Discussion Franchise / MarvelCinematicUniverse

They are really annoying. I believe they should be gone.

I can see how that'd be annoying.

I was thinking about that too. Perhaps it would be better to put What If...? and the animated series in "Other".

How about a separate folder titled "Animated Series"? I think that's a bit more dignified.

Totally reasonable.

Well...remember when I said these needed "rock-solid and reputable" confirms to be added?

Brandon Davis, Charles Murphy, and in a really weird fucking way, Vincent D'onofrio himself have corroborated a three-episode appearance for Fisk in Hawkeye. I'll add it in, but I'll hide it until official word.

EDIT: Or....not. Hmm. For some reason, the character pages are less receptive to the hide command than the rest... Oh well.

But regardless, how would you guys go about this? Like, it's one thing when an actor kinda teases they might be involved, and we have actually used that a lot - still do! - but in this case, he's very, very strongly implying without actually saying anything? On one hand, it's a stronger argument than a tease, but on the other hand, he's going about it in a really weird way than we've never really worked with lol.

We don't add speculation and guesses. Period.

You say period like you guys religiously adhere to it.

I wouldn't be pointing this out if that was even remotely the case...

I wouldn't count our eggs before they hatch. But...maybe...just maybe.

I dunno about that... Now sites cited as reliable sources are reporting that Charlie Cox has already wrapped filming.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm counting the chickens before they even lay the eggs!

That's true. Even if it's just a mere cameo, it'd still be cool.

I haven't seen Daredevil or any of the Netflix TV shows, but seeing a crossover between the two would be incredibly cool. I also have seen a few clips of Vincent D'onofrio as the Kingpin, and I completely understand why people want him to face Spider-Man. Here's hoping!

The showrunner of Helstrom has said that it is not part of the MCU.

https://www.looper.com/263165/why-helstroms-showrunner-is-happy-its-not-part-of-the-mcu-exclusive/

I know (again, more detailed argument on actual Helstrom discussion page). I mean, what are we considering doing about it? It's still listed on the "TV shows not on Disney+" folder and in the character sheets.

In retrospect, I feel like I should clarify for those too lazy to read the argument that I don't think it's a part of the MCU either.

Is there Word of God from someone in the MCU itself? The things said by the showrunner of this show seem like just Word of Saint Paul.

No one else has said anything that I've heard of. There are 3 key factors I would consider for deciding what to do:

1. The showrunner has explicitly stated that it's "not part of the MCU." This, admittedly, could just mean it's not linked to the movie part of the franchise, as most of the show's supporters are getting behind, but I'd like to think he wouldn't be so vague if that were the case.

2. There are no major connections to anything else in the MCU. Even the "forbidden show" referenced the Inhuman outbreak. The only connections here are Roxxon, as well as a whiskey brand and a few newspapers that were created for the other tv shows. These Easter Eggs were probably from when the show was supposed to be a part of the MCU, and either the producers forgot to remove them because they were so insignificantly small, or they were just too lazy to do so (as is likely the reason the Ghost Rider connections were left in).

3. Adventures Into Fear is a Stillborn Franchise, and given this show's darker and satanic themes Disney probably won't let Marvel follow up on it or any of the characters elsewhere.

Given points 2 and 3, I could see it as part of the MCU, but wouldn't think much would be lost if it wasn't. I'd depend on an official statement to decide, and while the showrunner may sound more like Word of Saint Paul he's still the closest to Word of God we have. The Marvel wiki has already siloed Helstrom off as "Earth-trn836," and it's probably only a matter of time before Wikipedia boots it. I say we go ahead and follow suit. And hey, we can always put everything back if it turns out that's horribly wrong!

Let's not forget that a franchise is one thing, a shared universe is another, and a work of fiction may still be part of a franchise even if it's not set in the same fictional universe (if there is such a thing to begin with, which is not mandatory). Wikipedia defines it this way: "A franchisor licenses its know-how, procedures, intellectual property, use of its business model, brand, and rights to sell its branded products and services to a franchisee. In return the franchisee pays certain fees and agrees to comply with certain obligations, typically set out in a Franchise Agreement." If we go with that definition, yes, Helstrom would be part of the franchise.

As for the universe... if there is a multiverse, and the MCU universe and the Earth-trn836 universe are both part of it, then that should be the franchise's Shared Universe.

Oh. …Well, I only made this account a few days ago, so this all just goes to show what little I know. Should I just put a little note next to Helstrom down in the TV shows folder, saying the showrunner stated it's not part of the Earth-199999 MCU? Do we keep the show's character sheets in the main character index, or silo them off at the bottom? Should I have just waited a month or so to see what the general consensus actually settled as before raising this subject, rather than only 12 days after the show released?

Is my organization-obsessed brain massively overcomplicating this, and worrying about nothing?

Also, wouldn't it technically be a part of the general Marvel franchise? Work on Helstrom was done by Marvel Television and finished by Marvel Studios, yes, but so is the MODOK series, and that's definitely not in the MCU franchise. What exactly qualifies as part of the MCU as a franchise, rather than the MCU as a shared universe (that is also just one reality in a multiverse), and what counts as part of a franchise when it's just a sub-franchise to something even bigger?

A bit late but I noticed that too. I remember ALL of the movies having Nightmare Fuel pages.

Hi, sorry I'm late here. The reason why all many Nightmare Fuel pages were removed were because some people thought most of the content on those pages were either Fridge or ZCE. They also heavily scrubbed the NF pages on Infinity War and Endgame for the same reason. I personally disagree with that decision, but I don't think there's anything we can do about it.

