Tea, Coffee and Hot Chocolate
Can anyone see the Tropes in the A-F folder? They're not appearing for me and the source code looks OK at a glance
TV Tropes ruined Faust's life Hide / Show Replies
Can we really call the game an "everybody dies" ending? Given they also all get reborn/reverted back to the state the world was in before the merging happened. Nobody in the game seems to treat it as death. The trope's description isn't too helpful, as it doesn't list mass rebirth as counting but it doesn't exclude it either.
I'd say its also pretty far from confirmed their current incarnations cease to be, given that the Offseer's tune is heard and Noah recognizes it.
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The ending can be interpreted as both everyone dying and everyone living, even the ones that died before and during the game. It's definitely a difficult one, but I'm leaning towards rephrasing it to Everyone Lives.
Edited by PresidentBrit TV Tropes ruined Faust's life
Since we might have an edit war brewing, let me just chime in that I think that photo of Rex with the rest of the cast very much implies the babies are his. I mean they place Rex in the center, with his arms spread to cover the area where all three women are, a clear positioning to communicate "these are my wives and kids", with Zeke and Pandoria and Brighid and Morag forming two other groups distinct from the rest of the party. Add in that the babies are the same age and the implication increases further. I mean what are the chances that Mythra and Nia just happened to have babies with other men at about the same time as Pyra? And if they have other fathers then why are they not present? As for them not looking like Rex, I presume that is simply because prioritizing them looking like Nia and Mythra was considered more important. Or else you'd have people claiming the babies were not theirs. but rather that Pyra had three babies or something like that. Heck, this is the first time I've heard anyone argue that Pyra's baby looks like Rex at all, until now I thought them taking after their mothers was the consensus.
If we consider context and precedence, that its not explicitly stated that he married them all maybe shouldn't mean tropes related to that can't be put in. Xenoblade Chronicles has always shied away from explicitly stating some potentially controversial elements, like in 2 where they avoid outright saying there is a Blade sex trade (the closest they come to noting sex is the reason is Zeke pointing out Pandoria would be worth a lot to some people precisely because she looks quite human) but include enough to make it clear that is what they are talking about. Basically, I don't expect we'll ever likely get full confirmation that the babies are all Rex's, in fact I'm surprised they went as far as they did with the photograph.
Edited by Perentie Hide / Show Replies
If we rewrite all entries to make it clear that the game strongly implying that to be the case, rather than treat it as undeniable fact, then that's good enough. Same with Nia being Mio's mother. It's clear they're some kind of related but entries that state Mio as Nia's daughter like it's confirmed would be too far.
For example I'd change
to
To hedge bets.
Edited by AlleyOop
Someone seems to bizarrely take issue with the fact that Rex did in fact "love Nia and everybody". The little salvager boy grew up and became quite the man, and the end of 2 suggested that there was something going on between both Aegises, Nia, and Rex.
Though yes, they haven't outright or explicitly said any of this, but the body language seems pretty clear.
But apparently, these are just "non canon fan theories". Sparks sake.
Edited by xVanitas
Well hopefully they will be willing to discuss it. If not then I say just implement Alley Oop's idea. If this is still contested then I suppose an edit war needs to get reported to someone?
Honestly, it doesn't seem like they are. I even pitched the idea twice for them to make their ridiculous edits for the other pages which outright say that Rex married them all and had children with Pyra, Mythra, and Nia, but they just keep reverting these edits back.
I actually did rewrite those entries to be implicit. "It seems like Rex married them all", "it looks like Rex finally got a clue". I don't think any sane person would have any issue with that, because well, that's what the game is showing us. It looks like and it appears like that's what happened.
But honestly, just report it. They don't seem willing to discuss anything, accused me of being some other user who reverted those edits, and removed my Disc-One Final Dungeon entry just out of spite. Unless of course, my entry for that wasn't written well, but no reason was given for its removal.
I'm unclear on just what sort of definition of capitalism we're saying the game is saying is bad, but don't the existence of the Nopon caravans argue against a overall Capitalism Is Bad message? They're a private group not under the authority of either nation, and they work for profit. They also, while not always seen positively, are still treated as a overall beneficial force in Aionios.
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Profit is not exclusively limited to capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system in which the the means of production are not owned by the workers who man them but rather private owners (wealthy elites, in the modern day often shareholders who are not employees of the company they own stock in). It's associated with capitalism because capitalism often treats profit as the primary goal above other things, whereas leftist economies will range in their opinions on profit, but usually encourage that it's a good thing but should make its way back down to the workers who helped create it (whether it's a raise or investing in better infrastructure), but they are the ones who have say over a private owner, who is essentially a third party who reaps the spoils afterwards, and decides that some of it can go back to the people who made it in the form of predetermined wages and contracts.
It's easy to assume that capitalism = free market and that socialism/communism/etc. = command economy due to the Cold War, but the inverse can definitely exist. Market socialism, mutualism, and Ricardianism are flavors of socialism that encourage free markets, and conversely current-day China is often understood to be a mix of holdover authoritarian leftist views and a system that is in practice State Capitalist (functionally capitalist economy, but the top CE Os are members of the CCP who espouse their own bizarro version of Marxist-Leninist ideology).
Merchants can still exist in a non-capitalist system, it's more a matter of who they answer to. The Nopon are wealth-driven, but they are accepted because they are not part of the plutocratic elite and thus not a similar threat, but the games have past examples of Nopon who've amassed enough soft power to be villainous.
Edited by AlleyOop
Regarding Breaking Old Trends, if the positions and treatment of the false Melia and Nia have all the trappings of a faith then can we really say religion is an alien concept to the people of Aionios? They don't call it a religion, but it seems the same in every other respect. The queens are treated as superhuman controlling powers and pretty much everyone believes in and serves one of them. In a strict sense that is the definition of a religion.
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I'd say it's a mix of both. The game's lack of religious references is conspicuous given the franchise's tendency to shoehorn religious references even where it's awkward, so that much is true.
At the same time the Queens are treated as a Suspiciously Similar Substitute for religious figures, especially given the dialogue treats "Queen's [bodypart]" terms as blasphemy-type profanity similar to and "God's hooks/gadzooks", and I do think that's intentional.
One of the messages I interpreted the game as having was that even in a world without actual gods, humans will come up with a social equivalent to stand in for it, because a lot of religion is ultimately socially-driven. It would fit with the humanist themes already exhibited by Xenogears, where the "evil" Ethos faith, which promoted obedience to authorities, was created by the villains both to oversee the war and also to control the Lambs on the surface. Meanwhile the "good" Nisan faith used a fantastical creation metaphor to encourage a more socially forward message of collective aid.
Edited by AlleyOop
Is Riku's name considered an example of the Aerith and Bob Trope? I noticed it was listed with the more "exotic" and made-up names like Manana and Zeon. It might not be the most common name, but it is not that rare and exotic, and it's a name used in Japan.
The Italian Samurai
Melia and Nia look opposed to one another. Could Sudden Sequel Heel Syndrome be applied to them?
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The various enemies in Origin clearly qualify for Mechanical Abomination, correct?
Edited by 2HeadedMoonOctopus