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Misused: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

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To-do list:

  • Incorruptible Pure Pureness was renamed to to The Incorruptible and redefined to refer to characters who are portrayed in-universe as untemptable/incorruptible. Sandbox.The Incorruptible can be used for the rewrite.
  • Clean up examples by removing examples that do not refer to characters who are portrayed in-universe as untemptable/incorruptible.
    • Clean up on-page examples.
    • Remove wicks that do not fit the revised definition and move wicks that do fit the revised definition to The Incorruptible.

    Original post 

OP credits go to Zerukin

The Problem: Incorruptible Pure Pureness is supposed to be the heroic inverse of Complete Monster (which I should point out is YMMV) as it lists characters who are heavily admirable and are completely devoid of corrupting qualities.

The issue is that this makes it where a majority of the examples are essentially opinion based (again much like Complete Monster) as most examples don't necessarily acknowledge the characters as pure in-universe. Not only that, but some leave out details of the characters claimed as examples that would prove they don't count as those details show that they do have corrupting qualities that they don't subvert or break free from.

Not only that, but some of the examples are of characters that have moral agency issues that render it difficult or impossible to determine right from wrong.

Wick Check: I found out somebody already made an empty wick check sandbox. I messaged them with no response after a few days, so I have put my findings there.

  • 9 examples I looked at so far could very well count.
  • 8 examples claim them to be pure in-universe, but the characters themselves either don't demonstrate it or have blatant corrupting qualities.
  • 7 examples detail characters that have blatant corrupting qualities that the description either fails to take note of or blatantly states.
  • 2 examples are of a character with moral agency issues.
  • 2 examples are player influenced, which means that these character could be corruptible if influenced by the player.
  • 1 example features many of the above issues.
  • 1 example is a possibly inverted in-universe example.
  • 3 examples have details that have nothing to do with purity.
  • 22 examples have little to no context.

Total so far:

  • 9 potentially correct examples.
  • 8 in-universe examples.
  • 37 incorrect examples.
  • 1 example that just baffles me.

Given how many are incorrect compared to correct (especially with how a majority of them having no context behind them), this is not a good look. Even the in-universe ones, while claiming the characters to be incorruptible, demonstrate them with corrupting qualities showing that they are corruptible despite the series claiming otherwise.

Analysis: The trope does honestly come off as opinion based as even the examples that are potentially correct can still be considered YMMV. Meanwhile the examples that claim the characters to be pure in-universe while still having them demonstrate otherwise could be on a trope dedicated to in-universe examples.

Possible Solution: Split this trope into two tropes. Have one trope specifically for in-universe examples of a character proclaimed to be incorruptible pure of heart to have that serve as the opposite of You Monster!, and have a YMMV trope that functions similar to Complete Monster by having people make Effort Posts to determine if a character truly counts as pure of heart. We could even have the ymmv version be called Pure of Heart as Incorruptible Pure Pureness is honestly a bit of a mouthful of a tongue twister anyway... Of course, if people prefer, we could also do a title crowner. I do have some other title ideas that I can share (some I am in favor of, some not so much).

Wick check:

Incorruptible Pure Pureness is about admirable characters pure of heart who aim for admirable deeds.

A little more than 50 wicks have been checked.

