Follow TV Tropes

Following

Ambiguous Name: Kick The Son Of A Bitch

Go To

To-do list:

    Original post 
Note: This thread was proposed by StarSword.

Kick The Son Of A Bitch is supposed to be when an evil act inadvertently screws over somebody who had it coming. E.g. The description example is of a scenario where violent bank robbers kill somebody who just happened to be an extraordinarily cruel pimp because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is specifically contrasted with Pay Evil unto Evil, where the bank robbers kill the pimp specifically as payback for his cruelty.

Despite the description, I keep seeing it misused on work pages for Pay Evil unto Evil and related tropes. On top of that it's a Pothole Magnet.

Personally I think the title is a Bad Snowclone of Kick the Dog and the trope is probably redundant to Asshole Victim and Karmic Death; I suggest disambiguating the page as a solution.

Sandbox.Kick The Son Of A Bitch Wick Check came back with 14% correct use, 52% misuse, 19% sinkholes, 10% ZCE or PCE, and 3% unclear.

Wick check:

Kick The Son Of A Bitch is supposed to be when an evil act inadvertently screws over somebody who had it coming. E.g. The description example is of a scenario where violent bank robbers kill somebody who just happened to be an extraordinarily cruel pimp because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is specifically contrasted with Pay Evil unto Evil, where the bank robbers kill the pimp specifically as payback for his cruelty.

Despite the description, I keep seeing it misused on work pages for Pay Evil unto Evil and related tropes. On top of that it's a Pothole Magnet.

Personally I think the title is a Bad Snowclone of Kick the Dog and the trope is probably redundant to Asshole Victim and Karmic Death; I suggest disambiguating the page as a solution.

50 pages checked, 15 main space and 35 work pages. 63 total examples. I've boldfaced uses of the trope, added my comments in parentheses at the end.

    open/close all folders 

    Correct Use (9/63, 14.3%) 

Trope Pages

  • Good Is Not Nice (index): ""Kick The Son Of A Bitch: When the hero's cruel act isn't that bad because the one receiving it isn't sympathetic"
  • Unscrupulous Hero: "Veronica Mars: The title character's intent is always to catch the bad guy, but her methods can range from manipulating an officer in order to steal evidence or eavesdropping on therapy sessions. Her motivation is almost always revenge rather than justice. She certainly enjoys her Kick the Dog moments, but her targets are always REALLY terrible people so the audience doesn't flinch too much."
  • Wardens Are Evil: "Edwin James, the warden of Alcatraz. He has been shown to resort to psychological torture in order to learn crucial information about prisoners, such as manipulating Ernest Cobb's attempts to be placed in solitary confinement or threatening to leave Kit Nelson in a small dark room until Nelson admits the truth about his first crime (although Kit Nelson really had it coming, having been sent to Alcatraz for being a child killer). His deputy Tiller is corrupt and more open in his cruelty towards the inmates."

Work Pages

    Misuse (33/63, 52.4%) 

Trope Pages

Work Pages

    Sinkhole (12/63, 19.0%) 

Trope Pages

  • Back for the Dead: "Captain Ginyu of all people returns in Dragon Ball Super in the Freeza Revival arc, stealing Tagoma's body and making a grand spectacle of his return to a proper body. Then Vegeta shows up and finishes what he started back on Namek."
  • Blamed for Being Railroaded: "In Dude, Stop, the narrator tells you not to touch anything while he's on the phone during the tutorial. Of course, he takes so long to make the call that the only way to progress is to ignore his instructions and deliberately fail all the puzzles. This leads to the narrator getting irrationally angry and threatening to ban you from playing the rest of the game. Though the main point of this exercise is to make it harder for you to feel sorry for the guy when you deliberately fail later puzzles. In fact, some of the packs require you to fail in order to progress, which of course still makes the narrator angry." (no idea)
  • Hope Bringer: "Shin Megami Tensei IVs Main Character becomes this in the Neutral Route by helping as many people and demons as he can both in Tokyo and the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado, to the point of recreating one third of a divine entity's power by the sheer amount of hope he inspires. Then he proves why he can generate so much hope by taking back the other two thirds from the Seraph Merkabah and the Demon Lord Lucifer. At the end of the Neutral Route, the people of Mikado believe so much in him that they are ready to evacuate their kingdom at his command. The Hope Crusher White are utterly furious at him, as they wanted to break his spirit so he would never again seek any form of renewal or continuity, and keep throwing divine monsters and even Alternate Timelines in his path — fat lot of good it did to them.'"

Work Pages

  • Locke & Key (2020) Adaptation-Induced Plot Hole: "Also, how Dodge got his hands on the Gender/Identity Key: in the comic books, Ellie accidentally dropped her Keys in the Wellhouse after her mom hit her in the face; then, when Dodge's freshly-summoned Echo snapped Candice Whedon's neck, Ellie fled in a blind panic without picking them up. In the show, Ellie's first meeting with Dodge was conducted quite peacefully with no murders, with Ellie still being totally clueless about the fact that Lucas's Echo was possessed, even when he began demanding the Keys with open aggression, to the point that when asked, she just... handed over the Identity Key - which, unlike the Gender Key, offers literally unlimited opportunities for disguise."
  • Awesome.The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim:
    • "While most players who do "The Taste of Death" may complete it, there’s an option to save the priest of Arkay by killing every cannibal in Markarth gathered there and robbing Namira of a follower. Did You Just Scam Cthulhu?? For bonus points, if you've done a few small quests for Lisbet and Banning, killing them and Eola with the Ebony Blade will count as charges for it. Who says betrayal and murder has to leave you feeling guilty?" (Pay Evil unto Evil)
    • "Storming through the Thalmor embassy on your own feels incredibly satisfying, particularly as you may not be a high level, but in any case you're not only holding your own against the Thalmor, you're utterly handing their arses to them. Then, after you've recovered the military intelligence, you and Malborn both flee via the dungeons, with any of the hostages you've rescued- and bump straight into a Frost Troll. If you have a follower, he'll show up to save you all, meaning it's about five people versus one Frost Troll. Talk about an epic escape." (no argument that the Thalmor have it coming but this isn't really portrayed as a villainous act by the Player Character)
  • Characters.A New Hope Danganronpa Penjar: "Quick Draw: Is quite fast with his gun, and plugging Monokuma."
  • Characters.Star Wars Darth Vader And Servants: "Pet the Dog: He rewards Firmus Piett for finding the rebel base, by promoting him to admiral. After Force choking the incompetent and arrogant Admiral Ozzel to death. (more chained sinkholes, and that was the archetypical You Have Failed Me)
  • Exalted.Tropes A To H: "Card-Carrying Villain: In 2nd Edition the Yozi reward the Infernal Exalted for playing the role of villains, such as monologuing about their evil schemes, leaving their heroic foes in cunning deathtraps, or other cliched acts of villainy. One can be rewarded for going through said cliches...against people worse than they are... with deliberate flaws... the Green Sun Princes can become Noble Demons if they want." (dependent on tabletop RPG player actions so too ambiguous to classify)
  • Fate/Zero Sense: "Cerebus Syndrome: The fic takes a very dark turn with the death of Caster at the hands of Berserker in chapter eleven. Not that Caster and Uryuu don't deserve it, but their deaths do begin the darkening of the plot." (ambiguous pothole)
  • FinalFantasyXIV.Tropes S To U: "Surprisingly Realistic Outcome: In "The Parting Glass" and its immediate aftermath, the culprit's plot goes off more or less without a hitch. The Sultana is dead, as is Lord Lolorito's peer/rival Teledji Adeledji, Raubahn is in prison awaiting execution for murdering Teledji, and the Scions of the Seventh Dawn have been broken and branded as regicides. Afterwards, however, the culprit runs into the problem of trying to run a Frame-Up on someone with a Hundred Percent Adoration Rating like the Warrior of Light. Most of the public only knows rumors about what happened, and almost nobody believes the accusations against the Warrior, so the False Flag Operation fails. The few that do believe that the Warrior is guilty decide they'd rather just turn a blind eye to the Warrior's presence, handily handwaving the fact that they can move around more or less freely despite supposedly being Eorzea's Most Wanted. The other leaders of the Eorzean Alliance further made it clear to the Ul'dahn Syndicate that they are not to go public with the charges against the Warrior until they can present concrete evidence, ostensibly because of the unrest that would occur if the realm's beloved hero and primal slayer were accused of something like what the culprit intended. Then Heavensward comes around, and reveals that things didn't go so smoothly after all. Very little of what happened at the Bloody Banquet was intended by Lolorito. Teledji Adeledji may have wanted to overthrow the Sultanate and install himself and his fellow Monetarists as the rulers of Ul'dah, but Lolorito recognized that he was already running the show in all but name. He stood to lose far too much and gain too little by going along with Teledji's plan. As such, Lolorito had the poison intended for Sultana Nanamo replaced with a sleeping potion, and had intended to use his influence to publicly acquit the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, including the Warrior of Light, of all charges. But the Scions' refusal to stand down and be brought in by guards — who, for all they knew, intended to simply execute them all on the spot — spoiled that part of the plan."
  • Manga.Blade Of The Immortal: "Curb-Stomp Battle: Any time Makie get serious. Also, in a great Kick The Son Of A Bitch moment, Rin VS Burando."

    Zero/Partial Context (6/63, 9.52%) 

    Unclear (2/63, 3.17%) 
  • Characters.TNO Germany: Five different examples, all of which have to do with Martin Bormann neutralizing other Nazis while the player is playing as Nazi Germany in a total conversion mod for a 4X game.
  • Glass (2019): "Kick The Son Of A Bitch: A complicated example when the Beast finds out that Kevin's father was killed on the train that Mr. Glass blew up. The Beast is understandably furious and brutalizes Mr. Glass for doing this, but on the other hand, Mr. Glass is the lesser of two evils when you factor in the Ancient Conspiracy."

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 20th 2023 at 3:01:08 AM

Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#51: Jul 29th 2023 at 11:31:58 AM

Awesome.Soap shows up in the related page even though there's no link on there.

Also, from Awesome.The Following:

  • Claire going for three episodes in a row of awesome, by cracking Joe over the head with a bottle of wine, and stabbing his stitched up stab wound with a dinner fork. And then Kicking The Son of A Bitch

I wasn't sure how to fix the last sentence, so I just cut it entirely, but I feel like this might have cut out an important part of the context, so if anyone has any ideas on how to replace that, please do so.


Another example I'm unsure how to handle, from Awesome.Tour De France:

  • In 2007, Alberto Contador got the race lead after a harsh Kick The Son Of A Bitchnote  move against Michael Rasmussen by ASO and UCI. Some sources say that ASO didn't want the yellow jersey to be worn on stage 17, other sources say that Alberto Contador did not want to wear it. It's a known fact that ASO and UCI did not like Rasmussen, while Contador is usually a friendly and respectful person.

To me, it looks like it's calling a real person an SOB. I just removed the note and turned it into "a harsh move" but I don't know if that's really the best way to word it.

Edited by Zuxtron on Jul 29th 2023 at 2:50:15 PM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#52: Jul 29th 2023 at 11:39:38 AM

[up]If a page has no wicks on it, it's possible for a glitch to cause a ghost wick to show up on a Related page anyway. I fixed it by adding a link to Tropers.system and removing it with another edit, because adding links to Tropers/ pages fixes the problem without making a ghost wick show up for a different page's Related page (since Tropers/ pages are omitted).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 29th 2023 at 1:40:37 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#53: Jul 29th 2023 at 12:51:05 PM

[up][up]Are Useful Notes pages even allowed to have Awesome subpages in the first place?

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#54: Aug 4th 2023 at 7:21:26 PM

[up]Okay, I checked on Ask The Tropers and the mods seem to think it's fine, so...

Now < 3200 wicks remaining.

Coachpill Can shapeshift (probably) from Washington State, grew up on Long Island Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Can shapeshift (probably)
#55: Sep 5th 2023 at 10:59:43 AM

E: [nja]'d myself

Edited by Coachpill on Oct 2nd 2023 at 12:23:18 PM

Silver and gold, silver and gold
Coachpill Can shapeshift (probably) from Washington State, grew up on Long Island Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Can shapeshift (probably)
#56: Oct 2nd 2023 at 9:22:56 AM

[up] Forget the above, I'm just focusing on individual namespaces. Already cleared out wrestling and YMMV

Silver and gold, silver and gold
Coachpill Can shapeshift (probably) from Washington State, grew up on Long Island Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Can shapeshift (probably)
#57: Oct 3rd 2023 at 11:29:58 AM

Down to 2800, going to see how much I can get done today. Literature is by far the most taxing because of how often it's improperly indented

Edited by Coachpill on Oct 3rd 2023 at 2:50:08 PM

Silver and gold, silver and gold
Coachpill Can shapeshift (probably) from Washington State, grew up on Long Island Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Can shapeshift (probably)
#58: Oct 5th 2023 at 3:19:51 PM

Looked through a lot of the namespaces last night and this morning as quickly as possible; got up to about 15-1600 in 40 minutes (total). I'll keep track of those while putting the rest in a sandbox over the weekend.

Silver and gold, silver and gold
Coachpill Can shapeshift (probably) from Washington State, grew up on Long Island Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
Can shapeshift (probably)
#59: Oct 12th 2023 at 6:27:42 AM

Been super busy with college but I'm working on tracking the wicks in a Word document. Goal is to finish things up ASAP. I've done some stuff to make cleaning the Characters namespace much easier; Literature is still the same though

Edited by Coachpill on Oct 12th 2023 at 7:03:43 AM

Silver and gold, silver and gold
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#60: Oct 12th 2023 at 7:20:35 AM

I've been focusing on cleaning out smaller namespaces a little at a time. Did Darth Wiki earlier this week.

AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#61: Nov 30th 2023 at 2:20:26 PM

Added the new broadened definition of Catharsis Factor to the disambig list. I can tell most people use KTSOAB in YMMV pages and Moments pages as an Audience Reaction, so seems like a good replacement to use in those scenarios.

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
wootzits Since: Apr, 2010
#62: Mar 15th 2024 at 5:35:31 PM

Bumping to point out I've pared this down to below 2000 wicks.

kundoo from the land of Mordor where the shadows lie Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#63: Apr 23rd 2024 at 10:23:29 AM

1500 wicks

You didn't see anything.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#64: Apr 24th 2024 at 12:44:30 AM

You know, where do examples fit where evil things happen to an evil character not because of karma or because Pay Evil unto Evil, but simply as a matter of ironic coincidence? e.g a serial murderer killing a woman who unbeknowst to him is also a serial killer?

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
kundoo from the land of Mordor where the shadows lie Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#65: Apr 24th 2024 at 2:37:24 AM

I usually put those under Asshole Victim

You didn't see anything.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
kundoo from the land of Mordor where the shadows lie Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#67: Apr 25th 2024 at 1:33:40 PM

Down to 1000 wicks

You didn't see anything.
wootzits Since: Apr, 2010
#68: Apr 26th 2024 at 4:01:31 PM

796 wicks and Characters/ is the only remaining namespace.

kundoo from the land of Mordor where the shadows lie Since: Sep, 2010 Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#69: Apr 27th 2024 at 5:28:38 PM

582 wicks

You didn't see anything.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
AnoneMouseJr Since: Nov, 2010
#72: Apr 28th 2024 at 12:41:51 PM

Archives can't be edited, so no.

Until next time...

Anon e Mouse Jr.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#73: Apr 28th 2024 at 1:17:56 PM

Yeah, it has to stay because archives are off-limits even for mods.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
#74: Apr 28th 2024 at 1:26:51 PM

Fair enough. I cleared out the entries for the "Star" franchises and we are now sub-400.

StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor

Total posts: 78
Top