Headscratchers / Warcraft

New entries on the bottom.

Undead units

• Are Death Knights, Acolytes, and Necromancers actually Undead? If not then how do things like Death Coil heal them?'''
  • In Warcraft 3 blame in on game mechanics. Death Knights were alive as Paladins were once said to be immune to the plague of undeath. Acolytes in WoW and that they were hiding as humans in WC3 seem to suggest being alive. At least Kel'thuzard was alive while just a necromancer.
  • Deathknights are probably closer to undead than they are alive. They may have never died of the plague, but they gave their souls to the Lich King, and can probably be considered "undead" for purposes of abilities that hurt the undead, like Holy Light.
  • The followers of the Lich King are bathed in the Shadow, and therefore harmed by positive energy (Holy Light etc) and healed by negative energy (shadow spells).
  • Not a lore fan here, but I think there was something about Death Knights actually being dead bodies that have not yet decayed and will not, controlled by the souls in the blades they wield. After all, the Death Knight's soul is the first one to be sucked into the blade they wield.
  • Another lore fan here, what the person before me said is true, but it applies to Gul'dan's (Warcraft II) Death Knights, such as Teron Gorefiend, which are made from the corpses of the Knights of Lordaeron imbued with the souls of the warlocks from the shadow council. But the Lich King's Death Knights are corpses risen with their (own) souls bound to the Lich King's will, hence why they can remember their former lives, instead of getting new souls like the Death Knights of old.
  • It's established in WoW that the light can heal undead it just hurts like hell, it's possible necromancy can work similar, for why you can't do it on allied living unit is because they just don't trust you enough to let you, not do they have the cultist fanaticism of the cult of the damned necessary to put up with the pain without passing out

Who created the demons originally?

• We know some types (i.e the eredar) were created by Sargeras however there are some races of demons that predate his Face–Heel Turn such as the dreadlords. So who created them?
  • Demons are the result of creatures being corrupted by fel magic. Fel magic is created when something is destroyed and the first fel magic was the result of the mutual destruction of light and dark in the Twisted Nether. In other words, a chaotic imbalance of power created the demons not corrupted by Sargeras. Saregeras happens to weaponize it.

Timeline

• The eternal Warcraft question: Was DotD before or after BtDP? We might be getting an answer for this with the BtDP book.
  • Well, now that the book is out, seems Day of the Dragon is after Beyond the Dark Portal. That creates its own paradoxes, but at least now we know.
  • The lore available at the time indicated that it took place before BtDP. Since there's absolutely nothing to be gained by retconning it, it was most likely just an error that was never caught, and that they wouldn't care about if it was.

Resources

• It bugs me that everything is made out of gold, wood and sometimes oil. Where do they get their iron and stone?
  • I always just assumed they buy it from the unseen civilians. Of course, normally you would do the same with wood (and oil, unless that's a resource limited exclusively to military use). Also, why would the military need to run its own farms? Couldn't they buy food?
  • I like the WoWinsider podcast's reasoning with the World of Warcraft world - the world the players play in is just a smaller "model" version of the "real" World of Warcraft world. That is, the Stormwind or Orgrimmar you see in game is just a smaller version of the city itself, its not the city that the NPCs themselves see, if that makes sense.
  • Basically, Gameplay and Story Segregation with a dash of Overworld Not to Scale.

Banshee Sylvanas

• It annoyed me when I finally kicked Sylvanas' ass, knowing that I would bring her to my side... and was rewarded with, not a potentially useful Dark Ranger, but a freaking banshee. What was Arthas (or, depending on who really did the job, the Lich King) thinking?
  • Well, she returned as an Undead ranger in the expansion. Not sure what they did, maybe they had to prepare the body first and put her banshee form into it afterwards.
  • They got the idea for Dark Rangers after Reign of Chaos came out and decided to make her one. Handwaving later occurred when they said she later possessed her own dead body, turning from banshee to Dark Ranger.
  • Oh, so in other words, An expansion pack did it.
  • If you want a Watsonian explanation, maybe Arthas just wasn't powerful enough at that point to do more with Sylvanas than make a banshee. Reanimating her corpse with her spirit still bound to it might have been beyond his powers. He could have turned her body into a zombie and had it follow them around until he was able to stuff her spirit back into it, creating the Dark Ranger seen in the expansion.

Thriving gladiator business

• It just bugs me that a gladiator business such as portrayed in the comics could be so openly thriving within the walls of Orgrimmar. You'd sort of expect Thrall to have a thing or two to say about it, considering his past. Or is it supposed to be an underground thing? If so, where the Hell does Varian Wrynn get off blaming Thrall for anything he went through during his absence from Stormwind? (not that I think he's got any right to be whining about a few months as a gladiator to someone who was raised in slavery and became a gladiator at age twelve.)
  • The gladiator organisation that enslaves Varian is an underground gang composed of criminals from both sides of the 'Cold War'. Their fights are held in neutral places like Dire Maul. "The Ring of Honour" in Orgrimmar is, as recently confirmed in a WoW event, a place where orcs who get into fights go to settle things between themselves. Varian whining about his gladiator-ship is just very, very bad writing from the WoW developers. When he finds out he's the King in the comic, his first reaction is: "I wish I wasn't. I would stay a gladiator if I didn't have a son waiting for me in Stormwind."
  • Fanon has it that Thrall is opposed...but rooting out slavers in Durotar is kind of like rooting out the mob in the United States. And don't get me started on Varian's Jerkass credentials. Just don't.
  • He's not actually that bad, beyond the frankly depressing character model and that Warcraft's over-arching story writers suck at characterization (while some of the quest writers are amazing), he's one of the more well rounded alliance leaders. What do we know about Gelbin Mekkatorque? I get the feeling that certain members of the Warcraft writing team have a massive stiffy for the horde, which means that the alliance get pretty neglected. This may or may not be reveresed in game balance terms, depending on who you listen to.

Gold in the Barrens

• Gold is fairly hard to come by for low levels in WoW but in one of the early barrens quest is to kill a pirate lord that is standing next to a pile of it that is as tall as a gnome yet you can't take any of it and the quest reward is a few silver pieces.
  • They're probably merely gold-plated or something. Or it belongs to someone else and you can't be a jerkass and just swipe it (even if you were a jerkass earlier).
  • Well it is in a pirate camp that you have been sen to wipe out so ownership hardly matters and even if the coins were just copper the pile would still be worth a few gold peices.

Gold prices

• Speaking of gold, why is a gold bar worth only a few SILVER pieces? (I understand why gold ore is worth little, but a perfectly-smelted and usable bar?)
  • Evidently, a gold coin is worth much more than its weight in gold. Perhaps gold has become so common that its market price has decreased, but the currency made of the same metal has retained its worth.
  • Yeah, that's kind of how I justify it for myself too, like modern paper currency being more valuable than an equivalent weight of plain bond paper, etc.
  • whats worse is the resale price to ingame vendors ore is always worth more the the smelted bars ad that is almost always more then a finished product.
  • Seems that Azeroth has adopted the copper standard for currency in lieu of a gold or even silver standard. Copper is worth far more per pound than the other two metals.
  • It would be worse if the opposite was true, like in Weimar Republic Germany.

Draenei survivors

• How many draenei survived the orcs' genocide anyway? Wowwiki gives the population of Exodar as 17,000, which is higher than that of Orgrimmar or Darnassus. And that's just Exodar, not taking into account all those who stayed in Outland.
  • WoWWiki has been wrong before and is probably wrong again. No surprise there. Considering what the race has been through, the entire draenei population (excluding Lost Ones, but including the Broken, the Auchenai, and Wyrmcultists) might number 17k. If that.
  • It gets really confusing if you've read Rise of the Horde, where Velen mentions that only a few hundred eredar ever left Argus. And since they very rarely have children, most of the ones that fought the orcs were part of that original few hundred. Just how did they survive a genocide with enough significant numbers to split into two distinct factions, one of which crashed into a planet and still has enough members to populate a city?
  • If you ever want to brave the awful...ahem, the official forums, I'm sure you can dig up some fan theories. The most common seems to be that the original refugee population numbered somewhere closer to a thousand, and that there were births in the interim. (Remember: Even considering that draenei are ridiculously long-lived if not functionally immortal...it was 25,000 years.)
  • 17,000 seems like a fairly small number for the population of a capital city. Considering that 50,000 people died in the war against the Lich King on the Alliance side (5,000 at the Wrathgate), and this was a catastrophic death toll, it seems as though population figures as a whole may be fairly small in the World of Warcraft universe.
  • Orgrimmar and Darnassus are both very new cities, Orgrimmar being 5 years old at the time of TBC and Darnassus 4. Every orc that lives in Orgrimmar was either part of the three ships that sailed there, or had to break out of an internment camp/other clan, Reach Booty bay, and from there sail to Ratchet (the orgrimmar-undercity alliance, and thus zeppelin line, was a fairly recent thing at the time of WoW, and the only faction to hold big ports on both sides of the ocean is the steamwheedle cartel). Darnassus was founded as part of a highly controversial, failed project, is surrounded by corruption, and, most importantly, was not needed housing-wise. Honestly, the issue is more why those two cities have several thousand citizens.
  • According to the manuals of Warcraft 1 and 2, the Orcs wiped out the Draenei.

Arthas power level

• Why is Arthas seen as so strong, besides Blizzard saying he is? I mean Arthas himself was weakened significantly during The Frozen Throne. And the Lich King is really only a weakened orc shaman with some undead powers. By their powers combined, they still should be weaker than say, Kil'Jaedin, who was on par in strength with the person who -gave- them their powers.
  • Arthas was weak during The Frozen Throne because Ner'zhul was losing his powers. He was strong enough to become Ner'zhul Dragon, has Frostmourne and Death knight powers, and he beat Illidan. Ner'zhul was sealed by Kil'jaeden in the Frozen Throne, but he also granted him new powers in order to create a zombie invasion. Stronger than Kil'jaeden? No, but definitly stronger than what you think.
  • At the start they are far weaker, Arthas is on par with any other hero unit, but one thing to remember is there powers include the ability to grow stronger, both threw amassing more and more undead made from more and more powerful individuals, and from frostmourne continually feasting on souls and gaining strength
  • Arthas is as strong as he is because he's a former Paladin now wielding outright more powerful abilities with a runeblade that gives him a huge increase in power. He was already a strong Paladin, but that added together makes him incredibly powerful.
  • His power is directly tied to his connection to Nerzhul, so obviously after becoming one with him he recieved a major power boost, Nerzhul also doesent just have some undead powers, he is by far the most powerful necromancer azeroth has ever seen short of perhaps Galakrond, more importantly Arthas regardless of how powerful Arthas was, Frostmourne grows in power with every soul it consumes and Arthas has killed a lot of people

Garrosh skin color

• How is Garrosh Hellscream brown-skinned and (originally) on Draenor? At first I assumed he was born there and left behind when the Horde invaded Azeroth, but Thrall calls him "boy", which implies that Garrosh is younger than him. Now, Thrall was born on Azeroth, and if memory serves, Grom Hellscream was one of the first orcs to go though the Dark Portal. What's going on?'''
  • It's... A little complicated. The green skin of the Orcs came about due to the demonic corruption. In Rise of the Horde it was noted that the skin of most Orcs (including those of Durotan, father of Thrall, and his mate, who had resisted the growing bloodlust among the clans) began flaking green as the Horde unified and began its assault on the Draenei, due to contact with warlock magic. When the Horde finally accepted the blood of Mannaroth, become almost completely corrupted, their skin became fully green - Even those that had refused or had been prohibited the blood (The entire Frostwolf clan, for instance; and Orgrim Doomhammer, Griselda Blackhand and even Ner'zhul), but a portion of the Orcish population somehow avoided the skin change (Greatmother Geyah, for one). Another thing to note is that Grom was not among the first to go through the Dark Portal, his Warsong clan was one of those ordered to remain behind on Draenor while the Frostwolf were part of the initial invasion (and were exiled before the end of the First War, which was when Thrall was born). Grom and the Warsong never went through the Dark Portal until after the end of the Second War, as part of a diversionary assault on Nethergarde Keep and defence of the Dark Portal while the Death Knights collected the relics necessary to open more portals. Garrosh is likely to be (if only slightly) younger than Thrall, and was by all accounts born a sickly child. This probably is what prevented the corruption from setting in, as he's found with the rest of the uncorrupted Orcs in Garadar, the main village of the Mag'har. The novelisation of Beyond the Dark Portal states that Garadar was a refuge for the ill and frail Orcs that were generally considered unfit or unwilling to join the Horde. As for how they avoided the corruption... Eh, it's not really specified how. The corruption affected parents but not children (Garrosh Hellscream, Jorin Deadeye, Saurfang the Younger), skipped generations, or even spread to Orcs that did resist (Frostwolves), but probably had something to do with a disease that was going around the Orcs called the Red Pox, which could prevent corruption but leaving the sufferer extremely frail.
  • I'll accept everything else, but "after the end of the Second War"? But isn't Grom an unit in Warcraft 2?
  • It was in the extension "Beyond the Dark Portal" indeed. But there's still a problem with that "boy" by Thrall. If Thrall is older than Garrosh, it means that Garrosh was born after the opening of the Dark Portal, as Thrall was born on Azeroth (actually, two years after the Dark portal according to the RPG). So when he was born, the orcs were already corrupted, and he should have been green too (as this corruption is hereditary). The only ways for Garrosh not to be corrupted is that he was born before the opening, and even before the orcs (including his father Grom) started fel magic and drank Mannoroth's blood. Soon after, he get sick (Red pox), and so isn't corrupted.
  • Even if Garrosh is older, he's an insufferable brat.
  • Why is it, then, that in Warcraft III standard green Orcs got red skin when they became corrupted? And then turned back to green again when they got back to normal? Apparently red is to green as green is to brown. Which seems odd to this troper.
  • "Fel" orcs are basically the orcs who, after drinking demon blood, became especially corrupted. Maybe that's what they looked like right after the original deal, too.

Farms

• Why is it that the farms in Warcraft III don't, you know, grow any crops? A single "farm" consists of a cottage, and that's it. No field, not even a tiny garden. Which creates strange situations in which players will build dozens of "farms" within a few feet of each other.
  • First of all, Units Not to Scale. Secondly, the game is drawn intentionally with a cartoonish art style. And finally, for convenience, balance and fun's sake, it's an Acceptable Break from Reality.

Burned ships

• In Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos, in the eighth mission of the Human campaign, Arthas burns his ships so that his army can't return home until after they beat Mal'ganis. So once they beat Mal'ganis, how exactly did Arthas and co. return to Lordaeron? The game never explicitly covered this point...
  • Built new ships?
  • Answer: They didn't. Arthas wandered off into a blizzard where he was driven mad by Frostmourne's whispers, and his men stayed there and eventually built a small settlement called Wintergarde Keep. When Arthas returns to Lordaeron, he's already become a Death Knight. And the Scourge have plenty of ways to move troops.
  • He left many men behind, but Arthas and his new undead forces got home somehow. This is never explained.
  • The undead have flying citadels, zeppelins and a fleet of ships.