Wicks: 55/50


    open/close all folders 

    Potentially accurate 
  • Papyrus of VideoGame.Undertale is always cheerful, upstanding, and refuses to give in to bitterness or despair. Even being killed on a No Mercy run doesn't stop him from believing the idea that even the worst people might still have a bit of goodness inside them somewhere.
  • Franchise.Kirby: While he does tend to be quite an Idiot Hero of a Cloud Cuckoo Lander, Kirby is revealed to be this in Kirby Mass Attack. Reason? He has the Heroic Heart, which resembles a star, that got separated from his main body when Kirby was split into ten and almost wiped out of existence by Necrodeus. Even after he was split, his heroic heart remains, and offers for itself and the ten Kirbys to fight Necrodeus together.
    • It's notable that even in a mirror world where every good character has their morality flipped, Kirby's counterpart is still on the side of good and only attacks you because he thinks you're an evil invader.
  • WesternAnimation.Samurai Jack isn't pure; several times it's shown he has a serious rage problem, lashing out at his surroundings when things get exceptionally bad. His sword, though, was forged by the gods out of pure righteousness and cannot harm the innocent when in the hands of evil. It's so aligned with good that it abandons Jack for fifty years when he gives in to his rage and doesn't return until he's mastered his anger and regained his good side. Given how he manages to subvert his corrupting quality, this one can very well be accurate.
  • Series.Bakuryuu Sentai Abaranger has Hakuya Ryouga, whose character is defined by his inability to hate anyone, no matter what. A monster-of-the-week weapon that showed Yukito visions of his emotionally abusive father didn't affect Ryouga at all. His opposite number is Abarekiller, who terrorizes people because he thinks it's more exciting than being a good guy...but this just means Ryouga can prove his All-Loving Hero cred beyond doubt.
  • WesternAnimation.Wander Over Yonder: Wander. As an eternal optimist who sees the good in everyone, Wander will stop at nothing to help even the cruelest of villains find their way onto the path of good. However, he is unable to reform Lord Hater, and by a bigger expense, Lord Dominator.
  • WesternAnimation.All Dogs Go To Heaven 2: Charlie Barkin's best friend, Itchy Itchiford the dachshund, displays this trope in the sequel to Don Bluth's classic All Dogs Go To Heaven. It begins in Heaven, with Annabelle, the whippet angel, telling Charlie to retrieve Gabriel's horn (which has been stolen by Carface). The horn has landed in San Francisco, and gives off a heavenly tone that is audible only to angels. Knowing that Charlie is apt to make mischief, Annabelle sends Itchy with him. Itchy reminds his friend that they have to find Gabriel's horn, "and then it's straight back to Heaven". Charlie, however, has his heart set on Sasha La Fleur, an attractive Irish setter. She can't sense the presence of him or of Itchy, because they're angels, but Carface offers a "solution" to this; he introduces them to his friend Red (who appears to them as an elderly fortune teller bloodhound, but is actually a human-sized cat demon who seeks to steal Gabriel's horn for himself), who provides each of them with a collar that will render them flesh and blood, but only until sunset the next day. Red has also given such a collar to Carface (in exchange for his soul, it is later revealed; Carface misinterprets this as "sole", the bottom of a shoe). Itchy constantly reminds Charlie about retrieving Gabriel's horn, but Charlie constantly tries to impress Sasha. He and she help convince David, an 8-year-old runaway boy, to return home. David explains to them that he's having problems with his stepmom ("She wants me to call her 'Mom', but she's not"). She and David's father are going to have a baby soon. David agrees that he will return home if Charlie goes with him, and Charlie promises. Charlie succeeds in winning Sasha's love—but just as this happens, the collars vanish, and he and Itchy are once again "insubstantial", as Red put it. Charlie then goes back to Red for a new collar. Red agrees to this—after Charlie has offered him Gabriel's horn in exchange. Red then reveals his fiendish feline form to Charlie and Itchy. Charlie then brings Red the horn, and Red plays it and all of the angel dogs are drawn out of Heaven into the island prison Alcatraz. As Charlie, Itchy, and Sasha are about to take David home by rowboat, they see what Red is doing, and Itchy says that they have to do something. Charlie realizes that it's his own fault, and that he's the one who has to do something. Red then turns himself into a 40-foot-tall giant cat demon, and just as he's about to destroy Charlie, Red is stopped by Itchy, Sasha, and David, who have chained him by his tail to a water pipe. Red soon breaks free, and as he's caught Charlie, Sasha, and David, Itchy lunges at him and takes the horn (which Red has been wearing as a ring). Even though Itchy could easily play the horn himself, he distracts Red and manages to give Charlie the horn. Later, Charlie plays it, and all of the angel dogs are released from Alcatraz back into Heaven, and Red and Carface are drawn back into "the other place". The situation would have been resolved much more quickly if Annabelle had sent Itchy to San Francisco alone. Charlie admits that he couldn't have done it without Itchy. This one could possibly work, but it most certainly needs to be condensed as this detail is so big that it feels like it would be more of an effort post than an example writeup.
  • Jun Kazama from the Franchise.Tekken series. It may be such an incredible level of purity that even becoming Unknown hasn't eliminated it. When she returns in Tekken 8, she still radiates with purity that she still sees the potential to redeem her lover, Kazuya Mishima, who in the meantime has racked up even more atrocities that most people would just see him as Beyond Redemption; such thought does not ruin her pure intention to save. While initially lacking context, the addition of Tekken 8 makes it where she might qualify.
  • WesternAnimation.A Bugs Life: Flik remains completely loyal to his colony and his desire to help and protect it. The only time he gives up is when he and the "warriors" are sent away by Atta, but he gets back on his feet.
  • VisualNovel.Akai Ito: Yumei-san. She never take Kei's blood without the latter's consent, she never snaps, she never gets angry at Kei even though her current state is, at least marginally, Kei's fault, she stands vigilant as an Ohashira-sama for about ten lonely years, she saves Kei all the time, etc etc and so on. She stands in stark contrast to another vampirism-capable ghost, Nozomi.
    • In fact, Yumei's theme song was later made into an Image Song (with vocal!), which nicely sums Kei's story in Akai Ito.

