Japanese legend about kitsune, one of many. Not Chinese, although there is probably a chinese variation of the same legend.
Edited by youngstormlord
This was removed from real life section, and I don't see why:
- Kevin Smith recalls when, a week before the articles exposing Harvey Weinstein's history of sexual harassment and assault came out, the latter called him, offering a sequel to the former's film Dogma, as well as a new home video release of the movie (Dogma is personally owned by Harvey and Bob Weinstein, and the distribution deal they had made with Sony expired years earlier) without asking anything in return. Smith's excitement at the prospect was shattered when the articles dropped, and he found out that Harvey called several other people, in order to see who was still on his side and who wasn't.
Just because it is one loathsome person ("The Bad Guy") doing the testing, it doesn't mean it is not a secret test of character. The test was whether they will be moral or side with "The bad guy". I think it should be reinstated.
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Trying to bribe someone is not in itself a Secret Test of Character. The goal of a briber is to make the person they're bribing act in a certain way, not to determine their character. That the person tempted by the bribe may reveal some of their character by either accepting or rejecting the bribe is only a side effect, not a goal in itself. Besides, an offer of a bribe is not "secret" to the person the bribe is being offered to.
The example was talked over in the "Is this an example" thread, starting here.
Well, I wasn't aware of that thread so I opened this one. Is it attempt at bribery if you are not told to do anything for the thing offered or given any reason why you get a sudden windfall? I say no, that's not bribery.
This seems like a secret test of character to me.
In fact, it is no way different from getting called by a friend and offered a promotion at a different company, only to later find out that it was your current company testing your loyalty. That would be Secret Test of Character too.
Edited by youngstormlord
It is an attempt at bribery because when the allegiations became public the next day, it became clear that Weinstein would not be able to fulfill his promises to Smith if he would be convicted or ostracized (let alone go to prison). So with the benefits promised by Weinstein in jeopardy, Smith would have a powerful incentive to side with Weinstein.
It is different from getting a fake offer of promotion at a different company by an agent of your own company, because Weinstein's offer was most likely real and unlike the company in your example, he wanted and hoped for Smith to take the offer. He was trying to secure Smith's loyalty, not test it.
It is much more like another company calling you and offering you a better-paid position than you have in your old company, in the sincere hope that you'll accept and quit your old job.
The example explicitly says that Weinstein did not ask anything from Smith in his call. So when Smith didn't make a choice in his conversation with Weinstein, and wasn't asked to, then how was he being tested? What exactly would be the test here in your opinion?
Edited by LordGro Let's just say and leave it at that.
Exactly as I described it: a loyalty test and test if Smith knew about accusations.
First of all, it is not tomorrow, it is a couple of weeks later that Weinstein is arrested.
The test goes as follows: If Smith was aware of the allegiations and still willing to talk to Weinstein, then he is a loyal friend who is ready to immoraly support Weinstein and wouldn't need to be bribed (which is a test of character). If he isn't aware of accusations, then he is a potentially useful tool that would need to be paid off and bribed. The fact Smith didn't realize that at the time that the call was the test and that other people got similar calls independently of each other makes it a Secret Test.
Smith had these options:
1) "Dude, can't talk to you, I heard about accusations!" 2) "I heard about accusations, I'll stand with you through thick or thin" 3) "what can you offer me to stand with you?" 4) complete cluesness about accusations
He accidentaly chose number 4, while Weinstein thought he is choosing 3.
Edited by youngstormlord
"Sounding" someone to find out where their loyalty lies is not inherently testing their character. Sounding someone to find out what they know has absolutely nothing to do with testing their character.
As Weinstein did not ask Smith whether he knew about the charges, Smith's willingness to talk to Weinstein told him exactly nothing.
Let's just say and leave it at that.
The fact that tester is paranoid and the test is flawed doesn't make it less of a test of character. At that point, Weinstein thought that everyone who knew him had already heard. He wasn't aware of option 4.
Attempting to bribe a cop by giving him a wad of cash and the guy responding to it with "Here, you dropped this." out of ignorance and stupidity. And not out of refusing it and threatening the briber. That sort of thing.
Edited by youngstormlord
I don't think I can reply to this without repeating myself, so from my side this discussion is done.
Let's just say and leave it at that.
Pure of heart, dumb of ass. As I asked before: Is it really a bribery attempt if the person doesn't realize they are being bribed, why someone would want to bribe them and realizes that it was only much later? And how is that different than "finding a wad of cash in your locker" real world example?
Can something be a secret test of character only due to characters naivety/ stupidity/ lack of information?
But ok, if you think this will go in circles, I'll let it drop.
Edited by youngstormlord
Babylon 5, in the bullet point that starts with 'Played with in the main plot of "Comes The Inquisitor".'. There is a word, probably someone's name, that is missing from this paragraph. Several places indicate the presence of a missing word, such as the use of 's.
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Another one on Wizards of Waverly Place, with a comma that should have a word before it.
Pulled this. The example needs to be much clearer. Who is testing whom, and how? (Not correcting the typos for now, because they are just too hilarious.)
- After doing a sercet super-job, The Sliver Age Supergirl, is gets a visit from Krypto. After a short race, she is meet by her cousin, the Sliver Age Superman, who banishes her from Earth. She gets a note to come back to Earth. She covers up her idenitiy — expect one reporter, Clark Kent! The reason was Kal-El was going to tell her his Sercet Identity to her — but he got outsmarted!
Commodore
Janitor seems to have nuked the whole Real Life section. I think that's serious overkill, especially since several of the fictional examples refer to the Marine legend. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of Real Life sections on this wiki that should be removed — mostly on negative tropes, where they attract politics-baiting and other trollery. But the one on this page just needs a little tidying up, so I've put it back. Let's debate any further removals here.
(I bet by doing this I passed Janitor's secret test!)
FiveMinute.net: because stuff is long and life is short Hide / Show Replies
My favorite will always be in a Starfleet Academy novel wherein young Worf's adoptive brother goes ape**** when the suddenly-scary-routine-mission turns out to be one of these. To my mind, these tests are like pranks : You can say till the end of time how it can help the target, but it always seems to be chiefly for the amusement of the one pulling it.
The Go-To For Accurate, Thorough Information about Elfen Lied : http://elfen-lied.wikia.com/wiki/Elfen_Lied_Wiki
Subentry I'd considered adding to the Negima collection, except it's subtle enough I'm not sure it's really there or just my own perspective on the event - and if I feel the need to explain enough for a Wall of Text effect, that's not a good sign. My references here are the published English translation of the original manga, the copious notes accompanying that volume, and my limited knowledge of Jung's theory which seems to be being used.
- Negi's later attempt to learn Magia Erebea is one subtle enough (especially as the manga cuts away from the significant part) that many readers won't catch it. At face value it's a Battle in the Center of the Mind where Negi faces a version of Evangeline (nonvisibly) younger and far more vicious; as usual her opponent is utterly outmatched, and this time around she's killing him... repeatedly... until either he wins or his mind simply gives up on continued existence. (His real body's also suffering fatal injuries, but that's just a side effect.) The catch, obliquely hinted at by Rakan, is that if Negi wins this fight and wakes up he fails, permanently sealing off the potential to use Magia Erebea. The essence to this art, and its potential to consume and use "the weapons of the enemy" is based in acceptance that you already are that enemy. The demon Negi's been trying to beat is actually what he's seeking to become, and his realization and acceptance of that was what ended the trial. This also finally explains the sheer sadism of Eva's training methods; being a Determinator kept him going, but only the beaten-in conviction that he couldn't hope to oppose her guaranteed he wouldn't do so successfully and wake up... still all human, probably happier, but having failed.
Cut this from The 2009 Star Trek film. It start with a "presumably", and then devolves into natter:
- In the 2009 film, we see that Kirk was brought up on disciplinary charges for "cheating". Presumably Kirk was going to argue that a Starfleet Captain should be willing to do whatever it takes to protect the safety of his ship and crew... but the hearing is interrupted by the attack on Vulcan.
- However, it loses much of its impressiveness here due to Fridge Logic. In the EU, Kirk's solution demonstrated his intent to earn a reputation that would make a Klingon fleet surrender, which impressed the examiners enough to let him pass. In the remake he just reprograms it so the Klingon shields fail, making him look like an entitled jackass who just expects everything to go easy for him.
- Or, Kirk being the son of a man who sacrificed his own life to save his crew, including his son, realized the Kobayashi Maru scenario was completely pointless. There is presumably no genuine pass/fail grade on the scenario given its conditions, and cadets are apparently free to re-take the test as they see fit. There's absolutely no fear evoked by the scenario, neither of failure nor of death, and as such has no purpose. So, it's fitting to openly mock the scenario and its creator.
- Or, for that matter, that he was simply going to have what happened in the unaltered timeline occur. He got an award for thinking outside the box!
- He also got so many demerits for that single act that another toe out of line would have gotten him expelled.
- In the 2009 film, we see that Kirk was brought up on disciplinary charges for "cheating". Presumably Kirk was going to argue that a Starfleet Captain should be willing to do whatever it takes to protect the safety of his ship and crew... but the hearing is interrupted by the attack on Vulcan.
Scalon D. Dragon
Would the Origin Story for 'Yogi's Treasure Hunt' apply? In it they were looking for "the great american treasure." In that one there was supposedly a solid-gold bald eagle statuette that seemed like it... but at that moment Dick Dastardly and Yogi close in on it, a little girl is spotted carried off by a flood. Sacrificing the chance for the statuette in favor of saving the girl, Yogi and the others accept Dick's "victory."
But the President later tells the "Great American Treasure" was shown when Yogi and the others rescued the girl, and the statuette was a phony. Meaning Yogi and the others won the right to continue as treasure hunters with a special craft to them, the SS Jelly Roger.
Someone added the Scrubs example again, so I deleted it. It's still on Secret Test.
Moved the Men in Black example to Secret Test where it belongs.
Edited by Arivne
Moved the following examples to Secret Test, since they don't involve a test/challenge the testee knows they're undergoing.
Commercials: A guy is offered sex by his fiancee's sister.
Fairy Tales: The Traveler
Literature: Lords of the Bow, Hand Of Thrawn, Lord Of The Clans, The Confidence Man, "Profession"
Live-Action TV: Scrubs, The Twilight Zone episode "Valley of the Shadow", Firefly episode "Ariel.", The Wire
Mythology: Hindu epic Mahabharata, Swedish folk tale Which Is Which?, Iliad
Theater: Macbeth, Rossini's opera La Cenerentola
Video Games: Baldurs Gate 2, Dark Cloud 2
Web Comics: Girl Genius, College Roomies From Hell, Misfile, Dominic Deegan, No Rest for the Wicked, General Protection Fault, Mega Tokyo
Western Animation: American Dad, Recess
Real Life: Van Halen, Henry Ford, condom joke, Zhao Gao, talking donkey joke, Honest Tea, honesty test
Edited by Arivne
Commodore
A troper recently went through and got rid of entries that were just secret tests, not tests of character. That's a good idea, but he was a bit overzealous. I can't speak for the other series with deleted entries, but the Naruto examples are definitely tests of character — they just got bogged down in natter about what else was being tested. This is why it's a bad idea to chop entries about things you haven't actually seen, at least without going through talk. Someone familiar with the other series (One Piece, for instance) should check the edit history.
FiveMinute.net: because stuff is long and life is short Hide / Show Replies
There seem to be a lot of new entries that are secret tests of abilities rather than secret tests of character, too. They're good examples, but where should they go?
Moved the Willy Wonka And The Chocolate Factory examples to Secret Test, because (a) they don't know they're being tested and (b) they don't involve anyone being asked to do something unethical to succeed, both of which are required for this trope.
Also moved/deleted the Robert Heinlein examples, since they're either (a) already on another, more appropriate page or (b) don't fit the trope description either.
Edited by Arivne
EX-TER-MIN-ATE!!!
Some people have "click here to see spoiler" do-dads on the entries. That's just not how Tv Tropes opperates good sir or madam. Does anyone object before I assimilate the entries?
I don't suppose anyone knows what the entry
"In Chinese legend, a magistrate is called in when two identical brides show up at the wedding, and he makes a "bridge of marriage" out of cloth to determine who gets to marry by crossing it. One cries and says she can't, the other crosses, and the magistrate uses his seal of office and a net to catch her as a fox spirit, since no ordinary woman could cross that bridge."
is a reference to? I'm trying to track down Chinese legends (for story purposes) and I can't find this one anywhere else.
Thanks.
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