Discussion Series / TheWalkingDead2010

The Wire & The Walking Dead: Omar Little & Daryl Dixon So: I was just watching S 03 E 03 of The Wire ('Dead Soldiers'), which includes the scene where Omar Little burns himself with a cigarette in his grief over the death of Tosha, one of his comrades who was killed in a firefight. (Omar cigarette scene is available on You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpKfV8l-bdc Time 1:08:33) Now, as many people who are fans of The Wire and/or The Walking Dead know, the two shows have a lot of overlap between their respective casts (3 major characters, as well as several minor characters and crew members). Robert Kirkam, the creator of the Walking Dead TV series, loves The Wire (See this article in Business Insider for more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-walking-dead-the-wire-cast-2014-10). In S 05 E 10 ('Them') of Kirkam's The Walking Dead, Daryl Dixon burns himself with a cigarette, mourning the loss of Beth Greene, who, like Omar's Tosha, was shot in the head. In my opinion, such a resemblance between two shows, particularly when the creator of the that came second is a huge fan of the one that came first, and when many big actors from the first play big roles in the second, could not be a coincidence. I also see many similarities between Daryl and Omar: Each has/had a violent older brother, is sort of like a vigilante, and surprises people by his buried humanity, and neither is afraid to resort to sometimes-extreme violence. Though they are certainly very different characters, they still have these strong connections, and the mirroring of the two situations is unmistakable. I am, of course, unable to confirm that the writers of The Walking Dead had Omar's cigarette self-harm scene in mind when they wrote Daryl's, but I know that we can add this to the long list of The Wire's echoes in The Walking Dead. I would, however, like to hear the thoughts of the TV Tropes community. What do you guys think? Also, is there a Trope that represents something like this? If not, then I want to hear what you guys think of the name I have in mind for this Trope: "Same Flow, Different Show"

The Wire & The Walking Dead

At 389K characters (see the bottom left corner of the main page), the page is getting close to when it needs to be split into several sub-pages, at 400K (when it starts breaking the wiki parsing code).

The usual path is to split them into several alphabetical groupings, so how about A-F, G-L, M-R, and S-Z? I'll need to sandbox that to see how the trope list splits up, but that or something like that is the usual method of splitting a work page.

I feel like Awesome but Impractical should somehow be put in here. Daryl's shaggy hair could mentioned (everyone in this position ought to shave their heads Shane style), as well as an aversion of the trope with many other things, like Michonne's style (a katana and zombie pets work surprisingly well, while still looking amazing).

Also, I'm unsure where this would fit, but the army knives damaging the brain enough if stuck in from the chin seems unrealistic, they probably wouldn't reach there, or at least wouldn't ALWAYS reach there, leading to scary situations where zombies are actually still alive. On a similar note, once someone gets the hang of it, they NEVER seem to miss a headshot unless cornered and scared.

Should The Team be added already? By season 3 they already count as such but its keep getting removed (I put it twice) for some reason.

Sorry for the miswritten edit reason on Karmic Death; that along with Asshole Victim has become such a boilerplate reason for misuse that I submitted it without properly sorting out my actual issue with the example. (That it still isn't a case of external events killing the villain/keeping the hero "clean".)

Not a trope, but the character page refers a lot to Merle as being "racist and sexist", and I for one do not see a lot of the latter in his character?

He explicitly states his racism in the first five minutes of his screen time, yes, and what he says to T-Dog is evidence of matter-of-fact racism, rather than just a dislike of one particular guy. But aside from using sexist language to address Andrea ("sugar tits"), I don't see any actual sexism on his part. Sexism is the belief that one sex is inherently inferior to another: he never puts down women for being inferior or their opinions being any less valid than men’s. More likely he only sees that everyone’s opinion is less valid than his own, man or woman. He never underestimates Michonne’s ability to kick ass, he judges women based on their accomplishments rather than their appearances, etc. Compare this with Shane, who tells Lori she needs to calm down and speaks to her in an extremely patronizing manner (as he does with a lot of people) when she tells him she wants to go into Atlanta. Or Ed, who specifically says he doesn’t have to listen to Andrea’s opinion because she is a woman.

The only evidence of sexism I spot is when he berates Daryl in “Chupacabra” (in Daryl’s mind, likely as a reflection of his previous behaviour) by comparing him to a woman, calling him bitch, pussy. This would indicate that he sees women as less capable than men and thus it’s an insult for a man to be compared to a woman. Or, given his well-documented propensity to push buttons, he just knows what’ll irritate Daryl the most is to call him a girl, because he knows that Daryl is the sexist one…?

I have trouble with the claim of “sexist” being thrown out there with no evidence provided to back it up. I don’t doubt there is evidence, but it is definitely missing from the page. Is using sexist language (bitch, pussy, sugar tits) enough to be qualified as “sexist”?

