I think those edits make sense and are well reasoned and I thank you for your corrections.
I'm sure the example section needs more work, but these were just the most recent examples, so those were the ones I went for.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
I added on to them because it felt a little dry and unrepresentative and inaccessible. It was inspired by Gaiman's 2017 anthology which retold the main tales and intended for new readers.
I don't think Gaiman's anthology should be troped on here. IIRC, he admitted that he made various changes to the stories that he was adapting. It just seems that it should go on Norse Mythology (Gaiman)
Edit: Actually, I'm gonna ask over at ATT. This seems like a wiki-wide question, not just this one page.
Edited by WaterBlap Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
No he didn't make changes. He says clearly in his introduction that he merely retold the same stories in a modern fashion but didn't change the narrative or characterization. I.e. the stories are the same and the characters do the same thing in the stories as they did in the Sturlusson versions.
I checked and it was correct.
Cut the following bit, since it was being questioned and, according to my general understanding of Norse Mythology, Loki doesn't seem to fit that trope for Heimdallr — please correct me if I'm wrong.
- Evil Counterpart: Loki to Heimdallr. ?
Loki is a very old god, and he has his etymological if not functional counterparts in other Indo-European pantheons. Lyon in France still bears his name. But Loki has so many roles that he can't conveniently been assigned any one particular function. Snorri mentions various tales of him where he is wise, a bungler, good, a trickster or downright evil.
Heimdallr, on the other hand was mostly a listener and guardian of the rainbow.
I hope this explained things somewhat, but I do recommend reading Snorra-Edda. It's really worth it.
All the best
Einar ósiður
Edited by EinarOsidur
[blanked]
Edited by WaterBlap Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Wandering...
The list of "main characters in Norse Mythology" is much longer than one would expect. There are even listings of the sun and moon, who really can't be considered "main characters," what with them being the sun and the moon.
I put the list into a folder for now, but I think we need to talk about what characters to take off that list. A more in-depth list would go into Characters.Norse Mythology, and I guess we probably will need to write that on the main page (since someone decided the sun and moon would count as "main characters").
Just putting this in the discussion before actually doing anything...
The Final ECW Champion
I wanted to add that the Jotun were not all enemies to the Aesir and that many of them who were hostile were described as "dog-wise". I do not know what that term actually means though and if it is not a mistranslation or coincidence. Anybody know?
Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack
About Sigurd/Siegfried's alleged Blood Bath and why I deleted that example from the page:
Read this chapter
of Völsunga saga. Odin only advises Sigurd to dig trenches for the blood. The reason seems to be that the blood is venomous and that Sigurd runs risk of being poisoned or drowned by the blood if he digs only one pit. Odin doesn’t advise him to bathe in the blood, Sigurd doesn’t do it, and Sigurd doesn’t get invulnerable. Instead, he suddenly understands the language of the birds when he tastes the dragon’s blood while roasting its heart; a power he doesn’t get in the German Siegfried legend.
Nibelungenlied is dated to c. 1200; all the written versions of the Norse Sigurd legend are somewhat younger. The Ramsund carving
(Sweden) is indeed some 170 years older, but it definitely doesn’t show a Blood Bath either. — Also, the German legend is not derivative from the Norse legend; both traditions existed alongside each other for centuries (in fact, the legend had wandered from the South to the North at some unknown point in time before 1000 CE).
I also checked both the Prose Edda and the Poetic Edda, and they have no Blood Bath of Sigurd either.
As apparent by reading Völsunga saga, the other wiki’s page on Sigurd is erroneous. (Note that the page on Völsunga saga itself doesn’t mention a blood bath.) It’s not uncommon for people to confuse/conflate Nibelungenlied with the Norse Sigurd legend, and that's exactly what happened here.
Red Oni, Blue Oni - Honir and Mimir fit this trope very well. They were very close companions, Honir was very brave and a great warrior and Mimir very wise. However, Honir was not particularly clever and without Mimir he was completely lost. Honir to me is a Red Oni, and Mimir is a Blue Oni.
I feel like Odin's raven informants, Hugin and Munin, should be added in, but I can't find a decent place to insert them. Any suggestions?
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Here's some suggestions, make of them what you will:
Non-Human Sidekick, Ravens and Crows, Amplified Animal Aptitude, Interspecies Friendship (YMMV)
Edited by Laota
It says on this page that Loki wagering his head was an expression for his heads weight in gold. I know TV Tropes doesn't need references but I have never seen that theory before. I don't want to delete it in case I'm missing something, but I'd like to know where they're getting it from.
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I've never heard that either. It seemed like Loki was pulling an, "I'll eat my hat" and Brokk took him at this word. Either that, or Loki meant it literally but was positive he could fix the contest. I've never read anywhere that Loki meant his head's weight in gold, or any kind of expression like that anyplace else.
I heavily edited some examples and the edit reason is pretty long, so I'm putting the reason here: