To-do list:
- Initially, TRS renamed Authority Equals Asskicking to Authority Grants Asskicking, but since that name was determined to be inaccurate, it was renamed again to Rank Scales with Asskicking. Originally renamed because "equals" made it unclear which way the causality goes, with examples split between the new name and Position of Literal Power because of two separate reasons why someone with a high rank would be powerful.
- Examples of characters' power increasing with rank go to Rank Scales with Asskicking, and characters gaining access to power directly associated with positions of authority after gaining said positions go to Position of Literal Power.
There is rampant misuse on both of these troes based on my checks Authority Equals Asskicking Wick Check and Asskicking Equals Authority Wick Check. Not only are the names of these tropes gramatically the same (A=B is logically equivalent to B=A), but neither check has more than 20% of purely good examples.
Both tropes need to be renamed to better differentiate from each other. One Mod even admitted on the TRS thread they believed one was the redirect of the other, showing how anyone could be mistaken in this connection. One suggested set of names is to change the verb "equals" to something which shows the conditional nature of the tropes. For Authority Equals Asskicking it would be Authority Requires Asskicking. For Asskicking Equals Authority it could be The Leader Must Kick Ass. Another option could be shifting to more direct conditional terms, but that could make the trope names a bit long. Such as If P, then Q
A further problem arrises from neither trope making it clear in their pages that these are world-setting tropes and not to be focused on one or two characters.
Here are my summaries.
For Authority Equals Asskicking:
Good uses of Auth=Ass 4/80 5%
ZCE and Unclear 20/80 25%
General misuse 46/80 57.5%
Wicks with multiple entries not all same results 6/80 7.5%
Neutral / Indexes 1/80 1.25%
Pantheon Listings 3/80 3.75%
For Asskicking Equals Authority
Summary out of 60 Wicks
Good: 12/60 20%
Provisionally Good: 5/60 8.33%
Zero Context Examples 20/60 33.3333333%
Unclear or Ambiguous: 3/60 5%
Misuse 13/60 21.667%
Index 0/60 0%
Multiple wicks 7/60 11.667%
Asskicking Equals Authority wick check:
Total Wicks on 7/27/2022 is 3469. The squareroot is 58.8. I will run an even 60 simplicity. Note for basic definition In other words, In this world’s setting if you're The Leader because you're the toughest, then that is Ass=Auth. If you're the toughest because you're The Leader then that is Auth = Ass. There needs to be a correlation between them. A leader who is strong is neither trope. This is a world-setting trope not a character based trope. However, I won’t automatically dismiss a wick as a misuse if it links to a character page. I will examine the main page(s) of the media to see if the trope is listed there.The problem first off is this trope is grammatically equivalent to Authority Equals Asskicking. The Name needs to be something like The Strongest becomes the Leader. The second problem I suspect I will find is a lot of misuse. If the partner check on Authority Equals Asskicking is any template where less than 10% of all checked resulted in good examples depending on how one runs the wicks with multiple entries, then this run will be equally poor in results.
Should we need to change it, I think a better name would be The Leader Must Kick Ass. Or All Leaders Must Kickass if the trope is to remain in a more world-setting over individual characters. Either way, both show a strong conditional relationship this trope’s definition refers to.
On my process, if the numbers generated fall on a headline in the excel program, I will move one number ahead assuming it doesn’t hit a repeated number.note . And while this is not a character trope, I won’t discount the wick for falling in those pages but look to see if it matches the trope and if the whole series follows the trope. Note that the number of character tropes listes is 1554 out of 3469, or 44.79%, which incidentally is lower than in the sister check.
Set//
Set 1: 334, 677, 1006, 1128, 1363, 1585, 1696, 1750, 2471 Headline > 2472, 3438
Set 2: 78, 709, 968, 1298, 1665, 2147, 2161, 3411, 3444, 3564
Set 3: 78 repeat >680 , 189, 432, 819, 1073, 1489, 2125, 2445, 2747, 3609
Set 4: 767, 871, 1156, 1224, 1244, 1332, 1427, 2012, 2779, 3216 Headline> 3217
Set 5: 137, 453, 715, 887, 965, 1036, 1624, 1926, 2286, 3540
Set 6: 158, 301, 1049, 1175, 1690, 2676, 2808, 3237, 3339 Headline >3340, 3556
I am separating the Good examples between wholly good and ones who might be good but the examples are poorly written. I don’t know how many there will be.
Good example as it notes that Urgal people gain station by combat.
3438-2- Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor
It talks about the whole orc society and how the leaders are taken from those who are strongest.
78-3- Devil, but No God
2161-4-Anime & Manga
Good example as it details people who became leaders of a land because of their combat skills. They screwed up, but it is noted to be a deconstruction of the trope, so I see it as valid nonetheless.
1073-5-Grandia Xtreme
While it is a presumption, good example as it shows his strength is key to being the leader in this group.
2125 - 6- Dead Evil
Good example as it demonstrates a man is a leader because of his strength, or at least strength of his companion dragon.
871 - 7- Dungeons And Dragons Creatures I To L
Good example. It satisfies the conditional and a common trait for this society.
1427 -8- One-Punch Man: Monster Association
2012-9-Total War: Warhammer - The Empire
Good example. Within the Collegiate society, he attains his position by beating the previous leader in combat.
2779-10- Magic Knight/Literature
Good example. It notes how strong he is and that strength is why he is highly ranked in an island nation’s society, though it is unclear if seventh is high or low in the command structure.
