I don’t have much to say except that it’s always a bit of a thrill when someone I respect mostly agrees with me and my past reviews.
Could you expand this one, please?.
Uh, I do not agree. I feel there are some twists in said segment that couldn't be predicted save for taking some leaps of faith.
It is supposed to show how dangerous and corrupt the legal system is, because it lets people like Daryan or Kristoph commit crimes scot-free. Kristoph wouldn't have been caught in the act if Phoenix hadn't fabricated said card.
Thing is that this story wouldn't have presented the Jurist System in such a grandiose light as the final game does, it would have been just a new system and that's all. The game is trying to show how incredible the Jurist system is, that is also why Daryan's case was written as it was, to showcase how sometimes the old system is just corruptible-enough that criminals could manage to escape their convictions.
I firmly disagree on the notion that the entire game takes on a more somber and dour degree; in fact the way the review is worded sort of makes it sound like you went into the game almost expecting it to be bad.
That said I do agree on a couple notes. Ema\'s character being botched into just constant sourpuss mode feels like it invalidates everything she strived for in Rise From the Ashes. Granted yeah it is a realistic outcome, but it feels like she\'s a completely different person, which doesn\'t sit right to me.
I also agree that 4-3 is pretty sloppy in places, and it might have made more sense if one of the other supporting cast was a suspect. And yet, I found it pretty engaging, even more so than 4-2 in places, and using sound to figure out clues and contradictions was honestly a really creative and fresh experience.
It\'s unfortunate you didn\'t like it at all, and while I also contend it\'s not the best game in the franchise, the logic in this review doesn\'t necessarily convince me why you think it was a complete failure. It\'s true that a game made with passion doesn\'t always yield amazing results, but it\'s still a much more sincere experience than something that\'s functional, but stillborn otherwise.
Opinions are worthless if they're unbendable over time.
I mostly agree with this review, although I\'m not quite as harsh with Apollo Justice. I feel it\'s a bit like The Last Jedi in that it\'s a good attempt at deconstructing the rest of the series, but feels a bit like an oddball in the franchise due to being detached from previous and subsequent entries (AJ and TLJ each have other problems, but that\'s beside the point).
As controversial as Phoenix\'s actions in 4-1 and overall character are, it\'s a good way to set up the game, and probably wouldn\'t have been as effective if a new character had played that role. I also liked the twist of Kristoph being the killer, since it\'s a good subversion of what players had come to expect in previous first cases.
4-3 definitely has many glaring flaws, but at the very least, it\'s not disconnected from the story like many other third cases (or the fourth case in Spirit of Justice), since by having a killer who can\'t be convicted with evidence alone, it helps set up the final trial.
Incidentally, this review is far too long, at 5,000 characters when the limit is supposed to be 3,000. Unfortunately, the admins don\'t seem to have any interest in fixing the character limit loophole.
First off, I want to say thank you all for the commentary! I did not expect to see such a large response to this one, but I do appreciate you all taking the time to come and strike up a conversation.
@Spectral Time Well thank you, the feeling is mutual! I haven\'t left comments on your recent reviews because I am unfamiliar with the source material, but I have read them and I enjoy your work.
@megagutsman
Machi could not possibly have fired the gun that killed the victim, and there\'s no way Klavier would believe he did. It broke my suspension of disbelief that Klavier would charge him, and the case never recovered it back. I might have been on board had the tone been more light-hearted and comical like Case 3-3. But it was played completely straight this time, and I just couldn\'t accept the premise.
Yeah, in retrospect I both misremembered and wrote that part poorly. What I should have said was by the time we learn Zak was the victim in 4-1 the culprit becomes obvious. I would edit it, but unfortunately that would cause the review to run afoul of the character limit. Instead my mistake shall be preserved for both posterity and my embarrassment.