Era

• What era is Warcraft supposed to be in? It seems to have everything from futuristic technology (Gnomes) to classic medieval fantasy. They have battleships with cannons and footmen with swords. What is the main reason that they arent all basically using Gnome tech? Rule of Cool?
  • It's a Schizo-tech world. The place is largely Medieval but with magic and the fact that humans can pretty much shrug off bullets like it's nothing, the urge to upgrade to technology isn't all that high. The Draenai are from an advanced futuristic world but they couldn't beat the Orcs themselves. Try and think of Grom Hellscream as able to cut through tanks with his magic ax and you have the basic idea. Plus, Gnome tech is unreliable. It's like "why does no one use Henry Ford's cars if every third one blows up?"
  • Ahem. The draenei are not from an "advanced futuristic world." Argus was magically advanced—approximately on a par with old Quel'thalas even way-back-when, most likely—but they were as impressed at first sight by naaru constructs such as Oshu'gun and Tempest Keep as anyone else was. (By the way, said constructs are run by magic.)
    And Warcraft is a standard Anachronism Stew.
  • Probably because no one's technology is actually that good. Both gnomish and goblin technology has a high failure rate; those races tend to think it's worth it, others don't. Elves (and to a lesser extent the Dalarani humans and draenei) have exceedingly powerful magic, but magic is hard to learn and harder to teach, and has its own risks to boot. And, of course, there's the fact that everything is oddly balanced. Weird, but true. Nobody has any real reason to make a wholesale switch to another mix of magic and technology until something comes up that nobody can match.
  • Besides which, the technology of the races HAS been advancing over that last few expansions. For example, when WoW was first released, the Horde made use of simple catapults, barely-armored infantry, spear throwers, and wooden fortifications. Fast-forward to Wrath, where they are shown to be using Demolishers and Steam Tanks, fully-armored soldiers, gunmen, and metal-and-stone fortifications. not to mention that their battle tactics of "Zerg the enemy" has fallen out of favor for organized battles, sieges, and mechanized warfare. A good example of these changes can be seen in Warsong Hold, particularly in the conversation between Saurfang and Garrosh, where we have Saurfang (who represents the technological advancement of the Horde) lecturing Garrosh (representing the zerg-and-destroy mentality of the older Horde) on the finer points of having clear supply lines. It can be found here

Death Knights and warlocks

• This one's been bugging me for a little while. Why is it that the people of Stormwind and Orgrimmar throw rotten fruit and vegetables at the Death Knights, but they've never shown any similar hostilities toward the Warlocks?'''
  • They do hate warlocks too. In Stormwind, warlocks have to hide in the back of the slaughtered lamb and in Orgrimmar, in the Cleft of shadow (with rogues and other non-respectable citizens). They are accepted as a necessary evil in Orgrimmar, and Undercity (and maybe Silvermoon) are the only capitals where they are genuinely accepted. They are strictly forbidden in Darnassus, Thunder Bluff and the Exodar (but I don't know about Ironforge). The rest is Gameplay and Story Segregation.
  • You can't tell someone is a warlock just by looking at them — warlocks aren't going to walk around Stormwind openly (the fact that players get away with their demon minions is Gameplay and Story Segregation), where it's more or less impossible to hide the fact you are a death knight. What bugs me is why the guards attack Horde on sight but not death knights, even though story-wise they don't yet know they aren't allied with the Scourge.
  • A shame, that, since one easy change would have had it make sense. A simple white flag or some other symbol of parley is all that would have been necessary.
  • In case you haven't noticed, Warlocks are almost always segregated. The Human warlocks hide in the cellar of the Slaughtered Lamb, as the first replier mentioned. Even in Orgrimmar, Ironforge and Silvermoon, while not quite prohibited, they're confined inside dark, unsavory ghettos (along with the rogues, another badly-tolerated class). The exception to the rule is Undercity, where warlocks share the same quarter of the city as mages, but... they're undead, for crissakes. For them, it doesn't matter you sold your soul in exchange for demonic power, as long as you serve the Forsaken.
  • Um yeah, about that - doesn't 'selling your soul' work differently if you're already undead? The hiding thing is borderline hilarious sometimes, as warlock trainers rant on about the "closed-mindedness" of their societies. Best illustration comes from the starting area orc rogue trainer (halfway through the Den in the Valley of Trials), who says about the warlock trainer (all the way in the back): "Shhh, not so loud. I don't trust Nartok over there. Anyone that has to hide deeper in a cave than I do shouldn't be trifled with."
  • At the Blizzcon 2010 Quest & Lore panel, someone asked about warlocks being able to walk around without any problems. The response was that it's an obvious case of Gameplay and Story Segregation, and if the guards in pretty much any city saw a demon they'd attack on sight without a second thought. The Death Knight thing was probably just viable because it only lasts a couple minutes before the NPC's go right back to thinking you're an average Joe.
  • There's a passage from Tides Of War that deals with the issue.
    "It was always uneasy when those who worked with demons were pressed into service for the good of the Alliance, but they had certain spells- and certain creatures in thrall- whose efficacy was undeniable."
  • Warlocks are accepted as necessary to defend there nation from whatever the big enemy of the expansion is, the villagers dont like them but they still know there ultimately on there side, when you death knight is pelted with fruit its not simply for being a death knight, its for being Scourge, its not till you talk to your sides respective leader that they realise you are there to help and stop throwing fruit at you
  • Enemy warlocks, especially Fel Orcs and eventually Kael'thas have gone all out on fel usage to the point of drinking or injecting it to harness more power at the cost of visible corruption. Player warlocks are Willfully Weak, as they know better than taking those extra steps and can look like normal people.

Princess Moira Bronzebeard and her child?

• Is she now dead as far as lore is concerned? Because if not, she's been pregnant for an awful long time. I realize Dwarves are very long-lived, but surely they don't gestate for several years.
  • Closest thing to an official explanation is that they do (much as that makes little to no sense, as gestation is usually related to size rather than to lifespan). But that was an offhand remark from a blue. My thought is that the baby has been born by now, and she's holed up with him somewhere.
  • The child isn't old enough to inherit the throne, even if he was born. What bugs me is this- Who would get the throne if Magni died? Would it be his younger brother Muradin, his daughter Moira, or his illegitimate grandson?
  • As of Cataclysm, she is in Ironforge as a representative of the Dark Iron Dwarves, under the name of "Moira Thaurissian". She can be seen clearly in this◊ picture from MMO-Champion.

Needing Frostmourne

• Why did Arthas need Frostmourne to win the campaign, anyway? Hearing the Dark Lord's voice aside, the blade didn't raise his attack all that much, and its Chaos element only helps against Divine Beings, which Mal'Ganis certainly wasn't.
  • Lore-wise, Frostmourne is extremely powerful. Gameplay-wise, chaos attacks are effective against all kinds of armors, and IIRC when Arthas gets Frostmourne he becomes a lot stronger.
  • He only got Chaos Damage from Frostmourne, but that alone was enough when coupled with his paladin powers. Massive armor and being perfectly invulnerable 3/4 of the time coupled with the new ability to demolish buildings in seconds allowed him basically to solo the map. In either case, considering how long it took Mal'ganis to inevitably come back into the story, there's a good chance that some aspect of Frostmourne inhibited his recovery, lore-wise.
  • That always bothered me. I actually could beat the campaign primarily using gryphons. Worse still, he gets a cool sword, but he loses Bronzebeard- which would have helped almost as much. That and he's being controlled by a tactical commander, making it so much more obvious that he could just win like he's done before.
  • Additionally, why does Arthas get weaker when he becomes a death knight? Yes, I know things like having to learn undead magic and all (Not to mention balance) , but why does his damage decrease? It's even lost its edge of having chaos attacks. What, is Arthas having that much trouble swinging around the sword while on a horse?
    • Frostmourne stole his soul and afterwards he became undead its not the fact hes on a horse that makes him weaker but the fact hes lost a fundamental part of himself, hes lost his previous main power source and has to adjust to his body becoming more stiff and dead.
  • Gameplay and Story Segregation. Arthas as a Death Knight is more powerful than he was as a Paladin, but because gameplay wise the way the campaign works, he had to be brought down to level one for balancing purposes.

