I've contracted it and removed the conversation. I hope.
TV Tropes's No. 1 bread themed lesbian. she/her, fae/faer
The main page currently says: "Ripley attempts to abort the self-destruct sequence, but the ship's computer 'Mother', refuses to acknowledge the cooling system has been activated in the nick of time, and is giving priority to the detonation sequence she initiated." I always thought that Ripley didn't reactivate the cooling system in time, not that Mother is refusing anything. It doesn't make sense for Mother to refuse an order to not self-destruct anyway, unless you assume it was malfunctioning. If the company wants the alien and tampered with Mother to get it then Mother should refuse to self-destruct in the first place.
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.” -Philip K. Dick
It seems to me that the crew of the Betty in Alien: Resurrection plays like a prototypical version of the Serenity's crew:
Elgyn is a clear predecessor of Mal. Christie and Sabra are the male and female version equivalents of Zoe. Vriess is the predecessor of Wash. Johner is a clear predecessor of Jayne. Call, if I had to guess, is the predecessor of Kaylee. Possibly a mix between Kaylee and River.
Despite his negative reception of Resurrection, Joss did get something out of making it.
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Yeah, I totally agree. While I'm glad we got Firefly out of this mess, I just wish we'd gotten a better finished product than we got. Though, I'd rather take Alien: Resurrection over Alien Vs Predator any day of the week.
derflatermouse.
You don't seem to be the only ones who think that way. The book Serenity Found: More Unauthorized Essays on Joss Whedon's Firefly Universe
has an essay by Michael Marano called River Tam and the Weaponized Women of the Whedonverse, where he compares three different productions that Joss Whedon had a hand in: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Series/Angel, and Alien Resurrection. He made the argument that Resurrection was basically a Proto-Firefly, focused on comparing Ripley with River.
Lost in Space
Is the biological adaptation/rape thing Canon in the Aliens universe? Because I cannot remember anything referencing this in the films themselves. Expanded Universe material? Word of God? Fill me in here. Because I'm getting a little sick of reading about all the supposed rape metaphors present in the first film.
Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!" Hide / Show Replies
Well, for starters the thing was designed by H.R. Giger, who from what I could tell put penises in everything and meant to.
The trope entries seem to be referencing Word of God.
On a sidenote, can someone go in and revert all the stuff that last editor ripped out just because it was his/her personal Dis Continuity? I'd do it but it's a rather lot of edits and I'm sorta supposed to be at work just now.
Eh, I'd give it a shot but like I said, I've only watched the movies.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
well there is a load of Freud Was Right imagery. But it's more Does This Remind You of Anything? then outright text. I doubt that's it is cannon that that an An alien sodomised Lambert to death with it's bladed tail. Orifice Invasion is one thing, but the idea of 'Xenomorphs' having actually sex with humans is absurd. I'm fairly sure Word of God shot the idea down in interview when asked about it, correct me if I'm wrong.
Edited by joeyjojo hashtagsarestupid
well there is a load of Freud Was Right imagery. But it's more Does This Remind You of Anything? then outright text. I doubt that's it is cannon that that an An alien sodomised Lambert to death with it's bladed tail. Orifice Invasion is one thing, but the idea of 'Xenomorphs' having actually sex with humans is absurd. I'm fairly sure Word of God shot the idea down in interview when asked about it, correct me if I'm wrong.
Edited by joeyjojo hashtagsarestupid
How is it absurd when the director identified the alien as representing specifically sexual horror? If you have Word of God, show us.
well the biology of it for starters. they no logical reason why the Xenomorph would lust after the human female form other than it's scary. Yes they're design is meant to invoke sexual fears in the audience but that's doesn't mean they do the nasty to their victims in-universe.
Ridley Scott said in interview that he tried to down play Xeno on girl scenes as he knew members of viewer ship would 'get their rocks off' to it.
Now if Ridley Scott said the alien did rape poor lambert then it's cannon, but it's not supported on screen. the Alien only has a molestation window of 30 seconds. Yes they're lightning fast but come on.
Edited by joeyjojo hashtagsarestupid
well the biology of it for starters. they no logical reason why the Xenomorph would lust after the human female form other than it's scary. Yes they're design is meant to invoke sexual fears in the audience but that's doesn't mean they do the nasty to their victims in-universe.
Ridley Scott said in interview that he tried to down play Xeno on girl scenes as he knew members of viewer ship would 'get their rocks off' to it.
Now if Ridley Scott said the alien did rape poor lambert then it's cannon, but it's not supported on screen. the Alien only has a molestation window of 30 seconds. Yes they're lightning fast but come on.
Edited by joeyjojo hashtagsarestupid
It's pointless to argue against it on biological terms if you remember that the Xenomorph is more or less biologically impossible to begin with; especially the bits about it being able to merge/use DNA from carbon based lifeforms since, as I understand, it's silicon based.
And yes, Rule of Scary is explanation enough, considering it's a horror film to begin with.
Saying he tried to "play down" the scenes implies there was something to it to play down. No, it's not shown on screen, but the implication is there based on what we know about the Alien and what little we do see.
There's are fairly bit of Flip-Flop Word Of God with alien biology, but it's not the main issue. The original script did have the facehugger impregnate the traditionally way. but it changed in by final production as the director wasn't comfortable with it.
There is an implication, but it isn't said outright. Now I'm not saying the alien didn't rape anybody but it's not confirm on screen. Saying Xenomorphs cannonly get fresh with people seem like a Fanon assumption unless we can get Word of God to back it up.
Edited by joeyjojo hashtagsarestupid
There's are fairly bit of Flip-Flop Word Of God with alien biology, but it's not the main issue. The original script did have the facehugger impregnate the traditionally way. but it changed in by final production as the director wasn't comfortable with it.
There is an implication, but it isn't said outright. Now I'm not saying the alien didn't rape anybody but it's not confirm on screen. Saying Xenomorphs cannonly get fresh with people seem like a Fanon assumption unless we can get Word of God to back it up.
Edited by joeyjojo hashtagsarestupid
I remember seeing a documentary about the Alien series, including interviews with the cast and crew. Sigourney Weaver described it as "basically a film about rape".
re: Lightning fast xenomorphs. I feel that a quote from Men With Brooms is highly appropriate:
"Quite the hair-trigger you got there." "It's not the size of the army, but the fury of its onslaught."
Also, it's canon, not cannon. If the aliens did anything cannonically, it would probably involve them being launched out of a barrel with a large powder charge. Would certainly make Horatio Hornblower a far freakier show to watch, though no doubt highly entertaining. "NUKE IT FROM ORBIT, MISTER HORNBLOWER!"
Edited by AFP
From what I've read the idea is that when the alien adopts characteristics from its host it's not limited to how just how it walks or moves. I've seen Ridley Scott quoted as saying that among the traits the original alien inherited from Kane was his sexual urges and that the scene with Lambert was the alien acting on that. However I've only seen this quote second-hand so I have no idea if Scott actually has said it or not.
Also featuring predatory creatures known as the dragonmen.
http://www.wheredragonsonlydare.com
Came across this bit:
- MegaCorp: Weyland-Yutani is the very epitome of this trope. They control every Earth government and have colonized many star systems. Not only that, but they have a private army with a Bioweapons Division. They have prison planets as well, such as the one in the third movie. The fourth movie changes this up by referring to megacorps like Weyland-Yutani as a thing of the past, though the government that replaces them is just as bad, if not worse.
I don't quite recall, but while the rest of these points are good descriptions of the company, I think it was never stated in the films that W-Y controls every Earth government. Is this something from Expanded Universe stuff or supplementary materials?
Edited by khalini
Just thinking of how best to tackle the comics. I read these all the time when I was a teenager, and I'm sure a few other tropers did as well, so keeping some sort of record of their content seems like a good idea. What would be better — a separate folder, or a separate page?
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Yeah, I totally read as many as I could get my hands on (Never did getting the concluding issue for ''Aliens: Genocide".) (Sigh)
I think a separate page would be in order. This page is getting cluttered enough with just the movies.
derflatermouse.
According to Tvtropes' adminstravia pages, best solution would be a separate page.
"For those that would like to know the reason, Joss Whedon wrote it as a camp parody, while Jean Pierre Jeunet wanted High Octane Nightmare Fuel and for some reason didn't throw Joss' script in a trash can."
My understanding is that the opposite is the case. Jeunet wanted to parody American action movies and Whedon wanted to make an homage to, you know, one of his favorite films of all time, which he has payed homage to multiple times in all his shows...
Nor sure where I read it, though.
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Lost in Space
Alright, this is going a bit far:
- Complete Monster - The titular aliens are genetically engineered to be this. In order to be the ultimate predator to the dominant species on a planet, they absorb characteristics of their host (for example, aliens that burst out of humans are bipedal) Thus, the first alien an embodiment of the darkest sides of the human male psyche. Since we know that aliens reproduce through a Queen laying eggs, the males rape human women for their own sick enjoyment as seen in the first movie. After slaughtering all men on the spacecraft, the alien takes its time torturing Lambert and raping her to death with its bladed tail.
- The concept of the alien as a Complete Monster is thoroughly deconstructed in the Dark Horse Comics special Aliens: Sacrifice by Peter Milligan, in which a missionary finds herself stranded on a backwater planet and discovers that the human colonists have been growing cloned babies in tanks and offering them to a lone, crazed alien as a blood sacrifice to prevent it from eating the entire colony. A trap is set, and the missionary - alone in a pit with the alien, which she perceives as thoroughly demonic - is rendered permanently blind by the detonation of the grenade the colonists use to kill the creature. In the dark, she realizes that she is alone - there is no God, and the alien, a creature akin to a force of nature, no more evil than a volcano or a hurricane, is most certainly not the Devil.