    Stated In-universe, but not shown to be Pure 
  • VideoGame.Kingdom Hearts I: The Princesses of Heart (Alice, Jasmine, Snow White, Belle, Cinderella, Aurora, and Kairi) are, by definition, seven maidens of Incorruptible Pure Pureness. There is no darkness in their hearts whatsoever, which gives them strange powers and makes them a Cosmic Keystone when assembled. In later games, the new Organization XIII considers using Rapunzel, Elsa, and Anna as new Princesses of Heart. While this could count as an in-universe example, they don't exactly do anything to really show their purity within the franchise.
  • Madeline Goodlaw, the paladin from Webcomic.Rusty And Co is so pure that a spell designed to give the evil inside her physical form results in an "Anti-Madeline" that is two inches tall. Good as an in-universe example, but doesn't detail her admirability.
  • Manga.One Piece: Monkey D. Luffy is possibly a deconstruction. He doesn’t see himself as a hero (and adamantly states he isn’t one), and yet, despite often being self-serving and reckless, Luffy is still innocent and carefree, with no ill intentions at all. He never actually does anything out of malice either because of his moral values or his naïveté. He is also unable to feel temptation or lust as Hancock's beauty has no effect on him; also in Cross Epoch Luffy is shown being able to ride the Flying Nimbus meaning he is truly pure of heart. Good details for an in-universe example, but the fact he can be self-serving and reckless doesn't exactly come off as pure.
  • Played for laughs in a story in ComicBook.Judge Dredd, where the titular Judge is kidnapped by a fiend-worshipping cult who need to sacrifice a pure soul. An incredulous Dredd asks why they would target him for the role, as he's well aware that he's a brutal enforcer for a neo-fascist authoritarian regime and an all-around asshole besides. They reply that his absolute dedication to enforcing the law fairly and aversion to corruption marks him as "an acceptable substitute", given the Crapsack World they live in. Good as an in-universe example, but blatantly admits that Judge Dredd is not pure.
  • Fanfic.SAPR: Literally the case of Ruby Rose. She is explicitly described as being so pure of heart that telepathic communication with her wipes away negative feelings in people. Sunset herself describes the inside of Ruby's soul like a vast warm white light. A good in-universe example, but does the Ruby perform anything to demonstrate such purity?
  • Film.Scooby Doo, according to the live-action movie. It is for this specific reason the daemons go after him. While he's a dog, he has the sentience of a human, and the same ability to make good and bad choices — but the worst choice he makes is being a bit of a glutton (getting snarly when his friends are threatened doesn't count). A good in-universe example, but his gluttony is too blatant of a corrupting factor for him to actually be pure.
  • Film.Barbarella cannot be consumed by the Mathmos because of her innocence. Could be an in-universe example. Does she do anything admirable enough to be considered pure though?
  • WesternAnimation.Adventure Time: It's eventually revealed that Finn Mertens is pure good since he is the Reincarnation of the Blue Catalyst Comet, which incarnated as a butterfly, a symbol of rebirth. His goodness extends to the point that he tries to beat his purity into others. This is noticeable in the episode "Goliad": when the golem that Princess Bubblegum created turns evil, what does she do to stop it? Make a new one with Finn's DNA instead of her own. The original tries to invoke We Can Rule Together, but because of the pureness, it refuses and sacrifices itself to stop the other. On another occasion, the Lich uses Finn's innocence against him to open up a portal to the multiverse by a means Finn thought would prevent it. Throughout the series, he also has helped countless characters. Despite his Blood Knight tendencies and Hot-Blooded moments, Finn is still a purely good person deep down. Good In-universe example, but his Blood Knight and Hot-Blooded moments are still too corrupting of qualities along with having moments of recklessness.

