- Jossed Theories
- Confirmed Theories
- Theories on the Order
- Theories on Team Evil
- Theories on the Linear Guild
- Theories on Divine Beings
- Because I haven't seen many people bring this up, because it would justify the necessity for adopting children without making him gay, and because it would not necessarily not make him gay (very male-looking mate much?). It would also explain why Haley has no trouble rooming with V (as someone who was raised in the streets and mistrusts everyone and thinks the worst of people often) and why (while it's stated that V is not a virgin) V isn't particularly lusty, especially when compared to every other member of the order.
- Elf. There's the horse to your zebra.
- Belkar could be a god who is forcibly bound as a mortal (a little tryst between a war god and a random halfling goddess of fertility and lead sheets, then a little messup involving a nasty bet which the other guy won), which explains why Belkar wanted Miko to kill him, thus freeing him to have fun eternally partying/excessively discovering ways to kill regenerating immortals. He would have been a good target to have him die at some point and have some terrible (or not) punishment in the Chaotic Evil afterlife (with multiple kilonazis of evil, why wouldn't he get the bad ending) after Roy's afterlife plotline. Belkar also has two devils, a slaad, and formerly an angel as his shoulder advisors, with the angel, after going insane, flutters off to heaven and is immediately put into Intensive Care, which other than the comedy value I don't see why it couldn't have just been "We're imaginary. He'll be fine." as with Haley's personality people. Those could have been created as a last-second manifestation of Belkar's deityhood which stuck around. He seems to be a little suicidal (Is charging into a huge army of hobgoblins good for your health? I thought not.) as he has a war-god passion for killing now that he can't party and drink tons of Immortal's Epic-Level Beer. He won't just stab himself with a knife and get it over with as he's having a LITTLE fun and it's likely just commiting suicide will reincarnate him at the next available opportunity. The Oracle's prediction is either going to be true (Belkar dies and gets time off before he is dragged back to the mortal plane from wherever he goes next via resurrection) or the Oracle just thinks birthday cakes are tasty and Belkar's IRA isn't going to end well (A little too much world-ending might drive an accountant insane deciding what is likely to not be collateral damage when one or an other party is epic-final-battling and Belkar's IRA is ruined after a government change with halflings) and he finds a reason not to breathe or breathes just before the year ends. Or he WILL die and be resurrected before an afterlife plotline can go into effect.
- Interestingly, Durkon has just died, so it looks like Belkar may end up this way as well.
- It seems in 895 that Roy is about to destroy the gate instead
- We know that elves reproduce, and even half-elf half-humans like Pompey are possible. Therefore, to fit with this theory, elves must be hermaphrodites of ambiguous gender somehow interfertile with humans. Which would hardly be the oddest thing in this setting. This explains why Pompey is so aggressively lecherous — he knows about his elf father/mother and is overcompensating.
- Or V is the author's way of sneaking a gay/lesbian character into the series (that's what the "my mate" comments, and the adopted children, bring to mind.)
- Lirian and Veldrina are both elves with concrete gender identities as female.
- Also, the patriarch of the Deegan family shown is a blonde-haired bard. And of course, both webcomics are based on D&D...
- Guess Jacob must be his father
- Dominic Deegan isn't D&D, but Donovan actually didn't have a last name before marrying Miranda Deegan because he was an orphan. Maybe Tarquin is his Evil Twin.
- Alternatively, Roy will become a Psion. Essentially the same thing, but he still gets to keep the moral high ground. A psion is also less easily detectable than a wizard. Psychic Warrior is also a possibility, albeit a less drastic one. And before you say it, there has been at least one psionic minor character in the comic, in Origin of the PCs.
- Roy has made reference to taking a level of psion; though it seemed sarcastic then, it may bear fruit. And a Fighter 12/Wizard 1 really isn't the sharpest of builds...As a throwaway gag, Elan does tell Roy he's a future psychic, but it's the Giant we're talking about here, he's left crumbs of future plot before.
- Also, consider Roy's favorite children's book.
- More proof towards this theory is the fact that Roy has a more delicious mind than Vaarsuvius, and the fact that he chose to go to fighter school instead of wizard school, implying that his intelligence would be high enough for the latter.
- One possible interpretation of Roy's more delicious mind is that he has both high intelligence and wisdom, and the sum of the two is greater for him than for V (who certainly behaves at times as if his wisdom is not that high). Roy's brain was pictured not just as more delicious, but as a fuller, more balanced meal.
- Also, in his fantasy fight with Xykon, he manages to see the magic energy Dream!Xykon accumulates and strikes it just before he casts it. I don't think vanilla fighters get this ability; in other words, the only way Roy could defeat Xykon is if he takes another class that allows him to do just this. Xykon even lampshades this by asking how he's able to do that in the first place.
- Roy has made reference to taking a level of psion; though it seemed sarcastic then, it may bear fruit. And a Fighter 12/Wizard 1 really isn't the sharpest of builds...As a throwaway gag, Elan does tell Roy he's a future psychic, but it's the Giant we're talking about here, he's left crumbs of future plot before.
- Alternatively, Roy will become a warblade. The class was created as a much stronger replacement for the underpowered fighter class, and has many abilities which depend on the user's Intelligence to use effectively. It also has a system of manoeuvres similar in mechanics terms to a wizard's spells.
- Or a warmind, Roy should may meet the prerequisites (just knowledge) barring training and a feat (his next feat from his grandfather could be [fighter]), he has decent wisdom, AND it is a full BAB class that doesn't hurt his fightering.
- I figure that this is an opportunity to bring in some 4e stuff - specifically he'd multiclass (as in 3.5) to either warlord (uses Int as a secondary stat) or maybe a warden.
- Something's definitely going on with Roy in Strip 1010, when he's enveloped by green flame after being pissed with the Vampire inhabiting Durkon. It's not the fIrst time that the Starmetal sword glowed green; it did so when Roy battled Xykon. But not to the extent shown in 1010. It is possible that he's something else other than a pure fighter now, or the Starmetal has some power when high-level undead are involved which activates when the plot demands.
- It's revealed that Roy's devotion to the weapon has made it into a Weapon of Legacy so Roy is now more or less a Magic Knight until he lost the sword in that airship fight.
- We may conclude from this that someone is going to be Killed Off for Real, if he hasn't been already.
- Recall that the dwarven member of the Order of the Scribble was killed in the final battle with the Snarl, and that Durkon has been informed he will be returned to his people "posthumously". Of course, the aforementioned prophecy implies that he does return to his people, and his dwarven predecessor appears to stay exactly where he died. And if he dies in dwarven lands, well then, he returned before he died so it's not "posthumously", is it? This may be a Prophecy Twist, because Death Is Cheap.
- Durkon could remain guarding a Gate outside of dwarven lands until his death of old age, which is not resurrectable; thus, he could still be sent home posthumously.
- Or it could be the other diminutive party member, who the Oracle said should "savor his next birthday cake".
- It's probably not Elan or Haley, on the other hand; Elan had a prophesied "happy ending", and it's hard to imagine him being happy without Haley beside him.
- Alternatively, Everybody Lives, and Elan and Haley guard a gate together.
- That's not very happy, is it?
- Having sex with a redheaded rogue with abnormally high dexterity on a regular basis? Or for the ladies, the same only with an easily malleable bard with maxed-out charisma? Truly a fate worse than death.
- Both Elan and Haley need to be around a lot of people—him so he can entertain them, her so she can rob them blind. They probably wouldn't be very happy out in the middle of nowhere.
- So give them the Azure City gate.
- Recall that the dwarven member of the Order of the Scribble was killed in the final battle with the Snarl, and that Durkon has been informed he will be returned to his people "posthumously". Of course, the aforementioned prophecy implies that he does return to his people, and his dwarven predecessor appears to stay exactly where he died. And if he dies in dwarven lands, well then, he returned before he died so it's not "posthumously", is it? This may be a Prophecy Twist, because Death Is Cheap.
- Half-celestials always have wings according to the standard template.
- Also, remember Haley's flashback, where she says "Mommy went to heaven last year", and her father Ian chews her out for divulging a piece of private information? We assumed that that was just Ian being paranoid, but what if Hailey was literal, her mother is a full-blown celestial, and she didn't die but just returned home?
- Alternatively, she has jokingly confessed to being "part dragon" — maybe she wasn't joking. And dragon ancestry would be a more plausible thing to be secretive about than celestial.
- This is more plausible then half-fiend or half-celestial, but half-dragons have claws also. The strip doesn't really go into that much detail, but I assume claws are too noticeable to hide.
- An armourer couldn't see she was wearing leather pants. Medium awareness has been a plot point before, I think.
- It should be noted that you can have fiend, dragon, or celestial blood without being a full half-whatever. These are tieflings (fiend), some sorcerers (dragon), and assamir (celestial) and even those are known to skip generations. (This is all from 3.5 D&D books as opposed to being mentioned in the strip itself
- Being an Aasimar isn't even as diluted as it can get. The 3.5 Planar Handbook has a feat called "Celestial Heritage", with Nonevil alignment being the only prerequisite. Something Haley could have easily picked up at any point in her adventuring career.
- This strip could be a form of Sarcastic Confession.
- More possible Dragon evidence: this strip. Classic Sarcastic Confession?
- Speaking of half-dragons, she seems to get very interested in a half-dragon figurine...
- This is more plausible then half-fiend or half-celestial, but half-dragons have claws also. The strip doesn't really go into that much detail, but I assume claws are too noticeable to hide.
- Yet another option is for Haley to have infernal ancestry, of the opposite side to Sabine (that is, demonic if Sabine's a devil, and vice versa). It's entirely possible for beings with such ancestry to be non-evil, after all.
- Not according to the standard template. Half-fiends also have wings and claws, which we would have noticed by now. Being a tiefling, however, is much more plausible, because not only is a tiefling only usually evil, it's got a set of abilities perfect for a rouge. It would be kinda hard to hide some of the bonuses, though.
- Have you ever seen Sabine's claws? It's a stick figure comic.
- She could be an Aasimar.
- Aasimar have bonuses that make them as good in a way that fits her play-style.
- Not according to the standard template. Half-fiends also have wings and claws, which we would have noticed by now. Being a tiefling, however, is much more plausible, because not only is a tiefling only usually evil, it's got a set of abilities perfect for a rouge. It would be kinda hard to hide some of the bonuses, though.
- And another is that Haley has Elemental blood, and will end up being related to Celia somehow.
- Note that all of these options bring the possibility of Haley suddenly gaining sorcerous abilities, and becoming the arcane caster in the prophecy.
- There is no half-elemental template in the Monster Manual, so that's a plus.
- And she will take the elemental infiltrator prestige class.
- I always assumed that line was going to end with "...a virgin". Makes sense considering the other things she tells him.
- Never mind, seems to be sorta-Jossed with comic 581.
- There's a big difference between being pregnant and having had sex at some point... even if protection doesn't exist in that universe, there is still only a 30% chance of getting pregnant on the best of days (for normal humans; we'd have to get all F.A.T.A.L. to find a game with rules on that, and honestly, who in their right mind would want that?)
- Yeah, she's only saying that that's not her problem, not that she's never had sex.
- Never mind, seems to be sorta-Jossed with comic 581.
- I have just realized how bizarre this is considering Haley is one of two party members whose parents are confirmed to be human(oid). Granted, not as much as Roy's parents, but it's still implied from the three or so references we get to them.
- Going over all these guesses, I would guess she's not a Celestial or Elemental, because she's ashamed of whatever it is. Maybe she's part-devil, but I kind of doubt it. Oh, and if you want to pull Exact Words on it, the quote is "Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call-"
- Maybe she's not ashamed of being Elemental or Celestial; maybe she's ashamed because she can't live up to it, because she's not "good enough" and that's why other good people have left her.
- She did have an aspect of her personally named "Haley's Latent Bisexuality". Maybe that sentence was going to send with "straight" ?
- "Latent" means present or potential, but never realized. She's straight. Besides, why would Rich have an Ellipsis of Drama for something revealed so willy-nilly.
- Latent means "present but not visible, apparent, or actualized; existing as potential" or "Psychology. existing in unconscious or dormant form but potentially able to achieve expression" So not necessarily. But I would think she wouldn't angst that much about telling Elan she's bisexual considering she already told him she'd kissed girls several times.
- In that same scene, (two pages later) she discusses to herself how her mother left her - the first of the "pure and good" people whom she loved to leave. Could mean her mother straight out walked out on her (and presumably her father), or could mean death. Why? And if her father is the source of her divergent ancestry, what does it mean that he's imprisoned by an Evil Overlord? Food for thought!
- Interestingly, in a recent strip we see a young Haley telling a stranger that her Mommy "went to Heaven." Could be her father's explanation of death to a child, but then why would Haley believe that her mother left her?
- What about her actually GOING to heaven, which would reinforce the idea of her being a holy... being.
- Well, considering Roy's talk with the Angel (particularly the comment about only celestials being entirely good), maybe this means her Mom's an Angel?
- In a recent strip we see Haley's Mom's death, so Haley's mother didn't leave her. Although with Fridge Logic maybe she refused to be raised, and that's why Haley considers it 'left'?
- "Latent" means present or potential, but never realized. She's straight. Besides, why would Rich have an Ellipsis of Drama for something revealed so willy-nilly.
- It occurred to me that even though all (most?) the half-templates for what's been discussed here have obvious attributes that seem to rule them out, that doesn't mean she couldn't be a quarter something.
- If I recall correctly, the descendant of any half-something is also a half-something. The child of a human and a half-elf would be half-elven, though look more human, and the Rogue grandchild of a half-orc, a half-elf, a human, and possibly a half-fiend would be a half-elf half-orc half-fiend Rogue.
- No, that only applies to the half-elves and orcs, if I remember correctly.
- For half-elves at least, there's an official ruling in the PH: 100% elf = elf, 50-99% elf = half elf, 0-49% elf = human. This also applies to half-orcs, IIRC.
- Templates work in a weird way though; 25% elf, 25% human, 50% dragon is a half-elf with the half-dragon template, for example, but unlike celestials and fiends there isn't a template for anything less than 50% in dragon, meaning that 1/4 dragon has the same stats as the base race but is eligible to become a sorcerer or a dragon disciple.
- Eventually it's got to stop applying, otherwise 3.5 tieflings, aasimar, zenythri (Law) and chaonds (chaos) wouldn't exist; their entire backstory is that they're humans with the faintest touch of outsider blood.
- One sourcebook (Unearthed Arcana, I believe) has rules for applying minor, medium and major non-humanoid bloodlines to the standard races. Presumably these are for characters who have non-human ancestry more diluted than that required for a half-whatever template or an alternate race like tiefling/aasimar.
- If I recall correctly, the descendant of any half-something is also a half-something. The child of a human and a half-elf would be half-elven, though look more human, and the Rogue grandchild of a half-orc, a half-elf, a human, and possibly a half-fiend would be a half-elf half-orc half-fiend Rogue.
- Wait just a second. Lords of Madness confirms that some aberrations (no idea which ones) can somehow interbreed with humans. And as long as the
Deep One hybridaberrant doesn't take the Aberration Blood feat and it goes back enough generations, nobody would really have to know. There's a whole category of feats that represent this kind of thing. There's even a prestige class for people descended from the victims of mind flayer experiments - the flayerspawn psychic. Just because there's something unpleasant hinted as part of Haley's family tree doesn't necessarily mean it comes from another plane. - Considering the circumstances, the casually self-assured front Haley presents to everyone, and the fact it's the very last thing she could bring herself to admit to anyone else, I have long suspected that the missing word was "confident". Which is self-explanatory, as lack of confidence is why she couldn't bring herself to admit it.
- Yeah, but "I'm not confident" isn't what you'd call a deep seeded secret, not one that she'd suspect is the reason for her inability to talk.
- I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and add the 'wild' back into WMG. What if Haley is Redcloak's niece? Think about it, Right-Eye smuggled his daughter out of Xykon's camp and left her to be raised by "humans or worse", so that probably means he just left her somewhere. Maybe he found a way to disguise her as a human; Haley's parents seem like the type of people who would adopt a homeless child. I know it's probably not true, but wouldn't that be a fun twist?
- Wait wait wait, Wikipedia has an article on the Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity but couldn't decide if we existed?
- The injustice!
- Sorry for cutting to the top and everything, but remember the triple Soul Splice deal hinges on the fact that Vaarsuvius need to die to give up his soul to help the demon/devil/daemon alliance thing.
- Don't forget that Belkar also specified "or you (the oracle)." We may only get to see another kobold with a few dozen stab wounds. Not that it wouldn't be as satisfying.
- Alternately, Belkar already caused Roy's death, by giving him the ring of jumping.
- Does that really count as "causing his death," though? It enabled Roy to get at Xykon, but you could just as easily say that the castle parapet he leaped from caused his death as the ring.
- Look at it this way: You can claim that Roy died because of many things: He doesn't have wings, the ground wasn't made of marshmallows, Xykon's Meteor Swarm, and even the law of gravity. The fact is that Roy fell off of the dragon, and was only able to get on the dragon with Belkar's Ring of Jumping. And if that's not good enough for you, he killed the Oracle, but as said below, the "or" could be inclusive or exclusive.
- Does that really count as "causing his death," though? It enabled Roy to get at Xykon, but you could just as easily say that the castle parapet he leaped from caused his death as the ring.
- Jossed!
- Do you mean that Belkar killing Vaarsuvius is Jossed? It's still possible. The "or" could be inclusive, rather than exclusive, and the yes means that he kills both the Oracle and Vaarsuvius. If he survives the Mark of Justice, of course...
- Depending on how much you trust what the Oracle was saying beforehand, (s)he may have regarded it as a "yes" to any or a "yes" to as many as apply. And the Orcale was about to talk about V before Belkar interrupted.
- Such an "or" statement answered with "yes" can be used as a "Answer Choice E for everything". I can already see a way to blame Belkar if V dies as a wild result of V's Faust deal. But it will be nigh impossible to tell before Burlew does or not since he clearly comes to this site and likes to subvert fan expectations.
- Belkar will kill V because V has sold his soul and someone needs to Shoot the Dog. Balkar's not the most noble person to do it, but he has more reason to do it than anyone else. He may die in the attempt, but he will get it done. If this is to become a happier ending, V's death voids the contract and somehow elevates V to having even greater strength, and enough time to redeem himself. In this case, V's words would be, "Belkar. Kill me now," or something to that effect. V would be saying the right words at the right time, but because he wants to be put out of his misery, they're for the wrong reasons.
- "Out of his misery"? I think it's abundantly clear that V gets off on power. The only misery I could see happening would come if s/he were forced to see all that s/he had done, and became weighed down by guilt. And even if that happens (V seems to be an expert at rationalizing ways for hir to be in the right) hir work ethic, determination, pride and (ChaoticStupid sometimes skewed but still there) moral compass means s/he's probably the sort to go on some epic quest for redemption, rather than become suicidal.
- I think it'll be the reverse- Vaarsuvius will kill Belkar. Belkar is fated to die, and V is the only one in the party who would be willing to do it.
- Furthermore, if someone kills V because s/he kills Belkar, that could possibly count.
- That said, the exact wording precludes a normal Rez. That's pretty much the only way he could stay "alive". That said, Liches are almost always powerful Arcane casters, which Belkar is not.
- Or it could be time travel.
- Rangers can become Liches, they just need a caster level of 11 (arcane or divine matters not.) HOWEVER as rangers have a caster level equal to half their character level Belkar would need to get to level 22 (and thus well into epic) before the end of the year, highly unlikely.
- Don't tell him that, he'll take it as a challenge.
- Or he could make a deal similar to Vaarsuvius and perform the ritual while under the influence of a soul splice.
- If V turns out to be female and Belkar turns into a woman, the Order of the Stick will match the Order of the Scribble in both race(s) AND gender(s). Take from that what you will.
- Um, no. The Order of the Scribble was composed of four males and two females.
- So, if V is male and Belkar turns into a woman, the adventuring parties will match.
- Except anyone killed by the Snarl ceases to exist entirely, which probably means they can't be reincarnated.
- There's a WMG here addressing that... somewhere...
- Except anyone killed by the Snarl ceases to exist entirely, which probably means they can't be reincarnated.
- Maybe a resurrected Miko will join them to atone for her sins. Hey, if they let in Belkar...
- Judging by Durkon's death, it may end up this way.
- Hilgya could replace Durkon as a Distaff Counterpart cleric and/or Belkar as Token Evil Teammate.
- Judging by Durkon's death, it may end up this way.
- S/he's hiding the fact that Belkar kissed him/her. Remember?
- This comic suggests that V "tampers with the fundamental natural order when bored".
- Hir children are clones!!!
- Might have something to do with a drug-addled past of some sort...
- Or alternately, (s)he may become a Baelnorn instead of a regular Lich
- After 595, I kinda doubt it.
- Not to mention the theme naming at work - they're both named after volcanoes.
- I hate to be Killjoy McFactcorrecter, But Pompeii is the city destroyed by Mt. Vesuvius. I know. I watched half of a PBS special on it once.
- Indeed. Pompey was a military general in Ancient Rome. (A PBS special? Please.)
- ...Why do I suddenly have the voice of Comic Book Guy ringing in my head?
- I hate to be Killjoy McFactcorrecter, But Pompeii is the city destroyed by Mt. Vesuvius. I know. I watched half of a PBS special on it once.
- This hardly seems like a marriage that weathered an affair.
- Like s/he would know after V being gone for several decades.
- Given the different age rates of elves and half-elves, it might be possible for Pompey to be younger than V's children still at home.
- The Black Dragon identifies V's children as 26 years old. When Nale recruits Pompeii, Pompeii claims to be in his 40's.
- Plus, V was only gone 6 years.
- Alternately, they're half-siblings or cousins. It doesn't have to be a paternal connection for them to related.
- Or Death's Li'l Helper will succumb to V. casting a spell like acid blood or whatever it's called from Heroes of Horror with enough metamagic feats to turn Detect Chaos into a nuclear weapon, which will subdue the rest of the party (except Haley, who will be beaten down with Magic Missiles). Belkar will simply be the last one standing, and will be disarmed...before finding a vorpal sword dropped by Hinjo or someone, grabbing it in both hands, and cutting V's head off. The resultant geyser of acid straight in the face will send Belkar on his one-way ride to the Abyss.
- Or Vaarsuvius will be taken over by the IFCC to control a gate and Belkar will a) destroy the Gate and b) distract V long enough for them to both succumb to the collapsing gate.
- OR...Belkar actually does make an Heroic Sacrifice, and his sacrifice helps seal the last Gate (or whatever resolves the plot). He will be remembered the same way Kraagar was.
- Haley was also the one who recommended V to Roy in the first place in On the Origin of PCs. The reason Roy (and the rest of the Order) doesn't know V's gender is because the corresponding field on his/her character sheet was obscured by an ink stain. Since Haley interviewed him/her beforehand, she quite possibly knows, but decides not to make a big deal out of it.
- Remember that line about Elan being sad he won't be able to see Roy in the afterlife due to his alignment in "Oh Buddy Roy"? Yeah. Then again, I don't imagine Haley would be too pleased if she found out Elan's going Lawful.
- "Oh Buddy Roy" came before Elan began spending his time baby-sitting a Paladin.
- He doesn't need one, being lawful just prevents Bards from gaining more levels in Bard (opposed to say, Barbarian, where they lose rage), and he has a prestige class he can advance anyways.
- Elan wasn't upset about killing Kubota because it was a chaotic act, he was upset because killing a helpless prisoner, when you don't even know why he's a prisoner, is an evil act.
- Celia- Though she may get some Character Development first in order to get a healthy dose of cynicism.
- Kazumi and/or Daigo
- Roy's younger brother (see a previous WMG)
- Redcloak (see a previous WMG)
- Hinjo
- The Cleric they want to raise Roy
- Aarindarius- Bit of a Contrived Coincidence, but I can easily see him/her joining up with the Order of The Stick to stop V if s/he should Face–Heel Turn. It'd also maintain the parallels to the Order of the Scribble's "Three humans, one elf, one dwarf, and one halfling" status quo.
- Roy's sister, Julia (She got too much screen time to be completely forgotten)
- Right Eye's Daughter. (see a previous WMG)
- Lien
- O-Chul
- V's mate. They have a pointed stick, dammit, and they're not afraid to use it!
- That Guy With a Halberd
- Serini Toormuck?
- Hilgya, acting as either a replacement Token Evil Teammate if/when Belkar dies, a replacement cleric if they can't save the original Durkon, or a second spellcaster (albeit of a different type) should V go darkside again.
- One of the fiends has already referred to V as "he". These are ageless beings of immortal evil; they should know what gender an elf is. And because V. was racking up the Moments of Awesome, nobody friggin' noticed.
- And one of the other fiends added, "She? It?" Even they're not sure. V's been referred to as both male and female within the strip by various characters, which just reflects what they think s/he is.
- Actually one of the fiends referred to Vaarsuvius as a "she" first (other adding "He? It?"), then later another called V a "he". Personally I'm amazed how people keep saying "now we know V's gender!" every time somebody happens to slip a pronoun. The Giant has said that in his books, Rule of Funny > Plot Justification. Nobody knowing V's real gender is a Running Gag, so nobody will ever figure it out, no matter how mighty or powerful they are or how much unlimited knowledge they otherwise have...
- An alternate idea is that we will never learn of V's gender, it will just be teased at and used for Rule of Funny, without an actual reveal (Word of God be damned).
- Alternatively, using something that already exists in D&D canon (if not, granted, this canon necessarily): the Elemental Plane of Mineral.
