SPOILERS ARE UNMARKED, READ WITH CAUTION!
Fridge Horror for Undertale. Fridge Brilliance can be found here.
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Part 1
- One post
from Flowey on the Twitter page winds up Crossing the Line Twice after you've played the game:Strive every day to increase your "LOVE." Remember, "LOVE" comes easiest from friends and family. =)- This gets even worse after you discover Flowey's backstory in the Pacifist route; his death actually did occur because of the plan he hatched with The Fallen Child. Afterwards, they both found themselves involved in the deaths of multitudes, including, in Flowey's case, his own father. LOVE really does come easiest from friends and family.
- Your room in Toriel's house has lots of toys and shoes. Plus there's a chocolate bar in her fridge. Clearly these all belonged to kids that she rescued before. The same can be said of the equipment you find through the game, which are all used by their souls during the Omega Flowey battle, as mentioned above.
- One reason why a few players believed until the end that Toriel was actually Affably Evil was because the boxes filled with shoes look a lot like Losing a Shoe in the Struggle; some Let's Players even mentioned it reminding them a lot of the heaps of shoes that Nazis collected during the Holocaust.
- Also worth noting is that in a Genocide run, once you reach Asgore's home and Chara is more or less dominant. Chara's first reaction upon seeing the fridge is to complain over the lack of chocolate.
- One reason why a few players believed until the end that Toriel was actually Affably Evil was because the boxes filled with shoes look a lot like Losing a Shoe in the Struggle; some Let's Players even mentioned it reminding them a lot of the heaps of shoes that Nazis collected during the Holocaust
- In the corner of your room, there's a child's drawing of a flower posted up on the wall. Easy to overlook at first, but after seeing the culmination of Flowey's Batman Gambit, it takes on an entirely sinister connotation.
- Toriel idly bats aside Flowey like a pesky bug with a single fireball in the beginning. And then you find out much, much later that Flowey is basically her bloodborn child reincarnated into an apathetic flower with no soul. She unwittingly shot her own son and had no idea.
- Toriel asks you to fight her to "prove" that you can survive in the underground. But, despite how much damage you inflict on her, she never surrenders, never admits that you're strong enough. So, either she's trying to stop you at all costs even if it'll kill her… or she actively wants you to kill her because she can't take it anymore.
- We don't get many clues as to what the six humans that came before the protagonist and after the Fallen Child were like, but what we do implies that a couple of them were just as cruel as the player can be. Most prominently, the ballet shoes "make you feel dangerous" and the tutu is covered in dust…
- The whole deal with Sans' "dead where you stand" speech, though not in the way you might think. Frisk still has the power to Reset, and would therefore survive the attack. Sans would end up trapped in the same Hopeless Boss Fight situation he enters in a Genocide route, except this time it would be his fault. And Frisk would have every reason to assume the worst of the rest of the Underground, likely leading to a Genocide run.
- If you die to Asgore, the Talk command will have you tell him that "he's killed you [x] times already." Which he fully acknowledges. Asgore is either very accepting of that possibility despite its seeming outlandishness, or he is very aware of the SAVE function. More so, his voice encourages you to not give up in the Game Over screen. He does not want to kill you this much. And he knows exactly how many times he had to kill a child around presumably eight years old.
- Alternatively, a more chilling idea for the Game Over speech he gives you: he's saying the Fallen Child's name, not Frisk's. It's a memory to when the Fallen was dying due to their self-poisoning, since the speech is semi-derived from one of the VHS tapes of their family, not Asgore himself trying to encourage you or Frisk to continue.
- This is supported by the "this is all just a bad dream" line you get for losing to Photoshop Flowey not being on those VHS tapes.
- Speaking of the Talk ACT, using it three times will cause Asgore to have a moment of recollection that halves his ATK and DEF, which can make you wonder; out of the seven humans that died in the underground, how many of them faced Asgore? And how many of them used their final words to beg Asgore to spare them, only for Asgore to force himself to deliver the killing blow?
- Toriel's What the Hell, Hero? speech during the Pacifist run strongly implies that no child ever made it to him. All he ever got to see were their souls being delivered to him. Frisk/Chara is the first child that ever made it to him alive, which adds another kind of Fridge Horror: he not only has to become someone who Would Hurt a Child, he also has to kill one that looks a lot like one he had once loved and lost. The fight against Frisk is the absolute nightmare of every adult that ever had to go through losing a child.
- Toby Fox has now confirmed that they all made it to Asgore… and were all slaughtered by him.
- Alternatively, a more chilling idea for the Game Over speech he gives you: he's saying the Fallen Child's name, not Frisk's. It's a memory to when the Fallen was dying due to their self-poisoning, since the speech is semi-derived from one of the VHS tapes of their family, not Asgore himself trying to encourage you or Frisk to continue.
- No Mercy Path:
- In the No Mercy path, Sans attempts to be the most frustrating possible challenge in the hopes that the player will give up and either reset or abandon the game. But he's actually such an intense and stylish opponent that, along with Undyne the Undying, he winds up drawing players into ruining everything just for the sake of battling him.
- In conjunction with the above, Sans' 'special attack' consists of him just stalling, hoping you'll get bored and quit. This takes place after he throws everything but the kitchen sink at you in an attempt to frustrate you into giving up. If Sans had simply refused to use his turn from the start, rather than going all-out and trying it only when he was exhausted from the previous fight, he might have been able to stay awake much longer, turning his battle from an intense and stylish one into a struggle against boredom. How many Genocide runs might never have happened if it was known that the the Sans battle was just incredibly dull rather than the game's ultimate challenge? How many times has Sans caused his brother and friends to die by so terribly miscalculating, assuming that a frustrating battle would deter the player, when it's actually the only reason many players did a Genocide run to begin with?
- What happens if the player decides never to complete the Genocide run, but wants to fight Sans over and over? Sans learns the hard way that his ploy to stop the player from destroying all timelines worked far too well.
- On top of this, Mettaton NEO's theme song, "Power of 'NEO'", is even a reference to this. It carries the same basic melody as "Battle Against A True Hero", the song that plays when you fight Undyne the Undying. However, it's just that melody, repeated ad-infinitum for 30 seconds, before looping. It's all style and no substance, just like the actual fight with Mettaton NEO.
- Near the end of the No Mercy path, the player finds the Real Knife in place of the Worn Dagger. Although it's likely Toby already had something like this in mind, this item began as a rumor about the demo version. To find out whether it was true or not, people went on a rampage through the Ruins. After it was disproved, people hoped it eventually would be implemented. And when the Fallen Child gets their hands on it, they're all left satisfied. It sure turned out to be a symbol of the bond between players and their murderous little avatar.About time.
- Another thing to consider is that even though the Real Knife and The Locket maximize the player's stats, there's no one left in the game to really use them on, as Sans can't be hit normally and drains HP regardless of defense. Were those 99’s really worth all the bloodshed?Every time a number increases. That feeling… That's me.
- In a No Mercy run, practically anything can be killed in one hit, so it's somewhat strange that it takes four hits to do Flowey in. Until you realize that maybe, just maybe, those multiple hits were intentional. After all, remember what he does right before you kill him: shift his face and voice to match Asriel's, the Fallen Child's adoptive brother.
- Likely, considering that Asriel "ruined" their original plan by trying to fight back against Chara/The Fallen's soul. So this could be interpreted as, The Fallen was maybe considering letting Asriel/Flowey go until they remembered that, hence the pause before the button push, but then got so angry with Flowey that they chopped him up into bits.
- More likely, since Frisk/Chara won't know about the circumstances of Flowey's creation in this timeline, is that the Fallen thinks that Flowey is using his death to mock them. Even if we assume that the Fallen is totally evil, they obviously had a connection to Asriel, or even just might view that death as "their" subject to mock – so there's no way they'd be pleased with Flowey attempting to profit off of Asriel's death, even just to save his own life.
- Why don't you get Mercy Invincibility in the fight with Sans? Because you've had no mercy the entire time.
- It's more likely that it's because it seems likely that Sans is a Darkner, and not a Monster. While Monsters are made up of Mercy, compassion, and love, Darkners are made up of flesh and bone like humans. Sans doesn't give the option of Mercy Invincibility not because you don't necessarily deserve it, but because he's a Darkner and can willingly choose to give you that option because he isn't made up of Mercy.
