Yeah, I don't think OHW has any issues, so I won't protest if it's removed from the list.
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All right, removed citing this discussion.
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The entry for Video Game Settings compares Green Hill Zone to Ghibli Hills, though the latter is different since it's specifically about nature contrasting with human-developed areas.
edit: or maybe not? Some of the examples on the Ghibli Hills page fit the definition but others don't.
Edited by N1KF Hide / Show Replies
I don't think Green Hill Zone should even be included here (or Video Game Settings as a whole, but meh), as it's about grassland levels in video games used to introduce players to the games. Ghibli Hills is broader, and focuses on the lush nature of the areas and how it settles the atmosphere of the work's setting.
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I'm helping!
- Character Filibuster, predictably enough, gets used for characters who filibuster in-universe; but that's actually the trope Holding the Floor. Character Filibuster is a complicated construction where a story is set up so that a character can be Holding the Floor for an unrealistic time in order to deliver an Author Filibuster. That probably shouldn't be a distinct trope.
Tropers/nw09 just deleted this with the reason "'Characters who filibuster in-universe' is the correct definition for Character Filibuster. Holding the Floor is when the character does this to stall time."
This doesn't seem coherent, given that a literal filibuster is a long speech given to stall for time — this would imply that Character Filibuster is a character giving a long speech to stall for time, while Holding the Floor is a character giving a long speech to stall for time to stall for time.
Should we put it back?
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I think so.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Glancing at the description of Character Filibuster, the entry does seem to be describing it inaccurately. Thinking of changing it to this:
- Character Filibuster, predictably enough, gets used for characters who literally filibuster in-universe, giving a long speech to stall for time — but that's actually Holding the Floor. Character Filibuster is when a character just keeps talking, for an extreme and unrealistic amount of time. On top of the misuse, even the actual definition attracts complaining about characters being seen as delivering Author Filibusters.
Does that seem correct?
Edited by wingedcatgirl Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Angry babby
Questioning this recent addition:
- Balloon Belly: A lot of examples are written by people who get off to it, so it might need a lewdness check.
Does this really require TRS? Seems more like something to run by P5 cleanup. I'm glancing through some pages and don't see anything too gushy or lewd.
Edited by mightymewtron I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe. Hide / Show Replies
I agree that that's more of a matter for a cleanup thread and not TRS.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I'm helping!
Been meaning to wick-check Single-Precept Religion for a while now (the title is completely at odds with the description), but The Adhd is kicking our ass, so putting this down as a reminder/accountability thingy
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... and How Much More Can He Take?
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Is "Not Making This Up" Disclaimer's misuse as a Pothole Magnet really a job for TRS? The fact that it's already IUEO while its description makes a point of saying not to use it in the way I Am Not Making This Up was used seems more like something a cleanup thread could handle, especially since the trope's IUEO status already gives blanket permission to kill out-of-universe wicks on sight.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass. Hide / Show Replies
Agreed. It's not nearly as bad as people make what it used to be under its former name.
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
I personally still see it as a pothole magnet constantly, though it may not be as bad at the time. But it's more of a "clean on sight" thing.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Veteran Editor IV
I kinda question the Brown Note entry. I have seen plenty of examples that weren't a person soiling their pants because of the sound so it's hard to say that people really think it's limited to those, plus the trope is overdosed so disuse concerns are unwarranted.
Edited by Piterpicher Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental) Hide / Show Replies
Why would the disuse concerns be unwarranted due to the trope being overdosed?
Brown Note has 2800+ wicks, when the standard for Standing on Wick is usually 24. So I'd strongly disagree that it's not used enough, because it almost (99.999999%) definitely is.
Edited by Piterpicher Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Agreed. I've been concerned people think it's restricted to audio examples only, but even that doesn't seem to be the case (even the page image makes it clear it includes other senses) and I've almost never seen an example besides the Trope Namer and its spinoffs where the sensory input resulted in defecation.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Proposals to add to and remove from the Trivia index are being moved from a dedicated thread to TRS:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=7hmzjqzf8jytltqvjdadxidj&page=82#comment-2027
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
There are a little over a dozen pages that came here from Definition-Only Pages, a lot of which are classified as web tropes. Should we put them in a separate folder to make them easier to sort through?
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Should this page be moved to the Administrivia namespace? It seems like it has become a permanent institution of TV Tropes and we generally use Sandbox/ only for ephemeral projects.
Edited by richdev "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman Hide / Show Replies
Are there other project-type pages in the Adminstrivia namespace? The only other such page I can immediately think of outside the Sandbox namespace is Needs Wiki Magic Love, and that's in Main.
e: ... and checking its subpages, it's about a 50/50 split whether they're in Main or Administrivia. So that's a mess.