Forsaken attrition

• Shouldn't the war attrition rates have reduced the numbers of the Forsaken to zero by now, what with they being to dead to reproduce? And how will they replenish their ranks after there is no more Scourge, seeing as they are all former Scourge?
  • I haven't done the last instances, but if the Lich King dies, what do you think will happen to all the undead he controls?
  • Apparently, the mindless ones will go on a mindless rampage throughout Azeroth.
  • Which is why there's a new Lich King.
  • More or less the entire kingdom of Lordaeron was converted, and most of them seem to be Forsaken now; that's a lot of people, and until the Northrend campaign (which is relatively recent) Forsaken military strategy kept most of them save the Defilers away from any kind of primary attack (while the Defilers prefer to act through suckers adventurers). They also might be able to "induct" other, non-Scourge undead into their ranks.
  • This is explained through the forsaken starter quests. New independent undead are always waking up from the crypts, it isn't just the forsaken Sylvanas initially came with. Plus Sylvanas is said to be always trying to recruit other independent undead, as there are many who believe they alone are independent and have yet to join the Forsaken. The real question is about the Darkspear trolls.
  • This question is directly followed up on in Cataclysm, during some new starter quests for the Forsaken. As a result of casualties in Northrend (and presumably Varimathras' coup in the Undercity), the Forsaken are in a weakened position in terms of numbers, which would make their planned war on Gilneas rather...difficult, to say the least. So after the death of Arthas renders a big chunk of the more sentient Scourge independent, Sylvanas recruits a large number of the val'kyr to the Forsaken, who use their magic to raise new Forsaken from corpses. Cue the backlash, as many fans feel the Dark Lady's finally crossed the Moral Event Horizon she's been flirting with for years with this action, and think Blizzard is setting her up for a fall a la Kael'thas. Others feel this betrays the very idea behind her Faustian Rebellion by having her become the very thing she hated most (and Garrosh in game even points this out to her).
  • The fact that Blizzard dedicated an entire cutscene to her Moral Event Horizon just shows that this is intentional Character Derailment by Blizzard. But what bothers this troper even more is that her response to Garrosh's What the Hell, Hero? is "Isn't it obvious, warchief? I serve the Horde." What the hell does that even mean? Taken literally it implies she thinks the ends justify the means because they serve the Horde cause, but she says it in an incredibly sarcastic tone that implies she doesn't think this. This leaves Garrosh, with a newfound sliver of wisdom, a perfect opportunity to call her out again, but instead he just hurls out an insult "Watch your clever mouth, bitch". Making this even worse, Garrosh has shown that as warchief he isn't quite as vicious and bloodthirsty as he seemed throughout Wot LK, since he also drops an officer off a cliff for killing a village of innocents against his orders. That Sylvanas would ever think that something completely evil was okay because it was "For the Horde" is a complete wallbanger, especially since until her breakdown all she cared about was killing Arthas and saw the Horde only as an alliance of convenience. But now she has some apparent devotion to the Horde, which she also enforces on those around her, to the point that she goes undercover to catch Koltira of the Ho Yay couple Koltira/Thassarian searching for the latter, and then drags Koltira off while lecturing him about being friendly to the enemy.
  • I'm not seeing it as outright "Character Derailment" as mucg a case of "He Who Fights Monsters". And the sarcastic tone in her voice seems to be her boasting that there really isn't a difference, except she knows she's a Designated Hero. She's a Magnificent Bastard, and Anti-Villain only because she's on the "Good Guy's" team, yet there's nothing her "allies" can really do about it, because she merely skirts the Moral Event Horizon, so the horde can't really do anything to stop her carefully-restricted actions without diving into Disproportionate Retribution. And as long as she's serving the horde, she's still an invaluable resource, as detestable as she might be. Check out the Truth in Television section of He Who Fights Monsters for an explanation on how it's not quite Character Derailment.
    • Skirting? Undercity is full of captives and slaves of Alliance being tortured, butchered and experimented on. She already dove deep into the Moral Event Horizon.
  • As noted above, the Forsaken are comprised of a fairly significant number of the Lordaeron-based Scouge (which weren't exactly lacking for numbers either), corpses in the crypts suddenly waking up of their own free will aren't unheard of, and post-Cataclysm Lady Sylvanas has a new form of necromancy to create more Forsaken. In addition, if one wants to use them as canon, the tabletop RPG (yes, there was one) claims the Forsaken have devised their own unique necromancy spell ("Forsake the Scourge") that shatters any spells controlling an undead creature and restores its full intelligence and free will, turning even a mindless skeleton into a fully independent and sentient skeleton.
  • The RPG explained it as the forsaken using their own necromancers and shadowpriests to either raise their own undead(in a gentle, respectful manner that maintained the free will of the individual they were raising) or freeing the mindless undead from the grip of the scourge. Though it also mentioned that they were losing some of their own to a form of "old age" where their minds and free will slowly slipped back into the Lich King's control, a condition for with euthanasia was the standard treatment.

Weird pets

• Why is there a Level 60 cat wandering around the front door of the Exodar?
  • Nibblet is an Animagus who got lost in the wrong universe. Good an explanation as any.
  • It's a Futurama reference.

Siege weapons

• Why did the catapult and ballista get ditched in between Reign of Chaos and Frozen Throne? Those things were iconic!
  • Well, it's generally explained in that the Orcs and Night Elves respectively upgraded their technology a bit in the interim between the Battle of Mount Hyjal and the time of Frozen Throne. The Orc Demolisher is clearly a step up from the old Catapult, being a neat-looking phlogiston-powered steam-cannon compared to a traditional old catapult. As for the Night Elf Glaive Thrower, it's basically change of ammo for what is essentially the same device - just, instead of large arrows, they now shoot glaive-thingies like the ones used by Huntresses.

Naga

• Naga are snake-men. The males have two arms. Females have four. WTF?
  • Snake-people created by the Well of Eternity exploding. Reality need not apply.
  • Men are deliberately engineered to be little more than Dumb Muscle. It's an incredibly matriarchal society; male Naga actually find Night Elf women terrifying because of the similarities to Naga females.
  • Think of it like drow society in the sea, trading a chaotic evil demon goddess with a fetish for spiders for an Eldritch Abomination goddess who happens to be half-octopus. Now make the male/female divide even more prevalent.
  • I guess it's elaboration time. Naga are an incredibly mutated race due to corruption from the Old Gods. Females on average are born with four arms, and become exceptional magic wielders due to this. Sea Witches, especially powerful casters, have six. Male naga are less intelligent than females on average (although they're not necessarily any dumber than any other intelligent humanoid) but have thicker hides and sharp teeth to make up for it. This is taken to the extreme with the naga brutes, who are truly unintelligent but also extremely tanky naga, but not with the naga lords, which are males that appear to be covered in a form of natural armor, and serve as tactical commanders for small armies. Naga can aspire to leave their ranks though, and exceptions are encountered throughout the game. In the case of female warrior naga, a female battlemaiden is the focus for a questline in Vashj'ir. For the males, I don't know if an entirely magic devoted representative can be found (although an unaffiliated naga summoner, Skar'this, exists), but I believe Fathom-Lord Zin'jatar had the ability to summon waves of water.

Archimonde at the end

• In the last mission of Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos, why doesn't Archimonde just plow through the bases? He's certainly strong enough, what with his divine armor. Instead he waits until Furion is almost done implementing his plan.
  • He's a freaking demon lord, he loves destruction and chaos. He destroyed Dalaran just For the Evulz. He probably just wanted to murder every mortal(and immortal) being who tried to oppose him before going and taking the tree. His dialogue throughout the mission made it seem as if he was challenging the Night Elves to try and put up a fight that could actually prove a threat to him. When they didn't, and their allies were overrun, I guess he just got bored and finally decided to walk up to the gate. Of course, by the time this happens, there's only 40 seconds left on the timer, and it doesn't take a whole lot of distraction to keep him away from the gate until the timer runs out and you win.
  • My thoughts on this: Archimonde doesn't actually know what Furion is planning (this seems to be pretty well established in game.). As far as he knows, the Night Elves, Human, and such are simply defending the world tree just because the tree is valuable, so he sees no need to try and reach the tree as quickly as possible, outside of any normal considerations. As for why Archimonde doesn't just plow through anyway, there's always that chance that some soldiers could figure out a way to defeat him, or get some lucky attacks in, so Archimonde won't want to directly fight with large number of enemy soldiers, instead using his armies to weaken the enemies first, before coming in to finish everyone off. He never did directly get involved in fights in other parts of the game either, only showing up when other forces were winning handily, so this is consistent through the whole story.
  • After messing around in the map editor, and experimenting with Divine Armour, I realize why they didn't let Archimonde plow through your base until the end: It would be impossible to stop him. The last level is supposed to be Nintendo Hard, not impossible and having Archimonde take a more aggresive stance would have made the level completely impossible. Story wise, the above point makes sense. Gameplay wise, only the playing with the Warsong Clan (after drinking the blood of Mannaroth) would make that level even winnable.

Fel magic

• Why is it emphasized that Warlocks are former Mages or Shamans who have turned to Fel magic in an ever-greater thirst for power? How exactly is Fel magic supposed to be any more powerful than regular Arcane or Shamanistic magic? Gameplay-wise, a Warlock is not really stronger than a Mage of the same level, just somewhat different, but lore-wise, they seem to be hyped up to be more powerful somehow. Is this just another case of Gameplay and Story Segregation, or is it just a (false) perception of in-world characters that sacrificing their soul to demons will yield them more powerful magic than just following the regular Arcane(or Shamanistic, or whatever) path?
  • The latter.
  • Demons make a lot of empty promises.
  • Lorewise, Fel is described as being more powerful than Arcane, at least if you go all the way and start drinking demon blood (which is basicly concentrated Fel). Playable warlocks don't do that, however, probably because they're supposed to be using the power of the demons against them, instead of serving the Legion (drinking demonic blood is pretty much guaranteed to make you a slave for the demons. The stuff is really addictive!).
  • Yet somehow, the Shaman version of Bloodlust isn't so bad.
  • That's akin to an adrenaline shot, rather than demonic drugs.
  • One of the novels explains that fel magic isn't inherently stronger than arcane or nature magics, but is a hell of a lot easier. Warlocks of considerable power can be practically mass produced, where as arcane magic requires decades of study and shamanism requires spiritual devotion and is, in the end, left partly to the whim of the elements themselves.

New King

• After Bolvar becomes the new Lich King, why doesn't he order the undead of the Scourge to go jump into a volcano or slaughter each other? I take it most (if not all) of them are supposed to be mindless and unquestioning slaves to Lk, aren't they?
  • Because the whole thing about there having to be a Lich King to keep the undead in check was only invented as a excuse to keep the Lich King and the Scourge around as major characters within the lore even with Arthas dead. Having Bolvar just have the undead jump into a volcano or let the dead guys slaughter each other would be bad for the lore.
  • Just because the undead are free of the Scourge doesn't mean they're all good. Darkshire is a zone that's full of undead, who don't seem to be under the Lich King's influence. This may also be a convenience to prevent Bolvar from returning, and thus bringing some hope of reconciliation with the Horde, given that his apparent death was Varian's main reason to declare war.
  • I'm confused by that, too. Azeroth got along just fine without the Lich King before. Why does it suddenly need him now?
  • Fan Dumb has been saying this is an Ass Pull ever since patch 3.3, but the fact remains that there's a hell of a lot more Scourge now than there were eight years ago. We've had eight years of plague, enough that a huge chunk of the northern Eastern Kingdoms is basically uninhabitable because of it (most of what used to be the massive kingdom of Lordaeron, as well as pretty much the entire southern reaches of Quel'thalas). We've had at least two massive invasions of both southern continents by Scourge, including a pair of attacks on the two most populous cities (which coincided with a mass epidemic of plague). Not to mention the sheer number of soldiers who've been dying in Northrend ever since the Horde and Alliance took the war to Arthas, either by the Scourge's hand or each other's. We've been shown repeatedly that the Scourge has grown exponentially. People are also forgetting the entire point of the Scourge in the first place, which was to wipe so many people out that no one would be left to stop the Burning Legion's invasion; one could make a strong case that the Scourge were designed to be like locusts (at least the non-sentient undead), held in check by the Lich King and failing that, probably Kil'jaeden or Archimonde. Honestly, the only legitimate question at hand is how Bolvar will manage to hold them back, even through his admittedly strong force of will, given how heavily implied it was that a great deal of the Lich King's power came from Frostmourne, not just the Helm of Domination.
  • It's established that with stuff like Fel and Arcane magic, the more you use it the more addictive and hard to control it becomes. It's possible Bolvar doesn't want to do anything involving the power of the Lich King for risk of falling down a slippery slope. Or, he just doesn't know how to control them. The helmet of the Lich King never came with an instruction manual, you know.
  • This bugged me too, my guess would be that there's a Restraining Bolt that prevents the Lich King from actively sabotaging the Scourge otherwise there are plenty of ways you could do it it even if issuing a mass suicide command wasn't an option. And I'd assume that this would also extend to preventing the Scourge from attacking the Legion which would explain why they always had to manipulate people into killing Dreadlords for them

Oil

• Oil. In Warcraft 2. What's it for? It makes sense for the Submarines, but the Destroyers and Battleships/Juggernaughts are all sailing ships. Are the sails just decorative, and there's really some type of Gnomish engine in all those vessels?
  • There actually might be. In Real Life, many early steamships had sails too, in case of engine failure, with less ships having both as engines got more reliable.
  • It's a component in the insulation used to waterproof the ships.

Furion and Malfurion

• Why did Furion change his name to Malfurion in The Frozen Throne? Legal reasons?
  • The Reign of Chaos manual lists his name as Malfurion, so Furion was just a nickname he used until he was ascended to the position of All High Magician of the Purple People. Imagine a prince named Eddy being crowned king; he'd be known as King Edward from then on.

Illidan and Outland

• How do Illidan and Vashj know about Outland in the Frozen Throne expansion? Illidan perhaps is perhaps partially excusable, as he had absorbed the Skull of Gul'dan's memories, but even than those memories would not have included anything about Draenor after the explosion. Vashj, Illidan, and Maiev's orc knowledge also seems a bit strange, as they would only have known about orcs for presumably a few months at most, with maiev presumably busy with other activities, and Illidan and Vashj would have been on the run without any method for contwcting orcs. It certainly would not be enough time for, say, Maiev to learn orc writing, or for Illidan and Vashj to learn orc history.
  • Well, Maiev was underground for 10 thousand years. Perhaps there was some book on Orcish runes.
  • One of the novels shows that the Skull of Gul'dan was on Outland when Tichondrius found it, and also strongly suggests that the skull was still somewhat aware and intelligent, as if Gul'dan's spirit or just a manifestation of his will still inhabited it. It's possible that the skull absorbed knowledge of the destruction of Draenor through simply being there(on of the early novels, the Last Guardian, showed that magic could read through experience). Alternatively, Illidan took the time to interrogate one of the demons as to where they came from. Or Kil'Jaeden told him.

Oracle

• If the Oracle in Warcraft 3 is Medivh, where did the Tauren "legends" come from? Medivh is quite young, whereas Cairne describes the legends in a way that makes them sound quite old.
  • Medivh wasn't the Oracle, though. He said so when Thrall reached him; the Oracle was probably further back in the cave, hiding behind the wall Medivh was standing in front of or something.
  • What was said was "You're no Oravle, you're the prophet", "Very perceptive, Son of Durotan, I am the prophet", which isn't so much a denial of being the Oracle as a confirmation of being the prophet Thrall had bee speaking too. However even if the oracle is a completely separate being not associated with Medivh, that still brings up the oddity of how he was able to just take over the location with no clues of what the previous oracle was, where it is now, and if the oracle is still there, why it doesn't communicate at all with any of the orcs or humans.
  • They're only Tauren legends, who says there even is an Oracle?
  • Maybe Oracle is a Legacy Character.
  • Considering what oracles are known for, it's possible the legend far predates the event itself because someone in the past saw a glimpse of further events and knew there would eventually be an oracle

Murlocs and prisoners

• When Murlocks captured Thrall and his warriors, why did they think letting their prisoners keep their weapons was a good idea?
  • That tribe in Borean Tundra aside, murlocs aren't known for their intelligence.

Sylvanas making more undead

• Why does everyone think Sylvanas is crossing a moral event horizon because she is making more undead?
  • Because she takes Alliance prisoners to be tortured and killed into Forsaken, and Undercity has a population of Alliance slaves and prisoners being experimented on in cages? Apotecharies using lobotomized human women in Undercity? She is already a Complete Monster.
  • A few reasons.
    1. Many of them, including Forsaken player characters, were already dead before the Valkyr raised them out of their grave.
    2. Not all of them are sentient or free willed; see the World of Warcraft Headscratchers page for more on which ones were and were not.
    3. Thrall initially allowed the Forsaken into the Horde only because the Earthen Ring wanted to work on a way to cure undeath, which many, Sylvanas included, see as a form of torment. Now, they're planning to inflict this fate on other people, and have presumably given up on returning to normal themselves.
  • There's also the Gilneas quest line for new Worgen characters, where the Forsaken invaded Gilneas and Sylvannas is quite explicitly using the Plague of Undeath, despite the rest of the Horde leadership forbidding its use. Her role in the Battle of Andorhal in the new Western Plaguelands questline may also be a factor.
  • Gilneas was pretty much the result of Garrosh randomly deciding he wants a port and essentially using the Forsaken as cannon fodder, leading them to either use the weapons they have available to them or get killed - and they still incurr major losses. The revamped starting area quests make it very clear that they really do give the 'new recruits' a choice (for example, some random NPCs are allowed to just walk away) and put those who'd prefer to stay dead out of their misery. They used to see their situation as a curse, but they'd had many years to come to terms with their situation and came to see it more as a second chance that's not per se a bad thing to share.
  • People it's pretty much a fact that the NPC characters in this game don't get to go to a spirit healer to come back to life after they are killed, and most don't get rezzed by spells (well most don't), and the Val'kyr apparently die if they bring back an undead from the dead. Now think about this for the forsaken perspective. They have NO way to reproduce naturally, their warriors that die in battle stay dead, and if they continue to loose people, soon the forsaken race dies out. The only way for her to keep her race alive is to use the Val'kyr. And yes she brings people back to life after the kill them, but most were combatants attacking the forsaken. Yes I will admit, there were those refugee's but they were in a place where if they got a hold and was able to build up strength, they could be a bigger thorn in her side alive than dead and on her team. And we see that it did happen, those refugees became Worgen, and started to attack the Forsaken as well. All I see is a Woman that want's her race to survive, and is doing the only thing she can think of to keep it alive.
    • Slight nitpick, but the Val'kyr don't die after raising the dead. They'd be kinda useless otherwise.
    • If all you see is a survivor, look again. Forsaken keep slaves and captives in Undercity to be tortured, and experimented on. With explicit order of Sylvanas to develop a plague. She is already quite evil, no matter how many fan-glasses you put on.
  • It would be one thing if the Val'kyr just raised Forsaken warriors and left the corpses of their enemies alone, but that's not what's happening. Yeah, no matter where they came from, the newly raised are allowed to walk away... into a world that hates them. Joining the Forsaken is basically An Offer You Can't Refuse. It doesn't even matter if you die again, you're still damned to the Eternal Darkness. Most people would rather stay in Heaven than come back to life, "choose" to fight for the people they died trying to kill, and die again only to find yourself in The Nothing After Death; forever, if nobody can find your corpse.

Symphony of Frost and Flame

• What's the point of Symphony of Frost and Flame? Controlling the four obelisks opens the door to the Lich King. When you beat the mission Illidan is waiting for Arthas they have a fight, Arthas wins and goes in to become one with the Lich King. That's all well and good, but the problem is that Illidan wanted the obelisks for the exact same reason Arthas did to open the door... In theory couldn't Arthas have just set up camp outside the magical door, let Illidan control the four obelisks, use them to open the door and then either go straight to the Lich King or attack Illidan when he shows up?
  • When he shows up with his whole army behind his back, you mean? Not a good idea.
  • This. Lorewise, Illidan or Arthas would have to fight through the majority of the other person's army to seize all four Obelisks, and they would also logically hold the entire outer ring around Icecrown Glacier. Arthas can take Illidan just fine in a one on one fight, but he wouldn't be able to do much if he were busy getting dogpiled by Myrmidons.
  • Then take two obelisks, let Illidan have the other two, and have your guys beat the crap out of his guys while you do the same to him.
  • That's pretty much what you do in the mission.
  • Controlling all four obelisks means you know that your guys can prevent Illidan's guys from interfering with your mano-a-mano showdown. Letting him do all or even some of the opening puts your army's position under some suspicion. It's much safer to know that your forces control the surrounding area before opening the only way anyone could have a shot at murdering your boss.
  • Having control of when the door opens means that you will fight for the door solely when you want to, if Illidan had camped out by the door with his whole army Arthas would have just kept the door shut. Thus, the only way to break in at that point is for the Illidari to be far enough away that Arthas feels safe enough to open the door on his own, then attack with a powerful, fast moving strike. Like, say, the talented sorcerer, Demonically empowered, flying guy making straight for the gate, who happens to run into Arthas who was likely planning to dart inside and slam it shut again.
  • This is more of a wild guess, but perhaps there is some magical effect that prevents, or harms, anyone from entering the chamber who does not control the obelisks. Illidan's fight would than be a last ditch effort to prevent Arthas from entering, rather than to enter himself.

Tome of Medivh

• Why did the Legion not just steal the tome of Medivh or have Medivh summon the Legion into the world? Why bother with destroying the humans who know jackshit about them? Considering that the Legion fell largely because the Horde (the weapon meant to destroy humankind) turned on them and worked with the humans (who only fought the legion due to the horde and weren't really a threat.) If they had just stolen the tome of Medivh and sent the horde to Kalimdor, wouldn't they have had an army to attack the Night Elves, steal the tree of life's power and usher in Armageddon?
  • Because that wasn't the original plan. I'm pretty sure Sargeras was thinking "let the orcs in, open the way to the Tomb of Sargeras, repossess the Avatar that Aegwynn tossed in there years ago, kill everything". When Medivh died and Sargeras's plan was tossed out the window, they had to go with the Scourge-World Tree idea.
  • The Horde was Kil'jaedan's baby, maybe he wanted to see how effective they would be. Consider that by the end of the war with the Legion Archimonde is dead and Sargeras is banished and largely powerless, leaving Kil'jaedan as the most powerful demon lord in existence and undisputed master of the Burning Legion. Not conquering some mudball is a worthy sacrifice.

Rexxar

• How did Rexxar get to Kalimdor? He's a loner who stays far from civilization. Where did he get a boat? How did he know about Kalimdor?
  • The same way all of the ogres in Feralas, Tanaris, and Dustwallow Marsh did, probably. I bet he came with them.
  • Alternatively, wander up the Eastern Kingdoms to Lordaeron, sail north to Nothrend, wander around Northrend's southern coast, sail to Kalimdor from Borean Tundra. Could probably be done with a small, one man craft and a lot of luck, especially if the man was trying to avoid civilization. Kalimdor wasn't completely unknown by people in the eastern kingdoms, plenty of scholars knew about or suspected it's existence, and the goblins knew about it(Kezan is significantly closer to Kalimdor than it is to the Eastern Kingdoms). But most of the common people didn't know about it, likely considering tails of a far off land to be just that, tales. Rexxar's a guy who came from another planet, so he's less likely to be skeptical about stories of another continent, and if he heard it was almost completely devoid of civilization and overflowing with wild animals, that would sound like the damn promised land to him.

Deathwing and Rhonin

• How did Deathwing know what Rhonin was doing? While I get the whole of Deathwing's plan in "Day of the Dragon", how did he know about the mission Rhonin was on? The book doesn't offer an explanation, just that he knew. Rhonin doesn't even ask how he knew.

Footman's sword

• Why was the Footman in the Warcraft III trailer wielding what looks like an executioner's sword? This is the trailer that shows the Footman fighting the Orc Grunt before an Infernal arrives and kills them both. The sword seems to have a blunt, flat tip. I know of no reason to design a sword meant for real combat like this.
  • It seems more blunted or broken than outright flat, which could be explained by wear and tear. It may also be that the smith never intended it to be a stabbing sword, and so didn't bother tapering it to maintain blade integrity.
  • The same footman is seen in a later cinematic leading an Alliance force against an army of Orcs and his sword is both longer and tapered. So yeah the end of his sword was broken off in the battle.

Ner'Zhul and Arthas

• Why did Ner'Zhul wait so long to merge with Arthas? He could have called Arthas back to Northrend after the latter told Illidan about the Skull of Gul'dan. When Illidan eventually invades Northrend when the Eye of Gul'dan plan fails he'd have to deal with a Lich King who happens to have a strong body.
  • Probably wanted his best general to stay out in the field to keep things running properly. Ner'Zhul didn't have a particularly pressing reason to call Arthas back until Illidan arrived in Northrend with an army of fish and elves. He may have wanted to wait until he was sure the outlying fortifications were under control before pulling Arthas out.
  • Also, possibly to avoid what happens when Arthas finishes his Battle Inside The Mind and absorbs Ner'Zhul. If Ner'Zhul was aware that was possible, he might have only fused as a last resort measure to keep from losing his powers altogether.
  • Ner'Zhul merging with Arthas was something he came up with on his own, and was not part of the plan as far as the Burning Legion was concerned. When the Frozen Throne got damaged, Ner'Zhul contacted Arthas to return right away because he realized he was now at risk of dying and needed some way to continue to exist. While this is not outright stated, the games timeline indicates that it was a last minute plan he made to ensure he didn't die.
  • It should also be noted the merger took 3 years to complete, taking your greatest champion out of commision for 3 years while also leaving the leader of your forces partially dorment is not a move one takes lightly, it was likely he planned to do so once he felt the scourge had a more secure footing rather then take the risk of doing it now and leaving them vulnerable

Kael and Garithos

• Why did Prince Kael and blood elves join Garithos' forces instead of the remnants of the Silver Hand? The first mission of undead expansion campaign titled "King Arthas", which takes place after Blood Elf Campaing, features Arthas and his forces fighting against remnants of the Silver Hand, which consisted of paladins, human, dwarven and high elven forces. First off, there is no indication that these remnants have any connection to Garithos's forces and it seems that this was separate group from Garithos's troops (existence of elven forces prove this). Second, it seems that the Silver Hand remnants were near the Lordaeron palace gardens for some time, before Arthas had returned. So why Kael and his forces didn't join this group after the destruction of Quel'thalas and instead went to assist Garithos? These remnants were not just some ordinary survivors, these were the Knights of the Silver Hand, the finest warriors of Lordearon Kingdom who specialized in Holy Light. It would have made a lot more sense if Kael went to joined a group of refugees that consisted of King Terenas' strongest warriors and high elven survivors, instead of some random survivors. Kael could have even joined Daelin Proudmoore, assuming that Kul'Tiras hadn't sailed for Kalimdor yet. If Kael had joined the Silver Hand remnats, things would have turned out differently (Blood Elves wouldn't be forced to go to the Outland, would have stayed loyal to the Alliance and would decently hold out against the undead)
  • They went to Dalaran because that was the member of the Alliance they had the strongest ties to. When they got there they didn't have the luxury of bailing the war effort just because they didn't like their commander.

Using the Dalaran trick

• In "Twilight of Gods" why couldn't Archimonde just destroy all the bases the same way he destroyed Dalaran?
  • Real reason? Because then we wouldn't have a level. Plausible in-universe reason? He's being arrogant and lazy, letting the Scourge do all the work while he watches. When he levels the bases himself it's because he's lost his patience and is trying to speed things along.
  • His monologue during the destruction of Dalaran implies he's turning the wizard's magic against them. Dalaran was a place of arcane magic, and Archimonde talks about how they used stolen knowledge and now it will consume them. Mount Hyjal had no such weaknesss to exploit.
    • The same magic that Jaina used; why didn't Archimonde turn it against her too?
    • Jaina was mostly using conventional forces (soldiers with swords, bows, and arrows, etc.); it's not like her entire base was built out of magic. He may have been able to use it against her, specifically (assuming he could do that - he hit Dalaran's structures, not its people as proven by some having escaped in the sequel), but not against her army.
• First, as an acceptable break from lore, as there would otherwise be no level. Second, because Archimonde did that to Dalaran to show mortals how puny they were ("You think of yourselves as great mages? Look at MY magic!"). Third, because Archimonde was confident of his win, and thought that brute force was more than enough to get what he wanted.

Illidan fleeing Kil'jaeden

• If Kil'jaeden couldn't just up and enter Azeroth, why was Illidan so afraid of his wrath that he decided to flee to Outland? I presume the demon lord didn't appear to him in person when he hired him to kill the Lich King, but rather as some kind of illusion (which still burn the ground with its hooves so I don't really know), did he?
  • Possibly Kil'jaedan has agents he could use to attack Illidan (in the same way he used Illidan to attack the Lich King.), so Illidan wanted to go to a place where he'd be hard to find.

Forsaken and the Lich King's control

• If the Forsaken broke free from the Lich King's control after he was wounded by Illidan, then wouldn't Arthas merging with him reinstate that control? How could the Forsaken remain free willed?
  • According to the RPG, that was happening. Some of the Forsaken were gradually being subverted back into the Lich King's control, with their fellows often killing them before they could slip too far.
  • Ner'zhul was leaking power throughout TFT, and for most of the undead campaign, Arthas was losing power too. Ner'zhul started pumping power directly into Arthas towards the end to help Arthas regain his former strength, but that was only a small fraction of the power that Ner'zhul had lost. Thus the merging of Arthas and Ner'zhul still wouldn't have given back very much of the power that he had lost, and thus most of the undead that had gone out of control would remain out of control.
  • the magical link that binded them to the lich kings control was broken, regaining power wouldent fix that, the only way for him to regain control would be to rekill and reraise them again(as is implied with a forsaken death knight pc)

Meat Wagon

• How can a flimsy catapult that throws corpses deal more damage to buildings then a mortar or glaive thrower?
  • Undead magic? or they could've put explosives in the corpses and the damage is caused by the explosion not impact.

Sylvanas and blood elves

• Sylvanas hasn't stopped to care for the Blood Elves at all.
  • While Lor'Themar interprets her actions this way, she speaks about "getting rid of their common foe" and devotes some words to her fallen people when she hears of Arthas' death. She simply is, like she has always been, a Revenge Before Reason person who might lose sight of preserving what's left over paying their enemies back, while his priorities are very different. She only threatened to withdraw her forces because she knew he'd never let that happen/ as a way to strongarm him into doing what she wants him to do. From her Po V, she probably she's probably just bossing him around like back when he was still her second-in-command.

Arthas vs Illidan

• So, Arthas has frostmourne (a cursed sword), is a death knight and the remaining power of Ner'Zul, the ghost of an orcs shaman. Illidan has the blades of Azinoth (which seem quite powerful on their own), is a half-demon, has power granted by motherfucking KIL'JAEDEN, absorbed the power of the skull of Gul'Dan and of the Eye of Sargeras. How could he lose against a (powerful but still) human?
  • Illidan never drew power from the Eye or got any from Kil'jaeden. And even if he had, much of his ability comes from his sorcery, whereas Arthas was more a physical fighter with some magic skills. Since their duel was a straight sword fight, it's not surprising Arthas came out ahead.
  • Then the question become why didn't Illidan just desintegrated Arthas before the duel even began ?
  • For the entirety of the final mission the Lich King was putting all of his remaining power into Arthas and the forces around Icecrown. Arthas was as powerful at this point as he had ever been.
  • There are several reasons for Illidan to lose. First, Illidan had been imprisoned for thousands of years and was out of practice and even then in the fight he had Arthas outmatched. The novels state that in the fight Illidan got overconfident and in his overconfidence left an opening which Arthas exploited to win the fight.
  • The lich king, and thus Arthas was ALSO empowered by motherfucking kil'jaeden

Being undead sucks, or does it?

