I think this page needs a cleanup to remove all the instances of "someone could have been hurt and the story doesn't spend an hour dwelling on that fact"
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There's nothing in the description that sets a standard for the severity or scale of the disaster. Maybe there should be. But where do you draw the line between inconvenienced/hurt/maimed/killed/sent-to-hell-for-all-eternity, OR between a person/family/town/city/country/continent/race/planet/culture/system/galaxy?
I guess "killed" vs "less than killed" is a reasonable division. Still not sure how many it has to affect to count though.
This description describes the logic of why there might be a disaster after big action events in the story, but it's pretty vague about what is an actual invocation of this trope. Is it just anytime you could argue that the disaster could've occurred, but you saw evidence that it didn't in the story?
It's not clear why this isn't considered a form of Fridge Logic / subjective just as much as Inferred Holocaust is. It depends on the viewer drawing their own conclusions about what should have happened rather than what's actually implied, discussed or depicted in a work.
Isn't Yavin IV a moon too? I mean the first Death Star's explosion may have left a holocaust there, as the the Death Star's Superlaser would have.
Didn't this have a page image of burning Ewoks?
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Yes. Removed a looong time ago.
We need a new page called "Endor Holocaust Happened". There are so many averts and subverts on this page that "Endor Holocuast Happened" is a trope by itself.
Pontonius
While Return of the Jedi may be the trope namer, I think it is fairly likely that there really would NOT have been a holocaust at Endor. Consider that the Death Star II was probably a couple hundred thousand miles from the moon the ewoks were on (much like our moon is from the earth). Remember that Endor the moon is likely similar in size to the earth since it is only a moon in regards to the gas giant it orbits. That is a LOT of space for the debris to spread out in. Also consider the gravity of the gas giant itself. It likely would have collected a large portion of the debris left over from the explosion. In all "reality" the ewoks should have been reasonably safe.
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Debris was never the only issue. There was also the question of the energy released by an explosion powerful enough to almost completely consume an object of the Death Star's size and mass, and the fact that it was in what appeared to be a fairly low orbit around the moon of Endor. It's exact orbital altitude is hard to determine since there are so many conflicting claims as to how big it was (sizes range from 170-900 kilometers in diameter). But even at the high end it was orbiting not more than a few thousand miles above the moon's surface. This is a No Conservation of Energy issue, as all that energy just somehow appears to vanish without affecting Endor, or even just its atmosphere, in any way. Imagine detonating every nuclear bomb on Earth in low orbit, all together, all at once, and it would still be far less energy but would have huge ecological consequences. The explosion was also remarkably "clean" in that it apparently released no hard radiation whatsoever, nor did it release any radioactive particles.
Also consider when they blew up the shield generator. That thing had a power plant putting out enough energy to sustain a deflector shield capable of withstanding bombardment from an entire fleet of capital ships, and it was located on Endor's surface! The explosion that it did produce onscreen should have started an epic forest fire at the very least. But had it been more realistically scaled it should have wiped out everything for tens, or even hundreds, of miles in every direction! Of course, that would have meant killing several of the main characters in the explosion, which could not be allowed to happen. Especially not after they had already survived an extended shootout with graduates of the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy.
Hence the trope is really a valid one, and it is very common in science fiction media where you have technology with absolutely huge power-generating capabilities (enough to warp space in settings with FTL) that can nonetheless explode with minimal effects on anything nearby.
Lost in Space
- The Matrix Revolutions ends with the truth about the Matrix revealed to all humans, who are then given a choice whether to stay plugged in or leave for Zion. Didn't Morpheus speak of the dangers of unplugging adults from the mainframe in the first movie? Won't most of them go insane or apathetic at the knowledge that their world is just an illusion? As for those who choose to stay, how can they live their lives knowing it's all fake? Yes, Smith promised to erase Cypher's memories after his betrayal, but he could've simply been lying, and the machines can't really erase memories.
- It stands to reason that the mind erasing technology would be similar to the technology that allows Neo to download Kung Fu skills into his brain and allows Agent Smith to upload into Bane. Plus, the movie hints that parts of the system have to be reset when something goes buggy. The humans probably get memories overwritten on a regular basis.
I pulled the above example, because nowhere in Revolutions is it implied that Neo bargained for the general population of the Matrix to be informed of the hoax they're living in. The bargain was simple: stop the war with the Zion humans in exchange for Neo stopping Smith. This opens the door for the Zionites to convert more redpills, but they still have to convince them in the normal way. Also, the official sequel material, particularly The Matrix Online, treats the situation in the Matrix very much like the status quo before Neo came along and messed everything up.
Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Re: Independence Day: "** The spaceships presence over the cities would have flattened them and drove them several miles down. I'd like to introduce you to Mr. Newton and the whole "every action has an equal and opposite reaction". Those ships aren't floating in midair like balloons you know - they have to combat the planet's gravity with some force."
Firstly, consider how a helicopter doesn't crush everything that it's hovering over; this is because the force of its weight is being distributed over a much larger area than if it was to actually be resting atop something.
Secondly, and more importantly, it really shouldn't be too much to ask that we assume that these aliens have some sort of anti-gravity technology, allowing them to float without propulsion. It's a common sci-fi trope, and not even one of the more incredible ones.
Should we rename this trope "Endor Holocaust Denial"? After all, something that says that there was No Holocaust is a "Holocaust Denial" Something that says there was No Endor Holocaust should be an "Endor Holocaust Denial" Wordplay, People!
Edited by SYLOH Hide / Show Replies
Dude, no way. That's absurdly inflammatory, since the page deals with (a) fictional holocausts, (b) *that don't happen*.
Trope Repair Shop has taken up a rename proposal. More significantly, there's a crowner we can now vote in to see about a name change. If anybody's been puzzled what the difference is supposed to be between this and Inferred Holocaust, now's your chance to speak up.
Even if it were to be changed, "Endor Holocaust Denial" is entirely inappropriate.
Does Home Alone count? Everybody gave Kevin the honor of running the 2 burglers out of town, despite causing more physical damage than the burglers ever did to victims.
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Not at all. 1) What's the "holocaust" in this situation? 2) The damage done to the burglars can be filed away under "fuck 'em, they kept coming long after they should have got the hint."
Edited by MatthewTheRaven
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: No Endor Holocaust and Inferred Holocaust
, started by arromdee on Dec 4th 2010 at 12:12:20 AM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman