Discussion Main / CreatorsPet

What about In-Universe examples?

I believe this trope has underwent major Trope Decay; many examples refer to Base Breaking Characters and/or do not provide evidence of them being hated by the fanbase (which is one of the 4 key criteria for the trope).

Okay, I'm objecting to the X Men Evolution entry of Jean Grey on the Western Animation sub-page. I may simply be a fan of the character, but I never detected overwhelming hate for her, except for one bad fanfiction writer who put her down to make the self-insert OC look good. Nor did I really see any justification for her being classed as Creator's Pet - Rogue, after all, got far more screen time and it was her character arc that dominated the show, though she was fairly well received. People who are simultaneously intelligent (I don't think she was ever shown as being top in the school, and she's always been very clever) and sporty do actually exist in real life.

Maybe Base Breaker (though I can see little enough evidence of that, either...) might be more appropriate?

While I consider Carlie a Wesley myself, her section has picked up a lot of natter. Does anyone mind if I cut down on all of that and just give a brief summary?

Can a character be both a Base Breaker and a Creator's Pet at the same time. If not, we should remove examples like Broly where that is clearly the case. I'm pretty sure this trope means "The Scrappy who's loved by the creators".

Also what should we do about characters who are popular in certain areas and not others.

Sometimes I wonder what the point of subjective trope pages are if you still have to jump through so many hurdles just to list something.

Removed a especially natter-y Anti-Travis rant form the Star Wars EU section for being a)completely irrelevant to the trope at hand and b)so YMMV that I doubt it would place in the YMMV section.

If the Word of God admits that a character is a Creator's Pet, does the character still qualify despite not meeting the criteria?

I think that Superboy-Prime qualifies as a subversion of this trope. He has many of the hall-marks of a Creator's Pet in that he always has a spotlight in major crises, writers use him to kill off a bunch of characters they don't care for, and generally like writing him...but they still hate him and treat him with no respect, just like the fans.

If a character happens to become overused by the creator because it first became very profitable/popular with the public, does said character qualify for this trope?

I have a question, why is Wesley Crusher the "Wesley", yet Will Robinson of Lost in Space, not considered the "Wesley"? Like Wesley, he's a genius and like Wesley, he did occasionally get the Robinson family in trouble? I'm just honestly curious

I doubt anybody's going to see this given it hasn't been posted in for a while, but I removed Jo from Big Time Rush from the Live Action TV section. I didn't know fans actually liked her-I added her in the first place, because at one point I remember her being listed as The Wesley on the show's YMMV page. And the point of her actions in "Welcome Back, Big Time" was that Kendall was being a jerk? The only justifiable excuse was his constantly breaking her kiss scene, and for the most part going to such extremes to know what was happening with her and Jett even though it was nothing. Regardless, I still hate that episode.

As well as that, I find Gibby being listed as one questionable. Most iCarly fans I know like him, and I don't see him as much of a Jerkass myself.

One thing I'm wondering, what if a character is, say, in only one or two episodes. But in those episodes, it's clear the producers really liked them, but the fans pretty much hate their guts. Do they have to be a main character, or do they just have to hog the screentime they do get and get shilled during it?

Why the name change? the Wesley was fine, so why the change to Creator's Pet? It Bugs Me!

I am currently involved in an Edit War against someone who's name i forgot to look up before posting this message over the entry for Itachi Uchiha.

• Constantly done with Itachi Uchiha in Naruto. Does he get called out for his repeated Mind Rape attacks on Sasuke? No. Does he get called out for enabling Akatsuki to get stronger? No. Does he get called out that he did nothing to prevent Akatsuki from gaining the Biju? No. Does he get called out for his More than Mind Control plan to rob Sasuke of his free will? No. Instead, he is viewed as a perfect person inside the Narutoverse. Bee even said, after Itachi lectures Naruto *then breaks the point of the lecture by going alone to face Kabuto* that he wasn't 'just strong'. Itachi can get away with anything and is now a huge Karma Houdini since he's not called out for ANYTHING he's done.