Edited by wingedcatgirl Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Right. A lot of these are in Sandbox/. Maybe they shouldn't be, but they are. I don't object to this being moved though.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
If we do not plan to make a new namespace for wiki-side perpetual projects, then Administrivia is the best place for them.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
I have no particular opinion as to which namespace this sort of thing should go in, as long as we pick just one.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
I'm down with moving it into Administrivia and making it official.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
OK, moved to Administrivia thusly.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I'd like to object to the Fighting Clown and Lethal Joke Character example in the "redundant" folder. I think the tropes are distinct enough to keep.
Fighting Clown is about a character who is thematically unusual, but completely normal gameplay-wise.
Lethal Joke Character is a character who may or may not be thematically unusual (they usually are, but this is not a strict requirement), and seems to be extremely weak, but is extremely effective if they are used in a non-conventional way.
The distinguishing factor between the two tropes is how the characters need to be played in order to be good: a Fighting Clown can be played as normal; the trope is mostly about the character's appearance, while a Lethal Joke Character needs an unusual strategy to be effective; the trope is mostly about how the character plays.
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I agree. Lethal Joke Character is certainly related to Joke Character, while Fighting Clown is a character whose theme is a joke without being a Joke Character (since, as you said, their mechanics don't fit the definition of Joke Character or Lethal Joke Character).
Edited by GastonRabbit Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
An issue I noticed is that some examples listed as Lethal Joke Character might be a better fit for Fighting Clown, but that doesn't need TRS since it's just deleting and moving incorrect examples.
Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music
I'd like to object to the claim that Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy requires the work to fail because of its excessively brutal tone. The trope description is "the audience feels that the conflict in the story is meaningless" and doesn't mention that the work had to fail. I don't think adding that requirement makes sense either — you may not know a work causes DIAA until you've actually consumed it, and as the Analysis subpage points out, it's possible to enjoy a work even if you get DIAA. We have Angst Aversion for when people avoid a work because (they hear) it's too dark — adding a "the work must fail" requirement to that makes way more sense.
On a more positive note, I like the idea of giving Stylistic Suck a Trope Transplant — the old name makes more sense for "a work, or a part of a work, is bad on purpose", and we could use something like Woeful Fictional Work for the old meaning.
Edited by MathsAngelicVersion
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I don't think we should be removing entries for tropes that have unopened threads. The fact that the thread exists doesn't mean it will be approved by the mods.
We've had at least one case of a thread being rejected by the mods not because of anything inherently wrong with the thread, but because the backlog had more important things to to take care of. (I don't remember the trope, but it was one of the cases of "trope" being used as a placeholder.)
I should probably also note that due to a glitch, titles that only list a reason (default is Needs Help) without linking to the trope in the thread title will be automatically opened due to a bug, unless the admins fixed that.
Edited by GastonRabbit Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I've soft-split the examples in the "Individual Tropes" folder to make the sandbox a little more organized.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness Hide / Show Replies
Could we "hard-split" them? The "Individual Tropes" folder is bloated since nearly everything is going to be an individual trope. The soft-split helps, but it's still difficult to actually find or see the different sections (I completely missed the "Poor Title" section after looking through several times).
I propose the following to keep in line with thread reasons in TRS. Some of the folders might be empty but it'll give people structure when adding tropes.
- Header: Individual Tropes
- Folder: "Needs Help" / Multiple Issues / Difficult to Categorize
- Folder: "Misused" / General Misuse / ZCE Issues
- Folder: "Unclear Description" / Other Description Issues
- Folder: "Duplicate Trope" / Trope Overlap
- The content of this folder should merely be "See the 'Multiple Tropes' section below."
- Folder: "Not Thriving"
- There should be a note in this folder that says "Note: Please read Wick's "Starvation" and "Standing" entries before adding tropes that aren't thriving."
- Folder: "Ambiguous Name"
- Folder: "Snowclones" / Stock Phrases
- Folder: Other Naming Issues
- Folder: "Not Tropeworthy" / "Really a Useful Note" / PSOC
- Folder: Really an Audience Reaction / Essentially Subjective
- Folder: "Complaining" / Flame Bait / Hot-Button Troping
- Header: Multiple Tropes
- Folder: "Misused" / ZCE Issues / Multiple Issues
- Folder: "Duplicate Trope" / Trope Overlap
- Folder: Related Tropes / Trope Pairs
- Folder: Problematic Naming Patterns
- Header: Brought to TLP Crash Rescue Without Resolution
- Folder: No Resolution
- Folder: Voted to Bring to TRS
Note that many of the tropes under "Misc." would fall under the "Misused" category anyway as a catch-all thread reason. Also, the "trope as placeholder" tropes would go under Multiple Tropes (Problematic Naming Patterns).
I also wonder if there should be a discussion on what should be kept on this list and what should be taken off. For example, the complaint against Suddenly Sexuality and Suddenly Ethnicity is... it's grammatically incorrect. But the ungrammaticality seems to be the joke. Meanwhile, Five-Man Band has been debated ad nauseum and could be debated ad infinitum about the gender ratio. It's been put to bed so many times, listing it here seems unfair — like, we can't just keep debating it until we get what we want. Who are we, the U.S. Congress?
[EDIT: Now that I see it, I think TLP crash rescue tropes would better fit their own section, considering that there could be any issue brought up to the crash rescue thread. And sometimes we've decided to take it to TRS instead of resolving it ourselves.]
Edited by WaterBlap Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
Not opposed to the split as you propose it, that makes sense to me.
However, the Five-Man Band thing is a point I'll fight you on; we don't want to TRS it so we can keep debating it forever, we want to TRS it so we can finally resolve the issue and come to an agreement. It's only the way it is now because of Admin Fiat, but those of us who'd been working on the cleanup thread pretty much agreed that the discussion needs to be had, not only because several otherwise valid examples had to be cut, but because there's also been confusion over the meaning of The Chick- an issue that can't be resolved without also bringing up the case of FMB's gender ratio.
Taking it to TRS is needed- the current rule has caused too much confusion and strife and we need to settle it, not just perpetually dance around it while people continue to post bad examples anyway.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The They who said it
So, do we take these to the TRS in the order in which they were added, or do we go easy-looking ones first, or some other order, or just as space opens up?
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You can go any order you want, but I decided to start with an easy-looking one in Comic Book Continuation.
Yeah, there's no specific order, this is more just for people to record pages they want to bring to TRS. You can bring any of these pages there at any time, as long as the TRS isn't full.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
I've tried to keep the lists in alphabetical order for readability's sake, since most entries are added in alphabetical order to begin with, rather than being ordered by date added.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Blapper of Water
I think I'm going to dump a few tropes in here that went through the cracks over from the TLP Crash Rescue thread. After bringing some old topics back, people were saying it's been too long and those tropes would need TRS at this point.
In order to not inflate the other lists, though, I think a "TLP Crash Rescue" section would work. The thread has gotten older tropes from time to time and we've voted "send to TRS" in the past. It isn't too hard to make such a move, so I can wait for some feedback. :)
Here's the current list that I've compiled:
- Casual Sports Jersey: Not tropeworthy, too broad. Appearance-based trope.
- Robots Are Just Better: Not tropeworthy, bad snowclone, description a general mess (both too broad and too vague)
- Poverty Porn: Name problem, bad examples
- Magical Guide: Vagueness
- Flirtatious Smack on the Ass: Two tropes in one.
- Cast from Calories: Duplicate of Cast From HP, same but more specific ("different meter, same mechanic")
- Cast from Stamina: As Cast from Calories
- Mystery Arc: "It's not even half-assed. It's like 1/16th-assed."
- Frightening Power Usage: bad description
- Token Immortal: bad description ("this work has an immortal, but not every single character is immortal.")
- Kishōtenketsu: Duplicate (Three-Act Structure), needs a better name
- The Kindness of Strangers: Not thriving (21 wicks in 7 years, 3 entries on the page)
- Comic Book Continuation: Duplicate / same but more specific (Sequel in Another Medium)
I added "X" Marks the Spot (I previously brought it to the crash rescue thread because it violates No New Stock Phrases) and alphabetized the entries you added.
Edited by GastonRabbit Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I am not sure how Kishōtenketsu is a duplicate of Three-Act Structure. Can you explain it to me?
I seem to be misremembering something. I thought that was discussed in the TLP Crash Rescue thread and that it was brought up for being a duplicate. Now, I'm not sure why it was included in my compilation (it may have been discussed in the thread but I can no longer find it). Though I can see how it may be a duplicate, considering the Three-Act Structure isn't merely about some external conflict. Re-reading the page for kishotenketsu, it seems like the first two acts are very similar with the 3AS, but ultimately different ("Act 2" is development of the conflict whereas "sho" is a development of the characters and our understanding of them). This may have come from conflating a Western four-act structure
◊ (still conflict-based) with kishotenketsu.
It could probably be taken off this list for a number of reasons.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
While 3AS isn't necessarily conflict-focused, it almost always is, since one of its pillars is that the plot's overarching "dramatic premise" is introduced in the first act, whereas the dramatic pivot of kishotenketsu is the "twist/ten" introduced in the third. I believe this is an essential structural difference that makes the two formulas/tropes distinct.
With your assent, I will remove the item from the list.
Disputing this. One-Book Author is "they only released one thing", while One-Hit Wonder is "of all the things they released, most people only know/care about one".
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