History Main / BlackAndGrayMorality

*** An, at worst, monstrously evil [[CorruptCorporateExecutive businessman]] with an, at-best, skewed moral compass (Mr. Burns)

** On on hand, you have:

->'''Megan''': Wait! You're my hero!
->'''Wade''': No, no, no, no, no. That I ain't.
->'''Wade (narrating)''': Nope, never will be. I'm just a bad guy who gets paid to fuck up worse guys.
-->-- ''Film/{{Deadpool|2016}}''

** ''Comicbook/NemesisTheWarlock'' verges on EvilVersusEvil. BigBad Torquemada, leader of the human race (in the ''Nemesis'' universe, something like a cross between the heretic-burning medieval Catholic church made even worse and the Nazis - basically the [[TabletopGame/Warhammer40000 Imperium of Man]]), is a psychotic genocidal religious fascist god-dictator pledged to exterminate all non-human life -- but Nemesis himself, who's ''essentially Satan'', has done things like openly lust for genocide right back at humanity and, at his worst, [[WouldHurtAChild intentionally kill a school bus full of children]]. Afterwards, he doesn't even seem to understand why it was a bad thing to do. Meanwhile, Nemesis' uncle Baal has a hobby of vivisecting humans and performing Mengele-ish experiments on them and his son Thoth hates and wants to destroy everything, including his father. Nemesis' allies, the ComicBook/ABCWarriors, are also extremely morally shady, given they've conducted massacres and frequently display genocidal urges towards humanity as well.

* ''ComicBook/ThreeHundred'' has the UnreliableNarrator describing the Spartans as "the ultimate good guys"... who are just as [[AxeCrazy insane]] and [[BloodKnight bloodthirsty]] as their Persian enemies, who are only worse for being a gigantic horde bent on destroying and enslaving everyone on their path.
** The comic starts out mostly like this: The Spartans are ruthless and have moments of cruelty, but treat each other with respect and are steadfast in the defense of their beloved homeland. Their biggest sin is killing envoys (which actually happened). Xerxes is unquestionably a sinister ruler, and although the Persian side isn't really shown to be evil, they are absolutely merciless in their conquest. By the end, the Spartan side is shown in a considerably better light, while the Persians have been reduced to faceless cannon fodder. The movie is much closer to BlackAndWhiteMorality.
* Generally a SignatureStyle of Creator/FrankMiller. All his heroes are sociopaths to some degree (or if you're lucky, just fascists), but the villains they face are even worse. His ''ComicBook/AllStarBatmanAndRobinTheBoyWonder'' series took this to such an extreme that [[IndecisiveParody whether or not it is parody is seriously debated]].

* Creator/GarthEnnis' bad guys are usually the epitome of pure psychotic evil, but morally speaking his good guys often aren't anything to write home about either, as they generally tend to be a bunch of murderous sociopaths themselves. His intense dislike of and tendency to savagely parody or mock [[TheCape any generally 'noble' or 'heroic' superhero or otherwise heroic character]] (although he does make some exceptions) doesn't help matters much.
** For example, in ''ComicBook/BackToBrooklyn'', [[AntiHero Bob]]'s a mobster, the cops use racial slurs, but the villains are ''really'' bad.
** Unless he's writing ComicBook/{{Superman}}.
** In fact, most modern comic writers fall into this category. Creator/WarrenEllis, Creator/GrantMorrison, and Creator/AlanMoore (just to name a few) often have morally ambiguous protagonists.

* ''ComicBook/{{Countdown}} Presents: Lord Havok and the Extremists'' was a clear example of this. The VillainProtagonist Lord Havok and his teammates are all portrayed as hellbent on taking over their planet, but they're each given sympathetic backgrounds and it's implied that life under their rule may be less dangerous in stark contrast to the way their world is when the story begins. In contrast, the so-called heroes of Angor (what America is referred to as) are all extremely unsympathetic and amoral, save for Blue Jay, who is the TokenGoodTeammate of the Meta Militia. Americommando is by far the worst, a boozing, womanizing drug addict who makes a deal with Monarch to get at the Extremists by allowing Monarch to destroy the home bases of the individual members of the Extremists, effectively murdering hundreds of innocent people.

