Headscratchers / Fury (2014)

• How is it that Fury managed to drive into a minefield with only one mine in it? At no point after the mine crippled the tank does anyone search for (Or find, one way or the other) any other mines, despite the fact that apart from one short scene, the rest of the movie takes place within five hundred yards of where they found that landmine.
  • It's a crossroads; laying a single mine there in the middle of the road was actually something the Germans often did at that stage of the war, just to screw with people. Even if there are other mines there they could well be set for vehicles and won't go off under the pressure of just a man.
  • It's more than just screwing with people. You can bring an entire battle group to a halt with a single mine. Once that one mine is detonated, the pace slows— you're now transporting wounded, one or more of your vehicles may be damaged or destroyed, and you are damn sure now searching for more mines. Mines are area-denial weapons... and so is paranoia.
  • Anti-tank and anti-vehicle mines are made to go off when a certain amount of pressure is applied to their trigger. It'd be a waste blowing up a squad of soldiers for a weapon designed to immobilize vehicles. As well a single mine in a crossroad could cause an entire convoy that might roll through to halt and do a sweep for more mines.
  • Also by that point in the war, the Germans likely didn't even have enough mines to lay a proper minefield anyways.
• By April 1945, there were literally millions of American troops across Europe, mopping up German resistance in France or fighting on the frontlines in Germany. So of all these soldiers, why in the hell is an Army desk jockey with no combat experience sent to replace the previous gunner?
  • Reality Is Unrealistic in play, even late in the war, Sherman crews had a high turnover rate, and would often be assigned whomever.
    • By that time, Allied supply lines were extended from the Normandy beaches all the way into Germany, almost entirely on dirt roads. Ports, railroads, and other infrastructure were in ruins. Priority was placed on moving fuel, ammo, food, and medical supplies forward and moving casualties back. Replacement personnel going to the front were squeezed into whatever little space was left. Norman was snatched to be a replacement tanker because he was the first warm body that happened to be there when they needed one. This actually happened quite a bit in real life, even as the war was ending.
  • As well it'd be easier to press a desk jockey into some of the auxiliary positions in a tank than trying to pull an infantry man from his unit to do so. The war was over but they still had to keep throwing warm bodies into the grinder which means even the support personnel would find themselves suddenly posted in a combat role.
  • In the last months of the war, the Allies were pulling men from wherever they could find them to keep the front line units moving forward. A pause to regroup and reinforce would allow the Germans time to do the same. Even the hundreds of bombers seen flying overhead in one scene were likely missing aircrew as airmen were being pulled from flying duty to fill gaps in ground units, especially as the USAAF and RAF were well past the point of overwhelming the Luftwaffe and now saw Anti-Air artillery units, rather than fighter planes, as their primary threat.
• It looks like Eugenia Kuzmina's role of "Edith Meier" listed in the credits is the attractive blonde walking her bicycle past Fury early in the film. Anyone know if this name has any significance? Why bother giving an extra with no lines a first and last name?
  • IMDB lists the 'Pretty Girl On Bike' as played by Christina Wolfe. Her character doesn't have a name. Eugenia Kuzmina's character (whom IMDB calls 'Hilda Meier') may have been one of the Hitler Youth that surrendered though it's hard to see why her character was named. Perhaps she originally had a bigger role. Oddly, several of the German officers in the final battle are also given names though none of them are mentioned in the film. Maybe the 'German' actors went through bootcamp training before the film and some were allocated names to add to the authenticity and encourage group cohesion?
• During Fury's last stand, why did the crew leave their crates of extra ammunition outside the tank?
  • Space inside of a tank is at a premium and saved for munitions to operate the main cannon as well as the auxiliaries for a short period of time. So munitions for the coaxial and bow guns would be kept outside the tank to save room. The other reason why is for drama and to put the cast in greater peril for entertainment.
  • Probably also to reduce the chance of the ammo cooking off and exploding inside the tank, which was always a concern for tankers.
• During the final battle, we see SS soldiers opening crates of Panzerfausts. But when Norman spotted the formation, some of the soldiers were already carrying Panzerfausts. What happened to those? Did the soldiers carrying them get gunned down before they got in firing range? If so, why didn't other soldiers pick them up? After all, they said they had very few of them, so why leave behind weapons they needed?
  • Chalk this up to a small continuity issue. Though given they were attacking the lone tank at night, it's likely the were lost in the dark and unable to be retrieved.
    • "Hey, Private Schmuckatelli [or German equivalent], see all those dead guys piled up in front of that enemy tank? One of them had an AT rocket. It's probably still somewhere over there. Go find it. Oh, by the way, the tank is still shooting everything that moves. Good luck with that!"
  • The whole final battle is an exercise in hobbling and stupefying the attacking SS in order to allow for Fury's Last Stand. The first bit, with the Germans marching up to it and then trying to open it might still be excusable (arguably though there would be at least some veterans who have an idea that holding fire til the last minute might be a good ambush technique) but everything from that point has to be simply chalked up to the overriding need of the narrative. There is no logical explanation for any of it. Not for the SS running over the open field instead of pulling back, not for them clustering in the farmhouse, not for umpteenth 'frontal assault', nothing. Logically an immobile tank so close to covered ways of movement for foot troops would kill a few in the first surprise firestorm of lead and shells and then be quickly destroyed by a small team of infantry tank hunters either by mines, panzerfausts or hand grenades without doing much beyond sitting there and waiting for the second wave to materialise.
  • It could also just be simple incompetence. By that stage in the war, the SS were not that much better off than the regular German army and had to rely on inexperienced conscripts to fill their ranks.
• Given that it's April 1945 and the Allies have complete air superiority, would the SS troops have been marching during the day and bunched together with no scouts out?
  • No they wouldn't. In fact, if the US Air Force was even at play in that scene, the crew of Fury wouldn't have been in such a sticky situation in the first place.
• In the beginning of the film, how exactly did Fury's radio operator/bow gunner get killed? By the outside, Fury looks fine other than some mechanical problems Grady was patching up. What scenario would it be possible for enemy action to completely decapitate and mess up their previous bow gunner?
  • It's possible the hatch for the bow gunner was open when they suddenly came under attack. As we see later with Norman, when they are traveling without expecting resistance, the hatches are open with their heads sticking out. An artillery round may have gone off close enough to shred him with shrapnel. As well, given the tank they used is an authenticate machine in someone's private collection, they couldn't just cut a hole to simulate a penetration.
  • Head wounds are extremely common for vehicle crews riding "unbuttoned" with their head outside the hatch. They will frequently ride this way anyway, even in modern warfare, because they have almost no visibility (and situational awareness, which is critical to survival) otherwise. Any number of ways to die could easily have befallen him without causing any damage to the tank.
• How does Wardaddy manage to communicate with both the other tanks and his crew with the same mic? He always talks into it, best shown at the Hedgerow battle and the Tiger scene, and there doesn't seem to be any transition between switching to talk with crew or other tanks. I tried to think that they're all on the same channel, but wouldn't that cause a lot of radio traffic then? How would they be able to hear between one another if everyone in the tank platoon was talking?
  • The internal communication system is wired. Outside communication would only be directed to the earphones/mics of the people who need it. So Wardaddy presses a button when he wants to transmit, and only he transmits over the radio.
    • The intercom system is wired to their throat mikes (those little choker things they wear around their necks). The handset is for the radio.
• Why did the Tiger target the other tanks in the platoon before targeting Fury? Fury had the biggest gun and was therefore the biggest threat.
  • One possible scenario was that the Tiger was actually aiming for Old Phyllis (the M4A1 tank with a 76mm cannon) and didn't compensate enough and ended up hitting Murder Inc (the unfortunate M4A4). The M4A1 would be a good target as well since it has a 76mm cannon which Fury also has. After the hit, the Tiger crew probably thought it would be easier to take out the Shermans from left to right since they started there. Another possibility is that Tiger crew is not well trained so they could be just firing at Shermans at their convenience, this possibility would also explain why the Tiger: 1. Continue moving forward towards the Shermans than stay back and maintain a range advantage, 2. Miss the Shermans at about 800 yards away, and 3. Not knowing that turning the whole Tiger tank body itself is faster than the Tiger's turret traverse speed.
  • They may or may not have been able to recognize which (if any) of the Shermans mounted a high-velocity 76mm gun (two of them did), as the visible differences between the four different models represented in the column are relatively subtle and easily lost among the field modifications, gear, and supplies stacked on each individual tank. Even the upgunned Shermans were very unlikely to kill a Tiger from the front anyway. The Tiger probably advanced to close the range and improve their accuracy after missing a couple of shots. This is a mistake, but Tiger crews made them like anybody else.
  • Chalk it up to extreme inexperience. A trained German tank commander would have targeted the leading tank (which would be Fury) first in order to halt the movement of the entire convoy.
• Would that Tiger tank really have been out by itself with no infantry support?
  • Extremely unlikely, this is probably just a case of Hollywood Tactics. Heavy tanks were very expensive and valuable throughout the entire war, so no way that the Germans would use them as mere tank destroyers in 1945. Sending a tank (even a Tiger) out all alone is an excellent way to get it destroyed or captured in no time; tanks were always supported by infantry.
  • Despite the fact that normal tanks operate in pairs, it is entirely possible that the Tiger was rendered alone suddenly. Its 'partner' may have suffered a breakdown, and was unable to take part in the fight. The tank we see may have been covering for its 'partner' so that its crew could've at least saved themselves after scuttling the tank.
    • You know, considering that "rendered alone suddenly" is exactly how the movie starts for the eponymous tank...
  • Still, considering the desperate state the German army was in during April 1945, them being forced to deploy a single Tiger to hold an important road isn't all that implausible.
  • This is April 1945 we're discussing; by that point in the war the Wehrmacht was close to being totally exhausted as a effective fighting force in any meaningful way, to the point where Hitler was in his bunker giving orders to divisions and entire armies which literally no longer existed. The Germans would have almost certainly liked to give the Tiger infantry support or to have paired it with another tank, but that's kind of hard if all the infantrymen are dead, deserting or are somehow miles away from where they're supposed to be in the confusion, and all the other tanks it could be paired with have been broken down or been blown up by the enemy.
  • I was always of the opinion that the Tiger was there to act as the armored support for the SS Battalion. It would make sense, given it's placement in relation to the crossroads that the Battalion was approaching, and the combination would make sense given the circumstances. Then, spotting four Shermans approaching the crossroads and basically did what Fury did: cause as many casualties to the enemy as possible to cripple their operation. That would explain why it was alone without infantry (they were marching to meet it) and why it attacked alone (preemptively protecting the infantry). We also need to remember that, if not for sheer luck/plot armor, one of the two solid hits it landed on Fury would have killed it. Then, the SS Battalion, totally fresh compared to the US Infantry, with a Tiger in support, would have attacked. Without their own armor, and with the 300 SS guys keeping them from getting close enough to infantry-kill the Tiger, the US troops would have been soundly defeated.
• Is the panzerfaust penetration of Fury realistically depicted? Given some comments on the main page, and elsewhere. I wrote one anecdotally about a Quora user who had stated that the penetration of Grady's chest looked as though it was depicting the missile as a solid object, rather than the cone of molten plasma that these warheads actually produced. But I looked back at the scene and guess that it still could have been a plasma projectile, unless the cone should have radiated outwards a lot further with distance? So is the projectile's depiction realistic? Also, wouldn't the heat alone have been enough to burn and kill the other crewmembers (even though the main page states that the lack of bullets and tank shells inside the tank is probably what saved them by not being present to be cooked off)? And even if not quite that hot, wouldn't it be dangerous for Boyd to hug and cradle Grady's body immediately after being impaled by the projectile?
  • It was underplayed, ignoring the thermal and mechanical shock that would've been present from an actual penetration like that, but absolutely ignoring spalling: the fragmentation of the inner face of the armor under the shock of the impact, which acts like a massive grenade. However, through-and-through shots like that which didn't substantively damage the tank were not unheard of at all, and history records plenty of occasions where a Sherman took a hit that missed anything flammable and kept on fighting. Realistically, a hit to the fuel or munitions was necessary to cause a catastrophic failure, as seen earlier when Lieutenant Parker's tank was hit in convoy. The through-and-through of the turret, missing the cannon breech (which may not even have been loaded at the time), shouldn't have caused significant damage. It probably would, however, have set Grady on fire.
• Isn't Wardaddy's execution of a German soldier technically a war crime? "But the German was wearing an American jacket he stole from a soldier he very likely killed and fighting by impersonating the enemy is ALSO a war crime that warrants death!" ... Except the German WASN'T "disguising" himself with the intent of fighting, he only wore ONE single element of clothing over himself? Except we have NO idea how he got that jacket? He could've totally picked it up from a fallen US soldier? If merely wearing an enemy clothing is a crime, then what about Sergeant Miles doing the same by wearing the Luftwaffe jacket? And this isn't like Saving Private Ryan, unlike Miller's squad Wardaddy and his men HAD the means to take prisoners of war and we see them doing that when they take over the town, killing a surrendering enemy soldier that was disarmed and posing no threat is a war crime because Wardaddy decided to be judge, jury and executioner right there and then for being in full control of the situation with a "It's not a war crime, I'm just paying evil unto evil!" mindset, if he didn't die and made it back home, I doubt he would get away scot-free if his superiors found out about this episode.
  • It's a grey area. On the one hand, it is technically perfidy, the war crime of engaging in combat under protected symbols or use of enemy uniforms outside of the context of a ruse of war (e.g. bluffing past sentries). However, the actual definitions and delineations of perfidy weren't actually established until 1977; the First Geneva Conventions of 1864 and 1904 were mainly concerned only with conduct toward wounded and medical personnel. The modern laws of war weren't installed until 1949, so things like waging war wearing someone else's uniform weren't covered. A US military tribunal in 1947 convened to try a German officer who deliberately sent his men into combat wearing stolen US uniforms was found not guilty. (It also helped spur the inclusion of a full definition of perfidy in the 1949 rewrite of the Geneva Conventions. So, technically, the German infantryman hadn't done anything wrong under the written laws of war of the time - one set of them. However, on the flip side, the Hague Convention of 1899 specifically forbids the killing of surrenderees.^note Section II, Chapter I, Article 23: Besides the prohibitions provided by special Conventions, it is especially prohibited: ... To kill or wound an enemy who, having laid down arms, or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion That same Article, however, also prohibits "...improper use of a flag of truce, the national flag, or military ensigns and the enemy's uniform..." which means that under the Hague Conventions, the German infantryman had also broken the laws of war. The problem - and why the aforementioned tribunal ended up voting not guilty - is that the Hague Convention doesn't actually explain what constitutes "improper use," thus making a case for Collier. Was it wrong? Yes. Was it legal? Debatable, and that's why in 1949 and again in 1977 the codes and laws were amended to eliminate the grey area here. As for what happened during the capture of the town to the surrendered SS officer... when faced with atrocities and inhumanity like what was seen on the approach to that town, a more primal form of justice became hard to deny. Had a superior officer found out - unlikely as nobody would be too inclined to make a report - Collier likely would've gotten a slap on the wrist. History is littered all the way back with events like that.
• It should be noted that by this point in the war, pretty much any American veteran that's managed to survive even a year of combat much less the entire war since the North African Campaign are largely jaded and tired of the fighting. As a means of basic survival, they've all learned to become Combat Pragmatists who only prioritize whatever tactic increases their chances of surviving the war, so they largely won't care about the intricacies of what constitutes a "war crime", especially against a determined and vicious enemy that have already been fighting for years on end. They are perfectly aware what they're doing is likely wrong, but they simply just don't care. In addition, one of their justifications for killing that German soldier was that since he was wearing an American soldier's jacket, he logically must have killed an American soldier or looted the body of one to get his hands on it. Still not perfect, but still a very understandable reason why a bunch of grizzled foot soldiers who've likely seen many of their buddies die would go through with it.
  • Also worth considering that by this point, evidence of the Holocaust has been uncovered and word has spread about exactly what the Nazis have been doing to the 'undesirables' in the territories they've been occupying. This did not exactly put Allied soldiers in much of a mood to play nice, especially not with members of the SS.