Also popping in to say that Rob Liefeld is NOT part of conversations with Marvel Studios in any way, shape or form, and he can be safely ignored. Another Deadpool movie is absolutely happening, although it has yet to be confirmed to be MCU.

Keep the current order, by network and year of release. Ammount of conection to the rest of the films is not a measurable criteria.

So far nothing actually has been announced, no production has commenced on any Disney Plus show, and I have mentioned elsewhere about the problem of people making pages for shows in development which might or might not happen or pan out. Basically until the first poster or trailer..."pix or it didn't happen".

Once the shows come out for real, I think you can move stuff back and forth and so on.

Honestly, I think the order should be changed to alphabetical order. So it would be:

• ABC series
• Disney+ series
• Freeform series
• Hulu series
• Netflix series
• Other series (unknown network):
• Cancelled Projects:

I don't think it should be changed based on what OP said though.

Bit late to the party here; sorry. I prefer the networks in chronological order instead of alphabetical: ABC, Netflix, Hulu, Freeform, Disney+. But I'm aware there are potential problems in regards to adding later shows, like the supernatural horror stuff coming to Hulu and being grouped with Runaways above Cloak and Dagger and possibly the Disney+ stuff. Maybe drop the grouping by networks and just have a single list? But then again, same-network shows are usually related and it's useful to group them together...

All of them are canon until the movies say otherwise (which they haven't up to this point). The shows are definitely set in the MCU so until Marvel says that they're splitting them into two different franchises they should stay on this page.

Also, the stuff that happens in the movies still affect the shows such as a Wakanda Outreach centre showing up in Runaways.

As a rule, Feige likes freedom of movement and not committing one way or the other. So he's never explicitly said that the TV shows are not canon or whatnot. Essentially it's Expanded Universe which is basically an unequal situation where the movies can ignore them as canon, but the latter have to treat the movies as canon.

In either case, listing it here under Mediums and TV shows is fine. The real problem will come when Disney Plus arrives because those are directly under Feige and he is selling them as actual in-story continuation of movies. So then you might get definite statements.

Well, that's a matter for another day. As of right now, Marvel and Disney consider them one franchise, and so should we.

http://screencrush.com/kevin-feige-on-x-men-in-mcu/

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/979240/Fantastic-Four-MCU-movie-Avengers-4-Ant-Man-and-The-Wasp-director-Peyton-Reed

I just thought to add it since Disney is now 100% officially buying Fox and they've spoken about the possibilities.

I still feel like this is jumping the gun 'just' a bit.

This isn't me doubting that Marvel wants to do this, I just feel like it's still slightly too early to put them in the "planned installments" category.

I think until they have official plans they should be left off. Otherwise we could list any potential movie we want.

Mostly yes, they're real costumes; but sometimes no. Depends on the costume. I know that Chris Hemsworth's was real, but Cate Blanchett's was partly CGI. You'll probably have to research it for every costume to find out.

Short answer: The first one. Sometimes they're real.

Long answer: It's varies a TON. Tom Holland has worn real versions of the "hoodie" & "Karen" Spidey suits, but the "Iron Spider" suit is entirely CGI.

Presumably they just disagreed with the entry. That big an entry shouldn't have been deleted with no reason.

This is the second time he's done so, so it counts as an edit war and I've reported it to Ask The Tropers.

Things changed in the second half.

I think we should wait to see how they're presented when they reappear, considering we don't know how they'll actually act or be presented in the future. If when the characters come back they're more heroic or sympathetic than their comics counterparts, then it would be Adaptational Heroism.

It appears that in the MCU, HYDRA is indeed spelled with all capitals. Wikipedia spells it with just the "H" capitalized; but the MCU wiki, general Marvel wiki, and most sources I can find spell it "HYDRA".

You're right that it's not an acronym though.

None of those sources are official though, are they? Just asking in general, not trying to question your evidence.

No, they're not, but neither is the Marvel Universe page, with regards to the MCU.

However, it appears that you are right; there's an Ao S episode titled "Love in the Time of Hydra".

Oh, I thought everything that applied to the Marvel Universe also applies to the MCU, unless otherwise stated. Like, if, for example, a character's birth date is never stated in the MCU, we just assume it's the same as in the comics.

But if something in the MCU contradicts what's in the comics, it's something that's one way in the comics but another way in the MCU. I hope I explained that well.

No, because that doesn't make any sense. For example, there a lot of heroes who don't exist yet in the MCU, because their movies haven't come out. We don't assume they exist unless they actually show up in an MCU-canon medium.

You're right in this case anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

It seems that troper KINGOFCHEESE added her to the list sometime ago. I do remember seeing a few articles online which rumored that Marvel was working on a New Warriors TV show with Squirrel Girl as one of the main protagonists, but I don't think anything official has been confirmed by anyone within Marvel.

Image changes are handled on the Image Pickin subforum, not on Discussion pages. You're more likely to get a response that way, at that.

Also, if you see a mod message saying not to change an image, I really wouldn't advise removing the message and changing the image anyway...

Subforum is broken due to upgrades.

Otherwise that's completely fair, my apologies.

I'd imagine there aren't film examples on the page because there aren't a lot of film franchises long enough or with enough characters for the trope to apply. I think you could make a case for this example though.

I think so as well.

The latter. The former is simply unnecessary waste of markup space.

Methinks you'll have more success when asking in one of the media threads in the forums.

Well, Work Pages Are A Free Launch, so I say at once.

Nope.