Discussion Main / TheMagnificentSevenSamurai

Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Is this a plot or an ensemble?, started by fishsicles on Apr 17th 2011 at 11:40:42 PM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I cut this example:

• The Seven Samurai is actually based on the third play in the Oedipus trilogy by Aeschylus, Seven Against Thebes, making this one Older Than Feudalism. Although this is also an aversion in that the titular seven brought his own army, they were attacking the city during a civil war, and very much painted as the villains in contrast to the city's defenders, who the play focuses on (and whoa are also seven, and thus qualify for this trope. Confused yet?).

I cannot find any evidence for the claim that The Seven Samurai is based on Seven Against Thebes by Aeschylus. In the latter, there are seven attackers, seven defenders who are Thebans (not strangers), and no villagers who need to be trained to defend themselves. The connection to The Magnificent Seven Samurai seems to be imaginary.

Edited by LordGro Let's just say and leave it at that.

<deep breath> Oh boy.

Does the trope describe the ensemble, or the plot? On the Cast Calculus page, it is treated like one for the ensemble, but the description is largely focused on the plot.

For the ensemble: It seems surprisingly nondescript for an ensemble page, especially compared to the others listed on Cast Calculus (Red Oni, Blue Oni, Power Trio, Four-Temperament Ensemble, Five-Man Band, Six Student Clique). In my opinion, it relies too heavily on the Five-Man Band tropes (The Hero, The Lancer, etc.), which are usually thought of in the context of, well, the Five-Man Band; it makes it hard to see how this is different from a Five-Man Band but with two more members. While all of the ensembles above are written out with an internal explanation, this one just lists character tropes without explaining how they are put together.

From what I can glean (see also the archived discussion), the ensemble is made up of (using the FMB tropes):

• The Hero, who brings the group together
• The leader's second-in-command, and/or close friend (one half of The Lancer)
• The loner (the other half of The Lancer)
• The wise character, usually an Old Master
• An inexperienced Naïve Newcomer who is mentored by the rest of the cast
• The Smart Guy
• The Big Guy

Is this about right?

For the plot: The page is much more descriptive regarding the plot, and honestly this is the more likely assumption. The problem I see is that it segues unexpectedly into an ensemble description once the bullet points come up. This is more semantic than the above, but it just seems awkward to cut from a description of a plot into a list of character archetypes and an oddly-indented list of character events that can be attached to said list.

Am I just overanalyzing this, or does someone else see a problem?

Edited by fishsicles Not nearly a good enough singer for the Choir Invisible, and the Basement Room With A Synth Invisible is much less prestigious. Hide / Show Replies

Seems like The Avengers movie fits this trope pretty closely