start with the random Stormcloak, he knelt down in front of the block in the middle of the last rites, yelled "get on with it," and she obliged. Most likely she was planning to start with you and Lokir, since neither were Stormcloaks, both to build the drama (likely blaming their deaths on Ulfric, further rubbing the situation in his face) and to get rid of people that, from her viewpoint, would more likely than not make the Empire's job harder if something happened and the prisoners escaped, whether by joining the Stormcloaks or just spreading the word about the Empire executing prisoners of war without a trial.
    • I always thought that every single loyal Stormcloak would have jumped the line to be executed before Ulfric like the first one did. If, at any point, the Captain specifically ordered Ulfric's execution at any point, one of the other Stormcloaks would have said something along the lines of "eh, screw this. I've got places to be right now" and walked up to the chopping block on their own volition, one-by-one. And perhaps the Imperials figured this would happen anyway and decided to just execute the prisoners in a haphazard fashion rather than inciting what would pretty much amount to be a crossover between Spartacus and Sweeney Todd among the prisoners.

Delphine and Ustengrav

• How did Delphine manage to get through Ustengrav without setting off the traps/Draugr? Especially curious is the fact that one of the traps require the Dragonborn to have a Shout (granted, one that the Greybeards have already given them) to get by. Was there a secret passage that I missed that somehow only she could get through since it seems like there's only one main way through.
  • Delphine is just that damn good. More seriously, that trap could actually very easily be bypassed with a hireling; just have the hireling activate the lights while she stands next to the portcullis, and she runs through.
  • There is a secret passage - the one behind the tomb that you use to exit. Delphine just knew how to open it from the other side.

Ralof/Hadvar escaping Helgen

• I can't believe I didn't notice this earlier, but how does Ralof (if you follow Hadvar) or Hadvar (if you follow Ralof) escape from Helgen on their own? Or more to the point, why don't you encounter them on the way through the keep? If you follow Hadvar, you soon enter the room where Ralof went - in which both doors are locked - yet neither of the two stormcloaks in there is Ralof. Similarly, if you follow Ralof, two legionnaires come from the same room Hadvar went to, yet Hadvar's not with them. And before you ask, no, neither of them dies if you go with the other; if you switch sides during the civil war questline, they still show up. So, why don't you encounter them? And how did they escape?
  • The room Ralof went in is locked from the inside. He presumably went in, past the other stormcloaks (who locked it behind him) and snuck out through the tunnel, past the bear, spiders and torturers, ahead of Hadvar and the player (if you went for Hadvar, since you had one more room to search). If you went with Ralof, Hadvar presumably just waited things out in the first room, before leaving, not like the keep got destroyed.
    • Okay, you answer for Hadvar's absence makes sense. However, your explanation for Ralof doesn't; he clearly couldn't open either gate (which is why you or him have to loot the key off of the captain). And even if he could open it, there'd be no reason for the other stormcloaks to lock it behind him, unless they went with him. And even if that was what happened, why wouldn't he help his comrades down in the torture room?
  • Ralof likely took a different route to escape than the one you would have taken. He probably didn't even go into the keep at all, or if he did he found he was stuck and turned around to go back outside and find another way out of Helgen.
    • Agreed. If you follow Hadvar, there's no need for Ralof to save you, so he likely goes off to find Ulfric and escapes directly to Windhelm with him, likely going the "back way" through the Rift and never approaching Riverwood. The "Hadvar room" opens into the "Ralof room," and Ralof isn't in the keep when you do that with no possible way of having gone further into the keep; the only logical conclusion is that he must not be in the keep. If you follow Ralof, it's possible Hadvar stays behind in the "Hadvar room" as rear guard, and only emerges well after Ralof and the Dovahkiin have gone onward.

Hadvar abandoning people in Helgen

• Why did Hadvar just abandon that old guy and small child in Helgen?
  • Because he kind of has to help deal with the dragon. It isn't until he gets to the keep that he realizes just how screwed Helgen is an tells you to run for the keep.
  • Plus, the old man seemed capable of taking care of himself, otherwise Hadvar wouldn't have placed the boy under his charge. It's likely they both got out of Helgen...at least I like to think they did.
  • The boy, at least, did survive. His name is Haming and you can find him in a hut on the mountainside of the range in the Rift, living with his grandfather because his parents were killed during Alduin's attack.

Thalmor "escape route"

• In the cave under the Thalmor Embassy there is a frickin troll! Do people not check their escape caves often to see if anything dangerous got in? What would happen if the Embassy got attacked and the people had to flee and they met the troll in the escape route!
  • The Troll keeps people from using it to break "into" the embassy. And anyone that "matters" to the Thalmor who might have to break out (Read: Ambassador, Inquisitor, etc...) is a hardened soldier or battlemage.
  • That's not an escape tunnel. The Thalmor use it to dump the bodies of those they've finished interrogating. The troll just takes advantage of the free food.

Altmer in the intro

• If you pick High Elf as your race in the beginning, wouldn't the Imperials be really scared of executing a possible important member of the Thalmor? I mean they're already scared of the Thalmor as is, how would they feel if it turns out they killed an important person of theirs?
  • Don't make any record of your execution, toss your body in a river, and hope the Thalmor think you were killed by bandits. Not the best solution, but they weren't exactly acting logically.
    • Don't forget that there are Thalmor with General Tulius as you're carted into Helgen. If they knew who you were or objected to your execution, they would've let him know.
  • High Elf != Thalmor.
    • For that matter, Altmer != Citizen of the Aldmeri Dominion. More than a few Altmer live outside the borders of the Dominion, so it is entirely possible - indeed, fairly likely - that the Dovahkiin is an Altmer citizen of the Empire.
  • Also, many high-ranking Imperials (General Tullius, Legate Rilke, Hadvar, to name a few) despise Thalmor and the Aldmeri Dominion (and cooperate with them only because they are bound to by the Emperor's will), so they wouldn't pass an occasion to execute a potential Thalmor spy. Especially the one thought to cooperate with dangerous rebel. If you listen closely, you'll find that there are even Imperials who think it were Thalmor who orchestrated the Stormcloak rebellion. And they are not far from the truth.