137 - 11- Immortal Ruler
Good example. Within the society, the strongest undead became and remains the leader because of that strength.
3339 moved to 3340 -12 - Anime & Manga
The example lists Rimiru as the strongest and the monster culture to respect that ability to kick ass. He has other qualities as well, but still fits the core of Ass=Auth
667 -1 Buffyverse: Faith Lehane
1156 - 2- Incarnation of Legends
Provisionally a good example as she is shown to gain her leadership through being the strongest. However, this isn’t shown to be part of any other character or the trope main page.
1224 3- Knights And Magic Silver Phoenix Knights
965 -4-Final Fantasy Dimensions
Good example. It shows the conditional relationship between the leader and the strength to beat the previous one.
3237-5- Live-Action TV
Given this is under Surprisingly Realistic Outcome, this is a good example. They demonstrate the leadership position being chosen based on a person’s power to kick ass. However, as noted in other examples, this trope may not qualify for the world-setting aspect.
ZCE as it is just a plopped into the character’s name with no context.
1006 - 2 -Freedom City Play By Post DEF
1363 -3- Mortal Kombat vs Marvel Universe
709 -4- Chronicles of the Kencyrath
They just plugged the trope into the character’s name as though this is all that’s needed to be known.
2147-5- Darth Wiki/Synergy
ZCE. It’s just plopped into a list of words describing a character.
3564- 6- Web Animation/Xin
189 -7- No Guy Wants to Be Chased
ZCE. It just plops the trope in one word as though this demonstrates how he is the leader because he is the strongest.
432-8-Fairy Tail
ZCE. It doesn’t demonstrate here if he became leader before this action by other means. Maybe if the other two lines above would be made into one succinct example it could work but not as this.
3609 - 9-Shinka The Last Eevee
No evidence is given to leadership or strength or the conditional nature needed.
The trope is just plopped in there likely in reference to the above instance but still doesn’t demonstrate anything about Krypton’s strength or him being a leader conditional to that strength.
3216-3217 -10- Video Games
ZCE. It doesn’t mention at all how one gains rank by beating the other members of this group. It is just plopped in there.
453 -11- Sonic Forces
ZCE. It doesn’t show how Knuckles became the resistance leader because of his strength. It is just plopped in there.
715 -12- Citadel Of The Heart Unova
ZCE. It is unclear the relationship this Durant has with the Haxorus, whether the summoned is subservient or if a debt is being paid.
1036 -13- Gears Of War Gorasni
ZCE. It’s just the trope, No context.
1624 - 14-Spartacus Blood And Sand Protagonists Vengeance
Zero context is given here how he was put in his place and if the society he comes from follows this idea.
2280 -15- Secret War
ZCE. The trope is just plopped in there with no context on who the person is or if they are a leader because they are strong.
3540 -16- Fallout: New Vegas
Zero context as it doesn’t state anyone in particular being in charge because of strength. It is also just a long list of link tropes.
158-17- Light 'em Up
Zero context in how his light powers enabled him to be a leader in the Navy.
1049 -18- Giant Robo
ZCE. It shows no correlation between strength and leadership.
2676-19- Secret City
ZCE on anything about strength and leadership.
2808 -20- Maken-ki!
ZCE on how they are strong or if their leadership is conditional on that strength.
1298-1- Characters/Maneater
Unclear example. It details how the shark became the apex predator of lesser creatures but doesn’t state if that means she rules them or not.
2747 -2- The Troop
Possibly good example. Kent is the leader because of his size and strength. It is unclear because of lack of context in whether this is before or after the scoutmaster dies.
1690 -3- Street Fighter V
Unclear context on him actually leading anything. While it says he worked his way up the ranks, other data on the page also says he is the sole survivor of his generation because of the tests and training. Can a leader be the only person left when it is designed to weed them to one person?
This in no way shows how she is a leader based on her strength.
1750-2-The Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes Season Two Antagonists
968-3- Final Fantasy XIII-2
Misuse. It shows no connection between strength and leadership.
1665-4-Star Wars: The Old Republic - Imperial Class / Sith Warrior
Misuse. It doesn’t detail why the Warrior is made leader, whether because it is the player character, story reasons, or the warrior is the strongest.
3411 -5- Forsaken Chronicle
Misuse. It just states a strong person and leader. No conditional relationship between them.
3444 -6- Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
Misuse. It doesn’t state the conditional relationship showing these guys are leaders because they are strong.
78>680 -7- Bungo Stray Dogs Port Mafia
Misuse. It is not clear at all he became an executive because of his combat skills.
819-8-Doubt Academy Tora Roster
Misuse. It doesn’t demonstrate any leadership or correlation between strength and leadership.
1489-9 Pokemon The Great Adventure Silver Team
Misuse. No correlation stated between strength and leadership. And it’s Silver’s team, so presumably he’s the leader overall, and Silver is just a human guy thus weaker than most Pokemon. So, she isn’t the real leader.
1332 -10- Mega Man Zero Allies
887 - 11 Eclipse
Misuse. It doesn’t state if this is how she became a leader. It feels like a self-demonstrating argument.
2445 -12- My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic - Season 6
Misuse. While there can be competitions to determine leadership, they need to be combat-related. A race to a goal with no combat mandated between participants counts.
1696 -13- Super Mario RPG
Badly written example. It doesn’t describe how he is the leader of his dojo for being the strongest.
9 Good
4 Misuse
5 ZCE
1 Unclear
1 Index
This is potentially a good example because the guy is a leader but it isn’t said in this example.
\* AsskickingEqualsAuthority: His stregnth is what helps him keep the village under control. [[spoiler:What gave him the position of leader in the first place was slaughtering the first leader Thrudgelmir.]]
This is a wholly good example as it says he is a leader because of a feat of strength and combat skills.
767-2- Dawn of War 3-Good, 1 Misuse, caveat: This trope is not shown on the main page as a story trope and only one other character page had any wicks. So while individually the below might look good, this isn’t established as a common trope of the universe.
Good example. His leadership is stated to be conditional on kicking his subordinates ass if they try to disobey him.
Good example. Earned is a conditional verb so the example demonstrates the If P, then Q quality.
Good example. Earned is a conditional verb so the example demonstrates the If P, then Q quality.
Nope. Misuse. It fails to show a conditional relationship between strength and leadership.
1244 -3- League Of Legends Themes A To M 1 Good, 1 Misuse, 1 Unclear
Good example. The Queens become leaders in their society on the condition of winning combat tournaments.
1926 -4- Transformers Prime Predacons 1 good, 1 ZCE.
Good example. The example details how he took control and maintains it by force.
ZCE. It doesn’t comment on his leadership in the linked part nor a conditional relationship between the two.
301 - 5- The Leader 1 Index, 2 Good examples, 3 ZCE.
Index example in a list of leadership qualities.
Zero Context. The trope is inserted as though it is self-demonstrating, which isn’t acceptable.
.
Good Example. It cites their leadership is conditional on their strength and kicking ass.
.
ZCE. It doesn’t demonstrate how he used his asskicking to attain leadership.
.
ZCE. It doesn’t demonstrate how he used his asskicking to attain leadership. Note, this is the line right after the above as well.
.
Good example. It cites her leadership being conditional to her strength.
1175 -6- Ive Been Killing Slimes For 300 Years And Maxed Out My Level 1 Good, 1 Misuse
Good example. While it isn’t a full true example, it does cite it as a played with trope.
.
Misuse. It lists her as a strong demon and leader, but not that her leadership is conditional on that strength.
.
3556 -7- W40k: Tropes I to P 1 Misue 1 ZCE
Misuse. It lists leaders and their capabilities, but not that their leadership is conditional on this strength.
.
ZCE. It just lists the trope with no context.
.
- Good: 12/60 20%
- Provisionally Good: 5/60 8.33%
- Zero Context Examples 20/60 33.3333333%
- Unclear or Ambiguous: 3/60 5%
- Misuse 13/60 21.667%
- Index 0/60 0%
- Multiple wicks 7/60 11.667%
- Good: (12+9)/74 12.1216%
- Provisionally Good: (5+1)/74 8.108%
- Zero Context Examples (20+5)/74 33.783%
- Unclear or Ambiguous: (3+1)/74 5.405%
- Misuse (13+4)/74 22.972%
- Index (0+1)/74 1.351%
Authority Equals Asskicking wick check:
Total Wicks as of 7/12/2022 is 5391. The number to check is around 78. I am checking an even 80. Note for basic definition In other words, In this world’s setting if you're The Leader because you're the toughest, then that is Ass=Auth. If you're the toughest because you're The Leader then that is Auth = Ass. This is a world-setting trope not a character based trope. However, I won’t automatically dismiss a wick as a misuse if it links to a character page. I will examine the main page(s) of the media to see if the trope is listed there.The problem with both is the term Equals which has in it a basic logical issue of equivalence. If A=B, then they are the same thing irregardless of orientation. So B=A. This means these trope names are the same thing, which their definitions show they aren’t. The names should be changed to Authority Requires, or necessitates or implies Asskicking, or maybe All Leaders Kick Ass something to show the conditional nature of the trope definition and it not being a character trope.
A related issue in this ambiguity is this trope is meant to be about the world-setting not just a single strong warrior who is also a leader, as noted on discussions here and here. As such looking at the total list and using find and replace on google excel, there are about 2,740 instances of this being on character pages. Or 50.8% of all current wicks.
In regards to what I expect to find, I expect there will be rampant misuse in the manner of P and Q examples not the required If P then Q, or to be specific, they will cite the person as a leader and strong, but not cite a conditional relationship between them.
Set numbers:
Set 1: 1043, 1464, 1647, 2157, 4033, 4525, 5052, 5603
Set 2: 114, 333, 464, 1869, 2179, 2301, 3690, 3758
Set 3: 468, 880, 2145, 2746, 3622, 4880, 4886, 4986
Set 4: 1211, 1631, 1663, 2678, 2998, 3151, 4280, 5518
Set 5: 445, 888, 1272, 1395, 2304, 3647, 4451, 5491
Set 6: 220, 1487, 2013, 3091, 4092, 4544, 5093, 5253
Set 7: 933, 1449, 1450, 2731, 2892, 3899, 4455, 5498
Set 8: 814, 3186, 3338, 3716, 4084, 4752, 5298, 5413
Set 9: 132, 244, 984, 1293, 2494, 3487, 3942( to become 3943)note , 5317
Set 10: 129, 398, 1127, 1321, 2853, 3049, 3896 (to become 3897)note , 4534
4033 Book of Judges
Cites the judges as both leaders of the judiciary but also skilled and dangerous fighters in the ancient Jewish societies. While not representing the whole world, it reflects this society. I will give it a tepid approval.
3647 The Vasto of White
Borderline good example. If he is the leader, then he needs to defend his spot. If he is defending his spot, then he needs to be tougher than others. Ergo, If he is the leader, then he needs to be tougher than others.
4092 Morgenregen: The Black Forest Fairy
4544 Game of Thrones S1E3: "Lord Snow"
If you're the toughest, then you train hard. If you train hard, then you have the rank and money to get training. If you have the rank and money to get training, then you are nobility. If you are nobility, then you are a leader. Ergo, If you are the toughest then you are a leader. It also describes the world setting for these kingdoms.
5063 5 Second Films 1
This is ZCE as it just potholes some words to the trope in this poorly done meme trope.
464 Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft 2
2179 Pathfinder Fiendish Divinities 3
2301 Red Alert 3 Paradox Expanded Universe 4
468 Shining Resonance 5
3622 The Bridge 6
** ''Princesses'' of Equestria, Luna and Celestia on the Equestrian side; and ''King'' of the Monsters, Godzilla on the Kaiju side. =]
** On the villain side, almost all of the major Equestrian villains [[spoiler: Grogar's students]] had/have a royal title; Sombra was a tyrant king of the Crystal Empire for a time, Chrysalis is the queen of the changelings; and going off the comics, Tirek was the crown prince in a faraway kingdom.
ZCE as all it says is their titles but nothing else. Not if one set is stronger than others, or how prevalent this trope is in their worlds. Or how being leaders came from their being strong.
4880 Iron Kingdoms 7
4888 Tabletop Game/Stratego has two links. 8
With the lack of story of the game, it is hard to tell if this should even apply to the game. Plus, should the “toughest” be able to be defeated by only the weakest piece or bomb? There are other tropes which could better exemplify the pieces having set rotations of victory and defeat. Tactical Rock–Paper–Scissors comes to mind.
ZCE as it seems to be just put in there as those are the strongest pieces in the game save for the spy or bombs who can take them out.
1663 Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 9
ZCE as it doesn’t detail in any way how being the leader in a soviet group means he is strong. Add in, his superior is weaker than him, so this is not a world-setting.
3151 Virtual Warrior World 10
* AuthorityEqualsAsskicking: A competent warrior in his own right.
* AuthorityEqualsAsskicking: Leader of [=RockClan, as well as a competent warrior.=]
Each one doesn’t describe how strong the characters are or how being the leader necessitated their being strong.
445 Critical Role Followers Of The False Serpent 11
ZCE. This is just plugged into the example but doesn’t describe anything about the Plank King being a leader consequently meant he is strong.
5491 Netherworld Chronicles 12
ZCE as it gives nothing to the trope. It describes no conditional relationship between power and leadership.
220 Pregnant Badass 13
ZCE and was put into the link. It fails to show any conditional relationship.
3091 Universal Wrestling Federation Hook N Shoot 14
3889 The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel 15
4084 Legend of the Galactic Heroes 16
5413 Mass Effect 3 17
The link is just plopped into a line without any context to the trope. ZCE.
132 Hero Unit 18
2494 Spartacus Blood And Sand Antagonists Blood And Sand 19
3942 to becomes 3943 One Piece 20
1043 Characters/Demonbane 1
This is a misuse as it doesn’t describe any reason why being the leader of his group makes him the strongest, and it is unclear if this is a trope applying to other groups as well.
2157 Out of Place, Out of Time 2
In no way does this describe him being the strongest fighter of his group. Badass creds don't equal strongest.
1464 Gen¹³ 3
Misuse as this only describes the individual and isn’t reflecting on the whole society. Looking at the main media page, both comic and animation, Authority Equals Asskicking doesn’t even show up.
1647 I Don't Want This Kind of Hero 4
Misuse as it doesn’t make reference if this is a common thing in her world. Looking at the main page and the villains, it doesn’t seem to be, so it fails to be a subset of the world fitting the trope.
Misuse as it doesn’t make reference if this is a common thing in her world. Looking at the main page and the villains, it doesn’t seem to be, so it fails to be a subset of the world fitting the trope.
5425 Asterix and the Chariot Race 5
While the princesses might have kickass capabilities, this is not shown to be a common fact of this fiction. It also doesn’t show how them being princesses necessarily means they are strong. So it is a misuse.
5052 Crab War 6
This is a misuse because the example just says, “X is the leader and X is strong.” It isn’t stating the necessity for the King crabs to be stronger to earn their leadership role.
114 Fight Clubbing 7
Misuse because it doesn’t describe if the whole game runs on the same concept of the trope.
1869 MCU: Criminals & Terrorists – Fisk Crime Ring 8
3690 Arrow: The Ultimate Weapon 9
Misuse as it doesn’t state that Min-soon is strong by virtue of being a leader. It doesn’t even say if this applies to the enemy side as well, failing the world aspect of the trope.
3758 Natural Born Killers 10
Misuse because it just says he is strong and a leader. It doesn’t say if he became warden on virtue of his strength.
880 Chain Chronicle Soldiers 11
While he might work as a strong leader, there is no indication in the series whole that this trope applies to other groups save for another character mentioned.
2145 One Piece: Water 7 12
Misuse. This would only be a genuine subversion if a majority of leaders in the world were all capable of kicking ass, but plenty of them are not the strong kick ass people. This isn’t a world-covering trope for ‘’One Piece’’.
2746 The Dragon and the Bow 13
Misuse as this doesn’t establish this trope being present for all other viking tribes and if Stoik got the position because of his ability to kick ass.
4986 Alchemy Stars 14
Misuse. It doesn’t describe how being a leader grants him this power. Add in the true leader of the group is the player’s character controlling them, and that character cannot kick ass, he needs these strong servants.
1631 How to Train Your Dragon Films - Outcast Tribe 15
2998 Trails Series Erebonia Ironblood 16
While it establishes him as a leader and a fighter, it doesn’t show the conditional aspect that if one is a leader then one can kick ass. It is also not clear if this is a trope across a majority of the series.
4280 Manga/Wolfsmund 17
** Sir Berthold as the gatekeeper knight of Wolfsmund, besting many skilled rebels that were able to slaughter the regular Hapsburg soldiers.
** Wolfram proved to be this as well. Despite the depiction as a SissyVillain, he proved to be a NotSoHarmlessVillain by being expertly skilled with short swords.
The first example is misuse as it doesn’t identify if the gatekeeper knight is a leader of his unit. The second example doesn’t demonstrate how being a leader necessitated Wolfram being strong. It also isn’t clear if this applies to other organizations.
5518 Adventures of the Gummi Bears 18
While the king is a strong fighter, it doesn’t describe the necessity of his strength to being a leader. It also isn’t clear if this trope works for all the other groups.
888 Child of the Storm: Villainous Groups 19
1272 Fairy Tail Redux Salamanders Time Traveling Escapades World Government 20
1395 First Encounter Assault Recon - United States Military 21
2304 Red Sonja (1985) 22
Just being a strong leader doesn’t qualify for this trope. Misuse.
1487 Ghost Recon Wildlands Santa Blanca Cartel 23
2013 Miraculous The Phoenix Rises Team Arctic 24
It fails to show any causal relationship between leadership and strength.
5093 Earthworm Jim 25
While she is the leader and possibly strong, it doesn’t state she is the strongest of her minions nor does it show any causal relationship between the two.
5253 Secret Service 26
Tough villain and mob leader, sure, but fails to describe the conditional relationship between the two.
933 Codex Equus Second Age Heroes 27
Fails to show the conditional aspect of the trope.
1449 Game of Thrones - Stannis Baratheon 28
While a skilled fighter is exemplified, it fails to show the conditional nature of the trope and how his strength came from being a leader.
1450 Game of Thrones - Supernatural Beings 29
Fails to show the conditional nature of the trope. Misuse.
2731 The Crown & the Flame 30
2892 The Spartan Legacy Shipmasters Forces 31
Misuse. His strength and leadership are not shown to be conditional towards each other.
5498 Study Group 32
Misuse. It states no conditional relationship between their being leaders and kicking ass.
814 Blue SWAT 33
There is no conditional referenced between the power of the person and leadership.
3186 Warhammer 40,000: Chaos Marines 34
While both examples list a strong leader, they don’t reference any conditional relationship between being a leader and kicking ass.
3338 Alone 35
3716 Equilibrium 36
5298 Sword of the Stars 37
984 Dangan Ronpa RPG 38
1293 Fallout: New Vegas - Honest Hearts 39
* AuthorityEqualsAsskicking: Several characters in Zion remark that Salt leads from the front, and has personally killed hundreds of the White Legs' enemies with his custom power fist. Depending on player level, he has about 600-800 hit points and 16 DT, which makes him nearly as durable as Legate Lanius himself, who has 920 hit points and 18 DT. This is in addition to him having a rating of 100 in Unarmed and the second highest speed of any human NPC. Graham can still curbstomp him effortlessly, though.]
3487 Dragon Ball Z Abridged 40
Misuse and ZCE. The one who becomes leader only did it because he got to eat Guru’s head and so absorbed the bulk of Guru’s power, not because he was the toughest of the surviving Namekians (and that would be Piccolo at this moment).
5317 The Last Story 41
Both are misuses. The generals’ position isn’t mentioned to be because he can kick ass. And the aversion fails to note if this trope is a common thing in the world, thus explaining why he is an aversion to the world’s common feature.
1127 Dragon Ball: Jiren 42
1321 Fate: The Winx Saga 43
2853 The Pirates Who Don't Do Anything: A VeggieTales Movie 44
3049 Turn 45
Misuse. Leadership in the Continental army wasn’t dependent on kicking the most ass. And it fails to show any correlation between him being leader and kicking ass.
4534 Black Lightning (2018) S 1 E 2 "LaWanda: The Book of Hope" 46
Misuse as it doesn’t show any correlation between strength and leadership.
This is a Neutral index wick.
* Quite common in ''TabletopGame/{{Warhammer}}''. With AuthorityEqualsAsskicking and armed with AncestralWeapon this means that several of them are capable to take down large monsters and demons.
Misuse as it doesn’t describe how being a princely fighter means they are necessarily strong.
* Artos who becomes the 'Warrior King' in the single-player campaign for the computer game ''VideoGame/WarriorKings''. He starts off as the son of a powerful baron and when his dad is murdered at the command of the Big Bad of the game, Artos leads an uprising and conquers province after province eventually owning the entire empire in the name of vengeance and either scientific enlightenment, the One God or the tribal gods of the pagans. Artos is very much the picture of [[AuthorityEqualsAssKicking Authority Equals Ass Kicking]], barring the demons, the big bad and his 2nd, there is no unit more powerful than Artos and that's before he gains increased stats and new powers.
