Discussion Fanfic / WeightOfTheWorld

Yes, she is. I believe she said so in her All That Remains fanfiction.

Edited by TeamJuniperLives

I think we should wait a couple chapters before discussing this. The sacrifice literally just happened in the last paragraph of the latest chapter. More information might come up to give context for a proper entry.

Edit: Spoiler tags still are not working and we cannot discuss what happened without spoilers so yeah, we might want to wait a bit.

Edited by EmeraldSky

Okay. We'll give it a couple weeks.

Edited by DarthRevansNeighbor

With the recent chapter, I mentioned it under Stupid Sacrifice since it was acknowledged in-universe that she did not have Aura while her protectorate had Aura and what she did was foolish.

I agree. It looks rather hideous. Maybe The Depths of Deception spoilers in General should be left unmarked too. A significant amount of the blocky spoilers in General are from that book.

You're right. I didn't realize so many were from The Depths of Deception. The Does This Remind You of Anything? entries are particularly bad. Yeah, The Depths of Deception is a good cut-off point for unmarked spoilers in the General folder. I'll clean it up and put a new warning.

Edit: The Does This Remind You of Anything? entry is pretty long. Should it get its own page?

Edited by EmeraldSky

I don't think Does This Remind You of Anything? ever gets its own page for works. Maybe adjust it to make it shorter?

Edited by TeamJuniperLives

Wrong reply. Wrong discussion. Wrong site. Ugh, I need sleep.

Edit: At least it wasn't entirely irrelevant, kind of? To be honest, I would end up butchering the Does This Remind You of Anything? entries. I really dislike the sexual assault entries.

Edited by TeamJuniperLives

I've done that before.

I don't like that interpretation either but I'll try my hand at altering them so they're shorter.

Edit: Looking at the entry I honestly don't know how to proceed. Anyone else want to try?

Edited by EmeraldSky

Can I delete my shame?

Discussion posts cannot be deleted, only edited. So no.

Rats.

I've looked at all the Does This Remind You of Anything? pages and none of them have subpages for specific works so the entries should stay on the main Weight of the World page.

I can't think of how to shorten it either. The summaries explain the interpretation but they're long and cumbersome.

Okay, so here's the entire entry:

(Edit: Spoiler tagging is not working. This post contains spoilers. Beware.)

• Does This Remind You of Anything?:
  • After being abused in multiple relationships, America finally chooses to trust Japan and activates his Aura, only for England to come in and berate him for doing so. This makes America think England is disgusted with him for what happened on Remnant. Even though America had no choice and could only give his Questionable Consent to become Vale, he doubts himself, thinking he might be the type of person who "wanted it" ^note  (In reference to his Chronic Hero Syndrome and Vale's power.) and blaming himself, coming to the conclusion he might deserve England's disgust.
  • America's therapy session where he discusses the whole Vale situation. A foreign soul was forced into America's body without his consent. He blames himself for giving in and offering up everything, including his organs in exchange for his brother's safety, and "letting" Ironwood and Atlas' men use his body ^note  to put Vale's Aura into against his will.
  • Greenlee (the Atlas soldier stationed on Earth)further compounds this by saying America should be honored and grateful that Atlas and Ironwood chose him to become Vale.
  • There is a part of America that England does not like.^note  (Vale) He tricks America into agreeing to do something that will "fix" that problem, wording it in a way that makes America think he won't be changed. Before England can try to "fix" him, America finds out the truth and tries to run. England holds America down as he screams and begs England not to do it. ^note  (The ritual.) Whether this is an allusion to a family member wanting to get rid of a Split Personality, attempted Cure Your Gays, Attempted Rape, or an attempted Lobotomy is up to interpretation.
  • Russia tricks America into activating his Aura. America has amnesia and no clue about their prior history or Russia's darker side, only experiencing a few interactions with Russia where the other nation acts like they're good friends. They are also in the middle of a stressful situation when Russia insists, implying America is stupid or useless if he does not agree. It is also implied Russia is laying on top of America as he makes his "request". ^note  America is described as on the ground when he "rolls out of the way and drags Russia with him" and they do not change positions until Russia stands up after his Aura is activated. America clearly does not want to but feels he has no other choice so he reluctantly gives in. If America had his memories, he never would have agreed to do it. England is furious when he finds out what happened and confronts Russia afterward, threatening to kill him if he tries something like that again.
    England: You took advantage of his naivety and the situation to make him do something he would never do normally! You simply waited until the situation seemed desperate to egg America into "assisting" you.
    Russia (unashamed): Perhaps.
  • The symbolism continues in The Atrocities of Atlas. The ex-Atlas soldier paralyzes America and holds him face-down and bent over a table while torturing him. He stands behind America and leans against him while cutting off his shirt and slowly slicing his skin. ^note  Because of the way America is chained up, this is arguably the only way the soldier can easily position himself and America while cutting his back. America closes his eyes and tries to distract himself from what his happening to him without success. He also mentally declares his hatred of his attacker and wishes him dead. Once the soldier is done ^note  carving "SACRIFICE" into America’s back and left, America struggles not to cry and tries to cover the injuries with his ripped shirt. He realizes the wound isn't healing and may be a permanent scar, leaving him horrified and ashamed. It's implied the soldier purposely crafted this kind of scenario to terrify America for the hell of it and get revenge for America making him lose his position in the Atlas Military.
  • America is knocked out by a soldier. When he wakes up, he is undressed, in considerable pain, and can barely walk. He hobbles to the shower, leaving drops of blood behind him and washes himself off. When he exits the shower, two guards come in. One of the guards attacks him, bloodying him up, and he does not bother defending himself during the assault. The perpetrators then shove him back into the shower, washing the evidence away. America tries to stand up but the Ax-Crazy soldier holds him down, saying he likes America better on his knees.
  • After America escapes, the ex-soldier catches him again and taunts him about their "bond" and how the scars he gave America will mark him forever. The soldier slowly rips off America's shirt with a knife, pins him down and lays on top of him, runs his hands over America's skin to mess with him, and presses down on his wounds to inflict pain. America is too terrified to realize he can fight back and simply lays there, letting the soldier grope and torment him. When the tip of the ex-soldier's knife stabs America in the shoulder, he fights him off and blasts the man to ashes before breaking down into traumatized sobbing. He blames himself for not trying to stop the ex-soldier sooner and attempts to hide the scars from Penny, feeling ashamed of them. The above three scenes play out painfully similar to rape and/or Attempted Rape and the victim's traumatized reaction to it.
  • America ran away from his older brother, was captured, escaped, and is alone in a new world. He implicitly trusts Penny 2.0 (the only "friend" he has at the moment) despite her unsettling and suspicious mannerisms. He brushes off the older and warier Amber/Vale's warnings that Penny 2.0 isn't his friend and cannot be trusted. Penny 2.0 is very concerned with America being "undamaged". She knowingly leads America into a trap concocted by her and Ironwood, where he is presumably meant to be captured and given to Atlas. And then there are all the other people in Atlas who have gone missing... The Runaway and Human Trafficking, anyone?
  • When America confronts Ironwood, it plays out much like an abuse victim confronting their abuser. Ironwood tries to get America to go with him, blaming him for fighting back and getting hurt, subtly manipulating him and insinuating America is a bad person if he doesn't do what he wants. America knows what his enemy is doing but can't help but doubt himself. He gathers his resolve and fights Ironwood, which ends with his enemy restraining him and grabbing his wounds, making America scream. Ironwood sees what the ex-soldier did to America and realizes what he is doing. He temporarily releases America but changes his mind. He ignores his morals and restrains America again, beating him up and preparing to shoot him in the head. This causes Penny 2.0 to see Ironwood is a bad person and she rescues America, fleeing with him.
  • After escaping captivity, America is attacked by a soldier who has been hunting him for months and purposely lured him into a trap. He runs into Winter (another soldier) and pleads with her not to take him back to his captors. Penny explains that a soldier attacked America and Winter agrees not to arrest him, instead opening up her home to him. America is jumpy and nervous when his rescuer locks the door behind him. He refuses medical assistance for his injuries and pulls his jacket tighter around himself in an attempt to keep his rescuer from noticing his wounds. When his rescuer questions him, he admits the soldier had him before that day's attack but never attacked him like "that". His attacker had his men "do everything". America refuses to give the names of who attacked him and panics when he realizes his rescuer is writing a report on the incident, begging her not to tell anyone. He reveals his attacker has been watching him for a while and he was captured after he had an argument with his family and ran off. He again refuses to share who attacked him because he fears his rescuer will not believe him. It is his word against Ironwood's. When his rescuer continues to press him for answers he requests a shower and retreats into the bathroom. He viciously scrubs at his skin and tries to hide as much skin under his clothes as possible, afraid that she will see his injuries. He also says that he can't go home when he's "like this."
    • In summary, the way Atlas and her cohorts treat America can be summed up as one huge metaphor for being kidnapped, trafficked, and trapped in a sexually, psychologically, and physically abusive relationship.
  • Jaune asks America if he can try to heal his scars. America doesn't want him to but thinks he should let him so he reluctantly agrees. He stands quietly as Jaune's Aura coats his back, becoming more and more uncomfortable and panicked, but forces himself to hide it. Eventually his traumatic memories become too much and America begs Jaune to stop. Jaune is so focused on his task he does not notice, and keeps trying to heal America until he gasps in pain and flinches away. Jaune finally sees how terrified America is and is overcome by guilt, apologizing immediately.

As you said, long and cumbersome. What details can we leave out?

Edited by EmeraldSky

I think the England and Russia quotes can go. They do not add context that has not already been said. The note about America and Russia's positions can be taken out too because it's clear in-story that Russia is pinning him to the ground. It does not require an explanation.

Okay, that's a start. Many of the sections in parenthesis can go too. This entry is about what it reminds readers of, not a summary of what happens in story. For example, here's one of the entries without the notes and with some rewording:

• There is a part of America that England does not like. He tricks America into agreeing to do something that will "fix" that problem, wording it in a way that makes America think it will help him. Before England can try to "fix" him, America finds out the truth and tries to run. England holds America down as he screams and begs England not to do it. Whether this is an allusion to a family member's desire get rid of a Split Personality, attempted Cure Your Gays, Attempted Rape, or an attempted Lobotomy is up to interpretation.

I think it can be made even shorter.

• England's attempts to trick America into performing the severance ritual and his actions when America finds out the truth and refuses are reminiscent of a family member's desire to get rid of a Split Personality, their attempt to Cure Your Gays, Attempted Rape, or a non-consensual attempt to Lobotomize someone depending on your interpretation.

Short(er) and to the point.

That's pretty good. How about we do a format?

A short explanation of what the scene is. The reminder, which should be blunt and direct instead of beating around the bush with vague phrasing. A lot of these entries are too vague and hide the tropes they're reminded of text instead of saying what they are referring to.

It's simple but it should help shorten the entry.

Example:

• Jaune's failed attempt to heal America's scars is comparable to a Near-Rape Experience where one partner does not want sex and the other does not notice until the scared partner starts crying and trying to pull away. This includes America's quiet pleas for Jaune to stop, which Jaune accidentally ignores until America screams in pain.

Sidenote: I personally hate this kind of interpretation but I'll try to be mature about it. No Prudishness and all that.

Good idea. Here's another one.

• The scene where Winter takes America into her home is reminiscent of a kidnapped Runaway Teen being taken in by a Reasonable Authority Figure and the investigative questions that follow. America refuses to share his story, partially out of fear that Winter will never believe him over Ironwood. America's secretiveness, dialogue, and actions (such as viciously scrubbing his skin and his self-disgust) could easily allude to him having been raped with a few minor tweaks.