Two questions regarding the Greybeards

• Why are they unable to speak? Shouts only work in draconic, so you'd assume they'd still be capable of speaking other languages.
  • The Greybeards are still fully capable of human speech, it's just that their voices are so powerful, they'd kill anyone they tried to have a conversation with. Arngeir flat-out tells you this is the case if you ask him why he's the only one who'll talk with you. If you do try to interact with any of the other Greybeards, they'll whisper an acknowledgement to you that causes the whole room to quake.
  • But why would their human speech hold any power at all? Even the shouts created by humans (like dragonrend, and possibly that weird target thingie the greybeards summon) are spoken in draconic. But all the greybeards speak in the game is draconic.
    • Hmmm.... You're right. In fact, I just realized that Arngeir is the only one to ever use human tongue. Even when one of the other Greybeards speaks to him during part of the main quest, it's in draconic. Perhaps it's simply that the other Greybeards have spent so long speaking with the Voice that they've forgotten all other languages.
    • Or maybe that's just their means of discipline. Maybe they believe that using human speech interferes with their ability to use Thu'um?
    • We meet their founder in sovngarde, and he still speaks non-draconic. Paarthurnax, who created the teachings for the greybeards apparently also follows them himself, and he speaks as well, so it apparently isn't part of the way of the voice. And its not just length, since Arngeir wouldn't be able to speak human either in that case.
    • Paarthurnax is a dragon and by extension, naturally a master, like Arngeir. otherwise you (remember, dragon soul in mortal body) wouldn't be able to speak to anyone)
  • Because the power of the Thu'um is not based on the dragon language; the dragon language focuses the Thu'um. Its the difference between a controlled gunpowder reaction in a firearm to direct a bullet, and an uncontrolled gunpowder cookoff. If you spend enough time studying it and understanding it, the Thu'um itself becomes an unconscious part of you. You project power through your voice, and Borri, Wulfgar, and Einarth have simply reached a point where anything they say unconsciously carries the power of the Thu'um. Speaking int he dragon language keeps the Thu'um from going out of control and leveling the entire building, and even then, simply speaking causes the building to shake.
  • Why are there no students? All of the greybeards are fairly advanced in age and it takes a long, long time for someone to learn even the most basic shouts (and paarthunax can hardly go looking for students himself), so with any bad luck, all of 4 of them could die before being able to teach someone the clear weather shout (which would allow him/her to visit paarthunax).
    • Two things: One, their selection methods are extremely strict, and not everyone is willing to live the extremely secluded and meditative life of a Greybeard. Two, they did have one known student (ya'know, Ulfric), but he not only left, but also used his shout to kill the King of Skyrim. Maybe they're not exactly willing to teach many more people after that.
    • The Greybeards were masters of the Voice over six hundred years ago when Tiber Septim lived. I think it's safe to say that old age isn't an issue for them. And it is extremely unlikely that they would die a violent death, as they are some of the most powerful NPCs in the game in addition to having a brace of Dragon Shouts to use. Just lure a troll into High Hrothgar and see just how much "bad luck" it'll take for a Greybeard to actually go down. Even if they did, it wouldn't cut Paarthurnax off from the rest of the world, since he could easily fly down from the mountain and teach Clear Skies to someone else.
    • Those weren't the same Greybeards. If they are immortal then how did Jurgen Windcaller die... There's no indication they live older than any older mortal.
    • For all we know, they do have other students. Those students just don't happen to be present in the monastery at the moment, perhaps sent to investigate rumors about the dragons and/or to keep them out of the way of the visiting Dragonborn.