Close but still misuse as it doesn’t describe if Artos being a warrior king is typical for all other leaders. It needs more information.
1121 2 Dragon Age – Races 1 ZCE, 2 using Ass=Auth not this trope.
ZCE as it doesn’t describe how being the leader would make them strong.
On the first bullet, that isn’t this trope. That is more fitting with Asskicking Equals Authority. Asskicking becomes a prerequisit for advancing in rank.
The second bullet is also better suited for Asskicking equals Authority as it describes, though ultimately propaganda, the same type of behavior.
2678 3 TerraforMARS 1 Misuse, 1 ZCE
Misuse as it doesn’t describe how other leaders in the setting are strong because they are leader types.
ZCE. Examples are not self-evident.
244 4 Royals Who Actually Do Something 1 index, 2 ZCE
Index reference.
ZCE. It is just put in there with no reference to anything else in series about this trope and how leadership is conditional on asskicking
-> * In ''TabletopGame/YuGiOh'', there are the Monarchs (Emperors in Japan), an archetype of Monsters based on Attributes; all the base Monarchs (except Zaborg) are Level 6, [[AuthorityEqualsAsskicking they all have an ATK of 2,400]], there is one for each Attribute (except Light, which has two), and most gain their effects from being Tribute Summoned. [[http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Mobius_the_Mega_Monarch Mobius the Mega Monarch]] is an evolved Level 7 form of one of them, released in the latest set, suggesting more Mega Monarchs are to follow.
ZCE. The trope seems to be plopped in there with no real reference to the trope’s meaning. No mention if these cards have some hierarchy to qualify as leadership.
398 5 Phantasy Star Online 2: The Animation 1 misuse. 1 ZCE
** [[spoiler: Quna acts as Aika's direct superior, a [[LateArrivalSpoiler Late]] ''[[LateArrivalSpoiler EPISODE 1]]'' [[LateArrivalSpoiler Spoiler]] that she is the highest-ranking member OF The Council Of Six.]]
The first example is a misuse. It fails to show any correlation between the leadership and being strong.
The second one is ZCE as it fails to mention any strength or anything about the trope.
3896 to become 3897 6 Tropes A to E 2 Good examples, 1 misuse. 1 ZCE
Line 1 is just the trope line.
Line 2 mentions he needed his strength to become leader and beat others. Good example.
It’s an index link in the trope’s description.
The wick is in the portfolio line, so not a viable examination.
4455 Pantheon/Weather
The wick is in the portfolio line, so not a viable examination.
4752 The Wikia Editor
ZCE and Unclear 20/80 25%
General misuse 46/80 57.5%
Wicks with multiple entries not all same results 6/80 7.5%
Neutral / Indexes 1/80 1.25%
Pantheon Listings 3/80 3.75%
I will admit even I was shocked to see over 75% were bad examples of this trope and not even 10% of the random generated list was a good example. Even if I include the subset numbers from Wick entries with multiple examples not uniform in response, that brings the total wicks checked to 6/97, or 6.19%, though that doesn’t include wicks with multiple entries that are the same result.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 15th 2023 at 6:52:01 AM
Ah, whoops, forgot to unstar the thread when I hooked the current crowner, since we haven't completely decided on the final course of action yet, so I fixed that. I'll put the star back once the crowner is done.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 21st 2023 at 8:06:06 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I suppose the Laconic and the Playing With for Rank Scales with Asskicking should be rewritten. They're not very good summaries (in fact, they're misleading). Off the top of my head: "The higher someone is in a hierarchy, the stronger they are. Logic be damned."
Edited by Gosicrystal on Feb 21st 2023 at 3:08:40 PM
I swapped in your Laconic text because I can't think of any more changes, and I just cut the Playing With page because it would probably have to be remade from scratch if it doesn't match the definition.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.I think we can call the crowner as it's been over 3 days.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper WallCalling crowner in favor of merging the Sandbox.Authority Grants Asskicking draft with the Position of Literal Power trope under the name Position of Literal Power.
Macron's notesWhich description shall we use? Looking back on the one I made, there are a couple of points that aren't that great... I rewrote it to incorporate the magic variant, and to polish some aspects of the physical variant. The last and second-to-last paragraph can be swapped if you think it flows better.
Other times, however, the power gap between higher-ups and lower-downs is justified. When you are promoted to a higher position, you can get access to an exclusive weapon or special equipment that enhances your combat capabilities, or some sort of magical powers tied to the position itself. Rising through the ranks so you can get your hands on those might as well be one of the best ways to become stronger in that world.
This is not restricted to military settings, however. It can be any type of hierarchy where the higher positions themselves come with inherent asskicking that one loses access to if demoted. For example, a country's ancestral weapon could only be wielded by the prince or the king.
Unjustified examples of leaders being stronger than subordinates go to Rank Scales with Asskicking. Compare Asskicking Leads to Leadership, when you get promoted precisely because you're an ass-kicker already — that trope and this one can coexist if the strong person gets stronger due to the promotion.
Not directly related to Place of Power though such a place might come with the position, or a "seat of literal power" although they can certainly overlap. Can overlap with The Perils of Being the Best if needed.
Edited by Gosicrystal on Feb 25th 2023 at 1:55:35 PM
Rank Scales with Asskicking doesn't really have the same ring to it for me.