I think that one was the biggest offender for summarizing. Good job. Do you mind if I copy your entries to replace the old ones?

I believe this one can just be shortened to this:

• When America confronts Ironwood, it plays out much like an abuse victim confronting their abuser. Ironwood tries to get America to go with him, blaming him for fighting back and getting hurt, subtly manipulating him and insinuating America is a bad person if he doesn't do what he wants.

Go right ahead. That is what they are there for.

• The entire sequence where the ex-soldier tortures America is is disturbingly comparable to a rape scene, complete with the soldier shoving America face-down over a table and pressing his body against his.

• America is knocked out by a soldier. He wakes up naked, in considerable pain, and leaves drops of blood behind as he walks. When he exits the shower, two guards come in and attack him, forcing him down onto his knees. The scene plays out like the aftermath and lead-up to another sexual assault, as several readers have noted.

(Should I mention that some readers genuinely thought America had been/was going to be raped? It was a WMG on here, right?)

• The ex-soldier catches America again and taunts him about their "bond". The soldier rips off America's shirt, pins him down and lays on top of him, and runs his hands over America's skin. America has no intention of fighting back and simply lays there, letting the soldier grope and torment him. When the soldier makes to stab him, America finally fights him off and kills his attacker before breaking down into traumatized sobbing. America blames himself for not trying to stop the ex-soldier sooner is deeply ashamed. The above three scenes play out painfully similar to rape and/or Attempted Rape and the victim's traumatized reaction to it.

Is that all of them?

I'd say leave that out of it. The wording is fine the way it is. I think that's all of them so I'll go edit the entries. Thanks for the help!

Edit: Whoopsie. We missed a few. It's an improvement, at least.

Edited by EmeraldSky

Which ones did we forget?

The Japan one, the therapy one, and the Russia one. I've got this.

• England's disgusted reaction to America activating Japan's Aura and his snide comments that America will "do that with anyone" brings Slut-Shaming to mind. America's resulting shame and questions whether his friendly personality led to him "practically asking" to become Vale (despite his blatant Questionable Consent) adds a dose of alluded Victim-Blaming to the mix.
• The therapy session is one huge metaphor for a therapist helping their client realize they did not give their consent (because agreeing only because they are trapped and the other party won't take "no" for an answer is not consent), accepting they were in fact raped, and they did nothing to deserve being assaulted.
• Russia's successful attempt to force America to activate his Aura is reminiscent of someone using manipulation and physical force to pressure a drugged person into having sex with them.

I think the entry is fine. Look at the way Winter acts as Penny talks to her and afterward. Her skin goes pale and she is uncomfortable, like she does not know how to handle the situation. She's also oddly lenient and understanding. If she only thought a soldier physically attacked America, why would she be so hesitant and careful (maybe even compassionate)? She is normally more cold and aloof to people.

Edited by TeamJuniperLives

She is a proud soldier of Atlas too. Hearing that a fellow soldier cruelly attacked an innocent probably shook her. She said it herself: Soldiers are supposed to help and protect people, not hurt them.

I believe it's heavily implied enough to put as an entry. It's practically an in-universe Does This Remind You of Anything? for Winter. You have to remember what limited information Penny told her:

• Alfred was captured. (Kidnapping)
• He was kept in a basement.
• The soldier has been following him for a while. (Stalker with a Crush)
• The soldier attacked him after he refused to go with the soldier. (If I Can't Have You…)
• The soldier restrained him and looked under his shirt. America says he should be used to it by now. (Attempted Rape with Rape as Backstory sprinkled in)

Then there's Winter's reactions: She has a horrified expression (that she covers up) when Penny vaguely tells her what happened. Her voice is described as "off-sounding" when she confirms that Penny explained the situation and she is going to help America. She grimaces and looks pained when America mentions he should be used to people looking under his shirt. Then there's the questions and responses:

• "Are you in pain? Do you need medical [assistance]?"
• "If I may ask, has this soldier attacked you before today?"
• "Would you be willing to identify him and his partners?"
• In response to America refusing to identify them: (unhappily) "That is your decision."
• "If you tell me who was involved they will be arrested—"
• "Although I would like to file a report and call a squad to arrest your attackers, I understand the situation is more complicated than that. I am willing to adjust normal protocols for the time being. My superior would understand."
• "I know I am a soldier and your recent... encounters with them have put them in a bad light, but I only wish to bring them to justice. I am also willing to be off the record. If you simply want a nonjudgmental ear to talk to, I am willing to listen."