Ralof accusing the Thalmor of helping capture Ulfric

• In the beginning Rolof says the Thalmor helped the Imperials capture Ulfric. Why? Isn't it best for the Thalmor to have the war keep on going?
  • Ralof says nothing about the Thalmor directly helping with the capture of Ulfric. He says that they might have been involved at some point, but he is not really a knowledgeable source regarding how they were captured.
  • Ralof guesses that the Thalmor had a hand in their capture. That doesn't necessarily mean they did. Assuming they did, the dossier on Ulfric mentions his rebellion is doing just a little bit too well for their liking. They could have decided that it was better to nip it at they bud and come up with another plot to weaken the empire.
  • The dossier on Ulfric does mention that him winning the war and becoming High King of Skyrim is a very bad thing for the Dominion, so it's likely the Thalmor decided that Ulfric had done enough to weaken the Empire and decided to get rid of him by giving off some intel they had of him to the Empire.
    • The Dossier says only a Stormcloak victory should be avoided.
  • The Thalmor had nothing to do with Ulfric's capture, in fact, in the Thalmor dossier on Ulfric, they explicitly say that Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chances of an Imperial victory and thus harmed the Thalmor's position in Skyrim. Ralof was just pissed off about having been captured and when he saw Elenwen talking with Tullius decided that the Thalmor would make a good scapegoat.
    • Actually, the entire opposite is true. The same dossier says that him winning the war (which he was very close to doing before Tulius came along) is even worse than an Imperial victory because it means that they have to deal with a revitalized, wild-card nation that absolutely hates them and which provides two fronts for them to content with. And that such an outcome must be implicitly avoided. It's perfectly logical to assume that they thought that Ulfric had done enough to destabilize the Empire and decided to cut him off at that point. Which also makes sense regarding their presence at the execution. And why she was even talking with Tulius anyway.
    • Hrrm no. The Dossier says no such thing. Seriously, go read it rather than making up huge statements it never says. It only says a Stormcloak victory should be avoided and they must therefore be careful about any help they give the Stormcloak. It never implies a Stormcloak victory is worst than an Imperial one. It never gives a reason why it'd be bad. For all we know it's to be avoided coz its less preferable than the conflict never ending. On top of that, the two front thing makes no sense. Skyrim is north of Cyrodill, and the Dominion is south of Cyrodill. If a war broke out, it'd be still just one front. Independant Skyrim or not.
    • If Ulfric and his lot win, it would basically lead to the Empire fracturing, considering Skyrim bridges the Northern Imperial states to the Southern ones. So the idea that the Thalmor would like to avoid a Stormcloak victory because they want both sides to keep fighting when one's victory means the annihilation of one of their foes carries no weight. Them dreading a Skyrim under Ulfric's leadership is the only reason why they would be wary of a Stormcloak victory; in spite of the many advantages it would provide them. Secondly, fronts = foes. The Dominion has shown it can barely conduct itself when fighting one enemy at a time. Now consider the sort of logistical burden it would be on them to fight the northwestern Redguards as well as the northeastern Nords.
    • That doesn't make any sense either. The Stormcloaks are at a stalemate with the Fourth Legion. Lore has mentioned there being up to 18 Legions, and even if you assume that there are fewer now that the Empire is in decline, there still has to be a minimum of three other Legions. The idea that the Thalmor are somehow scared of a group that can barely hold their own (the dossier mentions indirect aid to the Stormcloaks while not even hinting at aid for the Imperials) against an absolute minimum estimate of 1/4 of the Empire's total forces is silly. The fact that they tried to save him at Helgen (again, see dossier, they mention an exception to their hands-off policy specifically because Ulfric dying would increase the chances of an Imperial victory, there's no other way to interpret that) is also indicative that they aren't exactly quaking in their boots at Ulfric. Also, an independent Skyrim would have no border with any territory the Dominion controls, so they wouldn't even be able to fight them unless Cyrodiil or Hammerfell falls, ergo there's no second front for the Thalmor to worry about. The Thalmor want the conflict to remain indecisive, not because they're afraid of either side, but because they want both sides to waste as many soldiers and resources as possible.
  • There aren't eighteen legions. There aren't even FOUR legions. Besides, if the Imperials were as dangerous as you say, one of their legions would be competent enough to deal with a ragtag rebellion while headed by one of the most brilliant military minds in Tamriel, don't you think? The Thalmor wouldn't want either side winning, because then they're facing a fully prepared army led by a Physical God who can bend time, call storms, breath fire/ice/thunder, and rip your soul from your body without having to get anywhere near you, without even considering any other skills the Dragonborn might have, such as the ability to slaughter his way through a full army with a huge sword, sneak into a fortress and slit someone's gullet, burn an entire unit of soldiers to ashes, or put an arrow through the general's helmet from across the battlefield. A Skyrim led by Ulfric would be bad for the Thalmor, but they never considered the Dragonborn's appearance. Given the Thalmor's track record of incompetence and backstabbing, they probably would have issues holding their own against Skyrim's army even if it was just Ulfric and Galmor. If the Dragonborn was also there to boot the Thalmor in their saggy Elven testicles, they'd get their shit wrecked completely if they tried anything. Look at what happens whenever the Legion/Stormcloaks go up against a unit of Stormcloaks/Legionnaires during the game. Now replace the enemy soldiers with Thalmor peons and you have a fairly decent idea of what would happen.
  • The idea that the Stormcloaks and the Legion are at a stalemate isn't entirely accurate, either. While the rebellion's been going on for a couple of years now, before the Battle of Whiterun it was only small scale raids and skirmishes, nothing with enough impact to say one side was really winning. Whiterun is where the war starts in earnest, and once that's decided, whichever side wins proceeds to steamroll the other side. And for all this talk of wasting soldiers and resources, generally speaking a battle-tested and battle-hardened army is going to perform better than a green one. The Thalmor couldn't hold Independent Hammerfell on their own. They won't stand a chance of holding Skyrim under Stormcloak rule.
    • Honestly, I think they would be able to nip it in the bud pretty fast. Hammerfell, from most accounts, simply seceded from the Empire. They were still at full fighting capacity, and had their full attention on the Dominion. Skyrim would still be recovering from a Civil War (which both depletes their forces and could divide their focus between the Dominion and Imperial remnants/dissenters). They'd be both worried about the Thalmor, and about internal strife (say, a coalition of VERY upset Dunmeri, Saxhleel, Altmer, Khajiit, and Cyrodiils who decide they're not going to tolerate the current situation, backed by Imperial-allied Nords who see Ulfric as a rabble-rousing false king).
  • First of all, prove that there aren't at least four legions. Even ignoring that if there were fewer they likely would have renamed it, there is only one legion that is explicitly stated to have been destroyed in the Great War, and that was the 8th. Furthermore, as mentioned before, there are 18 legions mentioned in lore. The burden of proof is on you to say that the lore is inaccurate. Second, I've seen squads of Thalmor and Stormcloaks fighting, and the Thalmor won. "Kicking the Thalmor in their soggy testicles" is far easier said than done. As for a battle-hardened army being better, maybe, but numbers do play a role. Finally, you're comparing Skyrim to Hammerfell? A situation where the Thalmor were working off the ragged remains of their strength against a nation that had its army bolstered by large numbers of released legionnaires to a fully rested and rebuilt Thalmor machine against a nation that's just been devastated by civil war? The second treaty of Stros M'kai that ended the Hammerfell/Dominion war was signed in 4E 180. If you think that the Thalmor are still as weak as they were right after the Great War, then there's clearly an irreconcilable gap in our views.
    • One of the advantages men have over mer is that they reproduce considerably faster. So the empire and the provinces have recouped their losses considerably better than the Dominion. And while the civil war may have cost some casualties, remember, the Dominion carries out eugenic purges on it's on population, so they aren't exactly helping themselves, either. The Dominion isn't nearly as powerful as it wants everyone to think it is. It's projecting the illusion of power to bluff the world into fearing it. Ulfric's grown tired of the Mede policy of buying into the lie, bending over, and letting the Thalmor go in dry for thirty years while giving the wink-wink nudge-nudge to the provinces "don't worry guys, we're totally going to take it to these elves eventually". What's more, the empire's happy enough to shout the thalmor propaganda to keep the provinces in line. They probably could have taken the fight to them by now if they didn't want to keep them around as a scare tactic to maintain their own weakening grasp on power. Meanwhile, Ulfric's got a battle-tested army, willing allies on all sides- he's very clear that he has no intention of fighting this war alone, he wants to ally with the surrounding provinces, he just wants independent rule, and more importantly, leadership that isn't afraid to act- and more importantly than anything, he's got the dragonborn on his side(this is, of course, assuming a stormcloak aligned playthrough, otherwise the argument is moot). If I was the dominion I'd be shitting myself at the thought.
    • First of all, if you're going to try to claim that that the Empire is trying to use the threat of the Thalmor to maintain power, some evidence would be nice. As for willing allies, what willing allies are you talking about? Morrowind, who's people he confines to a slum? The Argonians, who he won't even let into his city? Cyrodiil, who he's just severed all ties with? High Rock, who he's already FAILED at making an alliance with? Which leaves...Hammerfell. That's it. Hardly "willing allies on all sides". And him allying with them isn't a sure thing, given that his general's response to being asked how to join them is "If you aren't a true son of Skyrim, you'd better walk away right now or things are gonna get ugly", hardly a diplomatic masterpiece. Eugenics purges are not confirmed to be real, and even if they are, that only affects the Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit can still breed like rabbits. As for the Dominion not being powerful, remember that the last time this group showed up, Tiber Septim, the beloved Talos himself, needed freaking Numidium to bring them to their knees. The combined forces of four nations being able to hold them off doesn't mean that an invasion is at all likely to succeed. The dragonborn is a plus for either side, so that's not a huge issue. Anyway, to bring this back to the original question, in the Dossier, the Thalmor explicitly state that an Imperial victory harms their position in Skyrim, and that they had to make an exception to their hands-off policy to save Ulfric. So no, the Thalmor had nothing to do with Ulfric's capture. Given that the dossier states they tried to save Ulfric, regardless of whether you'd be shitting yourself at the thought, the Thalmor are obviously not afraid enough of him that they're willing to let him die. That says more about Ulfric's threat level than any amount of bluster. On a final note, we have gotten very far from the original question, and the headscratchers page is probably not the best place for page-spanning debates. So if it's amenable to you, I believe we should take this to the forums.
  • And I've seen outnumbered Stormcloaks hand Imperials their asses on a silver plate. What the hell's your point? And yes the Imperials are using the threat of the Thalmor to maintain power in Skyrim, primarily due to the fact that it's been 30 fucking years since the war and they've done nothing to improve their position. Hell, the entire pretense for them maintaining their hold on Skyrim is the Thalmor threat, regardless of the fact that when Ulfric wins, the Thalmor are thrown out of the country. There may not be an outright admission of them using it, but it's obvious they use fear of them to an extent. As for ties, Hammerfell is likely the second strongest human kingdom after Skyrim, so its a big bonus. And the others would simply join with him out of convenience. There has never been a political and military alliance broken off simply because one of the nations didn't like the other. Hell, look the Allies in WWII. Russia was in on there, weren't they? Also, THIS DOMINION IS NOT THAT DOMINION. And there is nothing to say they maintain a similar level of power. Finally, the dossier also states that a Stormcloak victory harms their interest also. So that's probably the reason why they're willing to let Ulfric die in the prologue - he already dealt a great deal of pain for the Empire, but him getting too strong is something they'd rather avoid. After all, it's not like the Stormcloak rebellion would die with Ulfric. Hell, it's not even the case when Windhelm is stormed and their powerbase is undone.
    • Alright, this is obviously going way off-topic, so instead of rehashing everything, I'll quote the damned Dossier directly. "As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim." Right there. The Thalmor had nothing to do with Ulfric's capture, and any intervention was done to prevent his death. Now, for the rest of it, why don't we do like I suggested earlier, and take it to the forums, which are much more conducive to a back and forth debate.
    • If you pay attention and do the Imperial playthrough, Tullius basically says that the ONLY reason the Stormcloak rebellion is anything other than a minor nuisance is because the Empire isn't fully committed to the war in Skyrim. He complains that he has to fight the war with only ONE legion, because the others are in Cyrodil watching the border with the Dominion, and preparing for the next war. The Empire could steamroll over Ulfric's little rebellion if they didn't have the Thalmor to watch out for.

