Headscratchers / The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim 6

• The Main Quest, Dragons and being Dovahkiin
• Major questlines: Companions, College of Winterhold, Thieves' Guild, Civil War
• Other side quests
• The Aedra, Daedra, creatures and people encountered
• The Thu'um and Magic
• The DLCs: Dawnguard, Hearthfire and Dragonborn
• Lore and History of the Elder Scrolls (you are here)
• The meta: questions about gameplay mechanics

Hold Guards

• What the heck happens to hold troops when it is seized by the other side? like when The Rift is occupied by imperials what happens to the Rift guards?
  • Many of the Hold's Guard are likely killed fighting the Stormcloaks/Imperials, and the survivors are either disbanded, integrated into the Imperial/Stormcloak troops who have taken over the Hold, or scatter, either becoming bandits or joining the Imperial/Stormcloak guerrillas.
  • If the hold guards are more like police, they probably aren't treated like PoWs. Chances are, the guard is disbanded and an occupation force comes in. Some reaffirm that they are loyal to the city and not the cause and just get a uniform change, others just return to their families and find a new job, while some of the most devoted members likely pack, say their goodbyes, and "go on a vacation" to the nearest Stormcloak/Imperial encampment's recruiter.
  • Pretty much the exact same thing that would have happened historically: once the city surrenders, the guard changes their uniform and continues to protect the city, only now under the new management. The vast majority of the guards are just that: soldiers loyal to that Hold. The hardliners will likely pack up and join the armies of whoever previously held the Hold, but the majority of the guardsmen will be allowed to keep their arms and continue to serve their homes and families as the Hold's security force. Guards who are more strongly aligned with the Empire or the Stormcloaks would likely have already turned in their uniforms and arms and went off to join either side.
  • Exactly what they said. Basically, they don't care about "causes", they're there to protect their friends and family. That's all. Invaders are fought whether they agree or not, because it's their job. Punch-Clock Villain basically.

"It's almost like they knew we were coming."

• If you side with Ralof at the beginning of the game, and follow him to his home, he mentions how the ambush that caught him and Ulfric was suspicious. "It's almost like they knew we were coming." Is it ever made clear how exactly the Imperials knew where Ulfric was going to be? Or are we left to assume it was probably just some spy?
  • That or the Imperials are just that good.
  • Tullius apparently set up the entire ambush. He's explicitly described as a military genius.
  • You sort of do have to know the enemy is coming in order to ambush them...
    • Armies have these things called "Scouts" and "Spies" whose job is to figure out such things.
    • Indeed, I wonder if these "scouts" or "spies" could have discovered Ulfric's forces' movements and told Tullius so he could prepare an ambush... Almost as though he knew they were coming...
  • A more pressing question, we are told the ambush took place in Pale Pass, which, if you remember Oblivion, is a Pass that links Cyrodiil to Skyrim. Why was Ulfric heading to Cyrodiil?
    • Ulfric may have been trying to block the pass to prevent reinforcements from Cyrodiil from reaching Falkreath and working their way west to Markarth or north past Whiterun.
    • With the pass in Falkreath hold, he'd be stuck fighting on both sides if that was the plan. Hardly a winning move to go do a blockade, in person, with a tiny token force.
    • Even with a small token force he could effectively block off the Pass to marching troops, perhaps launching an ambush of his own.
    • The man is a master of the shout that allows you to shove things around. A single pass is the main route between Cyrodiil and Skyrim. A pass, by definition, is framed by mountains. Avalanches are famous for blocking paths, and are sometimes caused just by shouting really loudly. What do you think would happen if, instead of shouting at the pass, Ulfric went in and started Shouting at the pass?

Where was the Ambush?

• It's stated that the Imperial caught you crossing the border into skyrim and you get caught up in a fight between the Stormcloaks and Imperials, but it's stated by Ralof that they were ambushed near dark water crossing which is no where near the border to any other province. How then do they think you were crossing the border? Unless there was another skirmish somewhere else closer to the border that is not mentioned this makes for a serious case of Fridge Logic
  • The closest area to the border would be toward the southwest of Darkwater Crossing. We don't really know the actual details of the ambush; it is entirely possible that the ambush occurred near Darkwater Crossing but the Imperials had to chase down Ulfric for a bit, and he fled toward the border and the player was snatched up then.
  • Very possibly Ulfric and company were fleeing to the Rift Stormcloak camp, but took a wrong turn (fleeing doesn't really give you an opportunity to get your bearings after all) and went further south, as the player enters Skyrim heading northward from the Autumnwatch Tower area (note the Rift Imperial camp is close to there). Still, it doesn't make much sense, because Darkwater Crossing is IN EASTMARCH and nowhere near the border. The ambush occurring somewhere like Treva's Watch would have made more sense - maybe Ulfric had gone down to check the security of their position in the Rift or something, though it's never made clear why Ulfric left Windhelm in the first place.
  • Come to think of it, we were approaching Helgen from the south - if we were coming from anywhere in the vicinity of Darkwater Crossing the we should be coming from the east. You can't even get on the south road without first going past Helgen!
    • Hadvar mentions that they were originally taking Ulfric to Cyrodiil to face trial in the Imperial City before turning around and heading back to Helgen. Even he seems confused as to why, though.
    • This bugged me so much that i loaded up and explored the region. The pass to Cyrodil was all manner of messed up. Snow mounds and boulders clutter the road making cart travel all but impossible. The pass itself seems to be in a state of perpetual blizzard, so marching the prisoners through it on foot would be suicide for them and the guards.
    • The area's designed to keep you from leaving the map, not to look lore-accurate.
    • Wrong. There's a archway into Morrowind with an invisible wall preventing you from going through it, and terrain over on the other side. Perhaps a cut DLC would have made use of it, though.
    • There's a lot of confusion about this, all of which is caused by vague and misleading dialogue. Let's connect the dots. Hadvar's dialogue says you came from Cyrodiil. Ralof says he and the others were captured at Darkwater Crossing, two days before you. He says that you were trying to cross the border. Not the Rift border, since you've never been to Skyrim (you are treated everywhere as a newcomer, and there are no places already discovered on your map), so it must be the Skyrim-Cyrodiil border. He also says that Tullius was on his way to the Imperial City when he turned around and headed back to Helgen. Notice how in the opening sequence you're on the road South of Helgen, the same one that leads to Pale Pass. You were captured around Pale Pass, which was then blocked off by an avalanche after Alduin's meteor storm attack in Helgen. Your capture and Ulfric's capture were two separate, unrelated incidents. "Walked right into that Imperial ambush. Just like us, and that thief over there." Ralof probably means that you were captured by the Imperials, just like him, not that you were captured at the same time and place. See Crossing the Border below for a similar answer.
    • Not OP here: Indeed, I simply assumed that (Imperials being bureaucratic and all) since Ulfric had recently been captured and there was an execution being organized, anyone and anything out of sorts nearby was going to get caught up. If the player had been involved with Ulfric's rebellion, instead of Ralof, it would just have been an Imperial officer spelling things out.

Ysgramor looks different

• Bit of a minor thing, but did anyone else notice how incredibly different the spirit of Ysgramor seems in sovengarde from the ridiculously Badass statue from the loading screens. Why?
  • One is a statue. One is the real person.
    • To underline the above: Ysgramor lived in the late Merethic Era. Skyrim takes place nearly four and a half millenia since the Merethic Era. Since Sovngarde isn't a place living people generally get to visit, why would the Nords have a good idea about how Ysgramor looked?
    • One of the in-game books illustrates it. Basically, a battle commander visited Sovgngarde, and the visit instilled him with the words to rally his troops. So, add the two together.
  • All things considered they looked fairly similar to me.
  • And history and historical figures don't always look like famous statues or images portray them. Just for a real-life analogy, compare the famous painting of Washington Crossing the Delaware with the actual facts. The painting and the real event only vaguely resemble each other. Time made the event more legendary than it really was.
  • A good example of this is also Cleopatra, according to bards and brownosers she was supposed to be this legendarly beautiful woman, but by the actual historical accounts (scholars and learned men, not bards and brownosers) she actually had quite strong harder features, like a hook nose and promenant chin. she might have still been a looker but nowhere near as she is depicted in paintings and stories. probably something to do with coming from a royal religion that practiced incest.

Coinage

• All gold coins still bear the face of Tiber Septim on the coin, even though the Septim dynasty is over with. Even the coins found laying about in ancient nordic ruins that haven't been occupied since before Tiber's time have his face on them.
  • The game probably just uses the Septim design because it's the standard currency of the realm. Inventory would probably get a bit clunky if one's gold was seperated into "Imperial Septims", "Draconic currency", and lord knows what else. It would also beg the question of the legitimacy of the currency, exchange rates, the "collector's value" both in-universe and out... better to just use the most common design as the default image. It's not like every piece of iron armour across the land is perfectly identical either.
  • On the same note, the Falmer that you loot almost always carry Septims. Why? If their goal is to destroy the surface culture, then they certainly wouldn't want to trade with it. What use could they possibly have for surface currency?
    • Maybe they're going by the logic of "If we keep their money, they can't use it against us"? Not the most likely tactic for Falmer, I know, but hurting the economy is one way to destroy the surface world.
    • Normally I'd guess that they like shiny objects, but falmer are blind. Maybe they like the sound of coins jingling.
    • I'd guess the Falmer like them because they're made of gold. It's not their face value, but their material value that makes Imperial Septims so appealing to them.
    • The Falmer are blind monster people, the only things they know the feel of is Dwemer metal and Chaurus chitin. They probably loot septims because it's something new and they like the feel of them.
    • In Blackreach, you can find Falmer servants who are members of other races that appear to have been captured and brainwashed into serving them. It's plausible that the Falmer give them the gold so that they can go up to the surface to get supplies and such. Of course, this raises the question of why the Falmer don't have their servants buy them some weaponry and armor.
    • I figured they were supposed to be Dwarven coins that the Falmer had looted from the ruins they live in/around (this goes with the theory that there are many kinds of gold coins, and they're just displayed as Septims for convenience). As for why, the Falmer are just mutant Elves, still intelligent enough to craft tools and build a social structure. They could have an economy within their communities, or could see the coins as potentially useful scrap metal.
  • Though worship of Talos is outlawed, Tiber Septim is still held in high regard; the Mede dynasty rules by saying that it's still the same empire that he built and that his family ruled. Replacing the coin would probably be a very unpopular move.
  • It's been over 200 years since George Washington was president, but we still have his face on the $1 bill. It can be both in the memory of the Septims (they did help close the Oblivion gates after all) and not wanting to mint a ton of fresh coins every time an emperor croaks (which seems to happen quite a bit)
    • Granted, that's pretty much what the Romans did.
    • Look at British coinage, it still has latin inscriptions, over 1600 years after the Romans left in 410 AD. Until the 1970's the British penny was still labelled with the letter d that stood for denarii. The continuation of the Septim being minted is likely done for the same reasons, the Empire are sticklers for tradition and thats the way their coins have always been.
  • The coins found in the ruins are a case of Gameplay and Story Segregation. Since 'The Elder Scrols III Morrowind' had Dwarven currency, who aren't even around anymore, I guess a lot of players didn't like having to do currency exchanges whenever they loot ruins.

Non-addictive drugs

• Why is none of the drugs in game have harmful side effects in this version. In fact, shooting up all three drugs in potion form gives a nice buff to all 3 stats (health, stamina and magicka). Kind of counteracts the whole Drugs Are Bad that is with Skooma.
  • With the removal of old attributes, there is nothing that drugs could logically drain (except maybe magicka). Still, they could've implemented some sort of addiction or "comedown" from drugs.
  • Simple, draining certain skills for a period of time and if you are unlucky, permanent skill damage
  • Or you know in the Misc. Obj. Helping Hand in Riften? You give a healing potion to the Argonian to help cure her addiction to skooma, and the PC quaffs those things like no tomorrow, ergo no addictions/crippling comedowns for you.
  • This troper always thought that the lack of negative effects made the player treat it in a more addictive fashion. Admit it, you've pickpocketed/stolen/killed for those lovely health potions, and now you'll want to do it for Skooma, too.
  • Not everyone gets addicted. Contrary to popular belief, there are people who can smoke for years and stop all at once, literally without even noticing they've done it (I did it a few times in college). There are certainly addictive personalities and body chemistries, so there are obviously non-addictive versions of the same, you just don't hear about them much. Also, some drugs have higher addiction rates than others, so maybe the drugs we meet don't have super high addiction rates (and even if they do, to use the cigarette example, nicotine is one of THE most addictive things, and a lucky few still feel no ill effects). QED: maybe the Dragonborn doesn't have the addictive body chemistry, or maybe the addicts we meet are at a particularly low addiction threshold.
    • The game that introduced Skooma made clear that it is quite addictive. Of course, it is also indicated that a simple potion wouldn't help beating the addiction, so all that might have been retconned away.
    • Either that or better healing potions have been invented since then.
    • This. A sidequest in Oblivion had you get ingredients for a Khajiit mage who was searching for a cure for skooma addiction. Maybe he succeeded in the intervening years and the cure became common knowledge. Note that an Argonian you meet in Riften can be cured of skooma addiction with a basic healing potion.
    • That having been said, it would appear that this treatment isn't 100% effective. On the way to Blackreach, you run across a Khajiit whose brother was trying to wean him off his skooma addiction, but he went mad with withdrawal after they were trapped in a cave by a storm, and ended up killing several people. They had several healing potions on them, so if that was an instant cure, it seems like that wouldn't have been an issue.
    • It could be that the health potion you give her doesn't help in beating the actual addiction at all, but rather simply eases the withdrawal symptoms.
    • it could be that it's addictive in a meta way. Since you receive (as a player) no negative effects, you'll continue using a substance that is thought of as bad.
    • Skyrim Skooma is watered down to all hell. It's like snorting a bottle of baby powder with a pinch of cocaine in it.
  • It's possible that the Dohvahkiin doesn't get addicted or suffer withdrawls because of their being, well, the Dohvahkiin. Their unique state of being (a mortal container for a Dragon's soul) endows them with some degree of preternatural resistance to afflictions that impact mortals (thus illnesses only being a minor concern to them, rather than debilitating afflictions). Dragons may not get drunk or suffer drug addictins the same either.