* ''Comicbook/{{Lucifer}}'' is like this, but oddly, not ''ComicBook/TheSandman1989'', which is more GreyAndGrayMorality. The [[VillainProtagonist main character]] is, ya know, ''{{Satan}}'', who is caught between TheLegionsOfHell and the angels of heaven, who soon turn out not to be very nice either.
* The conflict in ''[[ComicBook/TheMultiversity Mastermen #1]]'' ends up being this, concerning the New Reichsmen and the Freedom Fighters.
** With the exception of Overman, none of the New Reichsmen had anything to do with Hitler's original plans and thus aren't concerned with what happened during World War II. But it's blatantly clear that they will still uphold the way of life Hitler established, feel absolutely no shame or guilt about how their paradise was built on the deaths of billions, and hold "under people" in contempt. Overman, for his part, feels incredible guilt and shame for what happened, but feels that he has no way to make it right after going so far. [[spoiler: He actually betrays the New Reichsmen by lying about the Human Bomb's ability to generate explosions while held captive in the Eagle's Nest.]]
** The Freedom Fighters do commit terrorist acts and [[spoiler: have help from Doktor Sivana in terms of technology leading up to the total destruction of Metropolis as the beginning]], but because they want Overman and the system he helped put into power to answer for the unspeakable atrocities and genocide that made it possible. There's also the fact that each of the Freedom Fighters represents minorities that the Nazi Party is still persecuting and trying to destroy.

* ''ComicBook/ThePunisher'' (especially ''ComicBook/ThePunisherMAX'', which was mostly written by the aforementioned Creator/GarthEnnis): Frank Castle is a sociopathic, cruel, KnightTemplar, BloodKnight, mass-murdering VigilanteMan, but is constantly pitted against the worst sorts of people -- {{Serial Killer}}s, {{Serial Rapist}}s, WesternTerrorists, TheMafia, HumanTraffickers and many, many other types among them. Most Punisher villains neglect fancy costumes or entertaining gimmicks and don't seem to even have any character traits besides malice, greed, sadism, and selfishness, justifying his PayEvilUntoEvil approach to the Negative Zone and beyond. Garth Ennis writes the character as 100% aware of this, often repeatedly stating that his only reason to continue living is to punish those worse than himself.
* The ''ComicBook/SecretSix'' are a group of [[AntiVillain Anti-Villains]] that have a tendency to fight other, more evil supervillains. Interestingly, their stories tend to more [[BlackComedy lighthearted]] than most superhero stories set in the DC Universe.

* ''Franchise/MarvelUniverse'': The villains tend to be straight up bad guys most of the time while the heroes genuinely heroic and noble tend to have infighting, personal problems and personal issues that gets in their way half of the time. Some of them tend to have [[HeroWithBadPublicity bad publicity]] such as ComicBook/SpiderMan and the ComicBook/XMen.
* ''ComicBook/UltimateMarvel'' ''runs'' on this trope.
* In ''Comicbook/VForVendetta'', the titular V is an [[UsefulNotes/{{Anarchism}} anarchist]] UnscrupulousHero fighting to bring down a fascist British government. While some individuals within that government are given depth and pathos, the ruling party's explicit devotion to [[ThoseWackyNazis Nazism]] and their running of death camps puts them firmly in the Black.
* In ''ComicBook/TheDepartmentOfTruth'', the Department's job is the make sure that Conspiracy Theories remain as dangerous ideas rather than dangerous reality, but they achieve this through gaslighting, assassination (even with bystanders perfectly willing to cooperate) and carefully selecting what should and should not be "normal", an agent of Black Hat trying to indoctrinate Cole by pointing out how they are trying to control the world by controlling the "truth". However, the alternative is to let the public's imagination run wild, the potential changes to reality resulting in monsters, {{Nebulous Evil Organisation}}s of every ideology and temperament running the world, astrological anomalies and other potential world-ending scenarios.

** In fact, most modern comic writers fall into this category. Creator/WarrenEllis, Creator/GrantMorrison, and Creator/AlanMoore (just to name a few) often have morally ambigious protagonists.

** Later in ''WebVideo/SuburbanKnights'', [[Website/ThatGuyWithTheGlasses the heroes]], still deep in the gray morality, face gray villains (a WellIntentionedExtremist and his friends [[PunchClockVillain who just wanted to help him]] on his mission) and the EvilLuddite the gray villains are trying to stop.

* ''Fanfic/AYoungGirlsGuerillaWar'': The Japanese resistance groups fight to free their country from foreign occupation but are far from upstanding and often fight dirty to achieve their aims, harboring many who are perfectly happy to target civilians to make a point. The Britannians meanwhile view the “Elevens” as second-class citizens and conduct cultural genocide to Honorary Britannian ethnic groups and are more than willing to commit large-scale massacres and humanitarian crises to pacify unruly regions.

* ''WesternAnimation/TheSimpsons''. Probably the best television example ever, animated or otherwise.

*** A monstrously evil [[CorruptCorporateExecutive businessman]] (Mr. Burns)

*** Amoral, corrupt scumbags (Mayor Quimby, Chief Wiggum, Lionel Hutz)

*** A father who is [[TooDumbToLive so stupid he can easily endanger someone's life]] (Homer)

*** Benign nice guys too weak, gullible, restrained, and/or petty to ever do any lasting good (Ned, Principal Skinner, Milhouse, Lou)

Obviously, the heroes of such settings tend to be {{antihero}}es. In such a world, any characters who appear to be good in any way will eventually be revealed as a KnightTemplar in disguise, a DarkMessiah inches from the edge, or a deeply flawed AntiHero. And if there ''are'' any [[WideEyedIdealist genuinely good]] characters on the show, they'll either [[FaceHeelTurn 'come around' to]] TheDarkSide, [[TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth die horribly]], remain a figure of [[ButtMonkey perpetual mockery]] or, if ''very'' lucky, [[KnightInSourArmor grow a protective shell of cynicism]].

If there are 'true' heroes around along with the 'kinda bad' and 'very bad' characters described above, it's TheGoodTheBadAndTheEvil. Coming from the opposite side is ALighterShadeOfBlack, where an EvilVersusEvil conflict is left with one mildly sympathetic side by not making them as unrelentingly evil as their opponents, while both are still plain evil.

* ''WesternAnimation/GravityFalls'' has many extremely shady characters as heroes, the biggest example being the unabashed petty criminal Grunkle Stan. However, their enemy is [[spoiler: quite literally a demon.]]
* ''WesternAnimation/InvaderZim''. ZIM is a completely evil alien invader with plans to conquer Earth and exterminate humanity (even if he is ridiculously bad at it) and is no less callous and selfish when dealing with his own kind either, to the extent that his people sent him to invade Earth just to get him out of the way. Dib is trying to save the world but is also needlessly antagonistic and mostly seems to want to save the world just so he can get respect as a great hero. Dib also looks down on other people, but given how stupid average people in the series are, that may be justified.
* ''WesternAnimation/SheRaAndThePrincessesOfPower'': How the conflict between Horde Prime and [[spoiler:the First Ones]] is ultimately presented. Horde Prime is pure evil, but it's revealed his opponents did some pretty morally ambiguous things themselves to counter his conquest. That Glimmer nearly walked down the same path to save her friends and home lets you know just how desperate their situation may have gotten.

* ''ComicBook/{{Batman}}'': Some stories have Batman in this position compared to the rest of the heroes. While most of the heroes tend to be more straight up heroic and try not to commit morally questionable acts unless they have to, Batman has no problems doing that and while he is better than most of his rogues gallery, tends to have problems such as trusting issues, being too harsh and using brutal methods to get what he needs to stop them while keeping to his no-killing rule most of the time.

* ''Podcast/WelcomeToNightVale'': Night Vale is filled with unambiguously evil tyrants and {{Eldritch Abomination}}s, but even the nicest people there tend to have [[ConditionedToAcceptHorror very skewed perceptions of what is "good" from having spent so long in a Lovecraftian dystopia]]. Cecil Palmer, the main character and nice person, is generally benevolent by Night Vale standards, yet reacts with indifference to things like his interns getting killed, deliberately started a lynch mob to punish Telly the barber for [[DisproportionateRetribution cutting off his boyfriend's beautiful hair]], and [[spoiler:routinely berates Steve Carlsberg because he tells his daughter truths about Night Vale that she's not legally supposed to know.]]

It's simple: leave the job half-done. Only the white gets removed, leaving behind a CrapsackWorld populated by people who each have their own forms of [[CharacterFlawIndex imperfection]]. Without the option of becoming the [[IncorruptiblePurePureness saint]] the world needs, newcomers of this world are stuck between the choice of supervillainy and faulty heroism. This is the essence of ''Black and Gray Morality'', where the morals of characters can range from pure evil to somewhat good.

Obviously, the heroes of such settings tend to be {{antihero}}es. In such a world, any characters who appear to be good in any way will eventually be revealed as a KnightTemplar in disguise, a DarkMessiah inches from the edge, or a deeply flawed AntiHero. And if there ''are'' any [[WideEyedIdealist genuinely good]] characters on the show, they'll either 'come around' to TheDarkSide, [[TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth die horribly]], remain a figure of [[ButtMonkey perpetual mockery]] or, if ''very'' lucky, [[KnightInSourArmor grow a protective shell of cynicism]].