The prisoner carts coming from Ivaarstead

• So Ulfric is captured by the Imperials, and is taken to Helgen. In the beginning when you are in the cart, it seems you are coming from Ivarstead. Isn't that entire area Stormcloak territory? How did they manage to sneak Ulfric through such a hostile place? There's a Stormcloak camp literally a mile away.
  • Said camp has only a few people in it. And look around Skyrim while you're wandering around. 90% of the time, there's no one in sight. And this isn't an age of cellphones and text messaging. Even if someone did witness a the ambush, they'd have to run all the way to the nearest Stormcloak camp, the Stormcloaks would have to organize a rescue force, and the rescue force would have to run all the way out there to where the ambush happened. That would take time, and by then the Imperials would be long gone.
  • Could be that the camp was established by Ulfric's own entourage, most of whom were captured or killed shortly afterward. The Stormcloaks who are found there may be the lucky few who'd eluded the Imperials' ambush.

Alduin's Wall

• Alduin's wall. Wouldn't you want your records that detail the events of the destruction of the world to be a little more clear than some vague pictures? I mean, we know what most of it means, but only because we played the previous elder scrolls games, so we know what to look for. Most people in-universe don't really seem all that educated and don't know exactly what time period every scene is supposed to portray. The oblivion sign is not exactly rare, volcanoes aren't unique and there is more than 1 legendary staff, so the whole time indication is vague too. I get that carving something into a wall lasts longer than paper, but couldn't they also have carved
  Hey, is the world being attacked by dragons? Did the staff of chaos get reassembled, has numidium warped the space-time continuum, has red mountain blown up and has Mehrunes Dagon invaded? In that case, you should look for a dragonborn. He can eat dragon souls and gain cool shouting powers. He is the only one who can kill Alduin, who has travelled through time to destroy the world (or enslave it. We're not that sure. Sorry about that.) Tell the dragonborn to go to sovngarde (and not by dying, plz) and team up with the guys who defeated Alduin before, into the wall? That would have made everything a lot clearer.
  • Images mean there's no language barrier. It all happened so long ago that even the same language may have become unrecognizable by now.
  • Except that all the entry puzzels depend on language. You can't even enter the temple without knowing the akaviri symbol for dragonborn, which, even at the time, would be fairly obscure. In addition, we know that beings who live for hundreds of years aren't exactly uncommon in the elder scrolls universe, so language likely doesn't change as quickly. Furthermore, it wouldn't have to replace the wall, just a small extra. They apparently spend years working on the wall, and carving some words shouldn't be that hard.
  • For all we know, there were written records of the prophecy. Esbern was able to piece together the mural's meaning using other knowledge he had assembled during his studies, after all. Most likely, the records as a whole were lost long ago, and the mural is simply an artistic rendering of the prophecy.
  • To put it bluntly, no, the Akaviri wouldn't do something that simple. Its a cultural thing. Esbern himself says this straight out when you reach Alduin's wall.
  Esbern: The Akaviri were not a straightforward people. Everything is couched in allegory and mythic symbolism.
  • So, no. The Akaviri wouldn't put down simple text to explain how to stop Alduin in simple terms. Their entire cultural mindset was against doing that.
  • The Akaviri did not write anything in text because they never intended for anyone who wasn't Akaviri to enter the temple. The entrance was sealed with Akaviri runes and had a door locked by a seal that would only open to a Dragonborn. From that alone it's pretty clear that Alduin's Wall was meant to be accessed by only the Akiviri who were serving a Dragonborn, and in that case there would be someone among the group who could read Alduin's Wall. Indeed, the entrance puzzles would pretty much exclude anyone who wasn't able to both read the Wall and then use the information on the Wall to do something.

Helgen's strategic value

• How come more isn't made of Helgen's destruction? It was a large Imperial stronghold, now completely gone. The Stormcloaks have free reign from Falkreath to Whiterun. But no panic in Solitude?
  • The stormcloaks didn't want to antagonize Whiterun and Falkreath isn't exactly a top priority on anyone's lists.
  • They didn't want to antagonize Whiterun? Sorry, but that's exactly what Ulfric is planning when you first meet him back in Windhelm. The only reason Whiterun doesn't do anything about it is Story Versus Gameplay Segregation.
  • Ulfric is planning yes, but the civil war makes it clear that Ulfric is still somewhat hopeful that Whiterun will join the rebellion. He's going to take Whiterun, but he isn't going to do anything against them before his final assault.
  • Any movement by the Stormcloaks into the area around Whiterun will potentially scare Balgruuf right into the Imperial camp, which will result in an Imperial garrison bolstering the Whiterun army. Ulfric has everything to gain by keeping Balgruuf neutral; if he can convince Balgruuf to surrender he gets a critical strategic resource. If he can't, then he'll have an easier time taking Whiterun when it doesn't have Legion troops supporting it.
  • I'm not really talking about attacking Whiterun, I'm talking about the fact that with Helgen gone the Stormcloaks basically gain control of a large portion of the river valley. They can sack Falkreath, and then keep heading west and hit the cities there.
    • Again, doing so would likely scare Whiterun into the Imperial camp. Falkreath is not a major strategic resource, and if Balgruuf feels threatened by a push right next door to his city, he'll throw in with the Empire, and then the Legion will be able to cut off any force sent into Falkreath. As long as Balgruuf remains neutral, Ulfric can't risk antagonizing him until Whiterun is seized. Once again, the war hinges on Whiterun.
    • Why would taking Falkreath, a rival of Whiterun, then heading west AWAY from Whiterun make Balgruuf turn to the Imperials?
    • Because in doing so, Ulfric would both gain a stronger strategic position and a better position from whence to strike at Whiterun. If Ulfric controls Falkreath he can hit Whiterun from multiple directions and cut off trade with Cyrodiil - especially important because of Falkreath's otherwise limited strategic value. The only reason to take Falkreath would be to either strike at Whiterun or Markarth, and Markarth is a fair distance away from Ulfric's other strongholds. Were I in Balgruuf's shoes, if Ulfric took Falkreath I'd throw in with the Imperials because taking Falkreath would give the Stormcloaks a direct line to my unprotected backdoor.
    • Ulfric can't get at Falkreath without taking Whiterun first. Falkreath and the Rift are separated by rough, treacherous mountains that are difficult and dangerous to march an army through. The best way to get at Falkreath would be going through Whiterun hold which he can't do without either Balgruuf openly joining the rebellion(which is what Ulfric was hoping for) or taking Whiterun by force.
    • Also, if you look at the map as it stands, and consider Ulfric's forces, holding where he in in the Rift offers him a better position. As it stands, he can block any major Imperial movement into the Rift by blocking the mountain pass, and with Helgen gone it greatly extends enemy lines of supply if they move south into the Rift. Meanwhile, moving into Falkreath would demand that he dispatch significant forces through rough terrain. He'd have to deploy sufficient numbers of troops to cover both the roads running from Whiterun and the ones coming from Markarth. Holding Falkreath would offer further complications due to terrain, as it has the thickest forests in Skyrim and comparatively hilly terrain, perfect for geurilla operations, forcing the Stormcloaks to employ more men to protect the holdings around Falkreath. There's also an Imperial camp close to the mountain pass south of the Throat of the World which would spot any mobilization almost instantly and get runners out well before the Stormcloaks could get anyone through the pass, resulting in a likely Imperial counter-march. Without control of Whiterun to guard his northern flank, Ulfric can't expect to take and hold Falkreath.
    • Because Falkreath Hold in Stormcloak hands would effectively split the Empire into two pieces, taking Falkreath is a strategic imperative - which is why it's the first thing they do after they take Whiterun. But they have to take Whiterun first, because as previous posters have stated, without Whiterun Hold in Stormcloak hands, Falkreath is indefensible - taking it would almost certainly make Balgruuf overtly side Imperial, the Stormcloaks would have to march through that narrow pass in the Rift (and it's not unreasonable to assume an attempt to do just that to take Falkreath was what resulted in the Imperial ambush the player character gets caught up in at the beginning of the game), and the Stormcloaks would be squeezed on both sides. In fact, if Ulfric did this, Legionnaires from Cyrodiil could march northward to retake Falkreath, while Legionnaires from Skyrim march eastward through Whiterun and threaten Eastmarch itself. Controlling Whiterun eliminates this very significant risk, not to mention that because Whiterun is a major economic center and road hub, to control it would severely curtail the Empire's ability to move troops between Cyrodiil and Solitude and make it much easier for the Stormcloaks to take Falkreath. The war really is won or lost at Whiterun; that's not simply an expedient of the game.