- It's more likely that it's because it seems likely that Sans is a Darkner, and not a Monster
- And when you finally get to meet Asgore, you'll notice there's no Mercy button, and Asgore didn't even get to break the Mercy button on his own. Want to know why? Because you have removed the mercy.
- And by the time you meet Flowey, you automatically kill him, and you don't even have the interface when you fight him. Why? Because you were so desperate you're willing to go for Interface Screw just to kill someone, you stripped giving mercy out of your mind, and you automatically decided the only thing you do is to Fight. Furthermore, it's implied that the Fallen Child is in more control of your actions than you are.
- One of the creatures in The True Lab, "Lemon Bread", has the in-battle dialog "welcome to my special hell", and generally seems to be in a much worse state of mind than the other monsters in the area. Well, they're a fusion of the brother of Aaron, who's characterized by being very touchy-feely, and a Moldbygg and the sister of Shyren, both of whom care a lot about their personal boundaries (Moldbygg is spared with the "Don't Hug" action). Aaron's poor brother is in there somewhere, probably very scared and in need of the affection his kind craves, but will never get it again, while Shyren's sis and the Moldbygg are eternally fused to others, eliminating the chance they'll ever have personal space again. Special hell indeed.
- The Fallen Child:
- Imagine waking up in a bed of golden flowers, and the last thing you remember is being viciously attacked by a band of humans that ended up killing you and your adoptive brother, because of a plan you created with him. Suddenly, another human shows up and begins to kill each and every last monster they come across with no exceptions, even murdering your adoptive family.
- An interesting change occurs in the ending to a second No Mercy run, which may imply that the Fallen Child may not exactly be human, or may have something else pulling the strings…
- "Greetings, I'm [NAME]. Thank you. Your power awakened me from death. My "human soul". My "determination". They were not mine, but YOURS. At first, I was so confused. Our plan had failed, hadn't it? Why was I brought back to life? ... You. With your guidance. I realized the purpose of my reincarnation. Power. Together, we eradicated the enemy and became strong. HP. ATK. DEF. GOLD. EXP. LV. Every time a number increases, that feeling… That's me. "[NAME]". Now. Now, we have reached the absolute. There is nothing left for us here. Let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next."
- And from the speech above, although the Fallen Child and the Player are technically separate entities, it's not hard to realize that they're not that different given that pretty much every RPG has players grinding up on monsters (or even other people depending on story context) to become the strongest and complete the game. And to the child, everything is a game — even humanity and the monsters. They're all EXP to them, so they'll destroy the world and move on to the next to 'play in'. Just like you would any other video game.
- The entire twist that the child intentionally had themself killed by eating fresh, non-dried Buttercups, or Ranunculus. Poisonous to cattle, stock, and basically any normal living person, the symptoms of ingesting a buttercup are downright awful, to say the least. All to probably make their own demise as horrifying and traumatizing as possible to their adoptive family. If that isn't disturbing enough, Asriel and the Child 'accidentally' fed Asgore buttercups instead of cups of butter in a butterscotch pie, which makes you wonder if the Child basically tried assassinating him previously via illness just to disrupt everything.
- When you finally get to see them in-person, the Fallen Child is notably paler than Frisk despite the fact that in-story they seem almost identical in various ways. But on a No Mercy run, Frisk is noted to have white dust on their hands. As in, monster dust. It could very well be that the Fallen Child we see at the end is so pale because they're physically covered in the dust of all the monsters we murdered — and still smiling like it's not even there.
- Also a bit of WMG. At the end of a Genocide run, the Fallen Child states that they were brought back by your determination. When were you at your most determined? During the fight with Asriel at the end of the True Pacifist run. This, of course, assumes that the player went for the True Pacifist run first. Judging by the Genocide route all on its own, the player's determination was there from the start and just kept growing with each kill.
- The Player Character avatar Frisk is clearly possessed by the Fallen Child throughout the entirety of the game. (Your first battle encounter, with Flowey, doesn't even have the name the player chose listed, so between encountering him and Toriel rescuing you, the Fallen Child gets stirred up.) If you walk the No Mercy route, the Fallen Child relearns their violent tendencies, which transfers into all the flavour text that they give you. However, if you go True Pacifist, their violent presence entirely vanishes and they're really not mentioned again. So what happened to Frisk's possession? Well, you stopped controlling Frisk and went on to play another game, didn't you?
- If a popular fan theory is indeed correct, you are actually the reason Chara/The Fallen Child becomes evil on the Genocide Route. Your mass murder convinces them that they were revived from the dead solely to kill, and they therefore help you towards that goal. The Fallen Child's own dialogue seems to support this.Fallen Child: At first, I was so confused.
Our plan had failed, hadn't it?
Why was I brought back to life?
...
You.
With your guidance.
I realized the purpose of my reincarnation.
Power.
- Post-No Mercy:
- You learn that the Fallen Child's avatar is summoned by saying their name. With this knowledge, now looking at Flowey's post-True Pacifist speech, it ends with: "See you later… (name)." Yes, he's addressing YOU specifically, but the tragic irony is that the Fallen's name is the same as what you input. For all the trouble Flowey/Asriel went through, they've unwittingly doomed themselves to becoming a hellbent sociopath again. Even in the Golden Ending, Asriel ends up suffering…
- Even worse, the whole flow of the game was designed to be spoiled by the Fallen Child, and ends tragically. For now. Firstly, you do the normal neutral run. Then you want to see the true end, and Asriel calls the name of the Fallen. This is the first time you're called that out loud. Then the next logical step for the player is to check what happens on the genocidal route... Before you reset, Asriel begs you to not ruin the lives of your friends, that what you're doing is even more monstrous than what he was going to do. Little does he know, you're far worse. Furthermore, you murder the entire Underground. And if you refuse to destroy the whole world with the Fallen's help in the ending, it says that you never were in control. And as soon as you started thinking to kill all the monsters, you weren't, as the Fallen is the embodiment of the player's murderous intent. And when the typical player realises that this loop was happening? In the second pacifist route. After selling Frisk's SOUL to the Fallen. When the player knows what "Player Name" and being called that out loud really means. And this ending is spoiled by the Fallen's entity already. And the only way to prevent this loop is to call your character by their true name — Frisk. Which starts Hard mode. Which doesn't seem like it will be a reality, not from Toby Fox at least.
- Towards the end of the No Mercy run, the player finds the fabled "Real Knife" which maximizes their ATK, but why does this item show up so late in the game? Up to this point, most of the bosses have been easy to kill simply because the evil and hate in Frisk is so strong, and the fight against Asgore is no different, so having your attack power be so high is cool, but incredibly unnecessary. Then, the ending shows the Fallen Child, who has been in control of Frisk the entire time, and if turned down on helping them erase the world, they kill Frisk, and the screen fills up with a damage counter filled with '9's. The knife was never intended to be used by Frisk. The knife was for the Fallen Child the whole time.
- In a No Mercy run, Alphys evacuates everybody to "a place you'll never find them". What this means is more than likely the True Lab. With all the Amalgamates. She also mentions in the "whiff Mettaton NEO" ending that saving everyone meant they all learned the truth about her, having to meet the Amalgamates first-hand, no doubt.
- More likely, they're all hanging out in part of the second floor of Hotland which is blocked off during a No Mercy run.
- Another thing about Alphys in No Mercy. Undyne tells you that she was watching you fight "in case anything went wrong." She tells you this as she's dying from overusing the same power that created the Amalgamates, melting the same way they do. Alphys saw all that. How she manages to stay sane enough to help everyone evacuate in the face of all that is impressive, especially considering she becomes Driven to Suicide in some of the less-drastic endings.
- We actually don't know if she is able to deal with it. Only Undyne and Mettaton mention her evacuating monsters, but when roaming Hotland, there are still plenty of monsters to kill. While it is possible that she did save some, there is also the possibility that seeing Undyne get killed pushed her over the edge, leading to Undyne thinking she will nonetheless save everyone and Mettaton bluffing in the hopes that a few survive when the human thinks that no one else is there.
- Considering Alphys takes over the Underground in a Genocide aborted at the last minute, she had to have survived long enough to at least start the evacuation. It's more likely that what we see is the player hunting down the last few monsters that hadn't managed to get away in time.