    Misuse: General goodness goodies and whatnot 
  • Funny.Dragon Ball Z Abridged: Bulma gets a particularly special one this time: while the boys were busy fighting the doubles of Freeza, Cooler, Slug and Turles to no avail, Bulma was taking samples of the pollution brought to the Earth by the machines; deducing it to be pure Naughtiness, she derives an antidote using samples of Baby Trunks' blood, then dispenses it in capsules to destroy the machines from the inside out, rendering the doubles vulnerable to complete destruction. Then she flew off to go after African drug lords. All in all, a nice way to send off Bulma, along with Hiromi Tsuru. Trunks is a baby and thus hasn't developed an actual moral agency.
  • WesternAnimation.Kim Possible: Miss Go; justified because she is the exact opposite of Shego via a Mirror Morality Machine. Miss Go is Shego turned good thanks to a Mirror Morality Machine, meaning she has moral agency issues.

    Misuse: Demonstrates Corrupting Factors 
  • Depending on the Writer, Franchise.Batman also counts as a not exactly nice example. The Dark Knight has the Joker enjoying this fact, as the truly incorruptible Batman provides him an eternal opponent. While there are examples of a pure good Batman, the fact this states that Batman is a case of Good Is Not Nice blatantly contradicts the idea that Batman in the comics is pure.
    • Batman is sometimes depicted as being more incorruptible than Superman. The difference between them seems to be that Superman doesn't want to cross the line, where Batman does but simply can't bring himself to do it. Thus, Superman is good out of a desire to be good, while Batman is good because he is unable to be anything else, which makes him the incorruptible one. So he wants to do bad but can't? That sounds like a case of moral agency issues than actually being pure.
  • Manga.Dragon Ball: Future Trunks is another example, which is amazing in itself, since Trunks' parents are Bulma and Vegeta, two of the most selfish people in the whole series. Though considering Trunks was raised in the Bad Future where humanity's survival was the most important thing to him, becoming a polite selfless heroic Nice Guy was unavoidable. Present Trunks who had none of the aforementioned experience grew up to be a Spoiled Brat who's almost The Scrappy by comparison. This neglects the important detail of how he needlessly and violently slashed Frieza to pieces and mercilessly killed King Cold. Even if Frieza is a Complete Monster and Cold attempted to kill him, this level of brutality shows he does not count.
    • On that note, The trope is listed on character pages with the statement of this being the reason they can ride the nimbus cloud. While that works as an in-universe example, it doesn't give further context how they are pure.
  • Pit and Dark Pit from VideoGame.Kid Icarus Uprising have shown themselves to be this. The best example is the Mirror of Truth, which is supposed to reflect the dark side of someone who looks into it. Pandora tricked Pit into breaking it and creating Dark Pit, but Dark Pit ends up being neutral at worst. However, the game implies that Dark Pit is just as pure or more pure-hearted than Pit, as shown in the Chaos Kin arc. Viridi says that the Chaos Kin only feeds on the purest of souls and the Chaos Kin idol states that Dark Pit was needed to be revived. Hades also says that Pittoo's soul is different from the rest of the souls he could eat. In other words, Pit's darkness is also pure, which says something about his character. While Pit can definitely count, Dark Pit has WAY too many jerk moments to actually be pure.
  • Daisy of Bittersweet Candy Bowl is perceived this way, especially by Paulo, but she isn't quite as incorruptible as it might seem, though she is very chipper and generally chipper and happy. Though in her dreams... It outright states she isn't incorruptible.
  • Manga.Akame Ga Kill: Tatsumi is the only member of Night Raid who respects others. He has faith that the team can save the Capital of the country from corruption, but unlike his teammates, he has an optimistic hope for a brighter tomorrow and sees good within his fellow assassins, encouraging them to grow into kinder people. It's also one of the reasons why many female assassins develop an interest in him. Even if Tatsumi is the nicest member of his team of assassins, he is still an assassin which is too corrupting.
  • GoodIsNotNice.Other Media: Warhammer 40,000: The Adepta Sororitas are described as "shining examples of all that is good about humanity" by numerous Games Workshop sources. Even what are unequivocally the nicest of the Sisters, the Sisters Hospitaller who are beloved across the Imperium as saints for their tireless (and almost always selfless) medical work, will gladly torture a heretic for information and then kill them in a very painful way. If they are willing and happy to torture and kill somebody, no matter how much of a heretic they are, that is definitely a corrupting quality.
  • WesternAnimation.The Ghost And Molly Mc Gee: Molly's cheerfulness and optimism is so strong, she isn't scared of Scratch and cannot be cursed by him, thus she curses him instead. Though subverted in "The (Un)natural" where Scratch manages to convince her that cheating at softball is okay if it helps the Lemmings and the town and she struggles with it throughout the episode before finally refusing to keep cheating. She weaponizes this in the season 1 finale to save Scratch, Geoff, and the other ghosts in the Flow of Failed Phantoms on top of turning the Chairman into a robe full of flowers. While Molly is very optimistic to the point that her ghost form effectively radiates good (Hm... that could be a good name for a trope actually), she has also shown to have plenty of jerkass moments that prove she isn't pure, including her sabotage of Andrea's filming (even if it was originally her film, Molly motivating Scratch to terrorize everybody was cruel), trying to force Libby to have her idea of a bat mitzvah, and has plenty of moments she is willing to cheat. The show is still ongoing there, so there is at least possibility of her possibly shedding these corrupting qualities in the future.