Contradictions with the Burning of Olaf Festival

• Self contraction here. during your introduction to the bard's college, you have to reinstate a festival celebrating the brutal execution of an ancient nord tyrant. That story is backed up by the cave with the Bard ghost where you find Olafs lost verse. according to said passage, the guy was ten different kinds of douchebag. BUT the loading screen calls olaf a hero, since he is the guy from castle dragonreach's name origin. and to top it all off, You meet him in the hall of Valor in Sovengarde! (Nord Heaven) what gives?
  • You don't have to be nice to go to Sovengarde, just die in combat or some kind which is implied to include execution (die by another's weapon). And remember this isn't a Black and White game, characters can be both good and bad, just like a lot of real life historical figures. He was a hero who saved people from a dragon, and a dick tyrant. Being the former does not prevent one from being the latter.
  • Let me get this straight. As long as you die in honorable battle, you go to heaven? What if you had the battle ethic of a nord, and spent your spare time as a mass murdering, child molesting, universally hated villain? Would you still go to sovengarde when you died just to provide one for the good nordic heroes with an enemy to play at war with and keep their skills sharp?
    • Yes. In case you didn't notice, Skyrim is built around real-life Nordic mythology, which pretty much allowed exactly that.
    • You don't go to heaven, you go to Sovngarde. There's a difference. Sovngarde is where Nord warriors who bravely die in battle go.
    • That, or the book was a lie. Considering the type of things that were filled into the crossed out parts, it seems that Olaf's legend has been somewhat twisted by the ages. People apparently love to hear how Olaf never really caught the dragon, even though Paarthurnax confirmed that he did.
    • One of the books (Olaf and the Dragon) that calls Olaf a fraud is actually wrong. It posits that Numinex was old and dying and that's how Olaf caught him (essentially capturing a crippled, almost senile Dragon). Yet Paarthurnax confirms Dragons do not age (in fact, the very existence of Dragonrend confirms this). Also, only Solitude remembers Olaf as a villain. It may be a case of him being an "enemy" (since he conquered them) and being demonized by the locals.
    • If you read Kodlak's journal after completing the Companion's questline, you'll read about a dream he had where he met Ysgramor at the Hall of Valor, and asked the great founder of the Companions what he should do in war because he felt fear. Ysgramor's answer?
    Remember this. You are judged not by how you live, but by how you die.
    • Even Miraak probably could've gone to Sovngarde, if you didn't eat his soul.
    • Also, remember that this is the TES lore. MANY things are intentionally contradictory. 'Tis the nature of history.
    • Note that the book Olaf and the Dragon is a scholary discussion of the legend, and the author mentions the Solitude bard's version, that Olaf captured a crippled, senile dragon. The author also mentions that there are many variations on the legend, though almost all versions agree on the main points: Olaf and Numinex fight, Olaf wins, Olaf and his Badass Crew transport Numinex somehow to Whiterun and Dragonsreach is built to imprison him. The author lampshades the fact that legends are influenced by their writers, and cheerfully ends by saying that the best way to find out is to experience it for yourself, draw your own conclusions, and have fun.
  • It should be noted that Ragnar the Red is called a hero in a song that portrays him as a douche and treats his being decapitated as a happy ending. "Hero" clearly means a powerful warrior in Skyrim, with no connotation of being good or bad.
    • Or ya know, the song is being sarcastic.
  • Buring of King Olaf is not the recreation of his execution but simply a demonstration of displeasure. King Olaf has been entombed in the lavish crypt as many other respected kings and jarls, so one can assume that he died of natural causes (including death on a battlefield that pretty natural for Nords). Furthermore, it is perfectly possible that there was some bad blood between Olaf (jarl of Whiterun) and Solitude that inspired Svaknir to defame unpopular king.
  • During the quest for the college you have to fight Olaf in Draugr form. Aren't Draugrs all dragon worshippers, who cling to the mortal plane through ancient magics? If that is that case how can there both be a Draugr Olaf and a Sovengarde Olaf?
    • It is very likely that being a dragon worshipper is not only one way to become a Draugr. After all, the Solstheim Draugr had an entirely different origin story given, and one Skaal mage managed to become a Draugr (a somewhat lich-like one, in that he kept his mind) through powerful magic for a purpose wholly separate from dragons. As to how there can be both a Draugr Olaf and a Sovngarde Olaf... perhaps the general Draugr doesn't have the spirit of the body it rose from, merely an echo of it? Most Draugr, including Draugr-Olaf, doesn't seem to be fully sapient beings...
    • Excuse my question - but I do not remember fighting a Draugr Olaf during the College quest line, less so one who is implied to be King Olaf. Nor do the two Elder Scrolls wikis mention an Olaf in any of the quests.
    • You're not looking hard enough. To clear any confusion, he appears in the questline for the Bard's College, not the College of Winterhold.
  • One culture's hero is another culture's tyrant. The actions of historical figures are often morally complex and open to multiple moral interpretations. This shows up in a number of places throughout TES lore: Ysgramor was a bold hero of the ancient Nords who defended the early Nord settlers from the hostilities of the native Snow Elves, but also waged and outright genocidal war again said Snow Elves that drove them to near-extinction and wiped out any traces of their culture he came across. Pelinal Whitestrake was a legendary hero of mankind who fought alongside Saint Alessia to free humanity from bondage under the Ayleids, but he was also an out-of-control, racist berserker who often killed friend and foe alike. Almost none of the great heroes of Tamriellic legend are wholly good, and whether they're heroes or monsters depends largely on which side of the conflict you were on.
  • Another possibility is that Olaf was a great NORD, but a TERRIBLE king. The kind who was a war hero, dragon vanquisher, all around badass Nord... But also a terrible king. As an analogue in the real world, someone like Tsar Ivan IV (Ivan the Terrible), or King Richard I (Richard the Lionheart). Great warriors and leaders in battle, but their reigns were... Less successful and often led to many people disliking their leadership.

Everyone has lockpicks!

• Why does everyone have lockpicks? From feeble old ladies to captains of industry, virtually everyone has a lockpick on their person, in their chests or cupboards, or somewhere else in their house. Is everyone that afraid of locking themselves out of things?
  • Well, loss of items through pickpocketing certainly isn't uncommon, especially when that mysterious traveller guy decked in armour makes his rounds in town. Realistically though, it's possible that the frequency of finding lockpicks was increased in order to help avoiding a situation where the player runs out of them early on. It was a totally possible occurrence to first-time players of Oblivion who hadn't yet become acquainted with the Thieves Guild.
  • It could also be that the things the player character identifies as "lockpicks" are in reality a tonne of different things (hair clips, pins, scrap metal, etc.) which are simply all represented as proper-looking lockpicks in the inventory for the sake of convenience, much like the gold septims mentioned above. This would also explain why the damn things break so easily if half of them are really just pointy bits of metal you found.
    • Further supported by the in-game book, "Advances in Lockpicking". The author notes carrying several different things, like pre-bent lockpicks and malleable copper for picks.
    • That, good sir (or madam) is pure Brilliance de Fridgé. I vote for Main Page.
    • This is supported by The Wolf Queene, Vol.1, where raises your lockpicking skill. In that book, Potema is depicted picking a lock using the pin of a ruby brooch. And again, it's perception... the common man sees a hair clip... a thief sees a lockpick.
  • They're fairly simple long, flat tools. They probably have a dozen uses to someone who isn't a thief or adventurer, and any smith would have a pile of them lying around their workshop.
  • And why is it that as a Master Smith, you are incapable of forging lockpicks yourself?
    • This has no answer beyond gameplay reasons.
    • Arguably you just figured you could use anything you picked up and decided not to bother wasting valuable iron on something so easily found.
    • I think the troper above was pointing out that smiths would have many long flat tools which would act as lockpicks, not that smiths literally forge lockpicks.

Lunar phases

• In Skyrim, there is no correlation at all between the lunar phase of the two moons and their position relative to the sun in the sky. It's possible to see one moon as a sickle, but with the sun at the wrong side! This isn't just a simple plot hole, it's a physical impossibility.
  • There is a book in the game explaining celestial oddities, like stars being visible through the moons' rims at times. I can't remember what the explanation was, but I expect that the moons are actual immaterial magical reflections, or something to that effect.
  • The moons are the remains of Lorkhan's body. They probably emit their own light.
  • The moons are rotting remains of Lorkhan's body. You can see stars through them and the sun doesn't match the dark bits because the dark bits are where his body is rotted away.
    • Yes, this does mean his body periodically rots and regrows. 'tis how gods roll.
  • The Sun and stars are holes punched into the fabric of space, not actual celestial bodies. They don't have to make sense in context of the moon, especially with the above.
    • To clarify that - and at the same time make it more confusing, much like every additional piece of lore - every object seen in the sky is related to et'Ada. The sun and stars are holes into Aetherius courtesy of Magnus (the sun) and the Magna-Ge (the stars), the moons are Lorkhan's "flesh-divinity", and the planets are named after and associated with the Divines. The planets are simultaneously celestial bodies, planes of existence, and the actual Divines themselves. AKA the planet Akatosh is a planet, plane, and Akatosh him/itself.

High Rock's politics

• What's the political environment in High Rock like? Since the Oblivion crisis every other province has seceded from the empire except there and Skyrim. If Skyrim does break free from the empire, is High Rock likely to follow suit, deciding the Empire has no power left and has no reason to remain aligned with it?
  • Morrowind is still a part of the Empire (oh, reduced, of course, but what is left of it is a part of the Empire). As for the political enviroment of High Rock... I am not certain I understand the headscratcher about it? The Civil War is still undecided when the game starts, and a Stormcloak victory would not instantly cause High Rock's kingdoms to decide on a course, so why would it play a part in Skyrim? A High Rock secession is rather likely if the Stormcloaks win, for the very simple reason that Cyrodiil doesn't have a border to High Rock.
  • According to the Lore, Morrowind is not part of the Empire anymore. Part of Morrowind was wiped out by a volcanic eruption; the rest of it was conquered by the Argonians (who are also not part of the Empire at this point). At the beginning of the game, the Empire consists only of High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil.
    • Inaccurate: there are multiple indications of parts of Morrowind being inhabited by Dunmer and not under Argonian control.
    • New lore from the Dragonborn DLC shows that the Dunmer do in fact still hold Morrowind (they have a new capital at Blacklight and House Redoran fought and held northern and western Morrowind against the Argonians) but is hazy about the extent of territorial exchange between Morrowind and Black Marsh following the Argonian invasion. Mournhold however is being rebuilt after having been sacked by the Argonians and House Dres (the House most well-known for Argonian slavery and has most of its holdings in southern Morrowind) is still active and retains its Great House status. So it could be assumed that the Argonians just ransacked much of Morrowind then retreated to Black Marsh after their revenge was done and stiff resistance put up against them. However, the new Redoran-led Morrowind is definitely unfriendly to the Empire (seceded in spirit if not in word), as they're still bummed about being abandoned during and after the Oblivion Crisis by Cyrodill and have taken their anger out on Imperial-affiliated House Hlaalu.
    • Aye. It's kind of a shame that you didn't get the option of helping out the Hlaalu instead of being forced to help the Redoran during the game. It would've made sense for an Imperial-aligned character to try and bring the Empire's old allies back into power in some small way, at least. Or there should've been a way to strengthen relations between the Empire and Redoran.//

Morrowind is still nominally part of the Empire, in any case, and they lent what strength they could during the Great War alongside Hammerfell, Skyrim, and High Rock. The problem was that the majority of their standing forces were obliterated during the Red Year and subsequent war with the Argonians, which meant that just about every corner of the province was decimated in some way or another(even the Redoran, IIRC, suffered heavy casualties despite their ultimate victory). The province's rebuilding seems to be a recent development that started between the end of the Great War and the start of the game proper, otherwise the Nords giving the Dunmer Solstheim was just a waste of time for both parties involved. And even if the mainland is recovering, the only people who appear to still be living on Vvardenfell(which constituted close to half of Morrowind's landmass) are the Telvanni, and that's because Vvardenfell is their only territory. Vivec's still a submerged crater, Ald'Ruhn was still burned to the ground by the Daedra, and the rest of the island(including the only other major population center on it, Balmora) was destroyed by the eruption of Red Mountain. So while things appear to be looking up for the Dunmer...they've still got a long way to go.

• High Rock's politics are very complicated. This is evidenced by Hadvar commenting on your race (if you're a Breton, the natives of High Rock) and musing whether or not you're running away from some political intrigue. Not to mention the Illiac Bay war between three different warlords during the events of Daggerfall

"Disrespect the law and you disrespect me."

• Shouldn't that be the other way around? I mean, wouldn't it be a bigger deal to disrespect the law in general than to just disrespect one guard?
  • If you disrespect the law, you disrespect the guard in his position as a lawman. Disrespecting the guard as a person does not necessarily indicate disrespecting his position as a lawman, however, so why should it be the other way around? It is a bigger deal to disrespect the law than one guard, but that doesn't change which of the two better indicates the other.
  • Also: the law — as an abstract force — doesn't have a weapon. The guard does. The implication — especially in an honor-bound culture like Skyrim where such personal disrespect is taken seriously — is "disrespect the law, and I will hurt you."
    • I just assumed that the guards were trying to sprout a smart line and got it wrong.
    • That's always a possibility, considering "We have a nickname for people who mess with the guards in this city: suicide."
  • Simply put, the guard is saying that if you disrespect the law: It's Personal.