- So, the True Pacifist ending is mostly happy; however, there's a lingering issue of the fact of how sensitive to killing intent monsters are, if even a child can hate them really hard (albeit, the Fallen's complete sociopathy affecting Frisk might mean normal humans are incapable of that degree of hate) and that makes them capable of being killed in a single blow by something that's not a weapon, that makes them horrifically vulnerable to the kind of criminals the human world has. Though Asgore seems at least somewhat aware of this when he mentions the human world can be a harsh place, still, everyone shown in the ending seems to be getting along fine.
- When asked, Toby Fox said that in the Golden Ending, humans and monsters will peacefully get along from then on. Why is left open to debate.
- Consider that Chara fell down in 201x, and that it's been many years since then. We can assume that human society has become much more advanced to the point where humans will be tolerant of monsters. At best, maybe humans have come to regret their treatment of the monsters, and they'll actually be happy to see they've returned.
- When asked, Toby Fox said that in the Golden Ending, humans and monsters will peacefully get along from then on. Why is left open to debate.
- Consider the events of the Neutral ending that lead up to the fight against God/Omega Flowey. After killing Asgore, Flowey quits your game, and when you go back to it, the intro is altered to say that humans and monsters, rather than having a war, instead disappeared without a trace, before bugging out and bringing you to Flowey's save file. Now, God Flowey doesn't seem to have the power to actually kill everyone without the seventh human SOUL, as he says he'll only do that once he's finished with you… but his power over the save file gives him the power to affect history. He eliminated the entire history of humans and monsters just so that there was no story that could get in the way of your battle — no story but his, anyway. Of course, regaining control of the save from him allows you to put things back the way they were.
- Why would an approximate eight-year-old be on a mountain that's rumored to kill anyone who climbed it? Why are the Arc Words "But nobody came." so important? This secret room suggests that Frisk's parents might have just left them there…
- On that note, is it any coincidence that the Fallen is an unwanted child brought about by the Player's irresponsible actions and who wants to impose consequences on them? They must've had some reason to hate humanity, after all.
- This is likely just a joke on behalf of Toby Fox, based on a bizarre experience he once had.
- Asriel comments that the Fallen Child was his only friend. Given what we know about that character, the chances that the Fallen specifically took steps to ensure that would be true by driving off anyone else that Asriel could call a friend are extremely high.
- During a No Mercy run, you may notice a few characters try to convince and persuade you to stop. A bit strange at first, until you realize they're not talking to Frisk OR the Fallen Child. They're talking to you, the player, in the hopes of you abandoning the run and start over. You're the only one who can stop this horrible slaughter and you need to do it BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. (Unless, that is, you mess with the save files.)
- At the final battle of the Neutral route, Flowey has a LV of 9999. If both your levels work the same way — roughly the same amount of XP per run, and the population of monsters remains around the same — that means that Flowey killed everyone in the Underground approximately five hundred times before you face him.
- That or, if the corrupted opening you see before the fight begins is anything to go by, as an entry further up suggests, Flowey didn't just kill everyone in the Underground. He killed the monsters and humans of the past as well. And he did it all just to fight you and make you suffer without interruption.
- The alternative is that he's lying/exaggerating. It's sort of a moot point, since no amount of LV will change how much damage a human takes.
- He's exaggerating, LOVE resets when the world does, and he's never been strong enough to kill Asgore or possibly even make it past Sans; he's just maxing out his stats because he's mad with power and wants everyone to know.
- One thing to keep in mind: Someone's LV doesn't increase their damage output for the same reason as in other Role Playing Games. Your LV is your LOVE, meaning your Level Of ViolencE. Your willingness to inflict harm upon others. The reason monsters take so much damage from your attacks if you have a high LV is because their souls are made of magic, which makes them extremely vulnerable to acts fueled by hatred and violence. Putting that into perspective, consider that Flowey has a LV of 9999. By comparison, Chara/the Fallen Child can have, at the end of a true No Mercy run, a maximum LV of 20. The Fallen Child, who is willing to gleefully kill every monster in the underground, instigate a war between humans and monsters in the game's history, and wipes out the entire game world for no reason other than For the Evulz… is close to 10000 points behind Flowey on the scale of how willing they are to hurt people.
- If the player goes full No Mercy in the demo, a special message is left for them on the ending screen saying "That was fun. Let's finish the job." in red text. At the time of release, most assumed it was a message left by Flowey. However, with the full release of the game, it's obvious that it's really from the fallen child/Chara, who speaks through Frisk in red text.
- The song that caps the end of a No Mercy run is Toby Fox's Breakout Pop Hit "Megalovania." Why is this the song for your fight against Sans even though there's an entire separate track for their battle theme? Because it's not their battle theme. It's The Fallen Child's. Consider the previous uses of Megalovania in The Halloween Hack and Homestuck: the callous killing of another major character by a protagonist that had the option to make a less cruel choice but rejected it. Megalovania plays because the real fight here is Sans trying to save the world from an Omnicidal Maniac: the Fallen Child, acting through you.
- To put a finer point on it, Megalovania isn't the theme for Your boss fight against Sans, it's the theme for Sans's boss fight against You.
- This is already proven when fighting Undyne. Before her fight, the player assumes they are still the main character. Undyne the Undying's theme is called "Battle Against A True Hero". By that point, you have officially become the Villain Protagonist and every boss fight is reversed, with you being the Big Bad that a hero has to stop.
- This is further supported by Sans' ability to do a number of things normally restricted to the player, such as taking the first turn, dodging attacks, and making an off-guard kill against an enemy who didn't want to fight.
- In all actuality, it's possible the song is about fighting Megalomaniacs. Vania is a Hebrew baby name which means "God's gift." Sans is using the song to call himself God's gift to megalomaniacs, I.E. you. Which, in a way, he is. Sans breaks so many rules of the game, from removing Mercy Invincibility to attacking you on the menu screen to sneak attacking you to changing the direction of gravity, that he seems impossible to defeat. So killing him would be the ultimate bragging right of any megalomanic.
- Alternatively, having to fight Sans is a reward waiting for megalomaniacs (I.e., if the player wants to have a "fun" time then they'll be gifted with a bad time).
- On the No Mercy route, Sans' "I Surrender, Suckers" instant kill seems like a serious dick move, both in and out of game. However, on further thought, it makes a lot of sense. Aside from said boss doing everything he can to stop a genocidal murderer, the fact that you would almost certainly kill him anyway if he surrendered for real, the thing that really makes it brilliant is… It's the exact thing you did to Papyrus. He immediately surrendered and opened his arms for a hug, and you coldly murdered him. Sans returned the favor for reasons of both pragmatism and giving you a Karmic Death.
- Plus, the game gives the option to make every single monster (except Undyne and Mettaton) spare you during the Genocide run, be it by acting or bringing their health down. Once the monster spares you, every attack will be an instant kill, with some (such as Toriel) even using their last breath to point out how evil and cruel it is. Since it is possible that some players played that way, having Sans use exactly that tactic is just him using your own tricks against you.
- If you call Undyne from the trash zone save point, she tells you about the first time she met Alphys: Alphys was standing on the edge of the waterfall, looking 'thoughtful', and was surprised when Undyne suddenly spoke to her. Undyne herself doesn't seem to realize it (or is hiding it for Frisk's sake), but it's pretty clear that Alphys was considering jumping into the abyss below.
- Undyne either knows or suspects. Watch her eyes during that conversation. She is very animated while talking about how she met Alphys, but she looks to the side once the 'thoughtful' portion is mentioned. She is likely trying to not give it away to Frisk.
- At the end of a No Mercy run, when Flowey is begging for his life, his voice changes to that of Asriel as he cries "Please don't kill me…" and looks at you with terror. You have rendered him so terrified of you he reverted to his childlike state, the same state when he was taking Chara back home when the humans mistook him for having killed Chara himself, and then proceeded to mortally attack him. You are now those humans in his eyes and are now seeing him beg for his life again in front of you… and as before, it doesn't work.
- Since why did you decide to kill Flowey when he was trying to help you?
- It's entirely possible that Chara might have let Flowey live after all, save for one thing: in order to bypass the barrier, a human soul and a monster soul are necessary. Flowey destroyed Asgore's soul, the last Boss Monster soul in the Underground, thus keeping Chara from bypassing the barrier! (Until, perhaps, a True Pacifist run…)
- Related to the above, Flowey is playing The Quisling, trying to convince Chara that he never betrayed them and is on their side... but Flowey just did! Flowey killed Asgore and then deliberately destroyed Asgore's SOUL thus preventing Chara from having any way to get out of the Underground, thus betraying Chara and he doesn't even realize it! To say Flowey's plan backfired is an understatement. Thus Flowey left Chara's convoluted plan to bargin with the player for Frisk's SOUL and eventually get out with a True Pacifist route as the only way to get out of the Underground that they have. Basically, Flowey is what forced the Genocide route's consequences on both Chara and the player.
- At first, Papyrus' comment about having a low follower count online ("I'm only a dozen away from a double-digit follower count!") and Mettaton's comment about his low amount of viewers (it goes from 9 down to 8 and then to 7) seems like funny jabs at how popular they think they are vs how they actually are. This… doesn't really make sense. Papyrus is a well-loved member of the community in Snowdin, and Mettaton is supposed to be one of the biggest stars in the Underground. Then you remember the war between the humans and the monsters, and how so much of the land you travel is empty of life… perhaps the war took more monster lives than we thought.
- Though, the part about Papyrus isn't exactly true. Canonically, Papyrus has very few friends, as shown by his secret desire to make them and the empty mailbox in front of his and Sans' house being implied to belong to him. Sans and Undyne are his only real friends before the player meets up with him.
- The random encounter mechanic itself becomes terrifying in a No Mercy run once you think about it. You know how the encounter rate slows exponentially the more monsters you kill? This means you have to move more to get into the next fight. Now imagine it from the monsters' point of view: You are actively chasing down the remaining monsters as they're fleeing in terror from a Serial Killer, and they only fight when there's nowhere else to run, in a desperate attempt to buy the others some time.
- Why does Omega Flowey have a screaming human's face on its monitor? That could've been one of the faces of the six human souls he absorbed. The face changes every time he changes attacks.
- Flowey lacked a SOUL, yet he had shown anger (and during No Mercy, he was shown to be perfectly capable of feeling fear). Monster souls are made of mercy, and compassion, and love. It was those feelings he can't feel anymore.
- Someone pointed out that King Asgore couldn't have possibly killed all of the Human SOULs. Most monsters aren't familiar with how a human should properly look, except Asgore and Toriel, who raised a human child, and Sans, who actively addresses the player as a human when he meets them. Now, notice how the equipment the player finds around the underground never even comes close to reaching Asgore's castle…
- In fact, Toriel actually called Asgore out on this during the Pacifist ending about how he is such a coward, waiting in New Home and hoping that no child makes it to him (or even falls down to begin with). Chances are that Frisk is the first child to ever have reached his throne room and thus force Asgore to raise his weapon against a human.
- There's a huge Plot Hole with the neutral ending. How on earth did the protagonist cross the barrier if they lacked a monster SOUL? Flowey destroyed Asgore's SOUL, so there's no way that the protagonist kept one on them from any other monster they may have killed. Except… there's nothing to indicate the human left the underground at all. Sans calls them up and they don't pick up, so he just leaves a message. Also, he probably would not be able to reach the human's phone if they were in the overworld, leaving a heavy implication that the human died trapped underground.
- However, if one takes the view that there is no continuity when the timeline is reset, the Neutral Ending is only a placeholder until the player inevitably resets…
- Alternatively, it could be that Frisk got transported to the Omega Flowey timeline and ends up trapped in that place where nothing but them and Flowey exist. They didn't die in the underground, they didn't make it through the barrier. They are just stuck in a world where nothing exists but them.
- This is supported by the final room of the Neutral run being a copy of the room at the beginning and end of the Ruins where you encounter Flowey. This isn't the room where the barrier is.
- Frisk seems to fuse with Chara, who has a bit of Asriel's soul in him. That's how they can leave the Underground.
- Just before the final boss of the neutral run, Flowey says that with seven human souls, he could become God. At the end of the No Mercy run, Asgore dies. Asgore had six human souls. Chara then appears, presumably in the vicinity of Asgore's death. Chara then destroys the world. If you start the game again, the world is gone, and the only way to get it back is to give Chara your soul. You're human. Chara already got six human souls from Asgore.
- Probably not, since it's stated that humans cannot absorb human souls.
- It is probably quite similar to how Flowey was able to absorb all of the monster souls in the True Pacifist boss battle. He could only do this because he didn't have a SOUL. Both Asriel and Chara's souls were destroyed upon their death, so a revived Chara is just as soulless as Flowey and thus able to absorb human souls like he wasn't human.
- But then again, as some of the posts above explain, there is a slight chance that the Fallen Child might actually not have been a real human.
- The Fallen Child didn't die for good as a human. They died as an ascended Monster. They could likely absorb any soul.
- There's also the possibility that enough murder intent makes you actually a monster as is implied in the Genocide route. Thus, the Child would also be able to absorb souls.
- Also, selling your soul to Chara after a Genocide run wouldn't make much sense if they couldn't absorb souls.
- Probably not, since it's stated that humans cannot absorb human souls.
- In the True Pacifist finale, Flowey comes out of nowhere and wraps all of Frisk's friends in a vine. Going along with a Fridge Brilliance further up the page, think about Sans and how low his HP is. If Flowey had sucker punched them all just a little harder, he could've killed Sans on the spot.
- When you think about it, Flowey probably made a point not to hit very hard. At this point, he wants to absorb their souls to add to the human souls he'd just taken. Most monsters' souls disappear the moment they die. So if he wants to absorb their souls, he needs to make sure he doesn't kill them too early.
- Given the timing of Toriel showing up in the pacifist ending, it's extremely likely that in the neutral ending, she arrives just too late to stop you from leaving. Given that she would be coming back to keep you from killing Asgore, it adds an air of tragedy to a mostly bittersweet ending, as she probably believes she failed to keep you from taking a life (Flowey finishes him off, or he does it himself, but in most endings they believe you directly finished him), and also lost Asgore, who, as much as she admits she dislikes, doesn't think he deserves to die for what he's done.
- It might have been Alphys that begged her to stop the fight after you reassure/befriend her.
- If you fight Toriel and kill her (either on purpose or by accident) and then reload/reset to spare her life, she'll remark that you look as if you've seen a ghost, and if you try and talk to her, you'll get "You thought about telling Toriel that you saw her die." and won't go through with it. For you, the player, it might not look like much, but from the character's perspective, they either a) just killed someone who they were desperately trying to spare, and you have to look them in the eye, trying to find a way out while afraid you might kill her again, or b) you were so shaken by her death that you're faced with the perspective of having to kill her again if you don't find a way to spare her.
- Even worse in the latter case, as the player character could end up in a loop where they would keep killing her and going back to try and save her, but the only alternatives are getting killed or accepting that you killed Toriel, thus taking the first step towards turning into a monster.
- There's a third option, though less horrific. If you forget to save after fighting her (or your computer crashes before you have a chance to do so), you go through the Ruins exit… and walk into someone who you know IS SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD, and looks like a ghost.
- This has to do with the music 'But Nobody Came'. Like many things related to Flowey, specifically the Genocide/No Mercy route, it's a remix of his theme. However, unlike the other themes, which have a relatively high pitch and happy tone to it, this song is simply the first 'stanza' for the song. Repeating, over and over, unending and slowly reoccurring. It isn't just a creepy BGM to point out what you've caused — it's a hint to tell you that your actions in this run aren't redeemable. It's warning you about Chara's nature, in a way, by telling you, "You can't truly reset if you finish this run" because you'll be stuck in a loop with Chara owning your SOUL. If you don't believe me, listen for yourself.
- If you try to play the game again after completing the No Mercy route. Chara has some choice words for you, wondering if you think you're above consequences. The thing is, they're more right than they know. No matter what you named them, Chara is not you. They're still a video game character, bound just like all the other NPCs within the rules of the game. You, on the other hand, are a real person, and can delete your save files from the outside, erasing all knowledge of the atrocities you committed, as if you had never played,]] and not even Chara will know any better.
- It's been pointed out that Asgore and Flowey are the only characters who greet people with "howdy", hinting at their connection. There is one exception to that: when Papyrus calls the player after their date with Alphys, he starts the call with "howdy", suggesting that Flowey prompted the call and/or is feeding him lines to pave every step of the way to the trap he springs just before the True Pacifist boss fight.
- Flowey told Papyrus to tell Undyne to write the letter to Alphys, so this is pretty much a given.
- The extent to which Flowey probably had Papyrus get involved in Alphys's date mini-plot makes the latter's appearance in goofy jogging attire toward the end of the actual date… well, a lot less goofy, in retrospect — it's not unlikely he was there in general because Flowey wanted him there, and had him see to/look into a way Undyne would leave him alone with Alphys so he could ask her to head back to the lab.
- When he calls to inform the player about where to go, his Bad Liar traits make the call quite suspicious. Especially when he begins sweating while repeating again and again that he only has "good feelings about this". What did Flowey tell him that made him this extremely nervous to send Frisk to the Lab, considering he doesn't actually know what is inside?
- Flowey told Papyrus to tell Undyne to write the letter to Alphys, so this is pretty much a given.
Part 2
- Everything about W.D. Gaster.
- His life has pretty much ended, and he's aware that the world just goes on without him as if he'd never been in it.
- The simple notion that there's something in the world of Undertale that can scatter you all over reality, erasing nearly every trace of your existence.
- His (unused) battle data. Aside from all being variations of the Number of the Beast, Gaster's stats are monstrous: 666,666 HP, 6,666 ATK, and 6,666 DEF. He would simply eclipse every enemy in the Underground combined if he were still around. Keep in mind that Photoshop Flowey has only 6000 HP.
- Those numbers in particular: Remember that in this game, monsters aren't inherently evil, and most of them wouldn't hurt a fly if they felt they had a choice. That Gaster has the Number of the Beast for his stats is less likely to be a statement of being evil, and more of one that he's a transgressor. To go along with his being Dummied Out, it suggests that he tried to break his programming, and was punished for it.
- Interesting story, the first publicly available home computer, the Apple I, sold for $666.66 when it was first released. The developer, Steve Wozniak, had no idea about the number's connotations; he just liked repeating digits. Perhaps the use of these numbers (especially in regard to a scientist who can only be found by examining the game's code, and was most likely well-acquainted with Asgore) was meant as a Shout-Out to this piece of computing history, while further playing on the game's Satanic Faux Symbolism.
- There is also the implication in the lab that he also experimented on live creatures. While he didn't fight them in the typical meaning of the word, he might have caused a lot of death, thus raising his LVL and LOVE.
- If you do decide to permanently quit the game from being unable to beat Sans, then it results in what may be the ultimate Pyrrhic Victory. Sans spends his boss fight trying to convince you to give up and quit. If you do, then he's also ensured that the timeline won't reset. So all the monsters you killed will stay dead. Imagine Sans waiting there in the judgement hall for lord knows how long before he realizes that he's won, but he's also ensured that he'll never see his friends and family again.
- On the other hand, there's nothing stopping Flowey from resetting the game after this… If he can hijack the player's ability to SAVE during the Neutral boss fight, then, if the player leaves the game altogether, Flowey could easily get his ability to Save/Reload back. This looks like a good thing at first… Until you realize that this is still Flowey we're talking about, and he's willing to do No Mercy runs himself. Regardless of what happens, Sans is either stuck with all his friends dead, or he's still going to be trapped in the "Groundhog Day" Loop.
- Then again, Flowey also got frightened into trying to join forces with Asgore at this point, so he might be a bit more well-behaved. For a while, at least.
- On the other hand, there's nothing stopping Flowey from resetting the game after this… If he can hijack the player's ability to SAVE during the Neutral boss fight, then, if the player leaves the game altogether, Flowey could easily get his ability to Save/Reload back. This looks like a good thing at first… Until you realize that this is still Flowey we're talking about, and he's willing to do No Mercy runs himself. Regardless of what happens, Sans is either stuck with all his friends dead, or he's still going to be trapped in the "Groundhog Day" Loop.
- Flowey nearly kills you at the beginning of the game. Yeah, yeah, bad enough, but then, realize this means he nearly got his hands (leaves? roots?) on your SOUL. Recall that a monster with a human soul is insanely powerful, and this particular monster already has some experience with wielding that kind of power. There's no reason he couldn't have taken your SOUL, overpowered Asgore, and become his True Final Boss form without any humans conveniently nearby to oppose him. In other words, it's very, very lucky Toriel intervened when she did.
- Except, if you pay close attention, you'll see that Flowey's "deadly" attack actually heals the player, and this is before Toriel shows up. This seems to indicate that the player character was not in any real, mortal danger — and this is ignoring the fact that even if the player did die, they would just get reset. Where they would be reset to is quite a good question, however, as at this point they haven't been to any Save Points yet. Maybe it just resets to the flower patch the game starts on, or maybe it resets to somewhere outside the Barrier, before the player character fell down. There's no definite answer here, but Flowey was almost certainly not in the position to take their soul and wreak havoc on the Underground.
- Just before that, though, Flowey asks "why would ANYBODY pass up an opportunity like this?", which would imply this to be his plan, as of that moment. Furthermore, he'd be familiar with the mechanics of determination, since he's used it quite a bit before the player's arrival… if he thinks that plan would work, it's likely he's right. After all, a defenseless human child who gets unavoidably murdered by the first, most innocent-looking thing in the underground might end up surrendering not too long after their arrival in the underground. Note that fighting isn't even an option here, and Flowey's on the one path out of the first part of the Ruins. There's literally no way the player can avoid him, and removing him from their path isn't an option, either. Even if the player resets back to the flower patch, they would still inevitably encounter Flowey and be hit with another barrage of "friendliness pellets". Toriel's intervention is pretty much the only thing that prevents the player character's repeated death and eventual loss of determination. As for the healing… given Toriel's motherly personality, it's possible she has healing magic in her repertoire, and of course her first priority would be saving the child's life and preventing the fatal attack from landing (at the very least, it makes more sense than an attack Flowey meant to be fatal restoring the health bar to full). In a way, the ability to invoke Save Scumming in-universe just makes Flowey's Near-Villain Victory that much worse, since Frisk's options are to either let him obtain the soul or be stuck in a "Groundhog Day" Loop.
- Except, if you pay close attention
- Sans knows SOMEONE, or SOMETHING, has been meddling with the timeline extensively, and for quite some time, and it is never confirmed one way or another that he knew that Flowey and not the PLAYER was the one doing it before Frisk fell into the Underground, and that one of the possible causes for Dr. Gaster's disappearance/splintering was Flowey's meddling with the timeline.....
- Flowey gets a Fridge Horror in-universe! At the end of the Genocide run, he cheerfully delights in how perfect his relationship with Chara will be, because of how well they understand each other as complete psychopaths with incredible power, until he mentions that they'll be so perfect together that they each wouldn't hesitate to kill the other if he should get in their way... and then he becomes terrified. At first, it seems obvious that Flowey realizes that Chara will completely outmatch him once the souls are put into play, but in the True Pacifist run, Asriel confesses that when he absorbed Chara's soul, Chara was in control and brought their own corpse to the surface in order to provoke the humans, but Asriel resisted in order to spare them and return home. Flowey remembered that he had already sabotaged Chara's plans ages ago, and Chara would absolutely still hold a grudge over it because if Asriel had done as planned, none of the events of Undertale would have ever happened and Chara would already have wiped humanity out. That's why he freaks out and why Chara gets the creepy look on their face: Chara never forgot.
- Why does Sans become delusional when you kill him? Because he is aware of the time resets and has subtle memory of them as well. He knows time might reset and he'll be back with his brother and in Grillby's soon, and he is also hitting the Despair Event Horizon as he dies while his burdens and self-confessed inevitable failure come to a head.
- Why is Chara able to absorb your soul after the world ends? Because they just murdered you. You still don't have a choice. They just want to play with the last human they will ever speak to before killing them.
- Let's take a moment to acknowledge that, for possibly longer than the Earth has been around, a small child has been caught in a time loop and forced to take the form of plant-genitalia. He has likely learned about this in one of the loops.
- When Sans unleashes his special attack (which turns out to be prolonging his turn to get you to quit), the only way to beat him is to drag the box you're in over to the 'FIGHT' option. The only hint you're given to do this? Any time you get too close to the lower left-hand corner, Sans' eye flashes blue, and you are thrown back to the center. His precaution is ultimately what causes his death.
- At the end of Genocide run, when you fight Asgore, the Mercy button is gone. In killing Sans, you have finally collected enough EXP to reach the highest LOVE. You have accomplished the ultimate goal of the Genocide route. You have distanced yourself completely. It's over. There's no point in a Mercy button anymore. You don't have any mercy, and you never will again.
- People's biggest complaint about the game seems to be that you can't save Asriel. By the look of Flowey/Asriel's save file in the neutral run, his 9999 LV means he's completed the No Mercy run around five hundred times. And as the player can find out, there's no coming back from a No Mercy run.
- Of course, that's assuming Flowey's LV was carried over from the resets.
- Seems like Toby had one final Deconstruction for us — the deconstruction of the New Game Plus. The game itself gives you a taste of it with the ability to reset, but presumably, with the whole idea of the resets being 100% completion and seeing how the characters react, you don't keep your LOVE — because that would ruin the whole point of 100% completion, how can you get it when everyone is already dead? Flowey, on the other hand, doesn't want to experience everything the story has to offer — he wants to become a God, and he is shown to be able to hack the game. So he goes as far as he can in the No Mercy run, saves his LOVE, resets, and does it all over again. No wonder you can't Mercy him.
- What exactly is Tem Armor made of? Some players believe it's made out of temmies. Some take it a step further and believe it's made out of living temmies. Let that sink in.
- Considering Tem Flakes are apparently shredded construction paper (and thus not actual Temmies), this seems unlikely. Plus, the player character is allergic to Tems, so this would mean that equipping the Tem Armor would hurt them. Though the fact that it's still not stated exactly where the Tem Armor comes from could still be some slight Fridge Horror.
- Although none of these theories would quite make sense since, y'know, monsters turn into dust when killed... They're more likely to be made out of cardboard, which is another popular fan interpretation, if anything.
- Just think about everything Frisk goes through in this game, from being basically kidnapped by Toriel and being told they can't leave [she had good intentions, but still] to being relentlessly hunted by the greatest warrior in the underground to being trapped in a laboratory with horrific creatures created from accidental morphing melted monsters together to potentially being possessed by a sociopathic murderer… And then keep in mind that they're JUST A CHILD.
- Adding to the above, the same thing happened to the previous five humans who fell after the Fallen did. Heck, you can find the Toy Knife in the Ruins, where Toriel is supposed to protect you. Frisk just happens to be the one that has a chance at survival because they have one trump card: you, the player, and the ability to reset. And if you decide not to give Frisk that chance by going for a genocide...
- In a True Pacifist Run, Asgore waits for you when you decide to backtrack, help Alphys and Undyne and explore the True Lab, without moving away from the barrier at all. Is he that much of a Death Seeker or does he feel that he can only commit to the deed by not even taking a tea break?
- In a Genocide run, you can keep taking pieces of the Snowman until he's reduced to a pile of snow, but he never becomes ash. Not even after you eat his remains.
- The dialogue on the game over screen indicates that Chara is still motivated by Asgore's words and, when you reach Asgore in a Genocide run, Chara/Frisk doesn't kill Asgore. Flowey does in an attempt to get on Chara's good side. Then Chara starts killing Flowey, but Flowey changes his face to its original form to guilt trip Chara, which works until the player pushes the button to give Chara one last push. Even then, it takes a few hits, as if Chara still doesn't want to kill him. If Flowey hadn't killed Asgore, maybe it all would have stopped there.
- Which would be Fridge Horror, though; after all, not only did Chara kill Toriel just fine, they also had tried to kill Asgore by poisoning him way back.
- Also, the player only hits the button once, while Chara cleaves up Flowey multiple times. It's possible Flowey could've lived if he hadn't killed Asgore, but it's also likely that whatever remaining affection Chara may have had for Asriel was lost when he killed Asgore for them. Not to mention Flowey's own speech on how being soulless means that Chara would likely kill him if he got in the way, and the real fridge horror here is that Chara was so far gone by then that they were willing to kill their adoptive brother. Brutally.
- The list Chara gives at the end of a No Mercy run includes not only LOVE and EXP, but also GOLD, ATK, and DEF as well. Why is this Fridge Horror? Because even on a True Pacifist run, the player probably does grind for money in Temmie Village at least to get the Temmie Armor, and if not, they still try to make use of their gold and pick up the equipment left behind if not for anything else, for defense purposes. This is another proof that Chara has some effect in all runs, not just No Mercy, and they are the narrator.
- Doubly appropriate if you let yourself get killed a couple times to make the Temmie Armor cheaper. Committing suicide for a massive power boost was Chara's plan, too.
- Everyone seems to warn you about not going further with the Genocide route. Sans is the last person to do this, after telling you about how the he is aware someone is messing with the timelines over and over, but it comes off as more of a threat after it's obvious he can't win. It is indeed too late to reset after this point. All this time you have had control, resetting after dying and doing as you wish. Sans was giving you your last chance to do a full reset and maybe make a more merciful run, but no. You pressed the issue and ended up in Chara's hands. They are resetting the world now and you can only reset because they allow it. Every playthrough after a full genocide is tainted by your actions and ends badly even if it's a full Pacifist route. Each one is reset only to end badly. Your own actions have corrupted Chara and you have damned yourself to the same fate that each and everyone else is in. A world of resets and you are more aware of this than everything else, even Flowey.
- After the Genocide run, whenever you complete the Pacifist run, you get the worst possible ending, with Chara taking Frisk's body over and presumably murdering everyone. Normally, if you re-launch the game after a Pacifist run, Flowey pops up and begs you not to reset the game and take away everyone's Golden Ending. I don't know if he does the same without a soul, but if he does, then he's pretty unaware of the bad ending, which is understandable, but terrible nonetheless. However, if he doesn't, then he clearly knows what happened and doesn't even bother talking to you.
- Imagine you're playing Undertale after a Genocide run. You now have 3 choices: Going Geno again, which just resets you to Status Quo, going Pacifist, which will unleash Chara on the world, or going Neutral. No matter how you look at it, even the worst neutral non-genocide run is now a preferable alternative to the Pacifist Run — the one thing that's supposed to save everyone.
- In Alphys's lab, the player can find a bundle of unread letters from various monsters. Once you find out what's in the True Lab, you realise just why Alphys didn't want to read those letters… they're pleas from various monsters to know what happened to their loved ones, who became fused into Amalgamates.
- It makes sense when you read the log in the True Lab saying how everybody was apparently mad at Alphys. Those aren't just requests to know what happened; Alphys had said she was going to tell everyone that their relatives were okay. Some of those are probably angry letters demanding that Alphys stop keeping their family members hidden away from them.
- If you stop and consider the state of the previous six souls. They were killed and their souls harvested to give someone the powers of a god with the openly expressed intent of destroying everyone they had ever known and loved. We don't know what level of awareness they had in their little glass prisons or how long they had been stuck there. And on top of everything else, it was clearly stated that they were experimented on and their determination taken from them and used by Alphys to create the Amalgamates when it had previously been explained that it was determination that let a human soul continue to exist after death. How are these souls still around or even sane at this point?
- If the faces on Omega Flowey's screens are the children, then the answer is: they aren't sane at all, anymore.
- They have to have at least some awareness left, since Frisk is able to call out to them, and they can rebel against Flowey, which also means they probably have at least a little sanity left. Though they're still stuck in an And I Must Scream situation until then, so it's not much better.
- Considering that Chara possibly possessed Frisk the entire time and the fact he died as both human and monster, perhaps Asriel's part of the soul allowed Frisk to escape.
- What happens when you think about a joke for too long: That Temmie that's allergic to itself?note That's actually a thing — they're called Autoimmune Disorders. We can only hope that that Temmie's skin is the only affected area…
- So. Say Asgore managed to collect all human SOULs and break the barrier. The intro states that the first human fell in the year 201X. Frisk fell much later. So if Asgore wanted to start a war again… The humans are most likely gonna wipe them out, due to technological superiority.
- Several of the Neutral endings themselves are massive cans of fridge horror, if you think about them. For starters, in the timeline where Papyrus becomes king, all of the human souls, similar to every other timeline, vanish. The monsters fall into depression, and Papyrus tries to keep them happy. It's likely that whenever the next human falls down, Papyrus is going to end up in the same scenario as Asgore was, being forced to take the human SOULs. Sans is busy running things for Papyrus, and being busier, so Papyrus is going to have no shoulders to cry on.
- Mettaton's endings speak for themselves, considering his methods of ruling. And, if he gets any human souls, he could just ditch the monsters, going to the surface to be an entertainer. This does mean, however, that Papyrus or Sans might be put in charge, but, well, see the above.
- Alternately, he does seem to regret some of the things he's done, considering his comments on Alphys in his endings. It's fully possible that Mettaton would abandon the Underground in a heartbeat if he got any human souls, partly due to his Glory Hound nature and partly out of a misguided attempt to be The Atoner (giving rule to someone else). And if Papyrus is still alive… well, see his ending, but worse, since he'd inherit all of Mettaton's problems.
- Queen Undyne, or Empress Undyne, declares war on humanity. And unlike Asgore, she's fully determined to see it through, minus the fact that monsters are weak to killing intent. If not for Frisk's ability to reset, she'd likely gain the seven souls, or, Flowey, still being alive, might kill her and become a fully powered Asriel, with no humans around to stop him, and allowing him to toy around with the surface. And the humans on the surface would have absolutely no idea what was coming, whether it be an army led by a HYPER-GOD Undyne, or The Absolute God of Hyper Death, who, unlike last time, is clearly not going to hold back.
- The worst part about a full-power Asriel getting to the surface is that yes, it'll probably end in tons of humans being slaughtered... but only until the aforementioned character realizes what he's done. It takes him a little while of having extreme emotions before he realizes things like remorse and sadness and grief are part of him again, but it only comes back as fast as it does because he's screaming at "Chara", the person he loved and grieved for until he literally died. That realization is going to take a lot longer to set in if he's murdering strangers, and for all his other powers, he might not actually have access to the Reset Button aspects of Determination anymore. If he realizes he's a murderer who doesn't get do-overs, that will get ugly very, very quickly.
- Alphys, if she ends up queen, due to a botched Genocide run, is likely going to commit suicide, considering how she's done so for much less in other timelines.
- What makes this horrifying is that the monsters would have a Hope Spot, since they managed to survive the Genocidal player character, only to have their queen kill herself, leaving them with nothing. It'd basically be an even more depressing version of the anarchy ending. One can only hope that Alphys manages to hang onto her newfound confidence, at least long enough to pick someone else to rule in her place.
- Toriel's going to have to deal with the fact that you killed her ex-husband, who, though he was not exactly good in her book, did not deserve to die, and she was too late to stop you. Or be exiled to the Ruins, if you killed more than just Asgore.
- And finally, Sans is going to be waiting for the next reset, no matter how good the neutral ending is. Even if you befriend everyone, and Alphys is working on a separate way to get the monsters out, Sans knows it won't last.
- Mettaton's endings speak for themselves, considering his methods of ruling. And, if he gets any human souls, he could just ditch the monsters, going to the surface to be an entertainer. This does mean, however, that Papyrus or Sans might be put in charge, but, well, see the above.
- So. The True Pacifist ending. The monsters have reached the surface, and now live together with the humans. The humans welcome the newcomers with open arms, and there are no significant hard feelings on either side — the two races live in peace. But not all humans are nice. Some humans are very, very cruel. So cruel that their main idea of "entertainment" is tormenting or flat-out torturing others. These people are usually kept in check by law enforcement, who uncover their transgressions and use the evidence they find to track them down. However, if somebody were to murder a monster, there's next-to no evidence of the crime. Unlike human bodies, monster bodies instantly crumble into dust upon death, rendering an autopsy impossible, and monsters don't bleed, either, meaning that pretty much the only thing at the crime scene is a pile of dust that may or may not be indistinguishable from any othernote , assuming that the killer doesn't just blow it away or suck it into a vacuum cleaner. Any serial killer who realizes just how easy it is to get away with murdering monsters is going to have a fucking field day, and human law enforcement won't even be capable of doing a damn thing about it. No wonder the Soulless Pacifist ending is so ominous…
- For that matter, the reverse scenario could be even worse. Humans slaying monsters would be terrible, but at least a human murderer wouldn't get a massive power boost from it. If a monster becomes obsessed with a certain goal, is a natural sadist, gets a lust for power, or simply decides that co-existence is overrated, there is very little to prevent them from becoming a god-like being. They would simply need to ambush and kill a single human, and that human's soul would turn them into a killing machine which would become ever more powerful with every victim it consumes, and will become potent enough to wipe out humanity after less than a dozen kills. It's also implied that ANY monster can absorb a human's soul, and since monsters are innately magic, it's impossible to disarm them. And now there are thousands (at least) of them on the surface, each one a potential Person of Mass Destruction. Maybe the ancient humans had the right idea in sealing the monsters away...
- At a glance, this almost looks like a plot-destroying plot hole that turns the Pacifist ending into a severe Esoteric Happy Ending, were it not for one thing: we do see in the game that souls remain self-aware after death, and are given partial control over the body they possess even after absorption. The scenario you describe nearly happened when Asriel went to the surface, but didn't because of Asriel Fighting from the Inside. Perhaps a homicidal monster could successfully wrestle into submission the soul of a single human, but after two or three they'd be outnumbered, and the odds of them making it to seven are virtually impossible. In addition, we know from the final battle of the Pacifist run that emotions are also shared when a body possesses multiple souls, which could very easily drive said monster into My God, What Have I Done? and compel them to fix their mistake. The only possible way around this that I can think of would be if a monster were to make an agreement with seven equally homicidal humans (like, say, a terrorist organization) and have all seven of them commit suicide and be absorbed by the monster... looks like laws regarding human/monster relations are going to have to be written very, very carefully.
- Another question one must ask is "How much determination can a monster's body handle?" according to Alphys' studies, not a lot. A mere extraction was enough for their corpses to melt away forming the amalgamates, which is likely to happen to the hypothetical monster serial killer. Not counting Asriel, who never had the will to fight in the first place, the only monster we see with determination matching the scenario of a human harvester is Undyne. Her normal form melted away the instant she took a fatal blow while her Undying form had almost as much determination as a human. Undyne said that her body was about to break anytime and that too melted once it was destabilized enough. Even Asgore's plan fails to account for this problem.
- You have to consider that Alphys was injecting the Determination into the monsters' bodies, whereas if a monster absorbed those human souls, they might just fuse with the monster's soul, so their body might never have to cope with the extra Determination from their souls. Supporting this is what happened with Asriel — will to fight doesn't matter, or at least it didn't there, he still had the Determination of six human souls inside of him and he was perfectly fine throughout the battle.
- However, this is seemingly contradicted by the Photoshop Flowey fight, where the souls start rebelling after he tries to abuse save states long enough. This would imply that under certain circumstances, there can be "too many" souls in a body, and it would likely come down to how long a battle with them would last that determines how long they'd be able to last.
- It might not seem so at first, but recall the moment you give Temmie money to go to colleg. She leaves her face behind while the rest of her body heads off and returns shortly thereafter, having learned something new. While this is Played for Laughs on your end, just imagine this from the perspective of whoever she goes to visit. You'd be minding your own business when suddenly some faceless monster jumps out at you with a nightmarish screech (for example, hOi!!!) coming from God knows where. You'd throw whatever the nearest object was at it, and if it happened to be a vendor's licence for a suit of armour...
- Temmie, with being a monster, probably didn't exactly scare whoever was at "colleg". What must be horrifying, though, is this: a child has finally gathered loads of money (or died a dozen times for price reduction), gives it to Temmie...and then is stuck for who knows how long with just their face staring while the body gets up and leaves.
- In the events leading to the True Pacifist ending, Toriel berates Asgore's inaction, pointing out that he could have used a single SOUL to cross the Barrier and get six more, rather than waiting for children to fall into the Underground. In the context of that timeline, yes, that seems plausible. However, you, the player, just beat Omega Flowey in order to get to that timeline, and you know what it was that broke his power in the end. The abused SOULs rebelled against him. If Asgore had tried to use a SOUL, who's to say the same thing wouldn't have happened to him?
- We know from Asriel-Chara that they dueled for control, with one only barely overriding the other. We also know from Omega Flowey that one monster and six human souls can't really harmonize, but then again, Flowey is a soulless determined flower, not an actual monster. Asgore, as a boss monster, might be able to control the human souls — partly. Best case, they somehow work together, worst case, he ends up like Lemon Bread.
- More Fridge Tear Jerker, but one Youtube commenter pointed out something about how Papyrus has no attacks on a Genocide run.Funny thing about this-
People say Papyrus doesn't attack you in the genocide route. But that's not true. He does have an attack-one you won't see until the Sans fight much later.
Papyrus' death is depressing. Extremely depressing - enough for some people to quit the game.
But his death-it makes you sad.
A euphemism for sad is blue.
When you kill papyrus, you become blue.
You're blue now.