    Misuse: Misc. 
  • In VideoGame.The Binding Of Isaac, tears will turn bloody after damage goes over a certain value. With Sacred Heart, tears will stay white and holy no matter how, as long as Isaac shoots tears. It will also negate the aesthetic effect of many powerups. This has nothing to do with a character being incorruptible.
  • A completely Paragon Commander Shepard from Franchise.Mass Effect falls square in this category. Of course, being the greatest soldier in the galaxy, s/he will end up with a body count few can rival, but his/her pureness can be high enough to convince heavily indoctrinated individuals to commit suicide instead of fighting him/her. Twice. S/He also has quite the effect on various mob bosses: one of them can go from ruthless to respectable leader of a space station, while another can be convinced to turn to charity work instead. However, to truly fit the trope, the player must refrain from using any Renegade Interrupt. That's right, even the blade-breaking one. Morality is player influenced, meaning that if Paragon can count here, renegade would count as Complete Monster, which it doesn't due to the aforementioned reason.
  • Franchise.Dragon Age: It depends on player choices; but the Warden, Hawke, and the Inquisitor can all be played this way in the games. If the morality is player influenced, then can the character really count as incorruptible?
  • Oddly enough, of all people Norrin Radd, aka the Silver Surfer, often has this trait. Despite being the herald of a world-eating Eldritch Abomination. One of the reasons they call him Space Surfer Jesus. The main description doesn't provide any details on why Silver Surfer is pure. Meanwhile, the problem with the included quote below is that having a will not kill code is pretty bog standard when it comes to heroes.
    Silver Surfer: I will not kill.
    Galactus: Yet you serve Galactus once more.
    Silver Surfer: I will not kill.
  • For many of her music video clips, Music.Taylor Swift would often wear a white dress signifying this trope. But times change. And how does wearing a white dress signify this trope? Also the fact it says times change? While there is a little bit of context, it still doesn't make sense as what context there is indicates that it isn't incorruptible.
  • AffablyEvil.Web Animation: If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device: Curiously inverted with the Star Child when he's visiting the Dark Eldar: he plays the trope completely straight except that he's good rather than evil. Since it's emphasised that he's a being of compassion and Incorruptible Pure Pureness, his affability is presumably genuine — but he's also perfectly aware it's literally killing the Dark Eldar, who are fuelled by suffering. It's presumably an example of Good Is Not Soft against irredeemably evil opponents, except that if it's genuine, he also genuinely regards them as his friends, so it seems also like a case of Double Think. Besides, they're almost okay with dying because Good Feels Good even when it's killing you. Many things wrong with this. To start, he sounds like he is a major case of Good Is Not Nice as he is knowingly killing the Dark Eldar with kindness and being perfectly fine with it. Not to mention, the fact he is supposed to be nothing but the emperor's goodness indicates moral agency issues as he is Made of Good.
  • VillainProtagonist.Western Animation: A weird in-universe example mixed with Deliberate Values Dissonance in an episode of Avatar: The Last Airbender, the Play Within A Show "The Boy In The Iceberg" stars actors playing the Gaang as protagonists, with Ozai as the main antagonist. As all the characters are exaggerated parodies of the "real" people, the play version of Aang is a Wide-Eyed Idealist with Incorruptible Pure Pureness, whereas Ozai is a flamboyant Card-Carrying Villain; however, at the end of the play, when Ozai brutally kills Aang, the audience gives it a standing ovation. Although the viewers know that Aang is The Hero and Ozai is a monster, due to a century of propaganda and cultural conditioning, as far as the Fire Nation rank and file is concerned, Aang is the play's Villain Protagonist, despite not actually committing any evil acts onstage. This one just confuses me. While Aang himself could potentially count, the version of him in this play is supposed to be a villain protagonist from the perspective of the in-universe audience. As such, this would make the play Aang be considered an inverted in-universe example as they were meant to be seen as a villain by the in-universe audience.