Pelagius III's deathbed laws

• So, Emperor Pelagius III outlawed dying while on his deathbed. Did anyone ever get around to repealing that? Can people still be charged for dying? Does this mean Draugrs and Liches are breaking the law?
  • Pelagius III, on his deathbed, was not in power. Empress Katariah (his wife) was given regency during his life . He died the same year, and she became Empress Katariah I (See Brief History of the Empire Vol 2). Even before that, The Madness of Pelagius point out that Pelagius almost never "ruled", the Elder Council and Katariah ruled in his stead even before she became regent.
  • That's too bad. I was hoping to run through the tombs screaming "STOP RIGHT THERE, CRIMINAL SCUM!" at the undead.

How is the Dominion so damn powerful?

• They've subjugated the Empire, and are basically winning or tieing with all the other realms. What gives it such military strength?
  • They don't have a whole lot of military strength, but they more or less waged a blitzkrieg. When the Imperial City was recovered, the Empire had lost a lot of men, morale was dropping, the city was sacked, etc. he decided to end the war in the Thalmor's favor. A close real life example is the Tet Offensive during the Vietnam War. Although we won the battle and took back Saigon, it managed to sway public opinion enough to wind down US involvement.
    • Not my intention to add to the Vietnam conflict reference, but there is an eccentric . . . "aspect" to consider. iirc, in one of the lore histories of the Ayelids aren't they denoted as direct descendants/creations of the Aedra and thus dubbed the original inhabitants of Nirn. As such I always got the impression that the Dominion's power and tenacity literally came from their prescence. They were far more familiar with the magics of Nirn, they probably for a time thought nothing of the use of magic. Anyway, it would seem they are in a stale mate in more ways than one. They probably have the resources to become an annihilating plague to any one race/culture, but there's really no time (or sense) in a tactic like that, and on the other hand even if the majority of races band together, they can't exactly reach every aspect of the Dominion, what with, I assume, the abilities of the Psijics. As a last "cop out caveat" I'm pretty sure if the Dominion decided to pull out all the stops, the Daedra would likely find an excuse to be released as well. This "powerfulness" of the Dominion is actually evident two-fold: 1)The Dominion has been around since day 1. They know the ins and outs of life on Nirn, and no second-class sentient is going to outwit them into oblivion (no pun) 2. Since it is somwhat obv the Daedra will be unleashed if they use everything at their disposal, there must be guidelines and strictures on magic power usage that isn't gotten into in-game for some reason.
  • With the Septim dynasty gone and the Medes struggling to both assert their power and gain the approval of the Elder Council, the empire was in near-complete disarray following the Oblivion Crisis, which was only exacerbated by the destruction of Morrowind and secession of Black Marsh, among other things. The Mede dynasty probably had trouble consolidating enough of its power to have much chance of standing against the Dominion.
  • The Dominion isn't really that powerful. They fostered a coup in Valenwood that ended with them controlling it, and also seized Elswyer, but their actual power doesn't extend much farther. The Great War cost them a lot of manpower and the Empire actually gave them as good as they got; once the Empire rallied they essentially punted the Dominion armies out of Cyrodiil. Mede signed the White-Gold Concordat to give the Empire some breathing room, but he just didn't factor in the fact that Skyrim would take the ban on Talos worship so violently. It doesn't help that all of Hammerfell was "released" from Imperial control with the southern half ceded to the Dominion (and who subsequently kicked the Dominion out). The Empire is still roughly on a par with the Dominion in territory and power, though Ulfric's rebellion is sapping their resources (exactly as the Dominion prefers). The real area where the Dominion is most effective in is espionage and intelligence operations and operating from the shadows - again, note the coup they fostered in Valenwood and the Stormcloak rebellion. Militarily, they're not actually that powerful, since they couldn't maintain control over Hammerfell and the Empire drove them out of Cyrodiil.
    • They did factor in Skyrim. If you plumb into the backstory, the Talos clause was not really being enforced at first. The Empire turned a blind eye as long as they were quiet. What they didn't anticipate was how strictly the Thalmor would try to enforce that clause themselves.
  • Indications are they fought the (Cyrodiil+Skyrim+Hammerfell) Empire to the point where the Emperor believed they were losing, and agreed to the White-Gold Concordat. This was likely premature - Hammerfell fought the Thalmor off in a guerrilla war on their own terrain. The Thalmor need the Nords to kill each other because the terrain in Skyrim is just as, if not more, suited for a guerrilla war as Hammerfell's, hence the fomenting of the civil war and the Thalmor's need for it to keep going. If the Empire wins, then the Imperial Army has no further distractions from the Thalmor. If the Stormcloaks win, then the Imperial Army also has no further distractions from the Thalmor (after Solitude is taken, it would be a waste of time for Cyrodiil to try to regain Skyrim), and you now have to face a Skyrim Nord army, a warrior race fighting on treacherous home turf - the same situation as with the Redguards. Either way, the Empire need no longer send large numbers of troops northward to Skyrim, and can instead send them southward toward Valenwood and Elsweyr.
    • It is also worth noting that just because Skyrim might be independent, it doesn't mean that Skyrim is permanently going to be severed from the Empire. Negotiations could result in Skyrim allying with the Empire against the Thalmor, or eventually even rejoining the Empire, with certain adjustments to their laws. Sure, the Empire wants to avoid war with the Thalmor, but keep in mind that the Dominion ended up getting even more badly mauled by the Great War than the Empire did, and the Hammefell resistance did them no favors. Even as fractured as the Empire is, all of those nations - Hammerfell, the Empire, and Skyrim - do have the single unifying element of being enemies of the Thalmor and would cooperate against their greater foe.
  • The games notes that High King Torygg would have agreed to go with Ulfric had the man just asked. It's likely that Torygg knew that Skyrim was just a diversion for the Dominion and that they needed to cooperate to push out the Thalmor to solve the whole Talos-worship problem. Unfortunately Ulfric screwed the pooch on that one (which is unsurprising considering all signs points to him being manipulated by the Thalmor).
  • Actually no, there is precious little to say that Torygg would have agreed. He did admire Ulfric on a personal level and was willing to listen to him, but Ulfric saw was a weak little boy on the Imperial teat with no true stomach for warfare.
  • That's not true. Torygg's court wizard says that Torygg had good reasons to not declare independence, but also that he highly respected Ulfric and might have done it if Ulfric had asked him to. When Ulfric came to Solitude for what he revealed to be the Duel to the Death, Torygg's court was expecting him to do exactly that.

The "Old Gods"

• Who are the "Old Gods" the Forsworn worship and name their armour after?
  • The pantheon of Breton gods who are not the Nine Divines, even though there are some similarities. Basically, the list goes; Akatosh, Magnus, Y'ffre, Dibella, Arkay, Zenithar, Mara, Stendarr, Kynareth • Julianos, Sheor, Phynaster. If you see some members of the Divines, it's because that pantheon is basically Nordic Gods + Elven Gods. And every human pantheon aside from the Redguard one is basically derived from the Nordic one, as the Nords were basically the First Race of Men.
  • It's also tossed in at one point that they worship Daedra, but that could just be an attempt to smear what's viewed as a terrorist group. (Though there are some Daedra-worshipping Bretons living in the Reach, like the leader of the Cult of Namira. There's also the shrine to Molag Bal in the basement of the abandoned house in Markarth, but it's never made clear when it was put there or by whom.)
  • Well, they obviously revere Hagravens and the Hagravens worship the Daedric Princes. (Witches of Glenmorl)
    • Technically, that the remnants of the Glenmoril Witches still have ties to Hircine (not the Princes in general, mind. Just summoning Hircine was kind of the Glenmoril Wyrd's thing in Daggerfall) all these centuries after Daggerfall is not proof that Hagravens in general worship Daedric Princes.
    • Eh, all the same, they seem to have a monopoly on human sacrifices and other practices closely related to Daedra worship (well, at least the nastier princes such as Mehrunes Daegon or Boethia).

How many people believe the Thalmor's claims?

• The Thalmor go around taking credit for solving the Oblivion crisis. Obviously the elves want to take credit for this even if they had nothing to do with it, but how many people really believe this? Anyone in the Imperial city would have seen the dragon Martin beat up Dagon.
  • The Imperial City is very far from Summerset Isle — anybody there talking about Martin's defeat of Dagon in Summerset would have been dealt with by the Thalmor, as described in Rising Threat. Add some isolationism, accuse any witnesses you can't remove of spreading foreign propaganda, and soon, you've got the populace eating your lies.
    • Add that even when they were a part of the Empire, Summerset was rather isolationist. Even then humans were not allowed inside Alinor past the habor.
    • Also the Imperial City and Summerset being very far apart goes both ways. Martin Septim and the Champion never set foot in Summerset, because as that same book chronicles, the seas were far too stormy and dangerous to sail. Which means that no help came to the Isles, leaving the elves alone to deal with the fact that they are trapped fish in a barrel and their islands are turning into a slaughterhouse. Sure, in far-off Cyrodiil Martin was eventually responsible for the stopping of gates, but what's going to have more emotional pull for people in Summerset is what is said by the elves who fought the Daedra at home. So, assuming that the Thalmor included elves who fought Daedra in the Crisis (which is not an unreasonable assumption), there is a grain of truth to them "solving" the Oblivion Crisis, because if they hadn't resisted the Daedra until Martin did his dragon thing, Summerset would be a graveyard. Mind, this doesn't excuse them or absolve them and it is still disgusting that they are trying to erase Martin from history, but there's more to the Summerset elves' acceptance of the Thalmor party line than "Cartoonishly evil, isolatedly ignorant, and/or absolutely terrified of the ones who are cartoonishly evil."
  • It's not surprising that the people of the Dominion are "encouraged" to beleive what the Thalmor tell them, but what about the people of Skyrim? Morrowind? Hammerfell?
    • It's pretty easy to see that the various races have reached a general consensus on all things Thalmor-related.
    • Also if you were under the impression that those outside the Dominion buy the Thalmor line on the Oblivion Crisis, they don't. The book "The Oblivion Crisis" is pretty common around Skyrim and more or less tells the true story, albeit missing some parts.
  • Keep in mind that the Thalmor didn't need to keep their lie going forever, only until they'd secured enough of a hold over Alinor and its armies that they can keep control. In the immediate wake of the Oblivion Crisis they could have easily taken control by portraying themselves as the heroes, and even if the truth does come out later on, by that point all the swords and magic and fleets and money are firmly in the Thalmor's control, so just who managed to do all the legwork at stopping the Daedra becomes a moot point.

Whiterun's poor walls

• What's with the poor state of the walls of whiterun? I've seen medieval ruins in a better state than them. There are almost no places where the wall is at it's full height, even near the entrance of the city(giving any attackers an easy way to enter). The structure above the gate has completely fallen apart. And judging by the moss, it has been like this for several years, so it probably wasn't due to the stormcloak rebellion.
  • The simplest explanation is that Balgruuf just didn't put money into repairing the walls. Ulfric mentions that the Empire has been taxing Skyrim heavily after the Great War, too, and many of the fortresses throughout Skyrim have also fallen into disrepair or been taken by bandits. Balgruuf may just not have the money to fix the walls properly.
  • if skyrim is heavily taxed, then why don't you get any taxes on the house(s) you own?
    • If you have finished the Civil War, the taxes may be waived in view of your actions and the fact that you don't actually get a salary for your government position. If you haven't, on the other hand...
    • Being a Thane probably also exempts you from taxation, coupled with all the good work you've likely been doing for the Holds, on top of being the Dragonborn and eventually in deep with whoever is ruling Skyrim. Couple that with the fact that taxation will likely only apply to someone making regular income like a farmer or blacksmith, and the sheer amount of gold/goods you're injecting into everyone's economy eveerytime you sell a pile of enchanted superweapons/armor into the local economy. The Dragonborn is likely supporting a substantial part of the entire Skyrim economy through simply supplying so much high-value material, and this goes even further with a high Speech and the Investment perk. Coupled with the guilds you'll end up owning, your political, economic, military, spiritual, and personal influence would likely be so high that no one would dare tax you.
    • Almost certainly not. If anything, as a Thane it would be the player's responsibility to raise taxes for the Jarl, to raise an army for the Jarl's defense, and so on. Although Skyrim isn't necessarily feudal, it still has that "top-down" approach, but lacks a key piece: Thanes raising taxes and improving the walls, roads, etc. This is probably because, like the player, the other Thanes are out killing bandits and fighting in the civil war. Thanes likely pay enormous taxes, but we the players are spared that, because it's probably not fun to itemize everything the player owns and then pay a certain amount of gold based on that. Being a Thane is nearly a direct parallel to feudal lords, but players don't have to deal with any of the responsibilities. Because responsibilities aren't fun. We do quests for Jarls because we want a reward, not because the Jarl requires x number of quests each month, or because we need to pay x gold in taxes.
  • But this isn't just simply worn a bit. The damage is absolutely massive. An entire building is missing two of its walls and a roof. The walls before the gate have massive holes. That doesn't just hapen after a few years of disrepair.
  • As noted in the OP, the moss indicates that this damage was done a long time ago. Perhaps... 200 years ago? It's not a stretch to imagine that the major settlements of Skyrim came under siege during the Oblivion Crisis, and with the entire province in disarray after that, Whiterun's funds were probably appropriated for Skyrim as a whole. Factor in the Great War breaking out, and as the above poster noted, the high taxation that came of it, and it seems plausible that Whiterun simply never had the time or resources to fix its outer defenses.
  • I got the impression that Balgruuf and his forebearers were just being lazy about it. Whiterun has enjoyed a long period of peace and there simply wasn't the need to have the walls repaired.
    • Lazy or not, Balgruuf complains about the sorry state of the walls when the Stormcloaks are at his gates (on the Imperial side of the civil war). In addition, the walls are merely really bad, as opposed to completely ineffective (they do require the invaders to charge through a winding path), so maybe his priorities weren't completely off... still, the sort of invasion that justifies having walls happened, and having bad walls made him nervous.
  • Should be noted, Balgruuf and Avenicci have a discussion on Whiterun's economics randomly. Basically, the Civil War keeps racking up prices for supplies to the point that Whiterun is so economically depressed that they're on the verge of choosing to keep the City Guards or feed their people. Considering that Whiterun is one of the three economic centers of Skyrim, this has probably been going since long before the Civil War, and its implied the entire Empire hit a depression during and following the Great War. Add in that the first several decades of the 4th Era were filled with strife and power struggles to gain leadership of the Empire, its likely any damage caused by the Oblivion Crisis was never corrected unless it was deemed absolutely necessary (which would also explain how easily the Thalmor took over the Imperial City). By now, its necessary for Whiterun, but they're just so talos-damned poor from all the economic shennanigans they can't repair it.
  • Also there's several Giant Camps around Whiterun and some of the Jarl's court express concerns about the Giants moving near the city implying that the Giants occasionally raid Whiterun randomly. Those walls probably barely do the job when in good condition anyways.
  • In real-life Scandanavia and Anglo-Saxon England, where the society used the "Skyrim model" ( AKA Jarls/Earls, Thegns/Thanes, Huscarls/Housecarls, etc), it wasn't exactly the Jarls/Ealdormans/Earls responsibility to pay for the upkeep of the Burh/Burg (aka fortified settlement) walls. That, instead, was the responsibility of the Thegns, who were each responsible for both maintaining and manning a fortified gate in the Burh. Whiterun likely doesn't have enough Thegns to maintain the whole wall, and settles for having a decently-built gate.
  • Also, the walls approaching the gatehouse still manage to do the job they're made to do pretty well. Crumbling as they are, they still force the attackers to take a narrow route up to the gate where line infantry can hold them back and shooters on the upper walls can rain death down on the incoming army. If this was something akin to, say, a Total war game, that approach would be a monstrous killbox, simply because the attackers really couldn't invade the city from any other direction.
  • It's important to remember that the poor state of the walls is because the economy and wealth of the entire continent is in a bad place. The Fourth Era is akin to the Third Age in The Lord of the Rings: the glory and wealth of the past is long since faded, and only a show of its great power remains. Whiterun's walls are a reflection of the faded glory that it once held: battered, crumbling, and ill-maintained due to a loss of wealth and power leaving the rulers unable to repair them and having to make do with wooden palisades and watch towers to augment the sorry state of those defenses. And its no surprise that Whiterun's hit hard times, between the Oblivion Crisis, the Great War, an now the Stormcloaks, trade through Whiterun has definitely suffered.