I guess that\'s true, but Phoenix beating Kristoph using the same means that Kristoph used to get him disbarred is very distasteful to me. It\'s essentially saying that the ends justify the means, and I don\'t agree with that. Forging evidence is wrong, even if the person is guilty. \"Fight them without becoming them\" as John Sheridan said.
I also disagree with the idea that corruption was the reason characters like Daryan and Kristoph almost got away. The problem there is the ridiculously accelerated time-table the AA legal system works on and the prosecution office\'s tendency to jump to conclusions. But to address that is to undermine a core aspect of the series appeal. The legal system has to be screwed up for the game to be fun to play, and we treat it like comic book writers and fans treat Comic-Book Time: \"I won\'t bring it up if you don\'t.\"
I'm a geek.
Forgive me, I evidently have still not figured out how to quote properly. I\'ve tried to edit my comment, but every time I click the update button it just reverts back to the way it was. Not sure what\'s going on there, but hopefully I\'ll get it right this time. Anyways, back to responding to y\'all.
I can assure you that last part is not true. I rarely waste my time on anything I expect to be bad. In fact, I went into this hoping I would come out one of the game\'s defenders. I was aware of its polarizing reputation going in, but not much else. I did want to like this game. I don\'t, and I\'m sad about that.
As for the game\'s tone, I guess we\'ll just have to agree to disagree. Phoenix\'s story, the quietly tragic nature of 4-2\'s defendant, Ema Skye\'s fate, the entire Gramarye backstory, and many other aspects just weighed the tone down for me.
So I think the big thing for me is that the game sets a lot of goals for itself that it doesn\'t accomplish. It introduces a new main character, but then does little to develop him and switches tracks to focus on Phoenix. It tries to make the supporting cast of 4-2 morally grey, but ultimately just makes most of the characters boring. It tries to make me believe Klavier is a smart and morally upright man, then it has him charge a 14 year-old with a crime nobody could believe he actually committed. It introduces a new trial system only for said system to not feel that impactful (though that\'s not entirely this game\'s fault, but we\'ll get to that when I review Dual Destinies). The long and short of it is that it felt to me like the game didn\'t really accomplish what Tukumi wanted to do. Ergo, I consider it a failure.
@Valiona You know, your TLJ comparison is pretty spot-on. It\'s weird though because I actually loved that movie when I first saw it and have somewhat cooled on it over time. I do think it had a great ending though and the central theme of \'Anyone can be a hero\' is both one I love and feels very appropriate for Star Wars.
As for the character limit thing, I understand the frustration, but at the same time I do still like my review and don\'t know at the moment what I could cut. So I\'m going to leave it be and let the mods do their thing.
I'm a geek.
...I don\'t know whether or not it\'s rude to put it like this, but for the record, I was trying to joke about how our two reviews on this particular game cover a lot of the same ground and mostly agree with one another.
If I bad don't remember Klavier himself says very early on that he was forced by his superiors to close this case as fast as possible, so he had no other choice.
Oh, okay. Believe it or not, that one wasn't one of the twists I meant when I said that they couldn't be predicted. I thought this one was a little bit too obvious.
So what are you saying? If a criminal plays their cards perfectly and beats the system then they should walk a free man? Because that is what both Kristoph and Daryan were about to do. At this point the justice system is a failure because it failed to achieve its main function, it is hurting the innocent and protecting the guilty.
Thing is that those weaknesses you mentioned lead to the justice system to be pretty easy to play with and corrupt by criminals (even more of this is seen both in the next game chronologically and in Gyakuten Kenji 2). This makes said justice system pretty bad in the eyes of the public. That's why the Jurist System was introduced.
Weird, it works for me. All I do is simply post what I want to say and then hit the "edit" button once but save it without doing any change to it.
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An Ambitious, Well-Meaning Failure
Like JFA, I don't have as much to say about the individual cases of this game. So I'm packaging it into one review again.
After T&T you'd be forgiven for thinking there was nowhere left to take Phoenix's story. Supposedly series creator Shu Takumi did too. But the order from Capcom came down that he had to be in here, along with a lay judge system that Japan was trying out at the time IRL. Takumi decided to tie these two requirements together, and this decision would ultimately lead to the most polarizing game of the series.