I'd like to bring your attention to this part of the descriptipon for Asskicking Leads to Leadership (the part in italics is mine):
As we agreed upon, Rank Scales with Asskicking is not "he's tough because he's the leader". It's just a correlation, not a causal relationship. I think it should be changed to:
Edited by Gosicrystal on Mar 7th 2023 at 4:58:27 PM
Had a quick look at the postings themselves, and not much at the thread because the general cause seems to check out for me. I just have this one issue:
Authority Grants Asskicking - to me, "Authority" is the independent variable because it's the Title that grants the powers, so that name checks out.
Rank Scales With Asskicking - This one, not so much. To me, it's the dependent variable that "scales with" something. The way this trope is named lends more to "More Asskicking Leads To Higher Leadership" instead of "Increased Authority Grants Greater Asskicking" which, by the description's first sentence, appears to be the intent.note So I would say that the name should be inverted to Asskicking Scales With Rank
EDIT: And now I just read your most recent edit and that the Trope in question deals with the appearance of the more concrete Tropes. Which means that both the present name and my suggestion are inappropriate due to invoking The Same, but More when that really isn't the case. I'd start with the Super Trope of Asskicking And Authority Are Tied [Together] and go from there. And if we can't find a better name, then perhaps keep the current name with my suggestion as a redirect.
Edited by DonaldthePotholer on Mar 12th 2023 at 8:22:15 AM
Ketchum's corollary to Clarke's Third Law: Any sufficiently advanced tactic is indistinguishable from blind luck.No, there is no dependent or independent variable here. Rank Scales with Asskicking is the observation of a correlation: two things appear together in the same proportion. High rank, high asskicking. Low rank, low asskicking. The trope doesn't revolve around the cause.
It's not that more asskicking leads to higher leadership. That's Asskicking Leads to Leadership, one of the causes of Rank Scales with Asskicking. It's not "Increased Authority Grants Greater Asskicking" either - that would be more akin to Position of Literal Power/Authority Grants Asskicking (as per the sandbox definition). Because it's a correlation, Rank Scales with Asskicking = Asskicking Scales With Rank. The order of the words doesn't matter because there is no causality in the title.
Not sure I understand what you mean by this.
Edited by Gosicrystal on Mar 12th 2023 at 4:21:23 PM
On the subject of Position of Literal Power, how is the merge of the description of Sandbox.Authority Grants Asskicking with the description of Main.Position Of Literal Power going?
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 22nd 2023 at 8:12:53 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Might be a little late, but I want to weight in.
I like "Asskicking Grants Authority" over "Asskicking Leads To Leadership." It makes the trope more related to "Authority Grants Asskicking," and makes the causal relationships more clear. You have Asskicking, thus you are granted Authority. Or you have a Authority, thus you are granted Asskicking. The one hang-up I see is that one of these is a direct cause and effect, the other a narrative trend. In Asskicking Grants Authority, the societal structure is set up so that the mightiest member is the leader. In Authority Grants Asskicking, there's just a tendency for leaders to be competent fighters, even if their leadership position requires precisely zero training or experience in fighting.
We're not changing the name of Asskicking Leads to Leadership because wick cleanup is already done for it, meaning it would be too time-consuming to change it again ("I like this name better" isn't a valid reason to rename a trope; we need evidence of a real problem), and we've already got two other tropes to go through with moving Authority Equals Asskicking's examples between Rank Scales with Asskicking and Position of Literal Power. The only remaining wicks were mistakenly added post-rename.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 22nd 2023 at 6:39:21 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.OK, mod hat off because this part isn't a mod thing. I transplanted some of the text from Sandbox.Authority Grants Asskicking's description to Main.Position Of Literal Power's description, but I didn't cut the sandbox partially because I haven't touched the examples yet, and partially because I'm not sure how well I did with merging the descriptions and would appreciate feedback regarding how it looks.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 22nd 2023 at 6:47:17 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.To be honest, I'm reconsidering my stance about Position of Literal Power. Magical power versus physical power... Yes, they both make the person more powerful, but I suspect they are played differently in stories.
For physical power, the character is usually handed new items. Or, if the story takes place in the present day, they have access to nukes like the presidents from US and Russia do. For works set in ancient times, I suppose this could show up as a king being able to command an army to do what he wants ("invade this neighboring country", "kill everyone in this rogue town").
For magic, the character is usually powered up instantly and can affect the world using abilities from within their body.
External versus internal power. If that makes sense. Is this a sufficient distinction? I'm not sure anymore.
Edited by Gosicrystal on Mar 22nd 2023 at 1:14:15 PM
I'll defer to others on whether overturning that decision in favor of separating the two would be a good idea, partially because I still haven't been feeling the best lately (even if I'm better than I was last week), and partially because the decision to overturn the decision to rename Precision F-Strike a month ago was exhausting.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 22nd 2023 at 8:18:44 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Back at it with the dewicking. I would like to take care of the wicks on Main pages, but I have some doubts as to what to do, because I lack context. Please weigh in. Here's a recap:
- Anti-Mutiny: I don't see the relationship between the anti mutiny and the strength of the "higher powers". Maybe the higher powers will beat up the crew if they don't do their duty?
- Cannot Tell a Joke: Is there real violence in The Office? And the boss is the strongest?
- Degraded Boss: Not sure if Rank Scales with Asskicking or Asskicking Leads to Leadership applies here.
- Throwing Down the Gauntlet: Is it Peter or Miraz who "establishes his credentials" as High King? If Peter, does that mean he's invoking Asskicking Leads to Leadership? If Miraz, does it mean he got the position of king through force (so Asskicking Leads to Leadership too)? Or something else entirely is happening here? I'm not familiar with Narnia.
- Troperiffic: Maybe it's a case of Position of Literal Power, if magic is tied to the position of king.
- Unexpected Successor: So is he the strongest being because of his position, e.g. Position of Literal Power? Or is it just a correlation with no causation involved, e.g. Rank Scales with Asskicking? If the latter, it's badly worded and the "by right of his position" part needs to go.
- Vampire Monarch: One thing is becoming king through asskicking, and another thing entirely is maintaining the position - that can be done because they were already the strongest or thanks to the tools that come with the position. So what trope is it, if any?
- Wrestling Monster: The example says "justifying his position". Does that mean he earned it through asskicking? Or again, is it just a badly worded mere correlation between rank and asskicking? The previous text doesn't suggest he made his way up by force. I'm not familiar with wrestling at all, so I don't know how this goes.
Edited by Gosicrystal on Mar 28th 2023 at 5:07:24 PM
OK, something concerns me about the wicks. A lot of them basically boil down to "the leader of this group is strong/isn't afraid to fight/can kick ass when needed", but they don't explicitly say that they're stronger than their underlings. Up until now I've treated them as correct examples, but I have the nagging feeling that some tropers have the wrong idea in mind and lump it with Rank Scales with Asskicking. Kinda like the Missing Supertrope Syndrome, if that makes sense. These examples, as written, don't establish the A > B > ... > Y > Z concept this trope is trying to convey (where A is stronger than/above B and B is stronger than/above C, etc.), and just leave it at "this leader is not a pushover". Heck, some of them say the leader is exactly as strong as the underlings. What about those? Are they still valid because they sell the idea that, unlike in real life, these leaders aren't weaker than the subordinates? Is this a case of Tropes Are Flexible or Square Peg Round Trope?
Edited by Gosicrystal on Apr 11th 2023 at 4:30:28 PM
I'd say those kinds of examples are all partial examples, i.e. ZCE and should be removed.
Found this curious example on Manga.The Legend Of Koizumi.
- Authority Equals Asskicking: Apparently being a current or former Head of State means you're awesome at mahjong.
- Head of State is probably elected based on their mahjong power.
- The Pope is elected solely based on who wins the mahjong conclave.
Indentation issues aside... Is this even a valid example? It's mahjong. I don't know this manga at all, but it doesn't sound like people are punching/shooting/cutting each other. By the looks of it, people who are very good at playing Mahjong get elected, which sounds a lot like Asskicking Leads to Leadership.
But that's not all. This isn't the first example I've seen in the wicks that reads more like Rank Scales With Competence, where Competence is any skill-based activity like lawyeringnote or playing sportsnote . Do you think that could be a supertrope to Rank Scales with Asskicking? Combat is also a skill, after all.
Edited by Gosicrystal on May 2nd 2023 at 11:58:53 AM
I recently got a PM regarding me dewickibg the trope here
I replied to them that the trope has been renamed per TRS and link this thread.
Edit: I got a reply from the user who asked why I didn't move the examples to the new trope. I replied that I don't know if they really fit so I just deleted them. With that in mind, do the examples I link above seem valid for any of the new tropes?
Edited by Ayumi-chan on May 19th 2023 at 11:13:46 PM
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/AThe person who PMed you is suspended from the wiki and has four "not a trope" notifiers, so I suspended them from PMs and added a note saying they're disregarding those notifiers (they were suspended for indentation problems originally).
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 19th 2023 at 10:14:59 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Is it possible to disambiguate the trope? Cause dewicking has been kinda slow.
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/AGo ahead and disambiguate if you have an idea for what to put.
Edit: Also, the to-do list was outdated and didn't account for the fact that we decided to merge examples of people gaining power directly associated with positions of authority after gaining said positions with Position of Literal Power (which we expanded to cover physical power in addition to supernatural power) instead of splitting off a new trope (which was going to be Sandbox.Authority Grants Asskicking before we overturned that decision).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 15th 2023 at 6:46:31 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Crown Description:
Concerns have been raised that the Sandbox.Authority Grants Asskicking draft for a proposed trope overlaps too much with the existing trope Position Of Literal Power. In particular, while the latter focuses on supernatural/magical power while the former mentions physical power, there have been concerns that the distinction between physical and supernatural power isn't a sufficient enough distinction, and that Tropes Are Flexible would allow room for both to be covered by the same trope. Should the two be merged, and if so, which name should be used?
Redirects' wick counts being included in the main page's wick count aren't quite a mod thing since anyone can move them to the new name (and the actual list of wicks only shows wicks from the main name), but the history (and the discussion page posts, for that matter) are still there because mods have a tool for moving pages without having to copy and paste, and that tool preserves the history (plus discussion pages' contents can be moved independently of the pages, though the same can't be done with page history, which can only be moved alongside discussion pages).
Initially, I used the page mover to move Authority Equals Asskicking to Authority Grants Asskicking, but after we decided the latter name didn't work, I did another move last night to move the page to Rank Scales with Asskicking. Most of the edits were made when the page was still called Authority Equals Asskicking.
This tool is also why Asskicking Leads to Leadership has so many edits, since the edit history from when it was called Asskicking Equals Authority was preserved.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 21st 2023 at 8:08:55 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.