The Shadowscales

• How did the shadowscales die out? From what oblivion told us, every argonian born under the sign of the shadow is a shadowscale. How did argonians stop being born under a starsign?
  • They didn't (though it should perhaps be noted that Morrowind implied that not everyone is born under a starsign). Remember, the Shadowscales consisted of Argonians born in Black Marsh under the Shadow and both trained and working with the Dark Brotherhood. The Dark Brotherhood that effectively collapsed outside Skyrim before the start of the game. No Dark Brotherhood in or near Black Marsh=The traditional treatment of a Shadow-born Argonian in Black Marsh is impossible=no Shadowscales... at least, not from the perspective of a traditional Shadowscale.
  • Shadowscales are still being born, but instead of being trained by the Dark Brotherhood they are raised as assassins for the An-Xileel and the Hist, the ruling party in Black Marsh.

Riverwood left unguarded

• How come Riverwood doesn't have troops stationed there in the first place, considering how there is a civil war going on?
  • Mainly because it's a backwater area with no real strategic importance to either side. Attacking it would essentially be a waste of time for both sides. A Dragon won't care about it's strategic importance, however.
    • "No real strategic importance?" It's a booming lumber mill, one kind of needs such a resource to maintain buildings.
    • Lumber mills are useful, but not absolutely critical. It would be more important if construction was ongoing, but with economic issues facing Whiterun in particular and the province as a whole, there isn't a lot of demand for lumber in the region. Also, Helgen is close enough by to protect the village through simple proximity. Up until Helgen falls, Riverwood doesn't need a garrison.
  • Also, the fortress at Helgen was a relatively short distance away, with a substantial Imperial presence. Since Riverwood is pretty much sitting between Whiterun and Helgen, it is within a relatively short distance of two large and well-equipped garrisons. Fellows of ill intent are unlikely to bother with it.
  • Balgruuf's steward Proventius Avenicci mentions that deploying troops to Riverwood would be seen as a threat by the Jarl of Falkreath. Given that Whiterun is trying to stay neutral for as long as possible that would be a very bad thing.

Why is Keening still on Tamriel?

• Unlike most artifacts, keening doesn't have an innate owner-switching ability and it is one of the most legendary artifacts associated with the nerevarine. So why didn't he/she take it with her/him to Akavir?
  • Maybe The Nerevarine took Sunder and Wraithguard instead and just didn't like shortswords. Or maybe the Nerevarine didn't take any of them and the temple took the tools, which were lost during the Argonian invasion.
  • Keening is easily carried, as well as being incredibly powerful, so it seems incredibly short-sighted to not bring it along anyway.
  • Maybe the Nerevarine came back at some point in the last 200 years and didn't tell anyone. Alternatively, given that their actions lead to Morrowind ending up as a smoldering crater, the short sighted explanation works well enough.
  • Why WOULDN'T it still be there? Powerful weapons though they may be, the last guy who used them blew his whole race up. If I were in the Nerevarine's position, I'd dump the blasted things in the lava as I flew away. It's entirely reasonable to think he left them where they wouldn't be easily obtained in case some damned fool decided to try making himself a god (poor arniel. I will summon you, and laugh)

Dagoth and the Heart of Lorkhan

• If the heart of Lorkhan survived the end of morrowind, how did Dagoth lose his powers so quickly? It took the almsivi several hundred years to really start losing notable amounts of power.
  • His connection to the heart was cut off, he lost all the power he was getting from it immediately. The Tribunal also lost whatever remained of their connection at the same time.
  • Dagoth's power was solely provided by his connection to the Heart. ALMSIVI's power was originally through the Heart, but bolstered over the course of two ages by the faith of an entire race. Their connection to the Heart was fading over time, and they apparently got pretty good at using the faith of their adherents to keep functioning as deities. So when they lost it completely, they were able to coast on faith for a while. Dagoth, on the other hand, went from having one source of power to zero.

Telvanni heirs

• How is there a telvanni heir? Or, more to the point; do the telvanni even have heirs? In morrowind, they didn't really seem like they had any form of organized government, being just a collection of uber-mages, each with their own tower. In that game, becoming the telvanni leader meant challenging the old one. So, there doesn't really seem to be any room for nobles with inherited titles.
  • Think of it as a family tradition: there is great pressure on the family's daughters and sons to join House Telvanni and excel, as their parents did, and thus they are 'heirs' in an informal if not formal manner.
  • That's supported by House Telvanni not existing anymore. The argonians destroyed it. The descendants of whoever was left would consider themselves heirs to the tradition and legacy.
    • Except it isn't actually proven that House Telvanni was destroyed by the Argonians (they certainly didn't sweep over and kill everyone). The Tenvanni journal was written during Red Year, by someone that obviously did not know all that he was talking about, as Brelyna Maryon is living proof that at least one more heir to House Telvanni survived.
    • Which was in part what confused me. I thought that meant we were to assume that Brelyna was just a member of low rank, while Brandyl was of higher rank ( a descendent of the arch-mage or a(n arch)magister)
  • Dragonborn (re)introduced Neloth. While I'm pretty sure he has a few personality complexes of his own, he does imply Telvanni (As well as the other two houses) are very much around. Though he admits being part of the house doesn't amount to much, he claims one could be considered royalty. Though he's not an altogether reliable source, especially since most of Raven Rock just can't stand him.

What's going on in Morrowind?

• In Windhelm you find a bunch of Dunmer living in poverty. After hearing about what happened to Morrowind and seeing this, I thought that the Argonian invasion and the fall of the Ministry of Truth had happened pretty recently... but I looked it up on the UESP and it turns out both events happened almost two hundred years ago. I imagine the ecosystem is stuffed because the eruption wouldn't have let the wildlife survive, but surely 200 years is more than enough time for Vvardenfell's flora to reclaim the land? And while it's understandable enough that Morrowind was so devastated by Red Mountain's eruption that it had no army to fight the Argonians with, that doesn't tell us what's going on with Morrowind two hundred years later. When you talk to one of the Dunmer in Windhelm, he implies that moving back to Morrowind IS an option, and he doesn't make any reference to an Argonian occupation making that impossible. So why are there still so many Dunmer refugees in Windhelm and Skyrim two hundred years after the event? What are the Argonians doing, is Morrowind just their territory and they've left the natives otherwise alone or are they keeping Dunmer as slaves, or what?
  • From what I gathered, the argonians basically swept over the land, destroying all major cities, killing the entire population of the house Telvanni, before retreating to the territory of house Dres. They could go back, yes, but they would need to rebuild pretty much everything, as well as being defenseless if the argonians chose to attack again.
  • what happened, and this is now CONFIRMED by Dragonborn, is this. about forty years AFTER the Oblivion Crisis, the Baar Dau crashed into Vvardenfell, causing Red Mountain to erupt and ruin most of the island, and blighting much of solstheim and the mainland. Following this, the argonians attacked the weakened province, and conquered some of Morrowind's territory. Red Mountain remains highly active (more so than in the Nevevarine's time) and as such, Vvardenfell is sparsely settled, but SOMEWHAT habitable. Solstheim and Morrowind proper are livable, but with some ash storms that used to just be Vvardenfell's problem. and house telvanni still exists

The Tsaesci

• Where did all the Tsaesci go and why are there no clear records on their appearance? Back in the first era, there were enough survivors to have a massive cultural influence, to the point where the tsaesci were the heads of the empire for four hundred years. Even if a war was waged to kill all the tsaesci, there should still be plenty of physical descriptions, as well as statues, paintings, coins and various trinkets in their form(concidering there were tsaesci heads of the empire). Hell, the symbol of the empire is still a dragon, the blades were still around in oblivion and their blades were widely found in morrowind, so any attempt to destroy their culture was clearly unsuccesful.
  • What seems to be the current in-vogue theory on Bethesda's forums is that the Akaviri invasion had only a small contingent of Tsaesci in terms of the race, and a fair number of humans that may have been culturally Tsaesci (IE, insofar as Mysterious Akavir can be trusted, the Tsaesci 'ate' the humans of Akavir in a metaphorical sense: they assimilated them into their culture). That doesn't explain all of it, but it does explain how there could be a massive cultural influence without there being all that many proper Tsaesci.
  • At the very least, we know that "true" Tsaesci were not humanoid. In History of the Fighter's Guild, it's explicitly said that Tsaesci cannot wear human armor. However, we also know that Akaviri surnames and facial features are marks of pride among the modern Imperials of Cyrodiil, which implies that humans are able to breed with the Tsaesci in some capacity. It's not clear but there are some indications that the Tsaesci did bring Akaviri humans along with them when they invaded, who would later interbreed with Tamrielic humans to produce those Imperials who would have Akaviri features and surnames. There also are "Akaviri" communities throughout Cyrodiil and it's borders, though they're Akaviri only in terms of customs and appearances. Most likely, the true snake-men Tsaesci all died out one by one, probably killed by assassins or in battle, and all that's left of the original Akaviri invaders is bloodlines with their human soldiers interbreeding with Tamriel humans.
  • Of particular note is a line mentioned in Akaviri Diary: "Last night, I encountered another one of our messengers who had been beset by a pack of mountain wolves. His leg was hurt badly, but I managed to help heal it with an ampoule of medicine I carried with me." The bolded part confirms that at least part of the Akaviri force was definitely humanoid. So it would seem that part of the force was humans and only a small part was made up of snake-men, especially as the early Fighter's guild was made up exclusively of Tsaesci and they were described as having very few numbers. The snake-men were likely leaders and officers, and Akaviri humans were the rank-and-file. This would explain why the Tsaesci died out and we don't have any good visual representations of the species: a simple lack of numbers and rarity, and they lived in a time of relative chaos following after the Potentiates died and records were destroyed.

How did Numinex die?

• In all versions of the story of Olaf, he brings the dragon back to whiterun while it was still alive. Dragons cannot die of old age, and it seems unlikely that the people killed it after spending so much time and trouble building a prison for the thing.
  • Perhaps dragons can die from losing the will to live? We know Paarthurnax visited Numinex and noted he'd gone pretty bonkers while stuck in Dragonsreach, so maybe he just... gave up one day.
    • Or, you know, he could have just committed suicide.
  • Someone probably eventually stabbed Numinex in the face and its corporeal body died.
  • Paarthunax mentions that Numinex eventually started going crazy from years in captivity. Presumably a batshit insane dragon is a little more of a pain in the ass to deal with than a regular dragon, so either Olaf or one of his descendants decided to put him out of their misery.
  • Considering a shout exists to bring a dragon back to life, and if you return the horn to Windcaller's tomb before giving it to the Greybeards you get a dragon soul, and most importantly the fact that the Greybeards can grant you their knowledge of a word much like when you get a dragon soul, it seems like it's most likely that a Dragonborn Jarl of Whiterun treated him somewhat kindly, and he wanted to die, so he granted the Jarl his soul so he could not just die but never be able to come back.
  • Uh, no, that only works because you're Dragonborn. Random Nords can't absorb dragon souls or knowledge like that even if it's voluntary. You have an Aedric soul, while theirs are mortal. None of the legends about Olaf, either as King Olaf or as Olaf One-Eye, make mention of him being Dragonborn, which would be a Big Fucking Deal and thus unlikely to be omitted.

The Argonians during the Oblivion Crisis

• How the hell did the Argonians manage to kick the Daedras ass so badly? They beat them so badly the Daedra had to close the gates because THEY were being invaded
  • The argonians knew the daedric invasion was coming thanks to their alliance with/worship of the hist, who are the oldest beings on the planet. This gave them the chance to properly prepare for the invasion, as well as having the best intelligence on anything ever at their disposal.
  • Plus, the lore establishes that Black Marsh is pretty much the deadliest environment Tamriel has to offer. Even to a race of immortal demonic super-soldiers fresh from their own version of hell, fighting the Argonians on their home turf must've been close to impossible.
  • Note that Argonia has a much larger population than you'd suspect. Many of the tribes that usually don't travel out of black marsh also bring great tactical advantages, with 'an argonian account'(which is in-universe fiction, so not entirely reliable, though one of the other tribes got mentioned in a historical source as well) suggesting at least one winged breed. Black March actually was powerful enough to hold off the empire, with 'pocket guide to the empire' suggesting large parts of it were never annexed and that the empire has no real say over any of the decisions (like black marsh deciding to take back small bits of territory lost in a war with morrowind during Oblivion) over the territories that they do claim to control. In short, the argonians probably already were one of the greatest military powers on the planet, with the main drawback of not being unified. When the Hist warned them, they finally unified.
  • If you read the "The Infernal City" one of the argonian characters mentions that they pretty much sent wave after wave of troops through the portal and through brute force and lack of caring about survival forced the daedra to close the gates.
  • Having not read the ingame book or the novel, my guess would be that Dagon himself either underestimated how much resistance Blackmarsh would offer or didn't consider it to be a high value target. Either way, this would result in him devoting a considerably smaller portion of his forces to the attack than he devoted to Cyrodiil. Also, Oblivion implied that opening oblivion gates, even without the dragon fires burning, required some form of action from Nirn to work, and that Mythic Dawn cultist had to trigger them in some way, at least initially. The Mythic Dawn likely had either a very, very small presence in Blackmarsh, or none at all, thus limiting the support Dagon would have recieved.
  • In short, it was in Black Marsh that the daedra met their perfect match. One hell-realm full of endless hordes of suicidal warriors trying to invade another.

Plate armor vs. Roman armor

• How is it that in 200 years the Empire has regressed from town guards in full plate to soldiers dressed as romans? Has the need for plate armour just magically disappeared?
  • Not enough metal to go around?
  • The imperial legions were dressed like romans at the time of Elder Scrolls IV(or at least, they were in III, which takes place only 3 years earlier). The difference, however, is that the town guards seen in Oblivion are not legionaries. The actual legions don't show up in that game for some reason. I will however note that its kind of weird that the emperors guards are also wearing roman uniforms. Plate armour requires a lot of maintenance and slows down marches considerably (especially considering horses seem to be a bit rarer in the elder scrolls universe), so its not really all that handy for the legions (One of the greatest advantages of the original romans was that their armies could move very quickly).
  • Which kind of leads to the question of why the guards from Oblivion used plate really.
  • The guards didn't need to march massive distances, just patrol around the cities a bit, and there are blacksmiths with good forge to repair and maintain the armor. The guards were, well, guards, not armies.
  • Remember that the Empire is in decline and a massive war was raging thirty years ago that ravaged the Empire. Is entirely possible that the Empire switched to a type of armor that is easier to mass-produce because of the need to quickly mobilize and outfit more soldiers with gear that is easier to maintain. Plate armor had to be custom-fitted and designed for each wearer, after all, while lorica and other Roman armors were made to be easily-fitted to large numbers of soldiers. Therefore, plate is more suitable for when you've got the discretionary funds to outfit your troops with the best of the best gear, while the Roman armor is more suitable for when you've got to outfit an army swiftly and on a budget.
  • Another thing to remember is terrain. In Skyrim, where there isn't mud there's forest, where there isn't forest there's snow, and where there isn't snow there's marshes, and where there isn't any of that there's giant fuckall huge mountains. This is not terrain suitable for large numbers of soldiers walking around in heavy plate. Dovahkiin and follower get around it by being just one person, but when you've got an army on the move, you don't want a thousand men in plate armor churning up the roads, let alone fighting.
    • The Solitude Smith comments that the first set of armor is free, but subsequent sets will be out of your own pocket. Likely Imperial Legionnaires are not given large allowances, and armor gets broken all the time. It might just be more practical to go with light leather armor, given both the terrain and cheap costs.
  • Mass-production is a hell of a lot easier with lorica-style armor than plate, which has to be individually-fitted. One of the biggest advantages the historical Roman Empire had was that all of their gear was standardized. Lorica was armor that could be easily fitted to any legionary, so they could readily manufacture large numbers of that armor without the expense of fitting it to individuals. That made it very, very useful for an army on the move; damaged components could be easily repaired and new suits could be added to stockpiles to replace damaged ones. In a similar vein, Imperial armor is cheaper and easier to manufacture, uses less expensive materials, and is lighter and easier to move in. Compare a suit of plate to a suit of Imperial heavy armor and note the difference in cost (Plate armor costs 647 septims base, while Imperial heavy armor costs only 100 base), skill level needed to build it (50 for plate with three perks, while steel is only requires one perk and no additional skill points), and ease of manufacturing (plate requiring corundum as well as a lot of steel, with Imperial armor only requiring four steel bars and some leather). Plate is better overall, but the Romanesque Imperial armor is a lot easier to supply to large numbers of infantry.
  • I would like to point out that the majority of guards in Oblivon wore chainmail. Imperial city guardsmen wore pretty sucky iron plate.
  • The Empire also has a history of changing their armor to match a particular environment. During the Blackwater War, for example, they switched from using heavy plate to lighter leather and padded jackets to better handle the heat and humidity of fighting in Black Marsh. The difference in kit for their operations in Skyrim would make sense as well, especially considering that the Stormcloaks seem to be aware of the disadvantages of fighting in full plate in their home terrain, and Stormcloak soldiers will even remark that they could hear and see Imperial troops coming from miles off. The Empire likely switched to lighter metal or leather gear specifically to make movement and stealth easier.

The Lusty Argonian Maid

• So The Lusty Argonian Maid is, essentially, a pornographic play^note albeit one that, when read, is non-graphic through Double Entendre and Sexy Discretion Shot.. How exactly would that work? Would the actors have sex in front of the audience every time it was performed? Would it not be performed and merely sold as the script? Either way, when there's no means of storing or transmitting images in-universe, the area of porn seems distinctly limited.
  • It is actually supposed to be performed, as the writer in Morrowind was looking for a group of actors to do so. Maybe they perform behind a paper back-lit screen, so only the shadows are visible? That would allow for many of the double entendres to also work visually.
    • Maybe the humor was that it was all to be literally taken and Crassius Curio was a massive troll.
    • It's all about unsubtle innuendo and double entendres, which is pretty much exactly what Roman comedies were. See also Plautus—or A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, which was directly inspired by Plautus.
  • Also, every medium has pornography, which predates the internet. And even now, with shots of ladies' vaginas in HD, "erotic novels" are selling. Fan fics are written about this like there is no tomorrow. Apparently some people prefer using their fantasies instead of only looking at graphic images (which of course existed as well). I think restricting "porn" to graphic displays is in itself severely limited.Perhaps the play in its entirety isn't actually pornographic, but rather a raunchy comedy relying heavily on double entendres for the majority of its humour.
  • Or, maybe it's porn, and the actors have sex on stage, and the audience enjoys themselves.
  • There are, in fact, plays in which sex acts are simulated onstage, typically with no concealment other than the skirt of the female partner (Spring Awakening and A Streetcar Named Desire spring to mind). If a production was mounted that chose to cut right through the double-entendre and get right on to the hot Argonian loving, it'd be less of an issue to actually perform the simulated act and more how the residents of a High-Fantasy society would react to something so scandalous (the examples this troper has given are more modern - I can't think of any examples of classic plays which simulate sex acts in full view of the audience, though honestly I would not be surprised. The Romans had a lot of fun at their theatre festivals.)
  • Elder Scrolls Online discusses this in a book. Long story short, it's not exactly a pornographic play as much as it is a sexy comedy that uses turns of phrase, innuendos, and raunchy humor to make the audience laugh. It certainly can be used for... private entertainment, but apparently it is just primarily used as a comedy that is told and played by bards in taverns rather than in on-stage productions.

  • There was years ago a musical version of the pornographic film Debbie Does Dallas, it was a...very off Broadway production, but basically all the sex scenes either got replaced with musical numbers or it worked by having actors walk off stage play stereotypical 70s porn music and then they come back in disheveled clothes and hair all mussed. Maybe that's how it works.

Khajiit in Nord cities

• Is there any explanation given why a Khajiit player character can enter the Nord cities when it was established early on that they are normally barred entry?
  • For Whiterun: Because you bring news of the Dragon Attacks. Winterhold presumably doesn't block access to Khajiit (As they let J'zargo in). The other cities... No.
  • Riften has at least once Khajiit citizen living there(ironically, the one they should have kicked out), so it would seem that the cities of Skyrim don't so much ban Khajiit from coming in as they ban Khajiit caravans from coming inside and setting up shop. Caravans are believed to be fronts for skooma trafficking(a belief that may not be too far from the mark), but a lone Khajiit adventurer would be ok.
    • Which Khajiit citizen? the only Khajiit seen in Riften (Shavari) is a Thalmor assassin and nothing says she's a citizen there (The opposite in fact, as the letter she carries seem to make her look more like she travels wherever to do covert assassinations. She also owns no house in Riften). Historically, Riften DID have Khajiit residents as one in mentioned in the original, uncensored version of "The Real Barenziah" (He takes part in the book's rather infamous sex scene and is a member of Riften's Thieves Guild).
  • It is entirely possible that the Khajiit caravaners just say that Nords are insensitive racist pricks who bar them from the cities to drum up sympathy and make more sales. Keep in mind that the caravans all carry skooma and moon sugar, which the Nords severely frown upon. It may be less of a case that all Khajiit are barred entry and more of case that those specific Khajiit were barred entry because they're carrying illegal drugs.
    • To be fair, except for M'aiq, Kesh and the Khajiit hunters in Hircine's quest, every Khajiit in Skyrim is involved in some sort of criminal activity (And as seen above, except for one, those that don't are Daedra worshipers). The caravans do smuggling, fencing, and deal in illegal substances. J'zargo openly tells you he steals stuff. Vasha openly tells you he's a murderer and terrible person, Shavari and J'datharr are Thalmor assassins. Even Ma'zaka, keeper of the Solitude Lighthouse, used to be a pirate. Generic nameless Khajiit appear as bandits and Dark Brotherhood Assassins. So blocking access to Khajiit can hardly be considered a bad move.
  • Khajiit are not barred from the cities of Skyrim. However, the Khajiit caravans are, because they are fronts for thieves and drug dealers.
    • Also, it could be a case of non-compete clauses. The caravans may have been known for undercutting the town's own merchants, which hurt the town's prosperity, so the shopkeeps petitioned the Jarls to get them out of the town proper so there's less competition.

That, or, as traveling peddlers have been known to do, they deliberately sold shoddy wares and skipped town before they got busted, and so have been banned

Fortress repairs

• Why doesn't anyone think to repair the fortresses in Skyrim? Their state of disrepair is laughable. The only damned cities that have walls that look at all strong are Windhelm and Solitude.
  • Just about all the fortresses are old places occupied by bandits, vampires, wizards, or wizard vampire bandits. Their personal resources are limited and they don't have the stone, workers, or quarries to rebuild the forts. The best they can manage is something like Fort Greymoor, where they put up a palisade along one collapsed wall. Once the Stormcloaks/Legion retake control, they too have to worry about enemy attack but lack the immediate resources to repair the damaged forts. Of the cities, most of them are either too poor to build a wall (all the villages) the terrain makes it pointless (Morthal) or is a natural defense (Winterhold, Dawnstar). Falkreath, Riverwood, and Riften have decent walls, though with the former two they are mostly just wooden walls to keep bandits out. Markarth's walls are actually pretty massive and solid, and coupled with the terrain makes it very defensible. Whiterun's outer defenses need to be repaired, but the city's primary wall is in excellent shape. You can also find a few actual forts that are in good shape overall; i.e. the fort south of Helgen, which was a Legion fort right before Helgen was attacked and then overrun by bandits.
  • Skyrim, and really most of the Empire in all likelihood, are in a state akin to Gondor or the realm of Eriador in The Lord of the Rings: a place that was once mighty and beautiful but has fallen into disrepair due to war and economic loss. Between the Oblivion Crisis, the Great War, and the Stormcloak rebellion, plus myriad other minor battles and conflicts in between, the land has fallen into lawlessness. The fortresses remain in sorry shape because no one has had the funds, manpower, or will to go out and retake them, occupy them, and repair them. The only reason the forts end up being occupied by the Stormcloaks and Imperials is because a force stronger than the militias of any one hold has mustered up the manpower and organization and will to put garrisons in those forts.

What happened to Stalhrim?

• In Bloodmoon, it's mentioned as figuring heavily in Nord Culture, being used, among other things, in ancient Nord burials and making arms and armors. It's nowhere to be seen in Skyrim. And it's not just a Solsteim thing - Books mention Nord followers of Ysgramor using the stuff to entomb their dead as a sign of respect.
  • It's been over 200 years, they probably just don't use the stuff anymore.
    • So why do none of the many ancient burials have any?
    • Would anyone bury their dead with raw smithing material?
    • According to bloodmoon, it's what the Nords did. And even then, we don't see non-raw Stalhrim either.
  • Dragonborn brings it back and its lack in the main game could go under Fridge Brilliance. (1) It's just that rare and (2) the only tool capable of removing it are ancient nord pickaxes, which were explicitly made with lost arts and very rare to boot (this troper is aware of only one the player can get). What makes it Fridge Brilliance is that it's been 200 years since even Morrowind, which included the devastation of Morrowind province and the Great War (recall the artwork lost during WW2). Put simply, the world only had a limited supply of the tools to work stalhrim and it wasn't doing a very good job of taking care of them.
    • It still doesn't explain why its found only inside Solsteim barrows, when it was supposed to be used by all the ancient Nords.
    • Stalhrim is "enchanted ice that's hard as stone". Saarthal, the only Nord ruin to feature magical locks and the site of an artifact of extreme power, was razed by elves in the Merethic era. It's possible that the vast majority of the magical talent/knowledge of ancient Nord society was wiped out at Saarthal in one fell swoop, leaving them unable to enchant more Stalhrim or create more tools capable of gathering it.
  • Stalrhim equipment can now show up in the level lists of any high-level enemy or loot in the game.

Why exactly is the area called Skyrim?

• Is it because the Throat of the World touches the sky or because of the presence of dragons in that area's ancient history?
  • Someone important enough in history named it that, and the name stuck. Like 99% of all named places in the world.
    • And who was that important person? This is never brought up in the lore?
  • Good question. You'd think people would make sure to keep the name of the person (or people) who named your country in the records. That's like not knowing who gave Canada, Mexico, the US, France or the UK to name a few...their names! Kinda dumb. My bet is on Ysgramor, who led the 500 people into Tamriel.
    • No one DOES know who named France "France". It draws its name from the Frank tribe, but no one knows who is the first to call it France. Ditto for Mexico who was named after the Mexica tribe. There's no recorded individual who "invented" the modern name for the place.
    • Not just France. Almost all of the place names in Europe, especially towns and villages, have really iffy records - we know what they mean, but who named them? Very often no clue. That's just how it is before detailed written records.
    • Ysgramor named the land "Mereth" after his people's word for elves. So he did not name it "Skyrim" (See the First Edition of the Pocket Guide to the Empire).

Anyone know about the Champion?

• So is anyone in Tamriel even aware of what became of the player character from the last game or any of his exploits? The Shivering Isles had the Champion of Cyrodiil ascend to the status of a god when he became Sheogorath, and the ending in the main storyline had him assist Martin in stopping Dagon and being heralded as a hero by the Empire, and yet the game is devoid of references to him. It seems odd that Skyrim wouldn't honor a guy like him, a mortal hero saving the world and ascending to godhood sounds an awful lot like their hero Talos. Hell the Dragonborn can't even muster up an answer as to who the Sheogorath even is! I guess only certain gods are in their "biblical canon"?
  • The Thalmor happened. Since their invasion, they've been working on revising history texts both to make themselves seem superior and to slowly undermine human cultures. They've done their damndest to eliminate Talos worship. They'd never allow the story of another (most likely, non-Altmer) mortal obtaining godhood to get out. Compared to taking down Talos worship, eliminating the information of a new Daedra (which is pretty rare to begin with) would be child's play.
    • The player is remembered. He's mentioned in The Oblivion Crisis. Heck, he's the most mentioned character of the book. As for the ascention to godhood... Who can tell the tale? It happened in the Shivering Isle. Anyone who comes from there are madmen. Not exactly the best witness. Plus Nords aren't exactly fans of Daedras in general. So why would they celebrate someone who became one? Furthermore his actions are referenced through the entire game (DB storyline, Theft of an Elder Scroll, etc...). What do you mean "He's never mentioned"?
    • Asking the Nords of Skyrim to remember your Oblivion character two hundred years later would be like asking a Scandinavian to remember some Roman hero two hundred years after the Roman Empire fell. It just isn't on the top of their to-do list, especially since they all just endured a Great War with the Thalmor, been stabbed in the back metaphorically by the Empire, and that's not to mention the nasty conflicts that happened during that length of time. In addition, the mere fact that your Oblivion character fought for the Empire would definitely encourage the Stormcloak Nords to not bother trying to remember you. As for the Empire Nords? Well, they don't have the time to remember you, or, as previously stated, the Thalmor did an excellent job and almost erased you completely from history. While some Nords do remember your Oblivion character, it's clear that most have long since forgotten about him/her. Plus, considering what happened to the Empire, they may not think your character was a hero after all, since Martin died and then all that happened.
    • I was simply pointing out that a guy who saved the world, or at least aided Martin in doing so, and ascended to the status of a god should be a pretty notable figure. In our own world entire religions have been based off of people who claimed to be gods throughout human history; a human ascending to the status of a god — something very much in line with Talos a guy who the Nords respect and honor — just goes completely unnoticed? I can understand contentions with his mortal identity (even though as a mortal he did a lot of good), but he's a god now!
    • And again, who knows it happened? It took place in the Shivering Isle. A place filled with Madmen. Who don't make the most credible witnesses. Especially when the Hero of Kvatch (According to Word of Dante) used Wabajack to change his appearance to more closely match (and sound like) the original Sheogorath. There's literally no evidence, and almost no way for the general population to learn of what happened.
  • The Hero of Kvatch is mentioned a few times, but for the most part their role in history is superceded by Martin. It's not that they're forgotten, but Martin is something easier to focus on in the histories, both from an in-universe perspective (he was the one who made the sacrifice to become the Avatar) and also from a meta perspective (since the Hero could be any race or do any or none of the other questlines). That the Hero rose to become Sheogorath is left unmentioned because no one knew about it, and Sheogorath apparently chose not to talk about it as well.
  • I'd say it's partly a matter of memorability. Martin Septim was the last heir of the Septim Dymasty (which, by most appearances, was fairly well-loved, and could claim decent from Talos/Tiber Septim himself), beacame a DIVINE AVATAR whose petrified form stood in the Imperial City, and was the one to actively KICK DAGON'S ARSE. The Champion, on the other hand, was, in most regards, simply an exceptional warrior who aided Martin in getting to that point, alongside countless others (Baurus and Jauffre, Burd, etc). Yes, they'd go on to become Sheogorath, but they never advertised that fact, nor did they have any (non-madmen) witnesses. They were, in a way, one of the 150 Knights of the Round Table to Martin's King Arthur. Remembered to some, but far outshone by the man they followed.

Fairness of Ulfric and Torygg's duel

• How was Ulfric's battle with High King Torygg fair? Not only was Torygg hopelessly outmatched by the Dragon Shout, an ability very few mortals actually possess, even fewer who aren't Dovahkiin, but said shout was taught to Ulfric by the Greybeards as a means of enlightenment, and he openly admits he misused the power. If this were truly a fair match, it would have been a battle between swords and/or magic. Using an ability very rare and nearly impossible for non-Dovahkiin to learn is a huge handicap.
  • Anybody could, theoretically, use the Thu'um. It just takes a great deal of training to use even simple, single-word Shouts for most people. Ulfric trained under the Greybeards and used his skill in the battle. Considering the fight you have with him in the Imperial campaign, Ulfric only knows part of the Unrelenting Force shout. An advantage, but hardly the game changer that the full shout is for the Dragonborn. As for the potential "fairness" of using the Thu'um in a duel, that's actually debated in-game: Torygg's supporters consider it cowardly cheating while Ulfric's see it as a sign of his right to rule.
    • If its part of his personal skill-set, he can use it and it's still a fair fight. The only way this could be disputed if we actually had some measure of insight into how a duel fought according to "the Old Way" was actually conducted. Especially as it dates to ancient times among the Nords, where the Voice was more widely known.
  • A perfectly "fair" fight is otherwise known as a "draw". There are advantages and disadvantages in any fight that makes them inherently unfair. A "fair" fight in the Nord sense is one where both combatants bring their abilities to the table and there's no outside interference; if Ulfric brings his skill with the Thu'um to the arena, a skill he earned, then he is perfectly in his rights to use it.
  • If this video means anything, Torygg can beat Ulfric if they use only swords and Ulfric does not use the Thu'um. Just an interesting thought.
    • Personally I don't put a lot of stock in that. The way the game's level scaling works, Ulfric's locked at level ten for the whole game as he's there at the start, where as Torygg is locked at whatever level you are when you meet him in Sovengarde, presumably much, much higher. The game generally implies that thu'um or no, Ulfric is the most formidable of the jarls in terms of armed combat.
    • All but directly stated in fact. Galmar pretty much says that if Ulfric wanted to he could take all the Jarls out easily in single-combat, and his abilities as a fighter and a master of the Thu'um are kept separate and both hyped up as being incredible.
    • Galmar is hardly an unbiased source, though.
    • Okay, how about the fact that members of Dead-King Torygg's own court state that his martial skill was nothing compared to Ulfric's? How about him being hyped up as a fearsome fighter in the Imperial campaign itself?
    • Even if Ulfric could win fairly, can you still say that he did? It's like the best boxer in the world, who could easily become champion without any aid, using steroids for the fight just because. Can you call that fair?
    • Two men with weapons fought, no one outside interfered, and the Thu'um is respected among the Nords. By Nord standards, yes, it was entirely fair.
    • So... by that logic, if Torygg was using legendary enchanted Daedric gear, and one-shotted Ulfric with it, that would be fair?
    • You can get in fistfights with unarmored opponents while wearing powerful and heavily-enchanted armor which punches couldn't pierce and clobber their tender faces with spiky gauntlets. They still consider you beating them to be fair, and can even become your friends afterwards. So yes, that match-up would be fair. Things are just different to Nords, it seems.
    • And yet if I Fus Ro Dah my fistfightee, it becomes unfair and is considered assault. How can you justify that?
    • Because it is a fistfight. With '''fists'''. You're breaking the rules there, which permit only the use of fists and nothing else.
    • My point exactly.
    • Apparently, according to the rules of a Nordic duel, the opponents bring what skills and equipment they have to the table, and no outside interference is permitted. If you have it, your BFS is allowed. If you're wearing it, your fancy armor is allowed. If you know a fireball spell, you can use it. If you know a Thu'um, you can use it. Would it be fair to us? Hell no. But in Nordic tradition, if you have something, chances are you've earned it, so it is your right to use it. (But no, I'm not pro-Stormcloak. I've been Imperial on every playthrough.)
    • That... kinda makes sense. Sure explains why nobody's complaining about my usage of dragonscale armor while they only have hide or leather.
  • I think this Headscratcher, in-universe, was another reason why the Civil War occurred in the first place.
  • It depends on what you mean by "fair". If you look at the cold, hard facts of the matter, Ulfric technically followed the Old Laws. There was no outside interference, both Ulfric and Torygg brought only their own natural skills to the fight, and apparently Torygg did not insist on a "no Thu'ums" condition before the fight (that's the difference between this fight and the brawls; when you challenge someone to a fistfight the NPC always insists on a "no magic, no weapons, only fists" rule). Thus, Ulfric and his followers feel that he did nothing wrong. After all it's hardly Ulfric's fault that Torygg was a wimp. As the High King of Skyrim, Torygg had a responsibility to toughen himself up and learn how to fight. If he couldn't be bothered to even brush up on his swordplay then, in their view, he doesn't deserve the position he has. But there's a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law, and it could be argued that Ulfric violated the spirit of the Old Laws. In cultures where honor duels are allowed (if not always condoned) it's expected that both participants must behave, well, honorably. This implies a set of unwritten rules. For instance, in an honorable duel it's generally assumed that while one person might have an advantage over the other, both combatants must have a decent chance of winning. So a tall man challenging a short man to a fistfight wouldn't necessarily be unfair because the short man can use speed and clever tactics to overcome the tall man's height and weight advantage. But challenging someone to a Duel to the Death when you KNOW they don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of beating you is dishonorable. For those who disapprove of Ulfric's actions the problem is not his superior skill or the fact that he used the Thu'um to defeat Torygg. The problem is that Ulfric went into the duel knowing that Torygg had no chance of beating him. The fact that Ulfric apparently went into the duel intending to use the Thu'um, knowing that Torygg couldn't possibly defend against it, makes it even worse.
    • Perhaps, but Ulfric didn't just denounce Torygg and then attack. It was a formal challenge, and Torygg had every right to refuse the duel. He accepted it, knowing perfectly well that Ulfric was, at the very least, a battle-hardened veteran who is considered to be one of the most formidable combatants in Skyrim. If Torygg went into that fight honestly believing that there would be any outcome other than his own untimely death, then he's a bigger fool than people already claim him to be. At no point does anyone on either side of the war claim that Ulfric was anything but upfront about his abilities. Torygg either set no restrictions on the duel, or decided to agree to the duel while knowing full well that anything goes in a challenge to the throne. As soon as Torygg answered the challenge, he accepted that Ulfric had the right to use any and all means at his disposal to win. Tradition says that the duel was therefore fair. Whether or not the tradition itself is fair is an entirely separate matter from whether or not the actual duel was, by Nord standards, "fair".
  • It is important to remember that whether or not the duel was considered truly fair or an unjustified murder is heavily disputed in-universe. The people of Solitude, for example, declared it to be unfair, to the point that they had Roggvir executed for simply letting Ulfric escape. Intensively traditionalist Nords like Roggvir, as well as Ulfric's supporters, hold that it was a fair combat. So even among the nords, there's a strong disagreement on whether or not Ulfric's challenge and his actions during the duel were justified and legal under Nord law.

Solitude's climate

• Solitude is further north than Windhelm, and may even be the northernmost city in Skyrim. Yet it apparently has a temperate climate with no snow, while Windhelm, Dawnstar, and Winterhold are perpetually covered in snow. What gives?
  • A number of factors. It's right over sea water, which could bring in a warm current. Plus, with the way the mountains are shaped, it's likely that the prevalent wind blows in from the hjaalmarch, which is relatively warm.
  • This, pretty much. Latitude is far from the only thing influencing climate. Look at a globe of Earth, and you can see that the British Isles sit at roughly the same latitude as Moscow and much of Canada, but have a far different climate than either of those. It boils down to a number of factors, including warm water currents and surface geography, especially considering the location of High Rock and its climate. There's almost certainly a warm water current running around the northwest coast of Skyrim, with cold water currents running along the northeastern coast. The mountains of Haafingar likely shield Solitude as well; note how the western parts of the hold are relatively snowbound, while the eastern parts of Haafingar are temperate. Most likely, the weather patterns are caused by warm water currents on the northwestern coast, coupled with a warm wind from the southern regions of Skyrim, channeled around the central mountain ranges separating Whiterun and Hjaalmarch. The weather patterns around Dawnstar, Winterhold, and Eastmarch are caused by cold water currents and frigid southbound winds caught by the mountains. Riften's warmer climate is almost certainly a result of both its southern location and the presence of the constant heat from the caldera to the north, carried south on the winds.

