Do we know what Spamton's famous line (along with two OS Ts, and an attack), "NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO BE A [[BIG SHOT]]", is referencing? Is there a discussion for this somewhere already, or an example, in which case please throw in the hyperlink for me. I would appreciate it.
In case there is no discussion yet, I suggest that Billy Joel's song Big Shot could be the reference. The chorus begins: "You just had to be a (beat) big shot, didn't you ..." As you can see, very similar to spamton's lines. What I especially like is that "you just had to be a" is in the prechorus, and "big shot" is in the chorus, after a pause (on the 4th beat of the previous bar), and sung slower; the double square brackets seem to mirror this highlighting of the word in the song and the two OST titles are split in the exact same place.
The song has already been floating around in pop culture, not that Billy Joel is obscure either. It featured as the closing music in an episode of S1 The Boys, where it was also highlighted as trivia by Amazon Video X-Ray because Billy Joel is also the lead protagonist's favourite musician. Thats how I learned of the song anyway. The song is also old enough to fit in with spamton's association to old technology (the "golden age" of spam mail) and 1997. I hate to do wild theorising, but Big Shot could have been a hit pop during Spamton's childhood. Or maybe its an anachronism fallacy, that 1997 is "old" and 1978 (the release year of Big Shot) is also "old", and the two have formed a link in Toby Fox's brain.
An alternate explanation is that "big shot" was much more commonly used earlier. However [Google Ngrams](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=big+shot&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=26&smoothing=6&case_insensitive=true)
shows otherwise.
The usage has been steadily rising since ~1980 (which means Billy Joel picked the word at its lowest point in usage — good for him). The conclusion is that the word is unlikely to be associated with older, 20th century slang. Usage in advertising, and speech, does not necessarily strictly correlate to usage in books; unfortunately, I am just not old enough to talk from experience – plus the word did not pick up the same traction with British English (which you can see from Google Trends).
There is some evidence to support that there were advertising campaigns using the word, which I got from the trivia section of the [Fandom wiki](https://deltarune.fandom.com/wiki/Spamton). [This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy19H-hVbIE) commercial ticks both Big Shot and 1997. I find it hard to believe that Spamton's whole character revolves around this short and (YMMV) bad commercial; it is also not ruled out that this may be a coincidence – did Big Shot soda only release commercials in 1997?
One last thing to remember. The whole undertale franchise was released in two languages: English and Japanese. This means that there are many puns and references which don't translate perfectly between the two languages, and this could be one of them. I don't know Japanese, so I won't even bother trying to analyse this whole new dimension. I do know that the same Fandom wiki didn't suggest anything ground breaking, so I think this is a reference to something English.
(If this doesn't generate conversation, I will probably bring the discussion to the subreddit.)
Edited by Tokarak Hide / Show Replies
There's lots and lots of speculation, and many plausible answers, but no definitive ones. Just like how Toby likes it.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Confounded by avatar changes
What's the consensus on how examples are supposed to be indented on trope pages that also list Undertale? Example Indentation says to list franchises under a single point, but does Deltarune count as part of the franchise of Undertale? There's also some examples here and there on pages that list the Undertale examples, then list the Deltarune examples as a subpoint, which I think is definitely incorrect.
Hide / Show Replies
There's no franchise page for (Undertale and Deltarune), nor a name for it, so as far as example indentation is confirmed they're two separate and disconnected works.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
I remember seeing back in the early days of the fandom that a lot of people depicted rouxls kaard with swords or even being good at swordfighting. since he has a cutlass during his fight in chapter 2, do you think that could be a Fandom Nod or Pandering to the Base? or is it just a coincidence?
Hide / Show Replies
prolly a coincidence. i mean, we don't really see people depicting Rouxls as a pirate before Chapter 2 came out, so
Twitter/Instagram: anzasquiddles. Deviantart: anzahanifathallah.
day one of requesting to remove the Ambiguous Gender trope from kris' page
Hide / Show Replies
It's really not at this point, they're established as separate from the player and if their own parents use they/them pronouns for them then it can hardly be called ambiguous since logically they would 100% know.
IIRC — as with Frisk and Chara in Undertale — the reason "they/them" were picked as pronouns was to leave it ambiguous as to whether the player character is male or female, allowing players of any gender to project themselves onto the character.
To be honest, I'm starting to come around to the possibility of Kris actually being unambiguously non-binary.
I'm personally very much in favour of it (at least partially because of my reservations in AGI being used for characters who are likely enby).
TV Tropes's No. 1 bread themed lesbian. she/her, fae/faer
kris ISN'T MEANT TO BE PROJECTED ONTO THOUGH. they have their own identity, you're explicitly controlling them as a separate person. no offense but did you even play the game Arawn 999
oh, and on that note seam probably shouldn't be designated as "ambiguously gendered" either. toby specifically used they/them to refer to them on the official undertale 6th anniversary stream. unless you want to argue how they're actually a player insert too?
C'mon, there's no need for that.
Perhaps we should take this to the "Is this an example" thread)?
EDIT: I did just that
There seems to be a consensus for Kris at least. Not sure about Seam.
TV Tropes's No. 1 bread themed lesbian. she/her, fae/faer
sorry, that was kind of harsh. I just think that there are some cases where a nonbinary character doesn't have to be explicitly stated to be nonbinary in order for it to be canon.
alright, an update now that it's been some time. what's the consensus? the people in the thread seemed to agree that kris was most likely intended to be nonbinary.
i feel like we should move the section for Pipis from Characters.Deltarune Darkners to Characters.Deltarune Spamton, since Pipis is very closely associated with Spamton more than anything else. what do you think?
Twitter/Instagram: anzasquiddles. Deviantart: anzahanifathallah. Hide / Show Replies
Regarding Shout-Out, Toriel also mentions "Green Eggs and Ham," making a minor nod to the Grinch Leaks surrounding Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.
Hide / Show Replies
Edit: Whoops, meant to start a new topic not reply, sorry!
>In a more general note, it examines the common fandom wish for there to be a sequel to Undertale by creating a simultaneous Happy Ending Override and a scenario where the main cast doesn't have the same relationships as in the first game, completely averting one of the main reasons that fans wanted to see in a sequel.
I don't know about you guys, but this is actually exactly what I wanted to see in a sequel. Changing things up and altering established relationships is perfect for an AU.
Edited by TheGreatUnknown
[nvm, i was gonna start a new thread but accidentally made it a reply]
Edited by anza_sb Twitter/Instagram: anzasquiddles. Deviantart: anzahanifathallah.
Chapter Two's bad route doesn't have a name to it yet. I propose we call it "Snow Mercy".
Hide / Show Replies
(honestly i love it)
I've been here too long. Regretting choosing this screenname ten years ago.
Nice pun, but it seems like everyone is calling it "Genocide" (or occasionally "Snowgrave route").
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
I kinda like Snowgrave route myself, since even in Chapter 1 or so when you beat enemies, they always run away before they die (although Noelle freezing them leaves nothing to the imagination there.) And you're not quite going out of your way to murder everything on this route.
UPDATE: According to internal files its apparently called the "Weird Route." We should go with that til Toby says otherwise.
There's a commented out note saying we shouldn't edit the page just to change the other route name unless we have an official one but...we kinda do now.
where should we put the Annoying Dog character page on? should we put him on Characters.Deltarune Lightners, or on Characters.Deltarune Other Characters?
Twitter/Instagram: anzasquiddles. Deviantart: anzahanifathallah.
Recent edits have claimed that Toby Fox and his team are releasing Chapter 2 stand-alone before releasing the entire complete game upon finishing it.
> Fox has stated, though, that he also plans to at least release the game's second chapter as a stand-alone installment as well before the full release, annoucing in September 2020 that he and his team hope to have said chapter ready for release in late 2020/early 2021.
However, while it does come with an update (https://undertale.com/deltarune-update-092020/) that lists Toby Fox saying this:
> "A lot of progress has been made since that time. I believe we can complete this chapter, content-wise, before the end of the year (not accounting for translation, bugtesting, and porting)"
I believe that it's just poor wording per the update's part. With "not accounting for translation, bugtesting, and porting", I think Toby means that his team will finish that part before the end of the year before moving on to the rest of the games development BUT won't release it.
