I agree about the ”evil” part. Both Spielsdorf and Laura’s father aresupposed to be good guys. If they give a different impression today, it’s Values Dissonance rather than AAE. So it’s not an example on that ground.
As for aristocrats vs. Upper class in general, I’m not so sure. It depends a bit, I think, on how the class structure of Austria in the period actually worked - i.e. was there a big difference between aristocrats and wealthy non-aristos, or even between the upper and lower aristocracy.
Oh, and I don’t think there’s such a thing as ”downplayed evil” in this context. The trope is about the upper classes being outright evil, not basically good people with a somewhat callous view of the lower classes.
Edited by GnomeTitanSo I re-read the latest edit reason, and I see the point behind the re-add better now, especially if it's true that bad treatment of the lower classes is a conscious theme of the story and not just Values Dissonance.
I still don't think this is quite the right trope, though. As I wrote above, these characters are not evil, not even downplayed evil (whatever that is). In fact, part of the message in this story seems to be that the upper classes are good people.
The trope in play here is rather "what measure is a peasant" though that trope doesn't seem to exist. I'm not quite sure what to do with this example, but, even though Tropes Are Flexible, it doesn't feel quite right.
Edited by GnomeTitanThanks for weighing in. I pm'ed Cilver when I made the opening post above, but they did not react. I have taken this to "Is this an example?", just to be sure.
Edited by LordGro Let's just say and leave it at that.Since there was support for deleting this entry both here and in "Is this an example?" forum, and Cilver did not return to defend the example, I'm deleting it now.
Let's just say and leave it at that.OK, who neutered the Quotes page? And why the fuck would they do that?
ALTERNATIVELY: Why the hell do we have an advertisement towards a quotes page with only one quote? It makes no sense what so ever for us to advertise that you should read the quotes with the vampirism/homosexuality thing in mind if there's only one quote.
Edited by InfinityOrNone Hide / Show RepliesWell, in my eyes it makes sense, but whatever. Better now?
Btw, I removed one quote from the quotes page when I moved it over to the main page.
Let's just say and leave it at that.I do not believe Carmilla's Languidness is about of the Daylight, she actually seems that way 24/7.
Hide / Show RepliesI am not sure whether it's specifically the daylight that is making her (seemingly?) "languid", but it's implied that Carmilla is actually quite active during the night. She roams the countryside feeding from victims, and she goes to Castle Karnstein and back every night. So her faintness is not a permanent state.
Let's just say and leave it at that.The Lanquid state is possibly an act altogether. IN the confrontation with the General she changes demeanor in an instant.
But fact remains the very first time the word is applied to her it's Night and before Carmilla is even seen in Daylight. The first time she's in Daylight Laura says "The Daylight did not diminish her beuty at all" clearly imply no adverse effect what so ever.
Edited by MithrandirOlorin
Re: This example for Aristocrats Are Evil:
The edit reason that went along with the addition justfies the example as follows:
Just as I said earlier, I maintain that the example is invalid for the following reasons:
- The example implies Laura's father or General Spielsdorf could have done something (or done more) to stop the epidemic, but did nothing because they did not really care about the dying peasants. But it's quite unclear what Spielsdorf and Laura's father could or should have done regarding the epidemic. They are not doctors or health officials, nor vampire experts. If they had known that Carmilla was a vampire and responsible for the disease, they presumably would have called on Baron Vordenburg at once; but they didn't know it, and it's not reasonable to expect them to have known. Laura's father certainly did not take Laura's deteriorating health lightly, and yet he was unable to stop her decline; same goes for General Spielsdorf and his niece. They acted the way they did because they did not know better. Their flaw is ignorance, not "evil" or callousness.
Edited by LordGro Let's just say and leave it at that. Hide / Show Replies