Thalmor in the Ratway

• This really only applies when Riften's under Stormcloak control, but how did whole squads of Thalmor Justiciars manage to make it into the Ratway? The only way one can enter Riften's sewers requires entering the city proper and all the entrances have guards stationed close enough by so that the alarm could be raised. Whilst I understand that the Riften guards are indeed corrupt, I doubt any amount of bribe money could get past the Stormcloaks' sheer hatred of the Thalmor and whilst they could've gone in disguised, wouldn't large numbers of Altmer attempting to enter the city cause someone in the guard to get suspicious, considering the current political climate?
  • There are undoubtedly other ways into the city that aren't being watched by the guards, they just aren't accessible to the player. Indeed, it would be rather silly if the Thieves' Guild didn't have one or more secret entrances. Why bribe the guards at the front gate to ignore your stolen goods when you can sneak in and save yourself the cash? In this case I'm guessing the Thalmor probably came in through a sewer outflow pipe or something.
  • There's also the fact that they'd already slipped one spy into the city even before you got there, and that they had an informant and were able to grab another member of the Thieves' Guild in secret. There's likely a few guards on the Thalmor's payroll who would easily be able to look the other way to let them in.
  • Riften is a place where Every Man Has His Price, and the Thalmor aren't hurting for cash (or gold coins or whatever) by any means...
  • How'd the khajiit spy get in the city? Same way you did. She paid the "visitor's tax" or persuaded the guards. How'd the Thalmor get into the city? Maven Blackbriar. She likes the Thalmor, remember? And she controls Riften. So she either let the Thalmor in by her criminal influence, or directly as the Jarl if you joined the Imperials.
    • Whilst Maven may respect the Thalmor she never explicitly said that she outright likes them, and in Stormcloak Riften it seems highly unlikely that even she would aid and abet them in such an incursion. As for Imperial Riften, the Thalmor could just simply cite the White Gold Concordat to the guards and stroll on in. The alternate unplayable secret entrances explanation seems more likely anyway.
  • Can you tell a Thalmor from any other Altmer if they're not wearing their uniform? Come into Riften as elven traders or something. Unpack their armor and weapons after they're already inside the gates. Head down into the Ratway. If necessary, use an invisibility spell or potion to sneak past guards. Done.
  • Riften's walls aren't patrolled and there's only a few guards patrolling at night. Sneak a squad over the top of the walls with rope or ladders, and have your Khajiit spy or Thieves' Guild plant discreetly pay the patrols to look the other way, and then go down into the Ratway to go your business.

Why depend on Delphine?

• I saw no reason to trust Delphine. From the start, she was secretive and manipulative. Also, not that bright. As far as she knows, she's one of the last Blades, she's told no one about what she knows, and if she or the Dragonborn died, the whole plan is ruined. She then goes to face a dragon with me in tow, and even comments on the way that neither of us may survive. I also agree with the White-Gold Concordant, which makes Delphine a criminal. I would've turned her in right away if I could. Such distrust was justified when she wanted to break into the Thalmor embassy. On a hunch. I should've been able to research dragons on my own, or ask Farengar, the College, or the Greybeards about them. The Greybeards would've let me talk to Paarthurnax had I described Alduin. They seemed to already know about his return. Then Paarthurnax would've told me about Alduin, Dragonrend, and the Elder Scroll. No need to go to Sky Haven Temple, no need to have the Blades betray their oath to me, no need to go against the Aldmeri Dominion, and I just saved myself a lot of crucial time. Why did I need to depend on her?
  • Because at that moment, the Last Dragonborn doesn't know who Alduin is. All they no is that the dragon who revived Sahloknir is the same one who tried to kill them in Helgen. They don't learn about Alduin or his purpose until meeting Esbern.
  • The Greybeards would not have let you meet Paarthunax by mentioning Alduin - case and point: they don't do it even when you mention it in the regular story. It's the mention of Dragonrend that gets Einarth to convince Arngeir to stop blocking you. And the only one who can interpret Alduin's Wall to realize Dragonrend is needed is Esbern. Yes, Delphine's a jerk, but a necessary jerk nonetheless.
  • You don't have to trust her. You can always go do some faction quests instead.
  • Who was Delphine going to tell that would believe her and that she can trust not to betray her to the Thalmor? She doesn't even really know what's going on until you're reunited with Esbern. Yeah, her and the Dragonborn getting killed would ruin everything, but its not like she has other options or even has any idea what's going on. And sure, while your character might agree with the White-Gold Concordat, the game assumes that either your character doesn't agree with it for countless reasons or just doesn't care about it. Delphine, being familiar with the Thalmor, would have good reason to believe they would have information, especially because up until this point the Thalmor are the best suspects for the dragon return. Not to mention that there is zero evidence that the Greybeards would allow access to Paarthurnax just because you mentioned Alduin. (plus, there's this weird contradiction in the argument; they'd let you up there if you described Alduin, implying that warning them of Alduin would be reason to let you up there, yet you then mention that they seem to know about Alduin's return already?) Why would Farengar or the College know anything about the dragon return, either? Hell, Delphine is the one who has to supply Farengar (who is actively researching the dragons) with information on the dragon return, indicating that she's the most knowledgeable about the situation in Skyrim (short of Esbern himself).

Attending the Thalmor party

• By this point in playing the main quest, you've always been automatically made Thane of Whiterun (there is no way to opt out of it). So why can't you legitimately attend the Thalmor party? Or at least introduce yourself as Thane to all of the other Thanes and Jarls in attendance?
  • You'll draw a lot more attention than just another guest at the party. If you're standing out like that, they'll miss you very quickly once you disappear. The last thing you want is to draw more attention than is strictly necessary by that point.
  • Concur. The whole point is that no one is supposed to know you from anyone else in the party. If you make yourself stand out, the Thamor will find out and stop you. Like they did once you started hacking your way out of the Thalmor Embassy once you procured the dossiers.
  • Also note that if you get caught or hack your way through the Thalmor, it would seriously bounce back on the Jarl of Whiterun. He'd almost certainly end up suffering in some way for your crimes.
  • The player's title as Thane is directly connected to their place as Dragonborn. Announcing yourself as the Thane of Whiterun means that you'll announce yourself as the Dragonborn to the Thalmor, which means you're announcing yourself as a hero of legend and prophecy and who also is the kind of person being sought by the Blades and who may well have a legitimate claim to the Ruby Throne via divine right. In other words, every single Thalmor eye in the Embassy will be watching you like a hawk, and you'll never get anything done.
  • Also, most of the Thanes aren't invited - Erikur is an exception, but it's heavily implied he was invited there for business related reasons, not because of his title; everyone else who shows up is either a Jarl, a notable merchant, another member of the Thalmor (Ondolemar), or a General (Tullius).

Why is Lokir on the list?

