They kinda are, though. It's the reasoning behind the Ban on Politics.
Ban on Politics is neither Flame Bait nor No Real Life Examples, Please!.
If you're trying to say "add No Real Life Examples, Please! to all Flame Bait tropes", that can be discussed here
.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that Flame Bait could be a potential reason for No Real Life Examples, Please! (i.e. the trope is so controversial that allowing real-life examples would almost certainly result in Edit Wars).
The Man Outside Reality
If these tropes are so forbidden to use, why not just delete them from existence?
Trust no one. Hide / Show Replies
Then why are we not allowed to give examples of said trope? You can't just say something exists and not give any proof of it existing. That's not how it works
Mister Snuffy, I think you are allowed to give examples on some if not all of their pages (and only theirs).
Man in the Yellow Hat
What An Idiot is duplicated on the list despite being a redirect to What an Idiot!. Anybody willing to cut it off?
There's so much I wish I could take back. Hide / Show Replies
No, that's intentional. Both Main.What An Idiot and DarthWiki.What An Idiot (note the namespaces) are two separate pages. We had to add the main redirect to the index because that was the only way we could get the flamebait icon to show up. Once clean up for Main.What An Idiot is done, we will remove the note. Also, the page is locked so only mods can remove it.
Macron's notes
Srsly, if these tropes are so troublesome, why not just get rid of them forever?
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They're useful for providing definitions of Flame Bait, if not actual examples.
Late af reply(srsly, TV Tropes should add notifications) but eh. I mean the name "flame bait" def implies flamewars.
Oh, THAT one.
I really think Draco in Leather Pants should be on here. There is a genuine use for the trope when it comes to defining fanfiction trends and especially differences in characterization from the text, but 99% of the time when I see the trope linked, it's being used to dismiss or shame fan approval of a character rather than just describe a phenomenon in fandom. It falls in the same category with the rest of the Flame Bait tropes in my opinion, in that the trope has utility as a descriptive tool, but tropers seem to have a lot of trouble not using it to just be mean to people they don't like.
Plus, if I'm gonna be honest, the trope itself carries a bit of an inherently judgmental tone toward the basic idea of fans (especially female fans) liking, being attracted to or feeling sympathy/connection toward morally questionable characters en masse at all – which is and historically has been a common attitude relevant to fandom, but feels misogynistic to me à la popular hatred of things like Twilight or boy bands or whatever.
Nobody but nobody.
Someone made a Flame Bait page for Star Trek Picard, with the sole example being a Speculative Troping example for Canon Sue. That's not allowed, right?
Edited by Levitator
Why is this even a thing? Technically every trope, especially the YMMV ones, can be considered Flame Bait, because not everyone is gonna agree on something. That's why we have YMMV in the first place. Besides, stuff like Internet Backdraft is usually so unanimous that only a small minority of people would argue about them.
Otaku Unite!!! Hide / Show Replies
It's not that they don't agree, it's that there's such disagreement that they'd be subject to Edit Wars over if they count/have such bile it be hard to impossible to keep examples sufficiently objective as opposed to vessels for complaining.
Internet Backdraft was made Flame Bait because its contentiousness meant its used devolved into complaining (which was deemed not trope worthy) from the intended use. Here's where we decided to cut it if you're interested: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1560398648044269600
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Literature/HeavyObject
@idonom: No
(Dang replying to other users the normal way doesn't seem to work due to a glitch.)
Edited by MasterJoseph IPP Wick Check created.
Is Flame Bait OK to put on a main page if it's In-Universe (for example, Character A acts like the Character Lover part of a Fan Dumb, while Character B acts like the Hate Monger part of Hate Dumb; they constantly end up at each others throats over a person in the Show Within a Show)?
Edited by idonom Y'ALL JUST GOT SHREKT
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Literature/HeavyObject
I think there's another Mary Sue trope the editors of the Flame Bait page missed: Mary Suetopia.
IPP Wick Check created.
All the Mary Sue tropes are now Flame Bait? Why? I know the term is sometimes used incorrectly, but it seems rather extreme to ban the thing.
Edited by themaniacinthemailbox I don't get paid enough to do this shit. Hide / Show Replies
Because they invite a bunch of inane bickering.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Really? I never noticed anything like that, but then again, I don't go on forums much. Still, can I have some examples please?
I don't get paid enough to do this shit.