I won't beat around the bush: I don't like this game. There's only one case I actually enjoyed in this game. Two of them were mediocre, and one was just awful. It's not that this game didn't have potential. It's not that this game made a single mistake that ruined everything. There's just a lot of factors that really bring this game down for me.
The biggest one is the overall tone of this game. The series had been turning more exaggerated and silly as time went on, but this one tries to go the opposite direction. Unfortunately it over-corrects, taking on a more somber and generally depressing tone than the series is known for. Even leaving aside Phoenix's circumstances, a lot of characters in this story just aren't happy with their life. Trucy and Klavier are admittedly major exceptions, but they just aren't enough. There's a sense of bitterness and malaise hanging over this game that makes playing it uncomfortable, and not in a good way.
Nowhere is this embodied more than in the changes made to Ema Skye. Originally introduced as a bright, cheerful character filled with determination, she returns here as a dour, unhappy character who's resigned to her lot in life. Is this realistic? Yes. Is it enjoyable? Well, not to me.
To compound this issue, most of the mysteries just aren't very interesting. 4-2 is listless and its killer bland, 4-3 is moronic, and 4-4 is just too little, too late. There’s some appeal to uncovering the full story of why Phoenix was disbarred and what he’s doing to catch the man responsible, but by the time it comes up I’m thoroughly checked out thanks to the slog to get there. It doesn’t help that the answers are patently obvious by the time you reach the MASON System segment.
I will briefly break to say that I don’t mind the MASON segment. I like the more abstract nature of its investigation puzzles. It’s the same reason I like the Fade segment in Dragon Age: Origins.
Back to the story, one of its biggest flaws is that Apollo has no reason to be in this story. He does not grow or change from this experience, and he has no personal connection to Phoenix. He’s basically there as a proxy for Phoenix since the latter was disbarred. In the game that bears his name, Apollo feels like an afterthought. It’s disappointing because I felt his introduction in the first case was well-handled. I wanted to see Apollo take on a life of his own, but instead he spends most of the game led around by the nose. It doesn’t feel like he’s the one who scores the final victory of the game, it feels like Phoenix is.
So let’s get into Phoenix’s depiction in this game. The concept of his story is legitimately interesting. Solving the mystery of our original hero's disbarment and helping him take down the man responsible is a neat idea. The problem is that Phoenix is the one doing all the legwork and manipulating events behind the scenes while Apollo works unrelated cases. It definitely doesn’t help that some of the steps he takes, such as forging evidence during the first trial, are reckless and immoral. He could’ve gotten Apollo disbarred with that stunt, and Apollo was absolutely right to call him out on that one. It’s a dark take on the character that I personally just don’t like. And unfortunately it’s here because Shu Takumi decided to tie Capcom’s two requirements for the game together in a way that didn’t work.
That ultimately is the game’s fundamental misstep. I acknowledge that Takumi was trying to make lemonade out of the lemons he was handed, but he didn’t succeed. A better option would’ve been to simply cast Phoenix in the role of a more traditional mentor, like Mia from the original trilogy. Then have him introduce the new lay judge system to Apollo towards the end. This allows the focus of the game to stay on Apollo while still allowing Phoenix to be there and contribute. Apollo should’ve been Phoenix’s successor, not his pawn.
I’ll end this by saying that I do respect the effort the creative team put into this game. I don’t believe this is a bad game simply because they didn’t care. On the contrary, I believe they cared very much. Unfortunately a good heart does not always lead to a good game. It’s certainly more likely to than a soulless cash-grab, but it doesn’t succeed every time. I’m not angry with anyone for how this turned out, I’m just disappointed. I know they can do better because they have before. Thankfully, the next AA game Takumi worked on would be a drastic improvement, although one he would receive help with from an exciting new source. But I’ll get to that another time.