Tree of Doom
Aren't there enough entries on the Fan Works folder to warrant a page of its own?
If a villain who is a Noble Demon and a villain who is Faux Affably Evil are fighting for power, is this an example of Evil vs. Evil? Explain why/why not.
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This would probably be dark gray vs. dark gray as both sides still have some standards, albeit not the same ones. It depends on whether you allow for different kinds of evil or if you expect a true villain to be evil in every imaginable way possible.
It is a example of Evil Versus Evil. Noble Demon and Faux Affably Evil are Evil Counterparts of each other. The Noble Demon is The Lesser of Two Evils when compared to the Faux Affably Evil villain. The Faux Affably Evil villain will get in the way of the Noble Demon's plan, and this will cause tensions between the two, and they are more likely to fight each other.
Edited by 500100500
Why do tropers feel the need to describe the eastern front of WW 2 as evil vs evil? Thats probably natter and flame war bait to Russian/German tropers.
The nightmare fuel page for Call Of Duty calls the eastern front evil vs evil, for example
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It's commonly perceived as such. I would personally omit it, as real life misdeeds are beyond our purpose.
Unless it's evil vs evil inside of a story, then it's good to list.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
It was the Nazis under Hitler vs. the Soviet Union Stalin, two of the cruelest men and regimes in world history. I think when both opponents have committed genocide and caused millions of deliberate deaths, they're both evil.
Because it was split between "Live Action Film" and "Films — Animation".
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MagBas
- Sisterhood series by Fern Michaels: What's funny is that the author was trying to create Good Versus Evil, but ends up creating this instead. The Sisterhood uses Fate Worse than Death and Pay Evil unto Evil on their targets so much that He Who Fights Monsters sets in. Their targets are made up of rapists, child molesters, murderers, cultists, and thieves. As a bit of Irony, you find yourself feeling sorry for the people the Sisterhood targets, even though the author clearly expects you not to feel any sympathy for the targets at all!
Evil Versus Evil is not ymmv
MagBas
Similarly. Kenpachi is only a Soul Reaper so he can fight against powerful opponents. He gets his wish when he fights against Nnoitra, the 5th Espada. Said Espada was busy smacking Ichigo around, having waited until he was exhausted from fighting Grimmjow before he stepped in. He also saves Ichigo because there's no way he'll let the kid die before he gets his rematch.
- Kenpachi's example is rather questionable, given that as vicious and bloodthirsty as he is, he's never actually been presented as evil. Everyone he's killed has either deserved it or voluntarily agreed to a deathmatch due to sharing his Blood Knight tendencies.
As the natter says, in-story Kenpachi is not evil.
MagBas
- My Immortal gives us an unintentional example: Ebony is a raging monster that's a complete danger to anything and anyone she comes across. But she fights Volfemort, the Big Bad.
- Though, since Voldemint never does anything other than hijacking a MCR concert and speaks in vaguely threatening Purple Prose, Egogy might be truly evil while Volxemort might more more grey.
In-story, she is a good guy. And Evil Versus Evil is not YMMV.
Yes.
I notice the Spongebob Squarepants example was removed on the grounds that Krabs isn't evil. Now while Krabs may not have been evil when the show first started, he is now as a result of Flanderization.
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My Namesakes
Kersey475: Can this overlap with Pay Evil unto Evil?
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Not-really,-except-from-a-very-meta-standpoint.-Pay Evil unto Evil-is-about-the-heroes-feeling-justified-in-doing-deeply-unpleasant-things-to-their-enemies-because-they're-the-bad-guys.
Evil Versus Evil-implies-that-neither-side-has-an-excuse.
Edited by Iaculus What's precedent ever done for us?
In a Pay Evil unto Evil situation, the hero is portrayed as being in the right when doing bad things because the victims are evil and deserved it. In an Evil Versus Evil situation, there is no hero, there are just two villains. Noone is in the right, though one may be less in the wrong than the other.
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what about gang wars? both sides kill, rape, steal, and other miscellaneous crimes. And arguably only for terrortory or because someone disrespected someone from the other gang
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411314: I know the page forbids real life examples, but why can't we add Stalin vs. Mao? Surely, we can all agree that both of those men were evil (they both had a lot of people murdered, after all) and they did become opponents (look up the Sino-Soviet Split). I know when I posted this question the first time, jojabar replied
"For the same reason that we don't have any real life examples on the Character Alignment page: Real Life morality is far too complicated and subjective to not cause an Edit War."
But is it really "complicated" or "subjective" as to weather or not mass murderers are evil?
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Because when we say "No Real Life examples", we don't mean "No Real Life Examples except a couple of them." It's impossible to draw a line and say "These are okay, but no others" because everyone who wants to add one thinks it's just as clearcut as the ones that are already there. It's much clearer to simply draw a line and say "No. None." The wiki isn't really about Real Life examples anyway.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Not to mention that some of the real life entries could cause an edit war. The removal of real life examples on this page was because of some minor edit war started by someone who kept putting in "Japan VS. USA in WWII" as an example.
Someone really need to edit and lessen some of the details for real life examples. It's dangerously breaching the Ruleofcautiouseditingjudgement.
I have always considered that most wars are evil versus evil, lass only exceptions are those of independence and those who are in self defense.
I must say I found it unfortunate that we can't list facts. It's like the cencorship in China who doesn't want anything 'bad' about them in their newspapers. I can only imagine people removing USA stuff for their USA-ego. A lot of people do not know that normal americans citizens who happen to have Asian roots where thrown into camps after Pearl Harbor. I thought tvtropes was informal just like any wiki. This has nothing to do with an opinion at all, these are facts. This makes me question the credibility of a site I use as a guide, how sad.
Calling real life people "evil" is only going to piss people off. It's that simple. Please don't compare the admins to China. That sort of ridiculous hyberbole isn't going to make anyone take you at all seriously.
I was thinking Henry Kissinger's quote about the Iran-Iraq war: "the ultimate American interest in the war [is] that both should lose," would fit this fairly well (if you are an Eaglelander). But no Real Life examples means that, so I'll just leave this here.
Code geass does not count. The main character is clearly an antihero, and the show operates under black and gray.
Couldn't we have the Aztecs vs. The Spanish? The Aztecs, who practised human sacrifice and cannibalism, vs. the Spanish who enslaved the Indians, looted their temples, and raped their women?
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41314
Just to be clear, is this restricted to Villain Protagonists with antagonists who are also villains, or can also include villains fighting each other despite niether being the main character? Some examples currently on the page fit the latter but not the former.
Edited by 411314 the world is so complicated Hide / Show Replies
I think that the other one might fall under Enemy Civil War. Assuming that there is a protagonist faction for both to be antagonistic towards.
What's precedent ever done for us?
I just realized (and fully agree with) why this trope is not titled Black-and-Black Morality, although I see the redirect for it.
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Now that you've pointed it out I see it, too. Nominating this title for Cut List, as it's long since fallen out of use.
See you in the discussion pages.
Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Page description sounds like Black and Grey Morality.
, started by tropetown on Aug 27th 2011 at 12:25:47 PM
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman