I think it might make sense to breakout the books by series (original, prequel/sequel, guild houses, etc) but keep example in one folder for a series. The various adaptations and games should each probably keep their separate sections.
Commissar
Maybe it's just the tyranny of predestination caused by the spice, but on reflection, Paul Muad'ib is really starting to seem like an unrepentant Complete Monster to me. He seems to fit all five of the prerequisites by the time of Dune Messiah. His Second Crusade is unapologetically presented as downright genocidal. He has provoked the fear and revulsion of even many of his strongest supporters among the Fremen. There's no Freudian Excuse offered or implied. Muad'ib does this of his own volition. There's no regret or remorse for any of his actions either. The only count that he even seems to not fit is redemption.
I think it at least warrants being placed on the YMMV tab.
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He acknowledges, as does Leto II, that he is likely to be seen as a Complete Monster, but the story is from his POV and paints him as sympathetic, not to mention trapped by his powers of prophecy. So it doesn't even remotely apply.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
A respectable part of the Dune series is devoted to how some characters will be remembered and how deserved that reputation will be. Yueh was a reluctant traitor, but was painted in history as a vile, willing backstabber. Nayla was actually one of the God-Emperor's most ardent and devoted believers, and also got a Judas-like treatment from history.
If there are any tropes here, that only apply to the Lynch adaptation or the miniseries, we should make separate pages for those works and list them there. The same goes for other Dune-related media, including the various computer games. I think it would be the best solution, since we've already established this page should deal primarily with the books, not the adaptations. Just my two cents.
Previous tropers went kind of crazy putting it Spoiler tags, often on things that weren't really spoilers. I have deleted all of the spoilers on the first three books as per the statute of limitations in our Handling Spoilers policy (Children of Dune appeared 35 years ago).
Regarding the term "Melange", the article states that Spice IS NOT called Melange in the books, but this is untrue. On one of the very first pages of Messiah, a guild navigator is said to take a "melange pill", which quite obviously isn't a reference to what the pill smells like.
Lost in Space
On my recent cleanup of this article, I'd like to make sure that my purpose is clear. First, all the crap and vitriol around the Brian/Anderson books may or may not be deserved, but it makes the article itself look like a bunch of whiny kids Complaining About Shows You Dont Like. Let's just cut it and keep the page to the facts: What tropes were used, and why.
Second, we need to keep this page to a manageable size. It's nearing the point where we need some kind of split just to allow browsers on slow computers (like mine) to read the page.
I'll pick up (from I/J) when I have the chance.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Lost in Space
Claiming Dune is You Fail Biology Forever is blatantly false. The ecology of Dune is extensively described in the novel and its appendices. If you happen to hold a Ph.D. in xenobiology, go ahead and have at debunking it. But you don't get to claim You Fail X Forever unless there are blatant factual errors in the story. I don't care if you're trying to start a new trope or not; that's what YKTTW is for. If you want to bitch about it, Take It To The Forums. And anyway, I am not Fast Eddie.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!" Hide / Show Replies
Don't want to bitch. The TV version is impossible, however. What I said the reasons given stands on its own. But, for the sake of peace, I will hereby cease and desist. The tone notwithstanding, TV Tropes are more about fun and cameraderie than anything else.
Greetings in peace
Einar ósiður
Well, for one thing, you didn't actually explain why it fails biology/ecology. You might at least give a reason instead of just stating it and expecting us to take it at face value. And while I haven't watched the TV series (largely due to Hype Aversion), the books are canon and this article primarily references them, not the shows or movie.
A suggestion: if you want to soft split the page and list tropes applicable specifically to each publication genre, that would work very well; it's been done before.
Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
PS: I wasn't really trying to start a new trope (I did read the manual), but lots of people seem introduce new tropes this way, waiting for someone to fill up. You're not Fast Eddie, but I'm sure he thinks he's doing the right thing as well. I didn't come here for enmity, just, as it says on my User Page, I thought I could contribute. And I actually have, if non-deleted entries count.
Don't try to insult someone you've never seen, as in ,e.g., "If you happen to hold a Ph.D. in xenobiology, go ahead and have at debunking it", but just talk.
I'm thick-skinned enough to take whatever you say.
However, please, never do what I'm guilty of, namely editing something without a given reason.
So, that was it. I see on your User's Page that you should be fairly mature, so failed sarcasms like the above shouldn't really be necessary - they fall on deaf eras. Give your son a kiss (or hug) from me. And don't bitch. :-)
Fair points. The issue here is that the wiki is supposed to remain as objective as reasonably possible given its goal. Adding tropes like "You Fail X Forever", Discontinuity, "Crowning Moment of X", Plot Induced Stupidity, etc., must be done carefully and with due consideration for the likelihood of spawning Natter or the dreaded Edit War. It's not censorship, it's exercising the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement: controversial and subjective trope examples are likely to be cut from the main page so we appear to the casual viewer as reasonably unbiased.
In short, it's fine to add factual tropes. Subjective Tropes, on the other hand, should not be arbitrarily added to a page unless there's ample support from the community and the poster should be prepared to defend his point of view; otherwise Wiki Magic will come along and delete it.
My snark, if you call it that, comes from frustration; if someone cuts what you wrote, don't just arbitrarily add it back, discuss it first. It means that there's a difference of opinion likely to result in an Edit War.
Edited by Fighteer "It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Thanks.
I've been party to Edit Wars. They are rarely constructive, but can serve the purpose of driving the lunatics out. As for discussion, people here don't seem inclined to answer their pm's and, well, they do better on discussion pages, but not nearly well enough by a long shot.
And as to the topic of Dune, as mentioned, I will not meddle again.
All the best
Does anyone think that making the Dune books into separate pages was a bad idea? Most of the sub-pages for the individual books are just repeats of the same shared tropes, now with extra folder hassle.
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