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Ambiguous Name: The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed

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    Original post 
The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed's laconic says: "Time travelers can't seem to avoid arriving on days of famous events." However, a lot of people take the name literally and use it to refer to any depiction of the end-Cretaceous extinction, even when there's no time travel involved. Similarly, the description takes several paragraphs to mention that this trope isn't just about dinosaurs.

My check of 54 wicks on 50 pages found that:

  • 14/54 (25.9%) were references to the K-Pg extinction, with no time travel involved.
  • 8/54 (14.8%) were about time-travellers arriving right before other major historical events.
  • 20/54 (37%) were about time-travellers arriving just before the K-Pg extinction.
  • 12/54 (22.2%) didn't fit into any of the above categories.

Proposed solution: Split The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed into two tropes: one about the K-Pg extinction, and another about time-travellers always arriving before major events. Use the original name as a disambig between them, and add a few related tropes such as Phlebotinum Killed the Dinosaurs, Been There, Shaped History, and Real Event, Fictional Cause.

Wick check:

The issue: According to the laconic, The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed is supposed to be about time-travellers happening to arrive on the day of historical events. However, the name and description make it sound like it's about the extinction of the dinosaurs, even when there's no time-travel involved.


    The end-Cretaceous extinction happens (14/54) 
  1. Recap.Dinosauria: Focuses on the day the K-T impact put an end to the Mesozoic era.
  2. SmallReferencePools.Real Life:
    1. Asteroid impacts? Chicxulub, Tunguska, and maybe Chelyabinsk. The Ch'ing Yang event,note  possibly the only impact event in recorded human history to result in mass casualties, will not be featured.
    2. The dinosaur age will always be depicted as one general era, instead of a succession of different time periods. As such, expect all dinosaurs to be shown together despite the fact that some have never co-existed with one another. The 'Tyrannosaurus rex is the most important dinosaur everybody remembers and will recognize by name. It will be seen attacking a herbivore dinosaur at one point, for dramatic effect, preferably a Brontosaurus, Diplodocus, Stegosaurus, Parasaurolophus, and/or a Triceratops because those are the only ones the general public will be familiar with. Thanks to the success of Jurassic Park'' the velociraptors have also gained some infamy. The air will be inhabited with pterosaurs and the seas and rivers with plesiosaurs and mosasaurs. The landscape is usually a large open field with a lot of volcanoes, so it's easier to see how huge these beasts are. The climate will always be warm and tropical, due to the endless population of reptiles. Also expect many people to assume that all dinosaurs are huge carnivorous beasts. Ah, yes, and at one point a giant asteroid will destroy everything, so time travelers need to leave fast.
  3. Comet of Doom (2): Even Older Than The Older Dirt: A comet may have been involved in the most famous extinction event in prehistory.
  4. The Dinosaurs Had It Coming: See also The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed.
  5. Just Before the End (2): Walking with Dinosaurs: As you might expect, the last episode, "Death of a Dynasty", is about the K-Pg extinction event. The episode begins a few months before the asteroid hits and ends with the extinction of the dinosaurs as the Earth is plunged into darkness by the rain of molten rock and burning ash. However, even before this, it's stated that increased global volcanism have decimated the forest habitats and greatly increased the incidences of stillbirths among dinosaurs, giving the impression the meteor was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
  6. Space Geology Tropes: If the Cretaceous era is depicted, that means a dinosaur-extinctifying rock is probably going to arrive soon.
  7. OlderThanTheyThink.Other Media: The 65 million years ago date is so ingrained in popular imagination that people often forget that dinosaurs existed for a whopping 165 million years before that. This is why, for example, it's ludicrous to depict a Tyrannosaurus and a Stegosaurus together; there's a substantially larger gap (83 million years) between the extinction of Stegosaurus and the emergence of T. rex than there is between the extinction of T. rex and the emergence of humans.
  8. Franchise.Walking With:
    1. The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed: Played straight with the Cretaceous extinction in the last episode of Walking with Dinosaurs and largely played straight in the third episode of Walking with Monsters for the Permian extinction (it does not show any single event, but shows the world right around the time of the extinction, with conditions that imply it is in progress). Averted for other episodes and the other mass extinctions.
    2. In "New Blood" there was an extended drought, in "Time of the Titans" there was a forest fire, in "Cruel Seas" there was a cyclone, in "Spirits of the Ice Forest" there's the polar winter, and in "Death of a Dynasty"… just guess.
  9. Atlantis: A story set in pre-deluge Atlantis will usually be set Just Before the End, similar to how The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed.
  10. The Newest Ones in the Book: The idea that the Cretaceous extinction event was caused by a meteor impact was proposed by Luis and Walter Alvarez in 1980.
  11. WMG.Zootopia Pre Release: Then the meteor came and mammals came to be the ruling class. And who birds originated from, again?
  12. Music.Nanowar Of Steel: "Vegan Velociraptor" ends with the titular hero defeating the Carnivorous Cows and being celebrated for his victory. Then the entire song cuts out as the meteorite hits.