The inane bickering included arguments about Goku from Dragon Ball being a God-Mode Sue and some other examples that occurred when we still allowed examples on these pages.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
"Mary Sue" is not a very firmly defined term, and it is unbelievably rude to call a character such. Plus, they're called "Flame Bait" for a good reason: putting it on a work's page will result in a Flame War.
The page-acceptable Mary Sue variants are Parody Sue, Dream Sue, Her Code Name Was "Mary Sue" and Mary Suetopia, but that last one is subjective.
Knows-Many-Things
<Sigh> Methinks I'll have to ask for its removal.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
It was definitely decided to take it off the index. I hollered a week or so ago, but nothing happened.
I am planning to bring it forward in the Edit Requests thread once the current backlog has been sorted.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Can anyone explain why Fan Dumb and Hate Dumb aren't under Flamebait?
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Because the discussions on making it Flame Bait went nowhere.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Can someone please explain how it is? I've tried searching for the discussion to no avail, and it just led me here.
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
There needs to be a Laconic page so people can understand the definition of Flame Bait.
I want to nominate Mary Sue as Flame Bait since the term is misused for bashing. How can I?
Can someone tell me why Ruined Forever is in Flame Bait?
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Because it was being abused by tropers to complain about shows they didn't like.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Erda
I really don't like this absolutist approach to Flame Bait. In pages where there haven't been flame wars over these tropes, is there really a reason to keep removing them - even from the YMMV tab - just because it's been a problem on other pages?
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Yes. In general, Flame Bait tropes are marked as such because people cannot be trusted with them, period.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
See, for some of these, you are right - for something like So Bad Its Horrible, it does make sense that they are so flame-inciting that there is no point. But with something like Character Derailment, when there are examples of character derailment that are generally agreed-upon on particular fanbases AND represent a significant issue for that particular show that should be addressed on TV Tropes, then it does not make sense to keep removing them in every single instance. Something being controversial is not a reason to keep it from being discussed, and we have other rules (like the ones against Natter and the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment) that really should make blanket prescriptions against certain tropes unnecessary.
I just feel like we should not treat everything on this page with the same brush. Some of these discussions are less important and necessary than others. I don't like that TV Tropes seems to be shying away from any type of controversy these days.
Edited by Erda
For that matter, why is Unpleasable Fanbase on that list? Will both sides of said Unpleasable Fanbase think everything is right as it is?
I guess that Character Derailment and Unpleasable Fanbase were used a lot for "complaining about character_changes/fanbases you don't like".
And, from the Homepage itself, "We are also not a wiki for bashing things. Once again, we're about celebrating fiction, not showing off how snide and sarcastic we can be."
Same with Periphery Hatedom- I can see how one would start a Flame War over, say, Taylor Swift being an example, but Barney And Friends? Come on!
Peace is the only battle worth waging.
Mweheheh
I personally think that the Flame Bait banner could be reworded. As Lord Seth once said about Periphery Hatedom, "...what's subjective? No one will deny that a show like Barney and Friends, for example, is an example of this. Whether you think it deserves the hatred is of course subjective, but it is OBJECTIVE to say that it exists."
Just saying.
Peace is the only battle worth waging. Hide / Show Replies
And the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment.
This wiki is not a personal playground for hatred spreading.
Edited by AMNK
Mweheheh
Why is Character Derailment here? It's not even subjective.
Can these items be listed on a work's page if they're in-universe?
Not to mention, why are some of these still on the main site? Why don't we move them all to the Darth Wiki or *gasp!* the Permanent Red Link Club?
Edited by Spinosegnosaurus77 Peace is the only battle worth waging. Hide / Show Replies
1. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1301513324097356200&page=1#crowner
2. Yup, if they're in-universe.
3. Who knows?
Edited by SpellBlade
Ovechkin FTW
Why and how are the Character Alignment tropes flame bait anyways?
Edited by CounterBlitzkrieg Why are you reading this line? Hide / Show Replies
Mweheheh
If these are "the forbidden tropes", why haven't we banished all of them to the farthest reaches of the Darth Wiki yet? And in my opinion, Narm could be brought down to a YMMV item.
Edited by Spinosegnosaurus77 Peace is the only battle worth waging. Hide / Show Replies
Should someone add a note about potential Flame Bait being an example for a trope having No Real Life Examples, Please! status?
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