Cooking with Salt

• Why do you need salt to make just about anything? I mean, sure, makes sense for the soups, but do you really need salt to heat up a chunk of meat?
  • Read the Salt-cured meat entry. Given the tech level of TES, salting meat was the only method of preserving it, and considering you might literally go years between cooking a venison chop and eating it, salt-curing would be a handy explanation to why it's still safe to eat. The game just considers curing the meat to be a part of the cooking process.
    • I dare you to pick a cooking book and find a recipe that doesn't ask salt, mandatory or facultative, even just a bit. Heck, even sweets require a tiny bit of salt, just to make sure it doesn't turn up oversugar-y! It's not videogame logic, it's common sense.
    • But I can also have the raw meat lying around in my pocket/on the floor for years with no trouble.
    • So someone else salted it for you. Ho ho. But seriously, it might be a reflection of Nordic/Scandinavian cuisine, which does utilise salt in recipes more than other places.
    • Hi there. Welcome to videogames.

The Shoes of Shriekwind

• If you go to Shriekwind Bastion, there's a strange room filled with shoes. Is it ever explained why or mentioned again?
  • In that sort of time period shoes were quite valuable compared to other articles of clothing.
  • My best guess is that a programmer was bored of having to fill the seven-hundredth room full of stereotypical medieval furnishings, and decided to screw around a little bit, both to amuse him/herself and whatever player stumbles upon it. Also, may be a Call-Back to Fallout 3's Toilet Plunger Room, which had a similar odd abundance of worthless items.
  • Shriekwind Bastion is also filled with vampires and human remains. Guess what happened to the owners of those shoes.
  • You've found yet another of Imelda Marcos' hideaways.
  • A shoe cupboard, perhaps?

Rorikstead's location

• So Rorikstead is famous for its crops. Erik states they've never had a poor harvest and that the fertile soil may be a factor. But... Rorikstead is right in the middle of a freaking tundra! Tundras are known for having infertile soil due to the bad weather, and having very little if any plant life. Some literally go on for miles without even a single weed sprouting. So how was Rorik able to make a thriving farm village in the middle of such a barren area? It would make lot more sense if they were in Falkreath Hold.
  • That's because its not in tundra. You know how you can tell? There's trees there.◊ Trees can't grow in tundra because of permafrost. Its one of the defining elements of tundra. Whiterun's climate and biome is more of a plains environment rather than tundra. The only places in the game where you see an actual tundra environment is the extreme north around Dawnstar and Winterhold.
    • Strange. The UESP describes it as a tundra. Someone has to fix that.
    • Yeah, whoever made that edit made the mistake of thinking "plains + cold = tundra" and pretty much failed basic geography. Whiterun is more of a steppe or grassland environment, though obviously much rougher than most steppes or grasslands.

The Empire being viewed as not Nordic

The Empire was founded by Nords, and was the main instrument by which the Nords spread into the rest of Tamriel. Furthermore, all Imperials have the Voice of the Emperor in their blood, which descends from Talos' own Thu'um. So why is it that Stormcloaks think that the Empire is not Nordic?

• The Empire was founded millenia ago. Civilizations always changed over time, and the Stormcloaks view them as changing for the worse. The Empire when Talos founded it was not the Empire "filled with milkdrinkers" that it is today. A combination of age, the fact that the capitol is in Cyrodiil and not in Skyrim, and the fact that many Nordic traditions are being oppressed by the current administration is seen as proof of serious Motive Decay, so in effect, restoring the traditions is restoring the "true" Empire that was founded by Talos. Whether or not this belief is justified is obviously up to the player.
• Its actually more complex than just "the Empire was founded by Nords." Especially as there are three acknowledged "Empires" in Tamrielic history. The first was the Alessian Empire (which itself is the source of the Dragonfires and the Amulet of Kings which was passed through subsequent Empires) which was founded by Cyrodiilic natives. The second Empire was the Reman Empire. The third Empire was the one founded by Tiber Septim, who may have been Atmoran by birth or born in High Rock, depending on which story you follow. He originally led an army from Colovia (western Cyrodiil) and overcame a combined Nord and Breton army at Sancre Tor, who then joined him, and he then took over Cryodiil from King Cuhlecain. So, the Third Empire is only partially Nordic, and this is before cultural shift over the Third and Fourth Eras that turned the Empire into something that is very culturally different from Skyrim.
  • The idea of the Empire being entirely Nordic in origin is essentially in-game Creator Provincialism, similar to how any artistic renditions of Jesus tend to be the same race as the creator of the artwork in question. Sure, there was a Nordic influence, but it wasn't entirely Nordic. The fact that Nords are the only ones who call him by the name Talos (everyone else that cares tends to use his Imperial name Tiber Septim) is telling of how they inflate their own input on the matter.
    • Actually not at all. During during the Third Era, EVERYONE referred to Tiber Septim as Talos if they were talking about him in religious matters. It's not the guy's Nordic birth name, that would 'Hjalti' (confirmed by Skyrim as well, as a ghost of Tiber Septim's past refers to him by that name). Talos is a just a Nordic (or perhaps Draconic) word for 'Storm-Crown'.
    • Honestly? Go back and play the beginning of Oblivion. Even Redguards referred to Tiber Septim as Talos in religious contexts, hell even fucking Cyrodiils like Martin Septim called him Talos. Talos isn't even the bloody Nordic aspect of Tiber Septim - that would Ysmir. The fact that most Nords in Skyrim seem to refer to Tiber Septim as Talos instead of Ysmir shows that they aren't inflating their own input into the Empire at all. In fact, it shows only that they're underrating said input.
    • Hjalti's very existence was suppressed by Talos himself, there's a reason that the version of his apotheosis that involves him and not Tiber is considered heresy. Also, Talos and Ysmir are not one aand the same, Talos *is* a Nordic name, as he got it at Old Hrol'dan, when he first showed his voice to the nords, getting the name Talos Stormcrown. Additionally, Ysmir is a nordic incarnating hero, like the Hoon Ding for Redguards or Shezzarine for Imperials, and Hjalti was either an Ysmir, or helped by the ghost of an Ysmir.
  • Does the Empire have Jarls? Are there Moots in Cyrodiil? Do they drink lots mead down there? Do they distrust mages? How about their architecture, does it match Nordic designs? Do they worship Talos anymore or are they following the Eight? Do the people of Cyrodiil sings songs of Ysgramor, do they speak of the Dragonborn heroes and the sagas of the great raiders? Do they have Alduin as part of their pantheon? The answer to all of these questions is "No." The Empire isn't Nordic at this point because surprisingly, the culture and environment of Cyrodiil isn't a Nord culture at all. it doesn't matter who founded it, if it doesn't have a Nord culture then it's not Nord.

The Origin of the Bretons

• According to the Notes on Racial Phylogeny [NRP], hybrid races generally inherit the race of their mother with a few traits from the father yet a group of the human/Altmer (Manmer) ancestors of the Bretons were indistinguishable from full blooded Altmer, according to the Nords who discovered them. Elven features, particularly magical proficiency, eyebrows, and slight points in their ears were even passed down to the Manmer-Nedic offspring known as the Bretons. Based on the logic of NRP, the Bretons shouldn't exist. Explanation: human female + elven male = human. If that "human" is a female who breeds with another hybrid, or elf, she is most likely to produce a "human". It is possible the "rules" change when hybrids are procreating or that NRP was convenient for game design.
  • More likely is that the NRP text is only relevant to single instances of cross-species breeding. The Bretons came about as a longer-term process of interbreeding with humans and elves. Presumably, a continuous process of interbreeding between the two species, and further interbreeding within their offspring, produced the Bretons over several generations.
  • The creation of the Bretons wasn't a single instance of interbreeding, but a long, extended process by which Direnni elven males interbred with Nede females. Notes on Racial Phylogeny generally deals with singular instances of interbreeding between species, but the Direnni spent many, many generations siring children with Nede concubines, the children of whom would go on to interbreed, which meant that a great deal of Direnni genetic stock was getting passed down and then passed around the Nede population. Those minor elven aspects added up over time to alter the entire population of the region. The fact that the Bretons are largely human but with minor elven characteristics backs up NPR's conclusions.

Thanes

• Why are there so few Thanes in Skyrim? There are only 4, not counting the Dragonborn, and two of them in the same hold (Erikur and Bryling). The Last two Thanes are related to their respective Jarls (Dengeir of Stuhn who is also an ex-Jarl and Hrongar). And why do none of the NPC Thanes employ a Housecarl beside the Dragonborn? Even if counting the fact that the war killed a lot of people, that doesn't account for so few Thanes remaining, as Thanes need not necessarily be warriors, as evidenced by Bryling and Erikur.
  • There probably are many more Thanes, its just they're either not mentioned, are out fighting the war, or are just out and about. There's a lot of conservation of detail involved. Just as the "actual" Whiterun would have more than thirty people living in there, there would likely be a lot more Thanes if it weren't for the compressed nature of the game.
  • There are also several individuals in the game who are heavily implied to be Thanes despite not being explicitly named as such. Granted, it's been over a year since I've played the game so I'd have to do some digging to ferret out who is and isn't.
  • Technically Melaran is Erikur's Housecarl (If you ask him what he does around the Blue Palace, he says it's "making sure Erikur keeps breathing") and I think Mjoll is actually Thane of Riften.

Female Briarhearts?

• Yes I know that by default, the game doesn't have a female briarheart model. But is there any in-universe explanation for this? Are they supposed to be male counterparts for hagravens or something?
  • There are no female Briarhearts. Women who advance up the Forsworn ranks are instead trained as witches and turned into hagravens.

Nobles to Barbarians

• I'm very confused by this very sudden and drastic deviation from all of the previously established lore about Bretons. Seriously... what the hell is up with the Forsworn? In all of the previous games, Breton culture was very courtly, polished, and aristocratic. Now suddenly they're almost exactly like Orcs, except absolutely and completely batshit - barbarians who live in tribes, camp outdoors or squat in ruins, run around in only a few tiny scraps of fur, and indiscriminately slaughter people with improvised weapons. I'm so bewildered by this it's unreal. This really doesn't make any sense. What the hell happened? What is the deal here?
  • The Forsworn / Reachmen are not the same as the Bretons of High Rock. The later are what was presented in the other game (And the kind of Breton you most likely play if you make a PC). The Reachmen are Bretons in that they are the same species, yes, but an entirely different culture, one that has, for centuries (If not millenias), existed as second class citizens to the local Nords. The Forsworn did not embrace the Nine Divines the way the Bretons did (Most likely because this was seen as adopting the culture of the invader) and instead worship their (ill defined) Old Gods. Meanwhile, the Bretons of High Rock have been the masters of their own land for a long time - baring the occasional Orc uprising and the infighting between their various nations and the neighbouring Redguard Kingdoms in Hammerfell, their culture developed more closely along the lines of the rest of Empire as they were a part of both the Alessian Empire, the Reman Empire, and the Septim Empire, helped by the fact that (According to some Rumors) Tiber Septim either was a Breton, or at least had spent time in High Rock (A ghost you mean calls him Hjalti Early-Beard, and mentions they trained In Alcaire, which is in High Rock).
  • Also note that SOME High Rock Bretons were at one time like the Reachmen. A time as recent as when Talos was around. His first victory (Again, backed up by the Ghost you meet in Skyrim who knew the guy) was against the "Witchmen of the Rock". This conflict is mentioned in "The Acturian Heresy", a book that was in Morrowind.
  • It is also important to note that the highly cultured, civilized Bretons are in High Rock. It is also very important to note that at no point in all of this particular game are we ever in High Rock. There's a reason why the game is called Skyrim. The Reachmen are indeed savages because they aren't High Rock Bretons. It is also important to note that for the most part, the Forsworn have become the savage barbarians they are specifically because they were driven out of Markarth by Ulfric decades before and have fallen into worshipping daedra and the hagravens for the magical power they need to carry out their insurgent campaign. It is equally important that a great many of the Reachmen, particularly the Bretons you meet in Markarth, are quite civilized; even many of the Forsworn are actually pretty civilized, but can turn brutal and vicious at the drop of a hat if they need to. A lot of the Forsworn are otherwise ordinary Bretons who don those "savage" outfits as - effectively - a uniform and a sign of the creatures they serve to further their ends.
  • The Daedra / Hagraven worshipping predates the Markath Incident by several millenias. See "The Legend of Red Eagle" which mentions Hagravens involvement with the Reachmen in a manner very similar to what we see today, during the times of the Alessian Empire. Daedra Worship and the Hagravens have been a part of the men of the Reach's society for ages. While there's no doubt they are more civilized when not forced to survive in ruins on the run from Nords who want to kill or enslave them, even the Civilized Reachmen are very different from High Rock Bretons. The civilized Reachmen are more those who have modernized and moved on from their people's old ways, while the Forsworn and their ilks follow the "Old Ways", and it's a tradition that goes back long ago.
  • Note that in Elder Scrolls Online, the game makes a distinction between the Bretons of High Rock itself and the Reachmen; the former are part of the Daggerfall Covenant while the latter are an independent kingdom in eastern High Rock and western Skyrim.

Where are the Oblivion gates?

• Shouldn't there be a ton of Oblivion gate remnants scarring the landscape? Anyone who's played Oblivion knows that closing a gate still leaves behind a permanent change to the environment.
  • They've had two hundred years to clean up the damage, both physically and metaphysically.
  • The gates themselves were also almost certainly torn down by the various mortal races for various reasons. Vigilants of Stendarr and other priests and orders militant of the Divines likely tore them apart on principle and suppress daedra worship, while mages would have taken them apart for research and power, and daedra worshippers likely pillaged them for their own reasons. After the remains of the Gates were cleared out, nature then would have erased the signs of the sites over the next two hundred years.

How did anyone get into Blackreach previously?

• This applies to Sinderion, the Falmer servants, and Drokt (the skeleton in the Tower of Mzark). Before inserting the attunement sphere into any of the three dwarven mechanisms leading to Blackreach, the entire cavern was completely off-limits. All three Great Lifts, as well as the Tower of Mzark, were locked from inside. Blackreach was all but unheard of by scholars of the Dwemer. So how did anyone get down there before the Dragonborn? Is there some secret route we don't know about?
  • There's an attunement sphere in Sinderion's field laboratory, so we know how he got in. As to how the Falmer got in, they were originally Dwemer slaves. They were always there, from back before the Dwemer vanished from Mundus. And being already on the inside they and their descendants they can use one of the Great Lifts to let anybody else in whenever they want to.
  • That does answer the question of Sinderion, thank you. The Falmer were there to begin with, they've lived there for many generations, for sure — I'm not so certain about their servants. The hostile men and mer in rags who are around the Silent City. There's never any indication that the Falmer know how to operate Dwemer machinery, or else they'd be able to direct it against you whenever they have the opportunity. Also, Drokt. No idea about Drokt.
  • Errr, you can operate the Great Lifts just fine, so why can't the Falmer? Simply pulling a lever is not exactly the most intellectually challenging of tasks.

Why haven't the Thalmor officially banned the worship of Morihaus and Reman?

• Okay, we know the real reason the Thalmor banned the worship of Talos is because they want to destroy linear time and return the Merish races to godhood. Of course, the rest of the world and possibly much of their mid to low levels don't know that. They portray their reason for banning Talos as being due to a theological dispute that holds that men cannot become gods. So, why doesn't the White Gold Concordat also ban Imperial man-gods like Reman, the founder of Cyrodiil, and Morihaus, the mortal son of Kynareth? Surely these two being unmentioned would have raised some eyebrows, as their continued worship would clearly be a glaring heresy to Aldmeri beliefs?
  • Because Talos/Tiber helped found the Septim Empire (an Empire of Man) which included Summerset Isle, the home of the Altmer so banning him first was like a giant middle finger to him and the Septim Empire as a whole. It's possible that the others are banned as well, but because the troubles are over Talos, that's what the Thalmor are focusing on right now.
  • Okay. On that note, how do the Thalmor feel about the continued worship of Shor in Skyrim and possibly other places (Shezzar in Cyrodiil for instance, even though he's almost forgotten there)? Lorkhan is by far the most despised entity in their mythologies, and he's probably twice as offensive to them as Talos ever was. Does the Concordat ban his worship too? I doubt it, since if it did the Nords would probably make at least a big deal out of it as they do for Talos, given that he's basically Elder Scrolls Odin.
  • Because they honestly don't give a shit about Reman and Morihaus. Which probably also fuels the anger of Talos worshipers, as their particular god is being specifically targeted.
  • Assuming the apocryphal story about returning to divine status is false, the Thalmor hate Talos the most for historical reasons: Tiber Septim lead a conquest against Sommerset Isle.
  • It's important to note that Reman and Morihaus are venerated, but they aren't venerated to the same level as the Divines. The Divines are beings associated with the elements of Nirn and the Mundus as a whole, things that everyone reveres. Both mer and men venerate Akatosh/Auri-El, for example. But Talos isn't one of those Divines that the elves venerate, and what's worse still, he's an aspect of the filthy, vile, evil monster Lorkhan who's responsible for damning all of elvenkind to this shithole of a planet Nirn. They're already kind of pissed that humans hold Lorkhan in a positive light, but that's just something that humans do. Mer hate Lorkhan, men love him, it's been the cause of the wars between them for milennia, that thing happens. But oh, here goes this Empire, who not only venerate that shitstain Lorkhan, but elevated an aspect of him to the ranks of the Divines. Nope, nope, nooooope, not putting up with that shit. Or at least, that's the official story, and from their perspective, the elves are pretty justified in their hatred of the heresy putting Talos up there with the likes of Auri-El.
  • They've also got a personal beef with Talos/Tiber Septim because not only did he conquer the Summerset Isles for the first time in history, but Numidium, being the time-fucking mecha-god it is, is still attacking the Isles across multiple timelines and periods. They're rather peeved about the kilometer-tall brass Gundam that Tiber Septim unleashed on them which is still randomly showing up and stomping their shit, which rather justifies some of their particular hatred toward Talos.
  • Aside from having a personal hatred for Tiber Septim, there's also the issue that Reman and Morihaus aren't elevated to the same place as the Divines - in other words, put on the same level as the elven pantheon. Venerating them as saints is different from putting them in the place of chief deities. Also, Talos is elevated to the place of the "missing god" in the Divines religion, which traditionally was an open place where anyone could venerate a god of their choice. The Atlmer really, really disliked this shift in doctrine because no mortal being, let alone a man, should ever be able to reach the same lofty place as the Aedra.

The White Gold Concordat

• So... That damn treaty prevents the Empire from worshiping Talos as a god, because according to Altmer folklore, they are all half-ascended gods and the notion of a human getting there before they is obscene...Okay, well elf egos aside, why not simply worship Talos as an ancestor? Simply not calling him a god would solve all this. Just tear down all the temples and build "shrines" to Talos instead, no divinity no problem. It is a major loop-hole the empire could use to A. stick it to the Thalmor and B. take the wind out of Ulfric's supposed main grievance C. allow them to honor their founder again. If Ulfric still tried to fight it would be nakedly obvious he only wanted to be king; Best case scenario, no civil-war, worst case scenario, there would be far less Nords to sign up as Stormcloaks. If the Thalmor decided even worshiping an ancestor was illegal, first off then everyone would know they can't be trusted to honor their own treaties, good luck keeping your other territories in-line, and second, well the folks in Morrowind would probably have a few things to say about inquisitorial campaigns against ancestor worship; Hello massive new ally.
  • That's probably already in the White-Gold Concordat. The Thalmor want no worship of Talos at all, and ancestor worship still grants him a degree of power. Also, worshiping Talos as an ancestor would probably not sit well with his worshippers in the first place; you can't just substitute traditions from an entirely different religion like Lego blocks. Using a Morrowind tradition to venerate Talos would likely enrage Talos worshippers even more than enforcing covert Talos worship, simply because that's not how the Divines are venerated and it would be viewed as an insult to the gods.
  • Also, suggesting to a Nord that they worship Talos in the same way that a filthy Dunmer worships his ancestors will likely end with said Nord driving a fist through your face for the insult to him, his traditions, and his gods.
  • Funny bit of a meta(kinda) example here, there is a mod for skyrim that allows you to revisit the Bruma region of cyrodiil, and when you arrive infront of the temple a priest is arguing with two thalmor, because the temple worships martin septim as st.martin, the priest manages to get one over on them by mentioning that the WGC makes no mention of being unable to worship other "holy" things, I know its modded but i like to think the WGC is still in its "constructive legislation" phase, so they are still ironing out the kinks, if they secure their hold then yes the worship of anything related to Talos or anything tangentally like that will be barred.
  • Worshipping a Divine does not simply involve praying to them. Fervent prayer does please them, but ultimately, what makes a Divine become stronger is living and acting in a manner that they approve of. You can pray all you want and in whatever way you want to a shrine of Zenithar, but if you're a lazy fop who steals and lets others do their work for them, he's not going to gain anything from your worship. Worshipping Talos means you must emulate Talos and his life: you must be strong, you must fight against threats to your home and self, you must protect your fellows, and so on. Abusing a loophole in a treaty's precise wording will not please Talos or strengthen him. Living as Talos did will strengthen him, and none of the aspects of Talos in life ever bowed down to a foreign power.

Does the Dragonborn (player character) canonically only worship the Eight Divines?

• Freedom to worship Talos and his inclusion among the ranks of the Divines is one of the big conflicts in Skyrim, so it's rather surprising that when you go to the Temple of Mara in Riften, you're given the option to ask priestess Dinya Balu which of the Eight she serves. Is the use of "Eight" rather than "Nine" dependent on anything about the player character (race or factions you joined)? It just seemed weird that in Stormcloak-controlled Riften, your character would feel the need to exclude Talos (this would have made sense in, say, Solitude, though). It seems to suggest that the Dragonborn doesn't worship Talos. Imperials like Lucan Valerius reference the Eight while Nords like Onmund will use "By the Nine!" Is this an oversight by Bethesda? It seems odd given that the issue can be solved by just having the player character generically ask which of the Divines a priest/priestess serves.
  • This is probably an oversight, or at least included to keep it compatible with an Imperial victory. In other situations, such as confronting Thalmor for example, you can tell them that you worship Talos.
    • Don't forget that your Dragonborn could potentially be a Dunmer, a Khajiit, a Redguard, a Bosmer, an Argonian... "Which of the Eight do you serve?" is likely just playing it as safe as possible.
  • And, if your Dragonborn character is young enough, he/she probably has lived his/her entire life up to this point worshipping only the Eight Divines what with Talos being outlawed and all. It'll take time for him/her to come to terms with the fact that in an Independant!Skyrim, he/she is now free to include Talos with the Eight Divines.

Think of the Children!

• Why are the only children seen in Skyrim young humans (here meaning Imperials, Redgaurds, Nords and Bretons)? It seems strange that they're the only population to successfully reproduce often enough that you actually see one of their kids, especially given some other in-game details: There are no fewer than four Orc villages in Skyrim, populations comparable to Riverwood (which has two kids running around) or possibly one of the hold capitals; the Khajit form caravans wandering Skyrim, and tend to be a little fast-and-loose in that department (there's even a Khajit book that suggests the reader get laid as soon as possible, with basically anybody eligible); the Mer have an active presence in Skyrim (even discounting the Thalmor) and tend to congregate whenever possible; and the Argonians in places other than Windhelm are doing fairly well, with one side quest even having the player gather jewels for a prospective couple's wedding bands... yet none of the above appear to have any kids running around.
  • There's two sets of answers for this one. First, the story reason: Conservation of Detail and low populations. Argonians don't have children like humans and mer and khajiit. Argonian children are lizards who grow into Argonian adults in Blackmarsh by eating Hist sap. There's no reason for Argonian children to be in Skyrim. For the khajiit, the only khajiit presence is caravans, bandits, and a small number of individuals scattered around the province. The number of khajiit children in Skyrim would be painfully low at best as a result. There's also very few Bosmer and Altmer for similar reasons, so there would be few couples with children. For Dunmer and Orcs, that's a different matter, but even then their populations are very low compared to human populations in Skyrim. This, coupled with the next answer, is why they don't have children shown in-game.
  • The second answer is from a development perspective: it's not worth it to create children for those races in terms of resources and development time. With a proportionally low number of NPCs and the fact that children would require custom skeletons and facial meshes like adults, it's not worth it to make a custom skeleton and mesh for children for Khajiit, Orcs, Dunmer, or Argonians because very few NPCs would actually use those special meshes and skeletons. On top of that, you'd likely need to hire an additional voice actor for each race's child because of the vast difference in the vocalizations of those races, and it's not worth the expense to only voice one or two children for each race, unless that child was a major NPC on the level of Tullius, Ulfric, or Serana. It's just not worth the time and expense to create them for the mer and beast races because there won't be very many of them in the game to begin with. On the other hand, it's much easier to create children for Nords, Bretons, Redguards, and Imperials: just change the skin tone a bit on the base child race and skeleton and you're done. With Bethesda's development resources being limited, and with how much stuff is already in Skyrim, it just was not worth the time to make children for such small populations.

Misery loves company, and Dunmer apparently love misery

• So, It's a well known fact in Skyrim that the Dunmer of Windhelm are treated absolutely horribly, and are basically shoved into a corner of the city that equates to slums. And the Nords clearly don't want them there and Ulfric doesn't much care about the Dunmer either way, what i want to know is why are they staying there? Wouldn't it be more realistic that there would be little pockets of Dunmer dotted across the Province?
  • If you're an oppressed minority in a place where there are hardline elements dedicated to making your life miserable and the rest of the majority seems content to look the other way, would you rather, A.) band together with others of your same racial / cultural background and form a small community which may be poor and oppressed, but is at least yours, or B.) go live by yourself somewhere where you're not welcome and all it would take would be a relatively small number of malcontents to do something like burn your home down in the dead of night or drag you out and lynch you, and you would have no one to turn to for help?
  • Skyrim is very dangerous to travel in, and most of them are poor refugees who cannot afford to travel, let alone afford to buy a house or set up a farm anywhere in most hospitable or safer climes. Windhelm is the first large, civilized place on the way west from Morrowind, with people of the same culture living there, so they're going to form an enclave if they can't afford to move on. They're especially unlikely to spread out across Skyrim, since doing so isolates groups of Dunmer and likely leaves them vulnerable to banditry or Nords who harbor harsher grudges from the frequent Nord/Dunmer wars of the past. While Windhelm isn't ideal, the walls keep them safe, the stone keeps out the snow and keeps in the heat, the markets have food, the businesses have work, and there's other Dunmer around for protection. None of these are guaranteed if they move west or south. What the Dunmer did is historically what tends to happen to displaced populations in apathetic/hostile lands; you just need to look at how population trends with migrants settling in new lands tend to work. The vast majority of the time, the displaced population builds a safe enclave at the first place willing to accept them.