    Time-travellers coincidentally arrive during major historical events (8/54) 
  1. Time Travel Tropes: When someone time-travels to a period with a disaster in it, they'll always end up witnessing that disaster.
  2. Series.Loki 2021: Invoked by The Variant, who, as our main Loki deduces, is able to avoid attracting TVA attention by hiding at apocalyptic moments in time — you can't alter the timestream enough to make a difference if everyone you're affecting is already about to die regardless. Loki and Mobius test this by visiting Pompeii just as Mount Vesuvius erupts. It's later shown the TVA itself invokes this by sending everything from the errant timelines they "prune" to an apocalyptic event at the "end of Time", where they are devoured by Alioth.
  3. Series.The Time Tunnel: And so is pretty much anything else Tony and Doug stumble upon. The Time Tunnel is supposedly sending them to random eras unpredictably, but they always seem to arrive while some famous, exciting event is happening, or about to happen.
  4. Just Before the End (1): Compare The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed, this trope's Time Travel counterpart.
  5. Literature.The Magic Treehouse: Justified, since the eponymous treehouse is attuned to travel to important historical events (which tends to include certain disasters). Most notably, Jack and Annie end up in Pompeii as Mt. Vesuvius erupts, on the RMS Titanic, and in San Francisco in time for the 1906 earthquake. (Ironically, the one time they do go to the Cretaceous period, there's no asteroid in sight.)
  6. Sandbox.The Chronicles Of Saint Marys: Justified, as the reason St. Mary's exists is to investigate notable historical events and those events are often lively.
  7. Recap.Doctor Who S 30 E 2 The Fires Of Pompeii:
    1. That being said, the story's other aesop about how history can't be changed remains intact.
    2. There's no saving Pompeii. It's a fixed point in history. The possible alternative of a Pyrovile-run Earth doesn't help much. And the only time the Doctor could visit Pompeii was of course the day before it was to be buried.

    Both (20/54) 
  1. Anime.Dinosaur King: In the Season 2 premiere, the Backlander time machine ship takes the Alpha Gang and the D-Team to the Cretaceous Period. In just a few minutes, it is revealed that they arrived on the very day the meteor that killed the dinosaurs is due to hit.
  2. Real Event, Fictional Cause: Animorphs: Towards the end of the Cretaceous, two alien species were warring with each other for control of Earth: the antlike Nesk and crablike Mercora. The Animorphs side with the Mercora and drive the Nesk off-planet, but as a parting gesture the Nesk redirect a passing comet onto the Earth. The Animorphs had stolen a nuke with which to return to their own time, but willingly give it up to the Mercora to destroy the comet. Or that was the plan: Tobias, who knew full well what the comet meant, had Ax disarm the nuke in order to ensure the complete eradication of the Mercora, the slow death of the dinosaurs, and the subsequent rise of mammals and later humans. The Mercora's only legacy would be that they introduced broccoli to Earth.
  3. NightmareFuel.Prehistoric Park Returned From Extinction: As always, the Mesozoic-ending meteor is a massive source of panic, but here, Nigel ahs the added problem of facing off against it while trying to get the injured but still alive female rex through the portal.
  4. Anime.Doraemon Nobita And The Knights On Dinosaurs: The final battle taking place 65 million years ago where Doraemon and friends takes on Banhou and the rest of the dinosaur-men army is interrupted by the very meteor that triggered the extinction event that wiped out the dinosaurs. Which quickly puts the battle on hold as everyone present in the scene quickly retreats.
  5. Comet of Doom (1): Animorphs: In one book, the characters have traveled to the time of the dinosaurs and see a comet in the sky. Cassie mentions that humans used to believe that comets were a bad omen, and Ax says that Andalites had a similar superstition. Of course, said comet turns out to be the comet that killed the dinosaurs.
  6. Cataclysm Climax: Doraemon: Nobita and the Knights on Dinosaurs has Doraemon and gang facing an entire army of raptor-men in the Cretaceous era, in order to prevent the raptors from wiping out ancestors of mammals and to "reclaim Earth for the dinosaurs". After Doraemon repels most of the raptor-men's weapons, they then respond by bringing out their war machines, but then the battle is interrupted by the meteorite heralding the K–Pg extinction event.
  7. Tropesaurus Index: When the Cretaceous period is featured in a work, it will always be immediately before the famous meteorite hits the Earth and sets off the mass extinction. Can also refer to other historical events like how arriving in Europe in 1939 always seems to mean getting caught in the start of World War 2.
  8. Phlebotinum Killed the Dinosaurs: See also The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed, which is about the tendency of time-travelers to arrive at dates of historical significance — especially the end of the dinosaurs — by complete coincidence; that trope can overlap with this one if the reason they're present for the extinction is that they caused it.
  9. Series.Prehistoric Park:
    1. Advancing Wall of Doom: The typical example for a dinosaur documentary, the blast front of the asteroid impact. In this case, it's pretty obvious no one's outrunning something moving a hundred times faster than sound waves, the challenge is for Nigel to lure two young Tyrannosaurus into a time portal before the rapidly approaching ash cloud reaches them in a few moments.
    2. In the first episode Nigel goes back 65 million years to collect two Tyrannosaurs, hours before the asteroid hits. It's true that he collects animals that are about to die anyway to avoid altering history too much, but would it have hurt to have gone at least a month before the asteroid hit?
  10. Animorphs.Tropes A To H: In Megamorphs 2: In the Time of the Dinosaurs, a hole in space-time causes the Animorphs to accidentally arrive one day before the asteroid hit. They get into a tussle with several warring Ancient Astronauts trying to colonize Earth, the losing species attempting revenge by diverting the path of a passing comet. The meteor's strike creates another hole that lets the kids return to the present. It was one of the weirder books.
  11. Bill & Ted's Excellent Comic Book: Bill and Ted track Death to the Cretaceous period and persuade him to leave seconds before the asteroid hits.
  12. Literature.Pathfinder 2010: Justified. Rigg can travel back in time by identifying the "path" of a living thing that had walked the land before. In a moment of urgency he picks the most recent path of an extinct animal he sees, which turns out to be fleeing the Colony Drop that rendered it extinct.
  13. TabletopGame.Predation: Grevakc is Earth, 65 millions of years ago, at the very tail end of the Cretaceous. Sometime in the not-too-distant future, a cataclysm would wipe out almost all life, including the humans who'd travelled through time to get there.
  14. Bookends.Live Action TV: Adric's debut story ("Full Circle") and his swansong ("Earthshock") both show him clutching the belt which once belonged to his late brother, Varsh. In the first instance, Varsh's friend, Keara, gives the belt to Adric after removing it from Varsh's body. In the second, Adric, knowing his own death is imminent, takes off the belt and holds it in his hands as the space freighter on which he is trapped crashes into the prehistoric Earth, causing the extinction of the dinosaurs.
  15. VideoGame.Nanosaur: You were sent back twenty minutes before the asteroid hits.
  16. VideoGame.The Magic School Bus: In Dinosaurs, there's a Random Event in which the bus malfunctions and sends you to the end of the Cretaceous by accident. You can stay there a while or click an "X" to skip the whole sequence, but either way the bus manages to leave just before the asteroid strikes.
  17. Ride.Dinosaur: Justified: Dr. Marsh wanted the tour to go to the Early Cretaceous, but Seeker wants the riders to rescue an Iguanodon from impossibly close to when the asteroid hits, according to Marsh, and hacked the Time Rover to facilitate his plan.
  18. ComicBook.Green Valley: During the Helena's final, erratic time jump, it briefly flashes through the Cretaceous at the exact moment the meteor struck.
  19. Recap.Justice League Unlimited S 1 E 13 Time Warped: Chronos punishes Chucko's betrayal by dumping him at the end of the Cretaceous, just before the asteroid impact.

    Other (12/54) 
  1. Characters.Cable Enemies: His (currently as of 2019) final showdown with Cable took place in the North Africa of the Cretaceous, and he tried fusing the Cretaceous with a weird Deathlok future (but of course failed, because, well... see the trope name). Not enough context.
  2. Series.Power Rangers Dino Charge: Of course, Sledge and the Keeper reach Earth the day the asteroids hit. Though there's a very good reason for that: they're responsible for the asteroids. Ultimately Subverted in the finale. The former event is more like Phlebotinum Killed the Dinosaurs, but there's time travel involved in the latter.
  3. Laconic.The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed: Visit the unabridged version HERE
  4. Characters.Planet Of Dinosaurs: In general, most of the time-travel scenes of Planet Of Dinosaurs happen in the Cretaceous which is portrayed in every episode, and also averting The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed, while the Jurassic period is always Late-Jurassic and is shown only in the 1st and 3rd episode — and the Triassic only in the first half of the 1st episode. Aversion of "both". Also, what the heck is going on with this page? It's formatted more like a Wikipedia synopsis.
  5. PlayingWith.The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed: Back to The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed
  6. WMG.Prehistoric Planet: Season two will end with the asteroid impact
  7. VideoGame.The Journeyman Project: The TSA invokes this when hiding the historical log. They first choose a period in time where it is unlikely historical events would've been changed, and choose the late Triassic. They then set up an island to hide the historical log (the latitude and longitude are given, putting it about 200 miles southeast of Hawaii), locking it away in the cliffside, which would render it safe from any wild animal. However, not long after this period of time, the volcanic eruption known to start the Triassic/Jurassic extinction periods would've commenced, and all of the evidence would've been destroyed by the lava, preventing any of it from changing history.
  8. Administrivia.Tropes Needing TRS: The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed's laconic and description say it's about when time-travellers always happen to arrive on the day of major events, but possibly due to the name, there are plenty of examples about works that show the extinction of the dinosaurs with no time travel involved.
  9. WesternAnimation.Dinosaur: An odd subversion. It's a movie about dinosaurs where the plot is kicked off by a meteor strike, but it's not the big one: its damage is confined to a relatively small area, and the dinosaurs manage to survive by migrating en masse to the nearest fertile area. It should probably be noted that meteor strikes (let along ones big enough to cause real environmental damage) weren't a regular occurrence in the Cretaceous period: they were just as rare then as they are today.
  10. VideoGame.Chrono Trigger: It doesn't happen overnight, but Lavos' arrival eventually causes an Ice Age which lasts over sixty million years. The Enlightened Ones use magic to inhabit the sky, above the never-ending blizzard, but the collapse of Zeal results in the destruction of that civilization. A fictional event.
  11. JustForFun.Grand Unified Timeline Prehistory: Do not adjust this to 66,000,000 B.C.E., because most works of fiction that visit this time period do so just to witness the extinction of the dinosaurs, which is usually rounded off in-universe to 65 million years ago, as the realignment to a more accurate date was only done in the 21st century.
  12. PokedexOfTropes.A To F: The Cretaceous is Always Houndoomed

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 23rd 2024 at 8:37:04 AM

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#26: Apr 5th 2024 at 8:30:27 AM

[up]I like it. Makes me think of the purported Time Crash that happened in Star Trek according to "Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow" because of everybody and their mother temporally edit-warring over the Eugenics Wars.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#27: Apr 5th 2024 at 9:23:15 PM

If the split is being taken to TLP, go ahead and decide the names there.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 5th 2024 at 11:23:30 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
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#28: Apr 6th 2024 at 11:27:59 PM

So... do we need permission from a mod to make the TLP drafts? I'll handle the K-Pg one; who wants to do the time travel one?

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#29: Apr 7th 2024 at 8:17:59 AM

[up]I already gave permission to do the split here, so go ahead and make the drafts if you want to handle the split via TLP.

I don't feel up to handling any drafts myself, though.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 7th 2024 at 10:19:50 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
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animuacid Animu from Suginomiya district Since: Jan, 2024
Animu
#31: Apr 7th 2024 at 11:40:08 AM

[up]We could start moving any examples and wicks of The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed there if they fit.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#32: Apr 7th 2024 at 12:21:04 PM

[up]That's what was done when Bald Of Awesome was retooled into Bald of Authority, so that's been done before.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#33: Apr 7th 2024 at 12:48:50 PM

[up][up]I copied all the straight K-Pg examples I could find that didn't involve time travel... Which wasn't many.

NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#34: Apr 7th 2024 at 10:18:44 PM

In the comments of The Day the Dinosaurs Died, someone asked me why I was excluding time-travel examples, and I'm not sure how to respond. What do you think?

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#35: Apr 8th 2024 at 3:39:26 AM

If it matters since the crowner option's text didn't make the definition clear in hindsight, the time travel trope we decided to split off is defined as "Time travelers have a tendency to arrive on days of famous events." That can involve the K-Pg extinction, but isn't limited to that.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 8th 2024 at 5:41:04 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#36: Apr 8th 2024 at 3:49:47 AM

I've commented on it at the TLP draft in question, and further discussion on the matter can probably go there as well.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#37: Apr 10th 2024 at 9:48:14 AM

Starred the thread since the split is being done through TLP.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#38: Apr 12th 2024 at 7:54:30 AM

Anyone want to handle the time-travel trope?

NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#39: Apr 17th 2024 at 6:34:50 AM

I'll be launching The Day the Dinosaurs Died tomorrow if no-one objects, and it seems like I'll have to handle the time-travel trope as well... regardless, once the former launches, we'll need to start cleanup.

NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#42: Apr 22nd 2024 at 11:54:47 AM

After two renames, I'm planning to launch it tomorrow, so we'd better decide to put on the disambig. Besides the tropes it was split into, I'm thinking of including UsefulNotes.Dinosaurs and Phlebotinum Killed the Dinosaurs. Any more?

Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#45: Apr 23rd 2024 at 6:34:23 PM

I added this to Split Tropes (feel free to adjust the entries if I missed anything) and the Renamed and Split Tropes thread, and I left a note on the original page's discussion page.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
NitroIndigo ♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves from West Midlands region, England Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
#46: Apr 24th 2024 at 12:45:28 AM

I've cleaned up nearly all the wicks for The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed, except for an unpublished work and a personal sandbox.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#47: Apr 24th 2024 at 10:01:46 AM

I took care of those, so closing.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Add Post

Trope Repair Shop: The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed
1st Apr '24 1:01:29 AM

Crown Description:

The Cretaceous Is Always Doomed is about time travelers having a tendency to arrive on days of famous events. However, a lot of people take the name literally and use it to refer to any depiction of the end-Cretaceous extinction, even when there's no time travel involved. Similarly, the description takes several paragraphs to mention that this trope isn't just about dinosaurs. What should be done?

Total posts: 47
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