*** However, they're ''much'' more lax about those rules, and get much darker, if things get personal. And as Loki spells out very politely in the sequel, those rules only apply while they're 'on-duty'. When they're ''off'', so is the MoralityChain, and they tend to be morally much closer to the similarly ReformedButNotTamed Magneto. Even Wanda Maximoff, who rejects everything her father was, is, if pushed, capable of doing things like ''[[BodyHorror dissolving]]'' [[spoiler: Sinister]]. [[KickTheSonOfABitch Granted, he deserved it]], and [[SendInTheClones it didn't keep him down long]], but even still... And with examples such as Bucky and their concealment of just who he used to be has more than a faint whiff of hypocrisy about it, something that's addressed (it's not necessarily right, but for various reasons - including that Bucky would not get any kind of fair treatment - it ''is'' necessary. Carol, who brought it up, isn't happy, and [[{{Foreshadowing}} all indications are that it will backfire spectacularly]]).

* While the main heroes ''WesternAnimation/TransformersAnimated'' are good people, the overall Autobot/Decepticon conflict is frequently shown as one morally-flawed group fighting an outright evil one: Ultra Magnus is OK with lying to the public if he thinks it will protect the peace, someone like [[{{Jerkass}} Sentinel Prime]] is a [[TheNeidermeyer high ranking officer]] while [[TheHero Optimus]] is [[AlmightyJanitor a space bridge repairman]], and they won the great war by [[spoiler:creating an Autobot as a superweapon and making him deliberately unintelligent so he doesn't question his own destructive actions]]. Meanwhile the Decepticons are [[AbsoluteXenophobe universally hostile to all other forms of life]], are more than happy to manipulate potential allies and scrap them when they finish serving their purpose, and field test [=WMDs=] in populated civilian territories out of petty revenge.

* ''WebAnimation/TheTwins2022: Lucas is an intelligent, sadistic, and manipulative bully who constantly tells on Lake and sometimes lies about the latter to make himself look better. But by the end of the film when [[spoiler:Lucas has been accidentally runover, Lake remorselessly disposes of Lucas’ body, without calling the cops, and decides to forever impersonate his dead brother without the rest of the world knowing]]. In the end, neither of the twins are good people.

* In ''Fanfic/MiraculousThePhoenixRises'', our heroes include a convicted stalker who's an aloof jerk, an AcademicAlphaBitch, a troublesome thug, and his cynical friend who's a reluctant hero. Then again, virtually every villain they face (normal or paranormal) is a KnightOfCerebus HateSink.

*** Benign nice guys too weak, gullible, restrained, and/or petty to ever do any lasting good (Ned, Principal Skinner, Milhouse, Lou, Mona Simpson)

->''Nobody seems to mind, because there is literally not a single rule regulating any of these events. This might explain why the nerds were allowed to sell pornography acquired via illegal surveillance in the next part of the competition, the charity fundraising booth. There are no good guys in this film.''
-->-- ''Website/{{Cracked}},'' [[https://www.cracked.com/blog/12-nightmarish-questions-raised-by-revenge-nerds/ on]] ''Film/RevengeOfTheNerds''

* Myth/NorseMythology is, fittingly, this. The head god, Odin, demands human sacrifice, practices questionable magic, instigates wars, and is known to turn on his favorites in mid-battle, ensuring their deaths. However, all this is necessary to make sure he gets great warriors so that his army is strong enough to keep the forces of evil from winning at Ragnarök so that a golden age can emerge afterwards. Oh, and he and his entire army don't get to see that golden age. All of his other gray features tend to be to either delay or prepare for that day. On the other hand, Odin is known for not wanting to harm a woman on any race.
** Thor has sworn to protect all of mankind, but is actually a KnightTemplar since he is willing to go at any length to protect us.
** Loki helped the gods solve many problems (which he sometimes caused) and was glad to save children from trolls. He is also destined to start Ragnarök.

* In ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'', the BenevolentConspiracy headed by Ozpin are constantly doing shifty or outright immoral things, but they feel justified since they're up against a demon-witch with plans to destroy mankind. However, as the series goes on, this starts to be deconstructed as the teenaged heroes find themselves wondering if what they're doing is right. [[WellIntentionedExtremist General Ironwood]] goes so far that he ends up JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope by the end of Volume 7.

* In ''WebAnimation/{{RWBY}}'', the BenevolentConspiracy headed by Ozpin are constantly doing shifty or outright immoral things, but they feel justified since they're up against a demon-witch with plans to destroy mankind. However, as the series goes on, this starts to be deconstructed as the teenaged heroes find themselves wondering if what they're doing is right. [[WellIntentionedExtremist General Ironwood]] goes so far that he ends up JumpingOffTheSlipperySlope by the end of Volume 7.