Yes, all of that could refer to a physical attack rather than rape/Attempted Rape but honestly Winter's responses melds more with her believing the latter. Plus Rule of Drama.

Edited by DarthRevansNeighbor

You have convinced me the entry should stay but I still think this sentence is too speculative and should go under WMG: Winter's subsequent actions and questions heavily imply she thinks he was stalked, kidnapped, imprisoned, and possibly gang raped by soldiers.

We do not know what Winter is thinking.

Consider it Downplayed and Implied, then.

Okay. You have convinced me. I will add Downplayed and Implied to the entry since it is not blatant text. I swear we come up with sicker stuff than the author ever could...

Spoiler tags apparently do not work on Discussion pages. Sorry about that.

And edits still don't save. *sighs*

I would lean towards Even Evil Has Standards at this time. Ironwood's alignment may be murky but he appears to have sided with Atlas over everyone else. He does not object to Alfred's dissection except when the scientist does it without being ordered. He ruthlessly tries to capture America, beats him up, and intends to shoot him. The only time he shows a disgusted reaction (after he's fully sided with Atlas) is when he sees the Ax-Crazy soldier tortured America. Thus, the Standard.

I'll put it under Even Evil Has Standards then.

America certainly is not a Celibate Hero because a Celibate Hero is a person who actively rejects romantic relationships or sex. For example, as a part of a Heroic Vow. By default, America is not a Celibate Hero because there is no romantic arc for him to reject. There is also no indication that he's dismissive of romance because he is busy being a hero or something.

No Hugging, No Kissing is also out. The series does not have much romance but there is Hugging and Kissing with Pyrrha and Jaune. They are leads in a relationship that happens onscreen so the trope doesn't apply. In the author's words "Don't expect romance except for the plot-required norm (aka Pyrrha likes Jaune, etc.). I can't write romance and I'm not going to try. Expect family relationships and friendships abound. (Seriously, whenever I try to intentionally write a pairing it's horrible. :P)". So it could be that America simply does not have a love interest.

That being said, it is true he is not interested in a relationship and has none of the expected or cliche reactions to the gender(s) he may be interested in. No blushing, no awkwardness, and it is clear he is not oblivious to others' Innuendos. Another example for comparison is when Jaune blushes when Nora says he and Ren "don't have to behave". America notices the Innuendo and does not care. Americacould be Asexual in this fic. It is difficult to tell unless it is clearly stated in the work or by Word of God. Until then, America's possible Asexuality is unconfirmed and might go under Alternative Character Interpretation or WMG.

Could his Asexuality be considered Downplayed or Implied? One of the Downplayed examples states"Alice is not outright asexual, but she doesn't seem to be sexually attracted to other people and shows very little interest in sex in general." like how America acts. Even Ruby shows interest in romantic relationships during the boyfriend discussion after RWBY and JNPR meet America and Canada.

That is true. Again, it is difficult to say because it is hard to showcase a lack of attraction. You can probably put it as Implied if you want. That being said, the author answers questions for the story on Archive of Our Own. You could ask there for confirmation.

I am going to ask. Wish me luck.

The author confirmed America is Asexual here.

The links was fine in the editor. What gives?

There is a bug in discussions at the moment. That is why the links are not working. They are working on fixing it. Remove the TV Tropes and additional symbols and the link works.

Since Americas Asexuality is confirmed, you can add it as a trope.