I do not believe this entry can belong on this page because Itachi is not a Wesley, large parts of the Naruto fandom love Itachi, another large part hates him, and presumably the rest of the fandom doesn't love or hate him, but acknowledges that he's there. Since the Wesley is defined as a character who is hated by the overwhelming majority of the fandom, i don't see how Itachi can be considered a Wesley.

Now, if i'm wrong, and he can be put on this page despite not being a Wesley, i believe that certain parts of the message should be removed or toned down. The Karma Houdini part doesn't apply to Itachi. Karma is a simple concept: do bad things, and bad things will happen to you; do good things, and good things will happen to you. Itachi did bad things for good reasons, and bad things happened to him. First he killed his family (bad thing he did) and then he spent the last eight of his twenty one years as a diseased fugitive despised by the people he sought to save (bad thing that happned to him). Then, not only did he DIE, but he was resurrected to find out that his plan failed and the war he murdered his family to prevent started anyway. Because he did not escape Karma, he is not a Karma Houdini.

I also believe the Hyprocite part is debatable. I can see how one would come to that conclusion. But it ignores the fact that Itachi was talking about fighting one person on his own, while Naruto was talking about fighting AN ENTIRE WAR on his own.

As this trope has been split into separate example lists, I am locking the main article. Any discussion of the description should go here.

I deleted some factual errors, but I'm wondering if River Song even fits given the justification. This is not Complaining About Characters You Don't Like.

I personally think this trope needs to go to the Repair Shop. Most of it contains legit examples of this trope, but a lot of it is just complaining about main characters you don't like. Main character detested by you /=/ Wesley.

Is it just me or is the entry for Imoen from Baldur's Gate fairly vicious?

• Imoen from Baldur's Gate is an inversion; the fanbase loves her, but the creators openly despise her for some reason.
  • " They despise her because the only reason the fan base likes her is because she is a fairly attractive woman. In Baldur's Gate, she was a generic character (she even had one of the generic voice sets rather than a unique one) with virtually no development beyond being almost forced on you as your first party member so you had access to thief skills. The only role in the plot was to die in Baldur's Gate 2, but given the undeserved fan base love for her, they had to rewrite vast sections of the plot to accommodate that."

That's almost at complaining about characters that you don't like levels.

I'm curious: I don't read comics, so what exactly is the hard life Carlie Cooper supposedly has that makes Spiderman's life look trivial? (I don't doubt that Carlie's life is likely a cakewalk compared to Peter's I just would like to know how)

I'm not a Harry Potter fan at all, but is Ginny Weasley really universally hated by fans/loved by JKR enough to be on this page?

What is really the difference between a Mary Sue and a Wesley? Aren't Sues hated by the readers, loved by their authors and generally offered large roles of the story (if not it's central focus)?

Am I the only Troper who thinks Bill 156 is a Wesley? Because a bunch of the otaku nation does, especially in the affected area (Tokyo). It doesn't help that the Tokyo GOVERNOR pushed for its passage.

re cut

Teachers Pet normally implies that the person is hated too. the sort of behaviour of a "pet" is generally regarded as irritating, comparing something to a pet i hardly flattering, redirects don't have to be spoony.

So... I was thinking this entry is a bit overlong. Some of the parts don't even make much sense; I have NEVER seen the Dark Angels get that much praise from GW, and a lot of fans playing them makes them Ensemble Darkhorses, not Wesleys.

Plus, the Ultramarines entry in general seems to be "Whinewhinewhinewhinewhine" more than just explanation.

Should I cut some?

