Hi, guy who removed the entry here.
In the quest given by Demeter "The Bull God's Lineage" Baal claims that the Nahobino has the divinity of the bull god, making him fitting to fuse with Baal. His exact words are "You posess the right, no, the divinity, to rule. The divinity of the bull god in inherit Baal". As for Zeus, while it's not his main symbol like the thunderbolt or eagle, bulls are similarly used as one of his symbols, and in the series has a meta connection between him and Baal in a similar way that Apocalypse connected Dagda and Odin or Danu and Inanna. Susano-o himself, through his connections/conflation with to Gozu-Tennou, the "Bull-Headed King of Heaven", is also considered a bull god. Both Baal and Zeus mention that they don't have their knowledge but that that they're still compatible.
What's more, the developers have mentioned in interviews for Vengeance that they wanted it to contrast the Canon of Creation, which focuses on the bull god, with a story based on the snake god in the Canon of Vengeance
Edited by FlamingLaevatein
Tecno Master
Apparently the protagonist does have a canon name (kind of):Kei Amemura, as shown by this tweet https://x.com/scrambledfaz/status/1762163041947303970?s=61
. From what the guy said he got this name when he used a mod to skip the naming process. Should it be included?
Can't seem to find Idun entry anywhere, even on other SMT entries. Does anyone have any idea where she is? Should I add an entry for her character in case it hasn't existed yet?
Is the fact that Lucifer uses some of the Demi-Fiend's Signature Moves worth noting?
Edited by InvisibleWater Hide / Show Replies
Yes, they are Demi-Fiend's signature moves for a reason. It's similar to how in SMT IV, Sanat (who is considered a high ranking Chaos demon, contrasted with Ancient of Days, an avatar of God), also has his signature moves (specifically Deadly Fury and Gaea Rage), so you can consider it a Call-Back or a Mythology Gag, I suppose.
Don't worry about things. Life is cheap.
Fellow Troper
Question: does Tao's status as Goddess of Creation, Panagia Tao really warrant her Unmarked Spoilers status? Some of the other characters (especially Koshimizu and Lucifer) are practically walls of spoilers and they don't warrant it.
As far as I am aware, the Unmarked Spoilers are given to characters whose sole existence is a spoiler. For example, just the mere fact of knowing Satan and YHVH are around in Apocalypse is a franchise-wide Wham Episode given neither of them have been relevant and appear with those names for 20 years. Tao, as far as I see, doesn't warrant such level of Walking Spoiler status. May I ask for an explanation why she is given the treatment?
Don't worry about things. Life is cheap.
"No citation"
Who's doing this? For the most part, someone's tagging the tropes like "custom uniform" and "bishounen" with %no citation. That makes no damn sense, these are visual tropes. The citation is the already released Japanese trailers showing this to be the case. Many of them have also been uploaded to ATLUS West's account, with English subs.
It's weird to say that the protagonist has "no citation" for being bishounen when... I mean, just look at him! He's such a prettyboy that some people wondered if he was actually a girl when he was first revealed - and it only gets more extreme from there, as when he fuses with the Aogami, his hair gets much longer.
Sorry some of the characters in this game lean towards androgeny, I guess. Please deal with it.
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Let's not even get into "blade below the shoulder" being tagged no citation... The protagonist's lazer blade has been shown very clearly in gameplay videos, both Japanese showcases, and the Treehouse gameplay demo (with live translation to English).
He summons it (a blade of light from his fingertips, just like the trope listing says) during battle for Melee attacks. We *know* this, we've *seen* this. What more citation could you possibly need?
TvTropes has recently implemented a guideline about unreleased works that any examples listed on the pages before release needs to have a citation where it is noticed/apparent. And since SMTV is still an unreleased game, any tropes about it should be sourced to something, even if it is something like character appearance tropes since it is possible for characters to get redesigned before the release.
Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!
Honestly, the Character page should be locked until the game gets released. I feel like there's an edit war on the horizon.
We're about four months away from release. While some details may still change, I would argue it's unlikely for them to. At the very least not for the characters they've felt comfortable releasing renders for.
So, I believe that a lot of these examples fit within "troping what is likely to happen", as the top of the page (commented out) mentions. The protagonist's design in particular has been fairly stable since the 2017 announcement trailer, where we see him from behind.
So while it's possible for them to change, it's unlikley, right? Doesn't that mean that listing appearence tropes is, in fact "troping what is likely to happen"?
It's absurd to look at a character with an androgynous design and go "yeah but there's no citation for him being androgynous" - the citation is my eyes.
If it turns out some elements *do* end up getting changed, can't we just move them to the trivia page as a beta element? For now, it seems *likely* that this stuff is included.
(As an additional [sigh] inducing thing to point out - The Protagonist's image on the character page literally shows the laser blade emerging from his hands. Why is it that pointing out that the blade is there requires some "citation", but the image showing it's there is presumed to be fine? Is it because his design is unlikely to change? Huh, weird. That's what I thought.)
Edited by mads_in_zero
Again, the Character page should be locked before an Edit war starts or the mods come down and lock it themselves. No offense mads, but at this rate, you and Chytus will just be going back and forth between hiding and unhiding it.
Mads, regardless of the policy, you’re now edit warring. Please stop deleting the commenting out notes, or you may possibly be suspended.
So I made an entry in the Nahobino folder regarding Ambiguous Situation. It was removed by Flaming Laevatein, the removal reason being:
"Koshimizu wondering how Aogami and the protagonist fused into a nahobino was due to his belief that the condemnation was still in place, which ensured any that attempted to become nahobino would be diminished into miman. Additionally a demon cannot become a Nahobino without finding a compatible human who has their knowledge, and both Zeus and Baal seek out the Nahobino because he specifically has the knowledge of a bull god, a connection between them and Susano-o which they believed would be sufficient to ascend themselves."
The miman part I get, but where in the game does it state the protagonist has the Knowledge of a "Bull God"? Is it in the game or in a supplementary material I don't know about??
Edited by WorstOtakuEver Hide / Show Replies