• At the start of the game, Lokir insists that he's not a rebel, and Ralof treats him like he's just some random mildly-annoying thief. But Lokir's name and birthplace are already written down on Hadvar's list. Since the Dragonborn isn't on that list, it can't just be the names of everybody who was captured. In fact, it looks more like the Empire wrote up a list of people they want dead — and Lokir is on it. Is he more than just a horse thief after all?
  • More likely he just got arrested and told them his name. (and generally, "of [location]" serves as a stand-in for a last name in medieval cultures, if someone hasn't done anything to earn a family name or title) The Dragonborn probably didn't tell the Imperials his/her name when s/he was arrested, so you're not on the list when Hadvar starts going down it. Everyone the Imperials arrested was going to get killed, the Dragonborn was just the only one whose name wasn't written down.
    • The Dragonborn didn't give his name because he was passed out. Remember, the game opens with you coming to.
    • If the list was simply a list of everyone in the carts, then no one would have thought anything of him not being written down. It'd be a simple matter of, oh, whoops, we miscounted, off to the block you go. But Hadvar hesitates, like someone not being on the list means they don't belong there. It's more than just a list of everyone they rounded up. It's a list of people the Empire wants executed. And apparently, the Empire wants Lokir executed. (Also, the Dragonborn could have easily been noted on the list simply as some individual who didn't divulge their name. But they weren't noted at all, which, again, doesn't make sense if the list was written after the capture.)
    • Hadvar's just asking for clarification when he notes the Dragonborn isn't on the list. When there's a gap in the records you go to a higher up for clarification. And you know what? The Captain says the Dragonborn's supposed to die. So yes, everyone in the cart was marked for death regardless; Hadvar just noted a clerical error. You're reading way too much into this.
    • The question that I probably should have asked originally is whether the list was written before or after the capture. If the list were written after the capture, the Dragonborn should have been on the list in some form (and I'm surprised that anyone would care that he's not on it, since it's no more than a formality). It seems improbable that they'd just forget to note one of their eight-ish prisoners, especially one who isn't talking. But if it were written before the capture, as a sort of warrant for arrest and execution, then Lokir shouldn't have been on the list either. Thus, headscratcher.
    • It obviously wasn't written before the capture, because they wouldn't know who was actually there until the operation took place. After the operation was completed, the Imperials would have made their list, but someone goofed and didn't add the Dragonborn. Again, you're making too much out of what is obviously a clerical error. The most likely explanation is the Dragonborn was unconscious during the point where they were writing the list, and the Imperial clerk responsible figured they were all dead anyway and didn't bother.
    • The hesitation was just Hadvar looking for your name on the list, then asking the captain (his superior) what to do once he realizes you're not on the list. The captain says to basically not worry about it and on with the execution. As to why you and Lokir had to die? It's been discussed a number of times before and the general answer seems to be that the captain didn't want you two running around saying they were executing Ulfric Stormcloak and his men without a trial. If that happens, it'll incite more support for Ulfric's cause. Best to nip that potential headache in the bud.
  • In the Middle Ages, horse theft was a very serious crime, up their with murder, and was usually punishable by death. So, yeah, Lokir's sentence makes sense for the time. The real question is, why isn't the Dragonborn punished more severely when s/he steals a horse?
    • Because you're the *freaking* Dragonborn? Either that, or Lokir is a repeat offender.
    • Or Lokir stole a horse from the Legion, and was marked for execution because he'd robbed the military, not just some farmer.

Why does Delphine want to kill Paarthurnax?

Esbern (who was mentioned in a previous headscratcher) has at least some reason to want to kill dragons; he's an ancient scholar who believed in them long after everyone else forgot them and has devoted his life to interpreting prophecies so he can fight them. But Delphine didn't even know dragons existed until a few weeks ago; she was fixated on fighting the Thalmor and preserving the Blades, not on the dragons, to the point where she initially assumed the dragons were just some sort of Thalmor plot. When did she suddenly become an anti-dragon fanatic? From her perspective, rebuilding the Blades as she knew them — which requires keeping a good relationship with the Dragonborn, and which, until a few weeks ago, had nothing to do with dragons — should be vastly, unfathomably more important than Esbern's obsession with ancient forgotten books and legends. If Esbern says something about killing Paarthurnax, and the player refuses, shouldn't Delphine instantly side with the Dragonborn? She has no reason to feel this strongly about Paarthurnax, and overwhelming reasons to feel strongly about keeping the Dragonborn on their side (without that, after all, it's meaningless to call yourself the Blades; and without the Dragonborn, it's unsafe to use Sky Haven Temple as a base, since only the Dragonborn can open and close its entrance.) Why is Delphine suddenly willing to throw away her dreams of reviving the Blades and fighting the Thalmor over a disagreement about dragons, something she couldn't possibly have had an opinion on until very very recently?

• Who said she didn't have a strong opinion on the dragons? Keep in mind that the entire reason the Blades existed in the first place, long before they became the Emperor's bodyguards, was to hunt and kill dragons. The entire reason why they serve to protect the Dragonborn is because the Dragonborn are the ultimate dragon slayers. The entire reason the Akaviri traveled to Tamriel in the first place was to hunt and kill dragons. Every single Blade is a traditional descendant of the original Akaviri Dragonguard who hated dragons so much that they crossed and ocean and invaded an entire continent just to keep killing dragons. Hunting and killing dragons is an essential part of the Blades' entire existence. Delphine would have had this doctrine instilled into her when she joined them and it clearly comes out when she orders you to go kill Paarthurnax.
• And Paarthunax was Alduin's right hand man, and was guilty of a lot of atrocities on his own, so as far as she was concerned, he had a lot to answer for, even if his crimes occurred 2,000 years ago. My problem is that you, the Dragonborn, are unable to use your own station to remind her that she follows you, and whatever you say goes, not the other way around.
• In a weird way, it does make sense that she will refuse to help you if you refuse to kill Paarthurnax. The Dragonborn is the ultimate dragonslayer, which is why the Dragonguard/Blades followed Tiber Septim and protected the Septim dynasty. By not slaying every dragon you encounter, you're effectively abandoning your role, as far as they see it. If you're not helping them slay every dragon, then they owe you nothing. Its a fanatical mindset, but the Blades can be that way. They invaded an entire continent to kill dragons, after all, and as far as they're concerned, that's your entire role.
• And, your entire being exists to kill dragons and absorb their souls, so in some way, they're wondering why you're suddenly acting hesitant toward this one dragon. You've killed countless other dragons before, so why are you suddenly acting all high and mighty about leaving this one dragon alive and not just any dragon, but Alduin's second-in-command!. From their perspective, not only are you abandoning your role, but you're basically siding up with what they think is the second most evil being in the world (excluding the Thalmor.) No wonder they do't want to have anything to do with you after this.
• The reason why you can't use your authority to make the Blades follow you is because you don't have any authority over the Blades. The Akaviri swore loyalty to Reman Cyrodiil and his line and the Dragonguard later swore to Tiber Septim and his bloodline. They did so because they were Dragonborn, but they still swore loyalty to those leaders and their lines. The Blades have not sworn loyalty to you in particular. They have absolutely no reason to follow you solely because you're a Dragonborn. You have to prove being worth swearing loyalty to in the first place.
• Wouldn't killing Alduin and literally saving existence itself earn you that loyalty? Beyond that, Martin in Oblivion was revered and protected by Blades of the 2nd Era long before he ever did anything impressive to earn it. Even after saving the damn world, Esbern and Delphine will only briefly congratulate you on the victory but go right back to denying you a place among the Blades until you kill Paarthy. No, it's not about earning their loyalty, the Blades in Skyrim have simply fallen to a place where they've defined themselves solely as dragon hunters instead of serving the Dragonborn. They've basically just reverted to being the Dragonguard. It's been 200 years after all, and given that they're both men and not mer, Delphine and Esbern wouldn't have ever actually served a Dragonborn before the player. Now that they no longer protect the Emperor and the Last Dragonborn is just some random person instead of the leader of a vast Empire, dragon slayers is the only distinction and purpose they have anymore. The Last Dragonborn isn't the Blades' leader, they're the just the their prop for legitimacy. They see you sparing Paarthurax as a betrayal to their "mission", and so they reject you.

I hope that dragon takes you all to Sovngarde!

• Uhhh, Nords being what and who they are, wouldn't this be construed among them as a nice thing to say? Sovngarde after all is the location of the Hall of Valour, the Aedric equivalent of Valhalla within the world of Elder Scrolls. Reaching there is an indication of badassery and an implication of an ecstatic afterlife of fighting and feasting. It's like a Muslim or a Jew saying to someone they don't like "I hope you go to Heaven!". Surely Hadvar, as a Nord himself, would know how this sounds, right?
  • Something to remember is that a LOT of the Imperials and Stormcloaks don't exactly bear ill will towards each other. They're on opposite sides of the war, yes, but some of them (Rikke/Galmar and Ulfric being a prime example) were close friends and allies before. Perhaps Hadvar is essentially wishing them a good death because, while Ralof is a stormcloak, they may be at the least familiar with each other. After all, Hadvar's uncle and Ralof's family both come from the same village.
  • You have to remember there are approximately five tons of death and destruction incarnate flying above their heads at the moment, Hadvar doesn't really have the time or the mentality to calmly consider his words, so he just blurted out the very first thing that came to his head. Besides, where else would Alduin take them? If the Stormcloaks died fighting a bigass dragon who was destined to end the world, they would definitely qualify for Sovngarde. Lastly, Hadvar and Ralof may hate each other, but they're still nords. Olaf and Svaknir were bitter enemies, but the former still hoped to see the latter in the Great Hall.
  • You're acting like they're sitting in a debate hall discussing carefully-considered arguments. They're not. They're in the middle of a giant battle with a rampaging monster straight out of myth killing everyone nearby. Hadvar is just shouting a phrase meaning "I hope that thing kills you!"in the heat of the moment, and it's not like similar statements aren't used in real life. "May God have mercy on you" or "Make your peace with God" are recognized taunts toward people about to die.
  • Yes, but the implication of "May God have mercy on you" is usually that God will not in fact have mercy on you by virtue of your actions being unforgivable. It's basically another way of saying you're going to hell. "I hope that Dragon takes you all to Sovngarde" doesn't have that same connotation to me. Hadvar is basically wishing on Ralof every Nord's dream - to die fighting a mighty foe and go to Shor. In any case, factoring in this worldview isn't something that Hadvar should need to consciously consider anyway as it's not an advanced, complex piece of information - the concept of glory in death would be a fairly simple and fundamental religious and cultural concept that most Nords are inculcated with at a young age. Of course, Hadvar is Imperial-leaning, and doubtless has likely had his worldview corrupted by soft Cyrodiilic nonsense...
  • True, but there's a giant, five ton, flying, fire-breathing monster ripped straight out of mythology currently burning everything down around them and picking them off one by one. He's panicking so he's going to say whatever's on his mind. Given the context, he was basically wishing for Ralof and the other Stormcloaks to die a horrible death to Alduin. He probably didn't care how it sounded; he just wanted to get out of Helgen alive.

Where was the Dragonborn actually born?

• All dialogue in the game indicates that the Dragonborn was certainly not born in Skyrim, or in their race's respective homeland, it seems (regardless of what race they actually are). So... where the heck in Tamriel are they actually from?
  • This was arguably done as one of the many ways to show how Ralof and Hadvar are similar to one another - during the cart ride, Ralof mentions that a Nord's last thoughts should be of home to Lokir, a Nord, but he never makes any comments to the player about their race (obviously because they haven't chosen said race). When Hadvar comments on your race, on the other hand, he's not so much talking about where you're from, but rather, where your race would consider their homeland.

Being Dovahkiin

10th Divine?

• Considering all that your player character has done, would it be possible - nay, inevitable - that they would go the way of Tiber Septim and become the Tenth Divine?
  • Well, to start with, becoming the "tenth" Divine would demand a complete change to the religion of the Empire and elves in the first place so that there would be ten of them. The elves already reject the idea of the Nine Divines because of their hatred for Lorkhan/Talos. Being a powerful being doesn't automatically make one a Divine.
  • Secondly, if one wanted to be a god in the Elder Scrolls universe, they would need to ascend to that position, and that's no mean feat. Just doing great deeds and amassing power alone will not make someone a god. All of the gods we know of who definitely ascended from a mortal did not do so solely through power but through exploiting artifacts or tools of other gods. Tiber Septim achieved CHIM and mantled Lorkhan, effectively taking his place through emulating him so well that he became the god and stepped into his place in the mythos. The Tribunal became gods by using the Heart of Lorkhan to break reality and fuse together two different timelines, one in which they were always gods, to give themselves divine powers. Even then, they weren't truly gods like the Aedra or Daedric Princes. The only case of a mortal becoming a Daedric Prince came about because Sheogorath/Jyggalag's unusual dual nature allowed the Champion of Cyrodiil to take up one half of that mantle. So, I would say it is very unlikely that the Dragonborn would become a god, as that would require either achieving the transcendent mental state of CHIM, coming across some piece of an existing god, or taking up the power of a willing god. Sheer mortal strength or magical knowledge just won't cut it.