This edit has been removed previously following this wording, yet was reverted with the reasoning, "There's an update." As Fox has clarified before (https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1147326369228918784) that plans for a full release haven't changed, I'm inclined to believe that Chapter 2 won't be released alone.
I noticed that something was not mentioned anywhere in the Tropes page. So, I decided to come here to ask where this belongs to. But it seems that it still is possible to get the pacifist ending even if certain specific encounters are done through violence. These are the encounters that follow: 1. One Ruddin and/or one Hathy can be defeated through violent methods, as you can apologize to them during the Castle portion of the game. (For those curious, I saw this being done on Joel's playthrough of Deltarune) 2. Any encounter with Lancer can be done with violence, with no consequence to the ending. 3. C. Round, even if it is Kris/Ralsei who delivers the finishing blow. 4. Jevil, but that was already mentioned.
I got the feeling that these instances can apply to an specific trope, but I have no idea which one.
On an unrelated note, it is also possible that the first encounter with K. Round can be done without Susie dealing enough damage to it for it to heal (therefore, does not get stronger), if you bring Susie with really low HP to the fight, and K. Round's first attack kills Susie. Ralsei's text will stay the same, and say that she made K.Round stronger by attacking it, regardless it never got a chance to power up.
Just finished a playthrough where I skipped the opening Hometown sequence and... I still got to do the exploration epilogue, which is something of a blatant contradiction to this bit under "Anti-Frustration Features".
>The game notices if you're playing through a second time after completing the game on any file. You can skip the entire opening scene in Hometown by going back to bed, warping you to the Dark World instantly. This also cuts out the Hometown epilogue for that playthrough.
Mind, I did get the egg from the man that's (not) hiding behind the tree, but I severely doubt that'd factor into things. I think it may be best to trash that last sentence altogether.
EDIT: For what it's worth, I got the pacifist ending and also called Toriel before leaving school, but, again, I seriously doubt either of those would have an effect on such a thing.
Edited by Septentrion Hide / Show Replies
I also finished a playthrough like that, and I still got to see the Hometown epilogue. We can remove that incorrect sentence.
He-Who-Must-Be-Named
"Late-Arrival Spoiler: Deltarune spoils a few things about some of the endings for Undertale, such as Asriel's existence." How is Asriel's Existence a spoiler when this is an AU, and as such could have Asriel without him ever having appeared in Undertale?
17 pikachus all in a row.
On "Or Was It a Dream?", it doesn't seem to mention what would happen if you replace the Wooden Sword with the Spooky Sword. Well, your weapon becomes Halloween Pencil upon leaving the dark world, leaving another implication on if it was even a dream in the first place.
(deleted because I couldn't actually use spoiler tags here, I'll put what I was going to say in WMG)
Edited by Lheticus
[[Podcast/FindUsAlive Relax, Ice Queen.]]
Can I get a source on the whole "jumpscares you if you try to record it" thing?
Trope-tan is here! ➯ my pronouns are ze/hir Hide / Show Replies
I don't think any exist, I've seen a few videos and streams of the game where there were no jumpscares, nor am I seeing any discussion of them actually happening. I'm guessing someone wrongly assumed they existed, and when they saw videos without jumpscares, added in the escape hatch "unless it fails to detect your recording software."
Without a source, I suggest throwing that bit out.
Edited by DrTinkletrousers
So, uh. Not wanting to start any flame wars, but what happened to the "REFRAIN FROM DISCUSSION OF THE PROGRAM FOR 24 HOURS" bit?
Hide / Show Replies
Some of us are not scared of Gaster.
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Why do all the pages say that Noelle went on a rampage after freezing Berdly in the Weird Route? Nowhere in-game is that shown, stated, or even implied. The last we see of her is her stumbling away saying "I'm going to go home." It's clear that casting SnowGrave left her exhausted, and Queen wants to "Let Her Close Her Eyes And Sleep Away". All the mayhem in Queen's Mansion was Spamton's doing, and we don't see any more frozen enemies anywhere. I have no idea where the idea of Noelle going one-doe-army mode even came from, and it's even weirder that these pages talk about it as if it were canon.
Edited by thetragicfoolbus Hide / Show Replies