Who else wants to see a crossover of, a story sub-series inspired by, or grand unifying guess of The Last Ship with The Walking Dead? In the last two days I considered that US Nuclear submarines may, in fact, escape a Walking Dead like apocalypse. Not only could they survive without assistance for months, they may escape the disease altogether. Of course everyone would catch it the second they hit land (the disease in The Walking Dead is benign until the person dies), but, in theory, they wouldn't catch whatever it is if they surfaced in the middle of the ocean or on small island that hasn't been touched by outside influences since before the disease hit. I discovered The Last Ship after I thought of most of this.

The Last Ship follows a similar premise. A disease hits and the only ones who weren't unaffected was anyone who was on a ship at the time. Of course The Last Ship virus actively kills and doesn't zombify people. I can totally see the two series being the same universe as long as one of them was changed a little bit. It would be an interesting new perspective on "world ending disease/zombie" concept. A little more outlandish idea would be to throw in a little Falling Skies where the virus was a weapon used to weaken Earth a la Dead Space for an alien invasion. The virus would be an alternative to using an invasion force like what was used in Half-Life.

I'm wondering about the Anyone Can Die trope: There's a running list of each named character who dies each season, but it included characters who appeared for one-two episodes max. The trope page itself explains how this trope doesn't relate to when minor characters die, but instead important ones. I don't think it's necessary to list every single named character who dies. Also, I won't be surprised if the list eventually gets too large to manage.

I wondered if just leaving a description about how the show kills many characters, major and minor, or listing the important characters who've died, would be a better idea?

It's not a problem, though, if the consensus is that it stays as it is, fair enough. It doesn't bother me how it is right now, I just wondered if another format would work better.

Tried to add a shout out trope on the list. While fixing some screwed up link text I belatedly realized there's a separate page for that (and someone probably already spotted the specific shout out I was thinking of.)

But every attempt to delete it crashes my browser.

Wondering if someone would be kind enough to cut it out for me? Thanks, and sorry for the trouble.

• Suspiciously Similar Substitute: Happens several times (in quick succession) early on in the third season. T-Dog is killed in "Killer Within", the same episode where Oscar officially joins the group. Oscar is then shot and killed in "Made To Suffer", the same episode where Tyreese is introduced.

Does this trope really apply? The characters are substantially different, in terms of both personality and role. You could make an argument for tokenism ("OK, we've got a new black guy, we can safely dispense with the old one now") but it's not like they killed a character off and then brought in someone extremely similar to replace him, which is my understanding of the trope.

re: Impairment Shot 2nd level

Impairment Shot is a visual effect, not an audio one. Rick's ears were ringing from the firing, but that didn't impair his sight. His balance and ability to pay attention to things like structural frames inside the tank (like the one he banged his head on) is something else entirely. :P

In general, fixed formatting, Example Indentation, Natter trimming, spoiler adjustment. Some specifics:

• misuse of Adaptational Heroism
• Atlanta isn't a trope, and shouldn't be used as one
• Famous Last Words is about ironic word choices right before dying, not just anything said before then.
• I Warned You is a dialog trope. Neither Morgan nor Shane say anything even remotely like it to Rick.
• Hot Mom isn't an Audience Reaction trope.
• Misuse of Idiot Ball and Idiot Plot. Neither is "something I think is stupid", which was how it was used on the page.
• Sandbags set up as they were at the CDC aren't Improbable Cover. That's the kind of thing they're supposed to be used for in a combat context.
• Dale's not seeing the walker that killed him isn't Too Dumb to Live.
• Weapon Of Choice isn't "character uses a specific weapon", it's about the weapon saying something about the character's nature.
• Cut misuse of Wham Line.

Daryl's crossbow...

is a heck of a weapon to put walkers down. However... does he use the same bolts to hunt squirrels?

We can see him cleaning his bolts with a patch quite often, but, well... who knows what deases walkers may carry. Is it lampshading, a hand wave? Rule of cool or possible fridge horror? Or just a minor oversight?

What do you think?

The Virus/Not Virus/Totally A Virus/Confirmed/Actually...

There are a lot of people citing that the airborne virus is Wordof God, though in all media it is intentionally left vague. Even when asked directly about it, Kirkman refuses to clarify:

The rule is: WHATEVER it is that causes the zombies, is something everyone already has. If you stub your toe, get an infection and die, you turn into a zombie, UNLESS your brain is damaged. If someone shoots you in the head and you die, you're dead. A zombie bite kills you because of infection, or blood loss, not because of the zombie "virus." - Issue 41

A lot of information on these pages (comic, show, expanded universe) seem to argue this back and forth. Can we clean it up and stop assuming on what is left vague as an integral part of the mythology?

for the P.O.V cam, I think the moment in episode 4 when Daryl uses his gun to butt into a walker, it can be seen from the perspective of the walker that is about to get hit, i'm not sure though so i'll let the more experienced tropers deal with it.

I think the Only a Flesh Wound examples are more Law of Conservation of Detail.

It's a week for the viewers but has it been a week for Carl and Randall since their respective injuries that we see them walking around?

I remember having the same conversation with Wil Wheaton on Rick's long soliloquy to Morgan at the beginning of S2. Time doesn't pass for the cast as fast as it passes for the audience.

This troper hopes that Rick will use the "We are the Walking Dead" line like he did in the comics. I'm already ecstatic about hearing some of the comic regulars who thus far are not seen, will be turning up in Season 3.

(disregard)

First, spoilering the name is fine, just not the whole sentence. Spoiler Policy covers spoiler etiquette.

As for example ownership, please see Ask The Tropers.

It looks to me like Dale is the Guile Hero, not Glenn. Glenn doesn't seem to be manipulating people, but only asking Dale for help and guidance. Glenn seems sincere, but not working to play people against each other. Dale, on the other hand, hides stuff, lets people draw their own incorrect conclusions, all for the greater good.

This recent entry.

• That's how the characters certainly see it, but some viewers may say he got exactly what he deserved.

This seems to be more of a audience reaction to dale getting the crap beat out of him. I am pretty sure we can tweak a it a bit and drop it on the YMMV page.

What do you folks think?

• Did Not Do The Research isn't to be used on main works pages.
• Rick is part of a small town PD, which may not have had the funding (or even desire) to change from something that worked for them.

Removed this:

* CharlesAtlasSuperpower: Rick's bag of guns weighs about 93 pounds, yet nobody seems to have a problem carrying it around one handed. Even when it's flopping and hitting Rick in the bag as he'd riding the horse to Atlanta, he doesn't show any discomfort.

While I'm sure the bag isn't light, this sounds like an ass pull number to me.

Even if the number is reasonably accurate, though, I doubt Charles Atlas Superpower is the relevant trope, as nowhere else have the characters shown any significantly above-average strength.

BTW and as a personal note, judging from the example for the comic book on What Happened to Mommy?, it looks like the series is setting up for echoes of the comic storyline in regards to the farmhouse they're at as of "Chupacabra". However, until the next ep actually airs it's probably not good to add it to the trope list just yet.

Someone should add the fact that most military tactical vehicles and some emergency response vehicles use simply a push-button start and no keys what-so-ever. Vehicles like humvees, 7tons, the tank, and Firetrucks. So instead of grabbing a work truck to get keys, they coulda just grabbed the tank or one of the many humvees lining the streets.

The Just Bugs Me page links to the comic for The Walking Dead rather than the TV show, which is gonna spoiler folks potentially. Is there something we can do to make sure this link goes to the J-B-M for the TV show instead?

Hi, I was just wondering if anyone knows the name of the song at the end of the first episode? Would appreciate it, thanks.

Is Merle really a What Happened to the Mouse?? If the series had finished with never a mention of him again I can see him qualifying for that trope, but the S1 finale wasn't the end of the entire series.

This really just bugs me: I don't understand what they're trying to say by "set the air on fire." The Wikipedia article for thermobaric weapons, which includes HI Ts, says that thermobaric weapons "rely on oxygen from the surrounding air, whereas most conventional explosives consist of a fuel-oxygen premix." But I don't think that counts as "setting the air on fire" - I feel like the implication of that means "the air itself is being oxidized." If you assume the definition "the oxygen in the environment being used", lighting, say, a fire in a household fireplace would also count as "setting the air on fire," so it's not really an impressive statement at all. Just my two cents... I'd really appreciate it if someone with more knowledge of chemistry, etc. could explain this to me.

Not trying to start an Edit War, but the Attempted Rape trope is the accurate one rather than Near-Rape Experience. I read both tropes, and the latter indicates the would-be rapist stops of his own free will.

Shane did not stop of his own free will. He continued trying to force himself on Lori, with her saying "no" and "stop" and trying to get away to no avail until she used her fingernails on his face, hurting him enough to make him reel away from the pain. Only then did he have the "what did I almost do" moment. She may not be an Action Girl but she definitely did the self-rescuing.

This just in: They have fired the entire writing staff to go into S2 with an all new writing staff. http://tv.ign.com/articles/113/1137550p1.html

Just FYI, I moved some stuff around, but didn't go into the comic's page to do things there. The only comic stuff moved around was in the YMMV page, where I'm guessing they were stuck because either people didn't know about the other tabs or didn't think of them, and decided using YMMV as a dumping ground worked enough to meet main page guidelines until Wiki Magic did its thing.

Since this has been gone back and forth on a couple times with no discussion, I figure we should actually talk about it; I don't think Disproportionate Retribution qualifies, because he's not reacting just to that instance, he's acting on Ed's history as well. Even in the moment, Ed was doing quite a bit more than slapping, and threatening to do much more.