- Another Complete Monster is Carter Burke. This is the man placed in charge of the LV-426 colonization for the sole purpose of having them all impregnated with Aliens. (Or at the very least, sent them to check out Ripley's story without offering any sort of warning.) In other words, he started the entire film's conflict. Later, he emotionally manipulates Ripley into joining the Space Marines (presumably to get ideas on how to smuggle impregnated humans back to Weyland-Yutani), and locks her and a young girl in a room with Facehuggers. All this on top of being one of the most Dirty Cowards in film history. Ripley states it best:
"You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage."
Seriously, folks, the Aliens cannot be Complete Monsters because they have no choice; they were designed to be the way they are. It's not a moral issue; they are simply doing what they are supposed to do. It's like calling The Virus a Complete Monster. Maybe the people who created them, but we don't see them on-screen so it's a moot point.
Similarly, Burke? He's a moral coward, yes. Evil, to a certain extent - certainly evil in the sense that expediency is evil. But to be a Complete Monster requires intent, not merely callousness and a bureaucratic mindset.
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Ah but What Is Evil?? they are blood thirsty monsters, but your right they animals and don't act on malice.
Edited by joeyjojo hashtagsarestupid
Ah but What Is Evil?? they are blood thirsty monsters, but your right they animals and don't act on malice.
Edited by joeyjojo hashtagsarestupid
Burke? Intent? The guy who locked a woman and a ten year old into a room to be impregnated by alien horrors and planned to murder the rest of the crew so his superiors could then experiment on them? That Burke?
Burke is not doing evil for evil's sake; his actions are entirely due to moral cowardice. That does not make him a Complete Monster. Certainly trying to get Newt and Ripley impregnated counts as his Moral Event Horizon for the majority of viewers, but part of the definition of the CM is that they are already over that horizon from the beginning. You don't "graduate" to CM over the course of a story.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Here is the criteria for Complete Monster status, as per its own page: 1.The character must personally commit actions that are truly heinous by the standards of the story, which makes no attempt to gloss these over or present them in a positive light. Offstage Villainy doesn't count; the story has to show the actions, not imply them. Actions that become inconsequential through Negative Continuity don't count either. A Complete Monster is implied to have crossed the Moral Event Horizon either during the story or long before it, but a character can cross the Moral Event Horizon without necessarily being a Complete Monster. 2.The character's terribleness must be played seriously at all times, evoking fear, revulsion and/or hatred from the other characters in the story. If there are other villains around who aren't this trope, they are afraid of/dislike this person, too — Even Evil Has Standards, after all (and in particularly disturbing stories with particularly evil villains, even lesser Complete Monsters may fear such a character). If they're Played for Laughs, the character is usually just Evilly Affable at worst, but can still be one if done right. If the character is not taken seriously at all, they fail to qualify. 3.There is no adequate justification or Freudian Excuse to balance out the misdeeds. That is to say, while there may be a sad backstory present, it must in no way be able to excuse the heinous evil deeds the character commits. 4.Characters that fit this trope must be completely devoid of altruistic qualities. By the same token, they must show no regret for their crimes regardless of how horrible they may be. It is more fitting for the CM to enjoy the devastation created by their actions but complete indifference toward it will suffice. 5.Most importantly, the character must have no chance of redemption, at least not without being considered a Karma Houdini. The only way the story could come to anything resembling a Happy Ending is a Karmic Death, a Fate Worse than Death or at the very least removal from the story. A Heel Face Turn, even of the Redemption Equals Death variety, is out of the question, and nobody would believe it if it happened.
I was all about letting Burke keep his Complete Monster status, but the fact that he tries to gloss over his actions goes directly against #1. He's not a Complete Monster, he's just a dispicable coward. That said, however, it's safe to say that Complete Monster is invoked by Ripley with that spot-on quote.
Edited by frodobatmanvader derflatermouse.
#1 says the story can't gloss them over, not that the character can't.
Edited by MrDeath
I think we should organize this page to list the tropes by movie, to help prevent spoilers for those of us who haven't been through the entire series. Figure a folder each for the three films (the pothole is a joke, I assure you) and a folder for less-canon franchise stuff like the comics?
I'd do it, but I've only seen Aliens (Imagine if Cameron made that movie today), and wouldn't be able to tell a lot of the other stuff apart.
Artistic License – Biology currently contains natter. Anyone willing to revise that section? I can't think of a way to rewrite it without outright clearing the two sub-points.
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