    Lacking context 
  • Manga.One Piece: Other examples of this include: Coby, Vivi, Kaya, Conis, Gan Fall, Rebecca, Shirahoshi, Sabo, Tom, Queen Otohime, and Vinsmoke Sora. These are just a list of characters with no context on any of them.
  • Fraser in Series.Due South. He's a mountie, gosh darn it! What does being a mountie have to do with being pure of heart? Not to mention how there is no context anyway.
  • Manga.Angel Densetsu: Seiichiro Kitano is the scariest character to be incorruptibly pure. Zero-Context Example
  • The VideoGame.MOTHER series gives us a lot of examples, each of the protagonists; Ninten, Ness, and Lucas. EarthBound Beginnings has Ana and Queen Mary, EarthBound (1994) has Paula, and Mother 3 has Hinawa. List of characters with no context for any of them.
  • WesternAnimation.Jimmy Two Shoes. The entire show is about a guy who is The Pollyanna living in what is pretty much Hell by another name. How does this detail that they are Pure?
  • WesternAnimation.Avatar The Last Airbender: Avatar Aang aims for this. He has faltered (especially when Appa and Katara were endangered), but in the end, he achieves this. While I do feel that Aang could very well count, there isn't much in terms of context here to demonstrate this.
  • Anime.Ginga Densetsu Weed: Weed's son, Sirius, is this trope as well (perhaps even more-so). Zero Context Example
  • Anime.Wolfs Rain: Cheza is a pure character. She does not hate or do evil. Not enough context.
  • First and foremost, Hartigan in Sin City. Largely a modern form of Galahad, the Perfect Knight. And he pulls it off in Sin City of all settings. And how does he pull it off?
  • ComicBook.Suske En Wiske: Suske is so incorruptible that he is generally the blandest of all the main characters. No context and also sounds kinda complainy.
  • In FNAF Crossover All Star, Adrian Clements defeats many villains and they all try to corrupt him, but it always backfires. What does Adrian do to show he is pure?
  • Ophelia and her baby brother from the movie Film.Pans Labyrinth both represent purity. Zero-Context example
  • Pvt. Witt, the messianic protagonist of Film.The Thin Red Line. A case of Adaptational Heroism, since he is a fairly regular guy in the book. Zero-Context example
  • Informed Attribute of the title character in Film.Warrior Of The Lost World. Zero-Context example
  • Sgt. Howie in Film.The Wicker Man 1973. A pure hero. Zero-Context example
  • Kayla from Webcomic.Zoophobia. Compassionate and kind to a fault, she goes out of her way to make others feel accepted. Not enough context
  • WesternAnimation.Aqua Teen Hunger Force: Ol' Drippy is a being made of moss who commits such kindhearted acts that not even Shake's insults manage to faze him. And what are those kindhearted acts?
  • Raki from Manga.Claymore is like that. In fact, this is his only real ability, in a world where humans can not do much against the monsters. Zero Context Example
  • Galahad in Webcomic.Arthur King Of Time And Space: The example only provides a quote which is cannot count as context.
  • The whole point of Ultima IV is for the main protagonist to become this. Zero Context Example
  • WebAnimation.The Most Popular Girls In School: Amberlynn Weggers combines this with Hair of Gold, Heart of Gold. Zero Context Example
  • Literature.Justice Wing: Paragon. “I lied before. I know he’s not a freak. He’s completely not a freak, or a pocket bad guy, or harboring a secret agenda. I know that, because I opposed him, for just a moment — a terrible, horrible moment where I learned what it was to be Paragon’s opposite. He’s good through and through. He won’t ever abuse his power because he doesn’t have it in him. He won’t ever value his own life over anyone’s — even someone we find irredeemably evil. I swear to God, it’s like someone took all the power of Captain Prestige and then gave it to Mister Rogers!” –Antonym, ''The Excelsiors, Reaching Higher'' Quotes are not acceptable examples for context.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 2nd 2023 at 3:36:12 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#26: Aug 22nd 2023 at 7:30:17 AM

Complete Paradigm? Total Virtue?

Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 22nd 2023 at 10:37:48 AM

Rawr.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#27: Aug 22nd 2023 at 8:15:21 AM

I suppose remove the "original" description and focus on it's current use described here. I think it being "the opposite of Complete Monster" is just one line that clashes with the rest of the page, and pretty much everyone is used to it being "cute character resists depression and The Corrupter".

Edited by Amonimus on Aug 22nd 2023 at 6:41:03 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#28: Aug 22nd 2023 at 8:36:54 AM

[up]I previously mentioned tightening the description, and I think that would work.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#29: Aug 22nd 2023 at 8:59:00 AM

[up][up]Disagree. I say go with the original intention since it's more objective and thus far less prone to Trope Decay.

ETA: wait, what do you mean by original description? we might actually be agreeing, but i'm slightly confused lol

ETA 2: [down]Ah yeah we are agreeing then. Thanks for the clarification

Edited by amathieu13 on Aug 22nd 2023 at 9:16:41 AM

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#30: Aug 22nd 2023 at 9:06:19 AM

I may have the two mixed up chronologically but the point stands.

The OP states "Incorruptible Pure Pureness is supposed to be the heroic inverse of Complete Monster". I don't believe that, because the TLP does mention it, and Incorruptible Pure Pureness only mentions Complete Monster near the end, which contradicts the rest of the description. It's also a misunderstanding to call Complete Monster a "pure evil" character, as it long has been moved to a special audience reaction.

So I'd say just remove the last to second paragraph and the trope is fine as-is and I don't think we need Complete Goodness YMMV with own effortpost thread.

Edited by Amonimus on Aug 22nd 2023 at 7:08:06 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
StalkerGamer Hi! :3 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Love is an open door
Hi! :3
#31: Aug 22nd 2023 at 9:14:13 AM

If Incorruptible Pure Pureness is supposed to be the inverse of Complete Monster, then shouldn't be YMMV ? Anyway, while that would be interesting to have a Complete Goodness here, that would be a very time-consuming, so I vote for no YMMV.

badtothebaritone (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Snooping as usual
#32: Aug 22nd 2023 at 9:20:50 AM

Considering what happened to Hate Sink, I doubt the mods are on board with anything more requiring EPs, either. Keep it objective.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Aug 22nd 2023 at 11:21:11 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from tall grass (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#33: Aug 22nd 2023 at 9:21:58 AM

I personally think that whether we do a YMMV or whatever depends on if there is a verifiable pattern worthy of discussion. I can understand the reticence with the effortpost thing, but worst case scenario, it can be yarded unless and until we decide it's worth the trouble.

Also, speaking as someone who contributed to the Hate Sink issue, I think effortposts for Hate Sink were already superfluous (as much as I wanted to think they were not), inasmuch as you just need to prove that a character was deliberately written as detestable. With Complete Monster, there are different levels of bad, and creator's intent is not strictly necessary.

[down] Fair enough.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Aug 22nd 2023 at 2:09:05 PM

Rawr.
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#34: Aug 22nd 2023 at 11:02:24 AM

I mean, yeah a character who has been shown to resist temptation and corruption when others are generally unable to is a valid and objective definition, and far more easy to pin down than just "pure good inverse of Complete Monster", especially as "evil" can at least be defined as doing heinous actions to others without remorse. "Goodness" is much harder to describe, since it's so much vaguer and can mean anything from "doing good things for others for purely altruistic reasons" to "being an All-Loving Hero" to "not having any flaws or vices or motives beyond only doing what's good". Goodness is also rather subjective as what some people consider heroic may be seen as evil or misguided to someone else (while everyone can agree that the things done by CM are objectively evil even if you agree that morality can be a subjective concept; rape, murder, torture, etc are pretty universally frowned upon).

So yeah, if this trope can be saved then it should focus more on the "cannot be corrupted or tempted" aspect and less on the "super perfect pure good person" aspect.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Echidna from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2021 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#35: Aug 22nd 2023 at 11:57:12 AM

[up] That’s fair honestly considering the discussion so far.

CompletelyNormalGuy Am I a weirdo? from that rainy city where they throw fish (Oldest One in the Book)
Am I a weirdo?
#36: Aug 22nd 2023 at 5:47:41 PM

"Character who can't be corrupted or tempted" definitely seems like a valid trope, and is what I always thought this trope referred to.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Just stoic wisdom.
#37: Aug 22nd 2023 at 6:17:12 PM

[up] Agree. Didn't know there was so much YMMV, tbh.

Edited by Yindee on Aug 22nd 2023 at 9:18:47 AM

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GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#38: Aug 22nd 2023 at 8:31:02 PM

I'm against making this YMMV or requiring effort posts, and I don't see anything subjective about a character who can't be corrupted or tempted.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 22nd 2023 at 10:31:23 AM

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TheTropper Good freakin' griefer from Allentown (Unitroper) Relationship Status: On the fine, fine line
Good freakin' griefer
#39: Aug 23rd 2023 at 12:10:39 AM

[tdown] for making this YMMV and effort posts. Just not enough designation to make it one, I'm leaning towards focusing on In-Universe examples only pending other suggestions.

Your receipt. You can keep the freakin' change.
Acebrock He/Him from So-Cal Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
He/Him
#40: Aug 23rd 2023 at 2:16:27 AM

Yeah count me against YMMV + effortposts as well. I really don't like pages that require dedicated threads for examples, and really don't think we need another one.

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MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#42: Aug 26th 2023 at 3:45:44 PM

I can see a tropeable concept in "resists temptation and corruption", when they stand out in the story for doing so. This could cover both supernatural corruption and the more mundane sort, like how Sir Thomas More is characterised in A Man for All Seasons ("The last judge since Cato who didn't take bribes"). Looking at the TLP, this seems to be what it's aiming for, since the contrast with others is emphasised in the examples.

But such a trope would likely have to be built from scratch.

Edited by Reymma on Aug 26th 2023 at 11:45:57 AM

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#43: Aug 29th 2023 at 3:22:10 AM

Calling in favor of the following:

  • Redefine as characters being portrayed in-universe as untemptable/incorruptible.
  • Rename.

What are our name options?

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 29th 2023 at 5:23:02 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#44: Aug 29th 2023 at 3:27:32 AM

The Incorruptible, The Untainted, Vice Resistance or variations of.

Edited by Amonimus on Aug 29th 2023 at 1:27:58 PM

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Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#47: Aug 29th 2023 at 11:59:11 PM

I think we have enough name suggestions now (and I threw in Vice Resistant as an alternative to Vice Resistance), so crowner hooked.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Echidna from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2021 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#48: Sep 1st 2023 at 9:33:53 AM

Fair enough for the names honestly.

Edited by Echidna on Sep 1st 2023 at 12:34:15 PM

Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#49: Sep 1st 2023 at 6:37:04 PM

Looks like we've got superconsensus for the name.

AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#50: Sep 1st 2023 at 6:49:09 PM

[up]I think we also have a consensus for the redirect.

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project

Trope Repair Shop: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
29th Aug '23 11:55:45 PM

Crown Description:

Incorruptible Pure Pureness is being redefined as characters being portrayed in-universe as untemptable/incorruptible and renamed. What should the trope's new name be?

Total posts: 73
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