• Some Warhammer 40000 fans think that the sudden elevation of the Necrons and their undying C'tan masters to essentially the prime source of all evil in the universe - responsible even for Chaos, the force intrinsically opposed to the Necrons and the traditional Big Bad of the setting - was an entire race of Wesleys. The insinuation that the C'tan secretly rule a large part of the Imperium and are worshipped by a smaller but incredibly critical part has not helped this any.
  • The new 5th Edition rules seem to be trying to rectify this, pointing out that the long hibernation coupled with the constant repairs to their bodies have turned many of them into mindless procedure-following automatons, and most Lords are so completely insane they think themselves immortal gods and build grand powerful bodies for them to inhabit and wage war with. Whether this removes the C'tan from the fluff completely is uncertain at this point, but it appears Chaos is back as Big Bad numero uno.
  • The Tau could be considered another example of this trope. When they were first introduced they were young idealists with shiny new technology and anime-inspired mecha, needless to say many fans thought this didn't at all fit with the tone of the universe. The fact that they then continued to prosper and expand significantly whilst suffering no major set-backs in conflict with the other factions only served to reinforce the fans' belief that Games Workshop had only introduced them to lure in young anime fans. With the release of their second Codex, however, they were 'darkened' appropriately and made to seem less like a United Federation of Planets-esque utopia and more like an Orwellian police-state. Most fans have now come to accept the Tau as a legitimate part of the 40k universe.
    • The lesson seems to be that in the messed-up Crapsack World of 40k, It's Popular, Now it Sucks.
  • Now there's the original Space Marines themselves, and the Ultramarines in particular. Codex Creep has made them more powerful on the tabletop, and for some reason the Ultrasmurfs keep getting more hero units, more exposure and never seem to lose. It was even worse in the last edition; almost every single picture in the previous Codex was of the Ultramarines, with only a few pages to show that other chapters actually existed. The Space Wolves are being accused of even more Codex Creep, especially with one particular psychic power that's just begging for errata, but... they're Viking werewolf space marines, we just can't manifest the hate.
    • While we're at it: the Commander kit comes with six pauldron options. One blank, one with scroll-and-circle-for-insignia, one with a skull-faced eagle, one with a Crux Terminatus, one for the Deathwatch...guess which chapter insignia was on the sixth. (The Dark Angels were the only other chapter to get a reference in said kit, and that took the form of an unbelievably tiny little winged sword badge that was almost impossible to get off the sprue without surgical equipment.)
      • To be fair, the Dark Angels rule GW. Go to any 40k/Hobby store. Any one. You WILL find a Dark Angels fan. Also, they tend to be the only ones to actually succeed in their campaigns, due to the more experienced players using them.
    • A better explanation behind how much of the Wesley the Ultrasmurfs are: In most codexes, the armies get a sweeping generalization through most of the codex, and individual armies get a one paragraph summation regarding their basic structure. There are 30 chapters within the basic Space Marine codex. 29 of them have the one paragraph summation and a picture of a basic Space Marine. The entirety of the rest of the codex is dedicated specifically to the Ultrasmurfs. All of the stories involved in other codexes are usually battles that involve a lot of armies fighting together, and prevailing. There is precisely one chapter that gets referenced at all in the stories, and that's the Ultrasmurfs and the Ultrasmurfs only. It's no wonder that they're annoying the players with how much they get pushed.

Adric seems to be misplaced here. I don't think he counts as a Wesley because his teammates don't exactly lavish praise on him all the time (see "Four to Doomsday" for some choice Take That, Scrappy! moments, including Nyssa telling him to shut up and the Doctor calling him an idiot and a delinquent) and since he's in the infamous "crowded TARDIS" he doesn't have heaps of screentime either. I think the only real Wesley quality he has is the fan-hate, which would make him more of a Scrappy. Personally I love the little bugger, but I know he's far from perfect.

Been bugging me for a while, but the Jessica Jones example doesn't really list why she's a Wesley other than one single example of shilling. If anyone else has support for it feel free but I'm thinking of cutting it just for poor explanation.

I thought I was the only one who hated that stupid Godot -_-

Page quote:

I'm the troper who originally put in the "Face it Lana, you're amazing!" quote at the top of the page (the ultimate Lana shill). Later I found that it had been changed to "C'mon Lana, you're amazing!" Admittedly, I don't own the Smallville DV Ds, but I'm sure that the line was "face it". I've changed it back again, but if someone with the DV Ds would like to check what the exact quote was, then feel free to switch it back to "c'mon" again if I'm wrong.