• It seems most undead hate their existence (most notably Sylvanas) but when Arthas first becomes a death knight he seems to rather enjoy it so what is the deal with undeath exactly
  • Whether or not one enjoys being undead depends on the morality and desires of the undead. There are abilities that undead have and drawbacks.
  • Necromancy is unnatural and being in a state of undeath has their soul/body's react so poorly by way of saying "this should not be happening". When you're raised into undeath, you basically have your soul torn out imperfectly and crammed back into your body, taken from whatever afterlife you were heading towards (most likely the Shadowlands). This has the negative effect of screwing your emotions big time, not unlike the chemical imbalance in your brain when you suffer depression (I'm REALLY simplifying that but you see what I'm getting at) and making sure all of those negative emotions even more prevalent. Plus, you're inhabiting what is pretty much your dead body which will be several shades of screwed up as well.
    • As for Arthas, he had his soul sucked out but he didn't actually die. He's kind of the exception to the rule, the others being people who didn't mind or wanted to become what they did (Kel'thuzad, Second Generation Death Knights, Liches, etc). The rest didn't, so their souls 'resisted' the process and they came back wrong as a result.
  • Undeaths has positives and negatives, if all you want is power like Arthas and Kel'thuzad theres bascilly no drawback other then a weakness to the light, but if you want say, any semblence of a normal life it sucks ass, your senses are dulled or non existant so food all tastes like ass, your deformed and smell like your food tastes, your emotions and especially empathy are stunted and more then likely your downstairs dont work either
  • Arthas became undead in his pursuit of the power to kill Mal'ganis. Sylvanas - and presumably many others - became undead after being brutally murdered. It's at least partly a circumstantial thing.

The world no longer needs guardians

• In the ending cutscene to Reign of Chaos, Medivh says the world no longer needs guardians. Huh? Sure the mortals managed to beat off the Burning Legion, but it was a hell of a near-run thing. Not to mention that if the guardians were so powerful (Aegwynn defeated Sargeras) then having one around would help avert a lot of the lives lost in the war.
  • His role in the game basically comes down to bullying the Alliance, Horde, and Night Elves into getting to the same place and working together to stop Archimonde. He never actually directly intervened. I guess he felt that once they'd all understood how to fight together, from then on it was up to them.
  • I think the point was that the more directly Guardians intervene, the greater the danger of them effing things up. Aegwynn defeating Sargeras, for example, led to Sargeras corrupting Medivh. Who knows what the Legion might have done if Medivh had actually used his "tremendous power" during the Third War? (At the very least, Tichondrius would have figured out that he was mistaken in assuming that Medivh was dead.)

The Culling of Stratholme

• Alright, I understand Arthas was already quite nuts, enough to decide he'd rather commit mass murder of innocents instead of them being turned into the undead, but did he really think his plan could have worked? What was stopping the Scourge from raising the people Arthas killed by his hand? I can guess Arthas Didn't Think This Through and Mal'ganis was probably playing along (otherwise his actions wouldn't make sense either) but I'm surprised this is never brought up.
  • We do not really see the difference between people turned by the plague and people turned by ordinary necromancy, but Mal'Ganis apparently was aiming for the former to do its job, so he must have his reasons. It's also possible Arthas' men make quite sure the bodies they leave behind cannot be salvaged by the Scourge, such as mangling them, burning them, or warding them against necromancy.
    • We see the inhabitants of Stratholme piling bodies onto pyres in the next interlude, after Arthas and his men have departed for Northrend, so if Arthas and his men had mangled or burned the bodies, they clearly hadn't done a very thorough job of it.
  • IIRC, by that point Arthas had only ever seen the plague turn people into zombies, not corpses outright being raised into them. Abominations maybe, but those look like they'd take some work to construct. Killing everyone in Stratholm meant that the transformation thing wouldn't work, and at worst Mal'Ganis would have to fight Arthas for control of the bodies.
    • Arthas did see Kel'Thuzad reanimate a pair of corpses two missions before he saw the plague work its magic on living humans.

Arthas 'The Betrayer'

• I just realized; most of Arthas's actions as Undead aren't really his own actions but Nerzhul controlling him through Frostmorne (and becoming Undead). It's not until he becomes the new Lich King that he has his free will restored. As such, during WarCraft 3, shouldn't some people realize that Arthas is nothing more then a pawn like any other ghoul? The last they saw of him was him going to Northrend for some amount of time, and then when he returns he looks different, has a terribly evil looking weapon, murders his father (which no one was expecting) and then starts leading the Scourge's forces. I understand that common people would just assume that Arthas betrayed the kingdom, but certainly people who knew Arthas personally (like Uther and Jaina) would realize Arthas wasn't in control of his actions?
  • The problem is that the last act he committed before going to Northrend was the Culling of Stratholme, a horrific act regardless of the necessity, and at that point he still appeared to be himself. Kel'thuzad's revelation that Arthas was the Lich King's intended champion all along would indeed affect their opinions of him, but the only one to hear it was Arthas himself. It is interesting to note that his almost final words were "Father! Is it... over?".
  • He certainly crossed the Moral Event Horizon before being taken over. The Culling of Stratholme is widely considered this in-universe, but it's highly debated among the fandom. Him having the ships destroyed (stranding his men in Northrend) and pinning the blame on the mercs that he hired, is far less debatable.

Who would have fought under Illidan just after his release?

• After Tyrande freed Illidan from his prison, with Furion having made it abundantly clear that it was entirely devoid of his blessing, Illidan went after the Skull of Gul'dan, with some prodding from Arthas. My question is: How did Illidan get a base from which to attack Tichondrius's forces? He was either an unknown night-elf, or The Betrayer, to any who he could enlist. The only benefactor I can see would be Tyrande, but I can imagine Furion being, well, furious if she gave Illidan some of their forces as well as freeing him. And if she did, why did nobody ever bring it up? Like, "You not only freed him, slaughtering his guards in the process, but gave him an army?!"

Sylvanas's paralyzing arrow

• After Arthas escapes from the Capital City in The Frozen Throne, we are met with a cutscene where he's ambushed by Sylvanas, who fires a paralyzing arrow on him, which she states won't let him even run. Except... that Arthas is on a horse. Unless she's that exceptionally good of an archer to apply the arrow on both Arthas and Invincible, Arthas could either jump off Invincible or just order it to keep running.
  • Arthas: Rise of the Lich King addresses this, showing that the arrow immobilised him so quickly that he could barely hang on to Invincible, let alone jump off or goad him to flee.

Night Elven Control

• In WarCraft 3, Tyrande Whisperwind, who is essentially the Queen of the Night Elves, wants to free Illidan Stormrage from his prison, but other Night Elves, who should answer to her, try to kill her to stop her from releasing him. On top of that, Maeiv Shadowsong, the Warden of the Prison, who should also answer to Tyrande, wants to recapture Illidan even though he's technically been pardoned of his original crime. Why are these Night Elves completely ignoring Tyrande? Is she not in charge of the Night Elves?

The Skull of Gul'Dan

• Since the Skull of Gul'Dan is literally Gul'Dan's skull, and Demon Hunters take on the form of the Demon they consume (at least according to World of WarCraft), shouldn't Illidan look more like an Orc, or even a decrepit Orc like Gul'Dan, and not like a Nathrazim?
  • Gul'Dan is not a demon. Fel-infused as fuck, yes, but not a demon. The first named demon he slew after he metamorphosed was Tichondrius, a Nathrezim