That's his attack. - Alphys kills herself in No Mercy:
- It's made pretty clear that if you defeat Undyne and get to Hotland, Alphys is supposed to be the one to evacuate everyone to safety and notify Asgore. She's supposed to be the alarm system. But the alarm never goes off. Alphys told Mettaton she was going to go evacuate everyone to safety, but when you actually explore the rest of Hotland and the Core, everyone is still there. And when you get to Asgore, you catch him completely by surprise. He doesn't even know what's been going on. What gives? Seems like a plot hole. But if you consider all the hints dropped in Neutral and Pacifist, maybe it's not.
- ...Except that several monsters (namely Muffet, and later Bratty and Catty) mention that Alphys did start evacuation — she just wasn't able to take everyone to safety in time (by the way, we only kill around 200 monsters on Genocide — and yet Mettaton's Pacifist boss fight strongly implies that there are at the very least 20000 monsters in the whole Underground). Asgore, meanwhile, was prepared to fight… a human. And by the time they met him, Frisk no longer looks like a human. And also, the worst neutral ending (if we stop Genocide at last moment possible by killing all but one monsters in Core and then killing MTT) has Alphys become queen — so she clearly didn't kill herself.
- It's made pretty clear that if you defeat Undyne and get to Hotland, Alphys is supposed to be the one to evacuate everyone to safety and notify Asgore. She's supposed to be the alarm system. But the alarm never goes off. Alphys told Mettaton she was going to go evacuate everyone to safety, but when you actually explore the rest of Hotland and the Core, everyone is still there. And when you get to Asgore, you catch him completely by surprise. He doesn't even know what's been going on. What gives? Seems like a plot hole. But if you consider all the hints dropped in Neutral and Pacifist, maybe it's not.
- After taking Frisk's soul at the end of Genocide Route, Chara does a reset. Not just any reset, but True Reset (as evidenced by Flowey not remembering anything rather than only remembering the events before his death, which is what happens if we kill him on Neutral Route). It's never outright stated, but very strongly implied that Frisk doesn't remember True Resets despite remembering normal ones. As if having their soul and body stolen and then being Forced to Watch as their friends die at their hand wasn't bad enough, they have their soul and body stolen and then are forced to watch as their friends die at their hand while having no idea what they did to deserve this. YMMV about if this makes their punishment more or less severe.
- An alternative reading of No Mercy, one more sympathetic to the First Fallen, is equally horrific: Chara, resurrected but powerless and drifting along behind the Eighth Human, has been helplessly watching as Frisk, under your control, murders the beloved subjects Chara themself was willing to die for — beginning with the mother Chara was probably closest to out of any monster except Asriel, given their shared speech patterns. Watching someone systematically hunt down and butcher, not just your relatives, but your entire adoptive nation as a member of the royal family, would just about destroy anyone, especially someone we already know was willing to trade their life for monsters' well-being. Chara's speech at the end of Genocide is intended to hammer home the player's attitude of grinding for stats in a detached manner, but it takes on a whole extra dimension of horror in this interpretation: the First Fallen is not literally the player, but might have started believing they are, in a desperate attempt to retain some illusion of control in the face of your unremitting cruelty. This is just one of the aspects of Genocide that keeps this troper up nights.
- Two minor bits about the Mad Dummy:
- If the player is doing a No Mercy route, they'll be so angry that you killed their cousin that they will fuse permanently with the dummy they are possessing and become fully corporeal. They are happy about this, but presumably there are many ghosts who wouldn't be happy about being trapped forever in an object they possessed just because they felt a momentary strong emotion.
- As a direct result of the above, they are no longer a ghost, and can be fought. Napstablook said earlier that one can't truly kill a ghost. If the Mad Dummy had hated you just a little less, you wouldn't have been able to kill them, and would have been forced to end the No Mercy run.
- At the end of a post-Genocide True Pacifist run, Chara has everything they could want. They are out of the barrier at last, in full control of Frisk's body and SOUL, in the perfect position to slaughter all of the monsters without any of them knowing it's coming, and can finally go out and ravage the world as they please. However, Chara will still let you Reset the game and makes no attempt to stop you despite the fact that they have no reason to allow it and every reason to want to prevent it. This is because they can't stop you. Even before we get into save file manipulation, you can reset everything, True Pacifist, Pacifist, Genocide whenever you want to and Chara can't do a thing about it. Ultimately, for all their fourth wall breaking, Chara is just another NPC like the rest, completely a slave to the whims of the player.
- The track "Respite" at the end of the Pacifist Run seems like a sweet, calming, happy song at first; however, the word "respite" means "a short period of rest or relief from something difficult or unpleasant". So why would the end of an era of suffering for monsters be just a brief moment before utter despair? Because Toby knows that you are going to go reset the game and slaughter everyone. The actual track even has static crackling in the background, reminding the player that this is all just a fabrication to them, just a fleeting moment of joy and satisfaction before they destroy everything. No matter what happens, the fate of these characters will always be in the hands of the player, and most of them don't even realize it.
- If you run from Undyne, she eventually collapses in Hotland due to the hot temperature heating up her armor and overheating her. If you leave Undyne rather than sparing her by giving her water from the tank just a few feet away, she dies of heat exhaustion. Assuming you spared Papyrus earlier, Sans will be sleeping at his sentry station just a short distance away from where this happens, and you even run right past him while being chased by Undyne. Imagine his reaction when he wakes up and sees that Undyne died almost right in front of him while he was sleeping, with the means to save her being in plain view.
- In the True Pacifist Route, everyone except Papyrus is covered in two vines: Papyrus is covered in four. Undyne also mentions that Papyrus is "pretty freakin' tough", Papyrus implies on an aborted Genocide Route that he has Gaster Blasters, and if you keep doing the Neutral Route, Flowey mentions that it took him a while to get bored of Papyrus. Putting all that together, it's implied that Flowey fucked up enough to make Papyrus go all-out, and he was so brutal that Flowey had to be careful with Papyrus and make sure he doesn't do that again.
- It was pointed out above that Sans winks with his right eye on a genocide run, and with his left eye on any other run, because he channels his power through his left eye and isn't letting his guard down. Except, when the camera zooms in on him during the rimshot following his first pun, he's winking with his right eye. This happens even if it's the first run you ever do and have been a pacifist up to that point. And since he turns to face the camera for this, it seems that he's directing a subtle warning at the player to not betray him.
- If you kill Toriel, at one point in Waterfall, Flowey will leave a taunting message in Toriel's voice, where she is in a dark void and calling for help. While this may be just a taunt, remember that in the timeline, Asriel has been dead for years, if not decades or a whole century. He might perfectly know just how the afterlife looks like.
- Flowey makes clear that he's been going back in time countless times… yet suddenly, Frisk falls down out of nowhere, with no warning or that ever happening in previous timelines. It's highly likely that while the Underground is being reset, the surface is not. So, if that's the case, God knows just what year it is on the surface, and how fucked Asgore would be if his plan would ever succeed.
- The whole idea mentioned at the end. Asgore finally claims the final human soul, after countless years, and it finally seems like the monsters will be set free… but then they are absolutely slaughtered by all the powerful weapons humanity has. Asgore might succeed in committing genocide, or at least killing the majority of humankind, given that he would be a god, but who knows how big will be the casualties when it comes to the rest of the monsters, assuming any of them would survive. Asgore should have just stayed underground.
- It's emphasized that the player's choices can ruin Frisk's life, overriding whatever desires they have — they're not truly a Featureless Protagonist, and treating them that way is genuinely megalomaniac behavior. Now, consider the Pacifist Route. The player gets a final choice — stay with Toriel, or move on to other places? Depending on Frisk's circumstances, either choice could be very bad for them. Maybe Frisk has a biological family somewhere and doesn't really want to stay with Toriel. Maybe their family would even come looking, which could end very badly for Toriel. On the other hand, if Frisk doesn't have any family, the second route could be condemning them to homelessness. They have no power; the player can ruin their life with a single button press even in the best ending. The worst part is, the player doesn't even get to know which option is better.
- It's entirely possible that Frisk climbed the mountain due to suicidal intent. Asriel describes that Chara fell for "not a very happy reason", and it's well known that those who climb the mountain never return. Hence, it's entirely possible that Frisk was the most determined person in the world because they wanted to die so badly. However, due to their intense determination, they literally CAN'T die, as they'll keep respawning, due to determination seemingly allowing access to the in-universe game mechanics, resetting being one of them. Which begs the question, exactly what is it that's making them suffer so much?