1. Andy Bernard on "The Office" qualifies for me. Ever since he came in, he has disrupted the character dynamic of the show and the showrunners have gone out of their way to make him a primary focus of the show. The fact that he and Erin have been earmarked by the network as the New Jim And Pam is just more of the same.

• Your Mileage May Vary. Andy has sometimes become the most likable person on the show during the times both Jim and Pam have Taken A Level Of Jerkass.

Guys, if you feel the need to start with "for me" then it probably isn't broad enough and should go in Tropers Tales

Wouldn't a Music subsection be relevant ?

In concerts, acts tend to invariably include in the setlist personal favourites the audience could do without : - The Gloaming more regularly performed live by Radiohead than anything off The Bends - Queen shows were universally viewed as exhilarating experiences. During 8-minute-long bleeps-and-bloops Get Down Make Love, less so - Generally any overlong self-indulgent guitar or drums solo - U2 has performed Sunday Bloody Sunday at every show but one in 13 years. It's a hit so they might think they're providing fanservice, but in truth the fans are SICK of the ear worm

Pardon me — does anyone know if there's a trope that describes the polar opposite of The Wesley? As in, a character that fans like, but the creators hate? And I don't necessarily mean Screwed by the Network where executives hate them.

i really have to ask because this is not on the canonical list of yadda yadda yadda... but what's the difference between this and the canon sue?

Would corn fit on this list? The US government subsidizes the living daylights out of it and also levies a large enough tariff on sugar(actually the sugar lobby's fault) that corn syrup can be found in damn near everything. The corn lobby's also running these "sweet surprise" commercials that use Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics to gloss over the fact that fructose is less healthy than sucrose.

I doubt Kotchanski counts as the Wesley. Lister and Kryten still get as much screentime as before and she never got any shilling in the season where she joined the cast full-time (in fact, quite the opposite happened to her at Kryten's hands throughout the series). In the next season most of the focus was back on Rimmer and Lister's Odd Couple room sharing, so she wasn't exactly a Spotlight Hog. Not to mention that she was all but Put on a Bus in Back To Earth. If anything, she's a milder version of a Replacement Scrappy. But even then, the staff tried to stop her from truely replaceing Rimmer by keeping his appearences in flachbacks and dream sequences to make the most of Chris Barrie's limited availabilty for work, while he was filming The Brittas Empire.

Ryan Lavery of All My Children definitely fits this trope. More than one discussion board actually has a "Die, Ryan, Die" war chant, yet Ryan quite possibly gets more screen time than Erica Kane. All the other characters (especially the women) practically wax poetic as they extol his virtues to anyone they can corner, yet none of these virtues are readily apparent... the audience is just supposed to believe in them because they've been TOLD to.

Is Neelix really a wesley? I don't remember him getting a disproportionate number of focus episodes. He's a Scrappy no doubt, but I don't think he fully qualifies as a Wesley.

I like the top page quote. Lets keep it! (and name it George)

Doesn't Owen actually have a lot of fans? I listed him as a Base Breaker and nobody seemed to mind.

Edit: And he won the first season because he got enough votes from the fans. Well, I think the "you pick the winner" never happened for the first season in Canada, but in everywhere else...

I said this in the archived dicussion, but do the Kankers from Ed Edd N Eddy count? I think that since they are used as a quick way to wrap up the episode, the writers must like them. Yet, they are hated by nearly every single EENE fan.

Is Dana Walsh from 24 really a good example of a Wesley? I'm not contesting that she was a detestable character with a time-wasting subplot, but I don't really sense that she was the "Creator's Pet" or overly well-liked by the writers or showrunners. Given how her character has turned out, it seems like the writers intended for her to be widely hated by the fans, which contradicts the basic idea of a Wesley.

A lot of the examples here seem to be base breakers. Should I cut the entries that say the character has a fanbase?

Is Green Lantern John Stewart really The Wesley? Most of the fan criticism of him seems to be that he's just put in situations that other G Ls would fit better, not that he's a bad character.

It's subjective. Stop adding natter!