- Or they are married, but Elves in The Order of the Stick land just happen to practice gay marriage.
- Vaarsuvius revealed they had a spouse way back here. The dragon refers to Inkyrius as "your mate" on Inkyrus's first appearance. Inkyrius files for divorce here. At this point (in fact, at any point) there needs to be some pretty extraordinary reason to think they're not (or rather, weren't) married. As far as "opposite sex" goes, Word of God is that the whole point of their kids being adopted is to raise the possibility that they're not.
- At least not until New Year's eve. Thirty years from now. The "not long for this world" stuff was off the record, and "Belkar will draw his last breath -ever- before the end of the year". Everything implying that he would die this year, including the in-comic time comment, was off the record. The Oracle may have been guessing that he would die from the curse mark, and the prophecy was as ambiguous to him as it was to Roy. (Alternately, it could even be a definition of the word "year", possibly a title for a living being, but I digress.)
- I wouldn't put it beyond Buckler to Mind Screw with us this way. But I really, REALLY would enjoy Order of the Stick more if Belkar bit it. The sooner, the better.
- It's worth noting that Roy remembers the entire conversation (not just the prophecy) and that he didn't put that to any immediate use. Meaning some incidental comment the Oracle made (or some other detail of the scene) may come up as important later, when Belkar's prophesied number is up.
- Two words: ioun stone. Among the ridiculous amount of other things they can potentially do, there are a number of types (particularly the Sustenence stone) that eliminate the user's need for air. Belkar will simply come into one of these and, without the need to do so, never bother himself with breathing again.
- Or Belkar will die just as his newfound character development make him a likable character. His last words are a command for V to take care of Mr. Scruffy.
- The first can't work, Elan gives his skill points/level as an amount that would need the human bonus points to get.
- Isn't "Elan" meaningful enough already? Élan is a French-derived word meaning "enthusiastic vigor and liveliness; distinctive style or flair." Now whom does that remind one of?
- More plausible: V and Haley's child is The Generic Dual-Classed Half-Elven Ranger.
- Don't forget to mention that his other class is also Ranger.
- To expand on this, he will be leader despite Roy coming back. Roy will hand over leadership to show how impressed with Elan he is, and symbolize how he doesn't think himself a worthy leader anymore after getting himself killed.
- Nale won't notice, he thinks Elan is already the leader.
- Nale used to think he was, but it seems clear that he reevaluated that assessment after his first encounter with the Order.
- Of course, he'll now come to the conclusion that he was fooled by Obfuscating Stupidity, and Elan's been playing him like a harp from the very beginning. Curses! How could he have so badly underestimated the cunning of his own twin brother?
- Because he doesn't have much cunning himself.
- Nale used to think he was, but it seems clear that he reevaluated that assessment after his first encounter with the Order.
- In some languages; maybe not in others (especially fictional ones). For example, in Spanish and Italian, "-o" is a masculine ending (as in the names Mario and Diego); however, some feminine Greek names end in "-o" (such as Hero or Calypso). My guess is that both V and Inkyrius are neither male nor female.
- And the surname in Japanese comes before the first name. Gentlemen - consider Miko Miyazaki. Basically, applying real-world linguistics to The Order of the Stick is begging for trouble.
- And yet there are no other females with masculine-sounding names, or vice versa, regardless of race. I really think that if The Giant had intended on making V's gender ambiguous from the start, he would have given him a more androgynous name.
- However, if memory serves The Giant didn't intend V's gender to be ambiguous from the start.
- And yet there are no other females with masculine-sounding names, or vice versa, regardless of race. I really think that if The Giant had intended on making V's gender ambiguous from the start, he would have given him a more androgynous name.
- I'd like to see this ship!
- It's in the Fanfic Recs.
- And according to Don't Split the Party's cast page, Belkar is interested in V.
- Well... DSTP's cast page says that Belkar wants to "shtup" V, which based on previous events doesn't mean anything when it comes to romantic inclination. On the other hand, there is a scene waaaayyy back at the end of War and XP's, when Haley & Belkar discover they've been left behind:Belkar: OK, elf, enough with the jokes. You got me, fair enough, now bring the ship back.Belkar: ...Belkar: No, seriously, wherever you're hiding: You really had me thinking for a minute there that we got left behind. Great illusion. Now, can we get out of this stupid city already?Belkar: ...Belkar: Vaarsuvius?
- Well... DSTP's cast page says that Belkar wants to "shtup" V, which based on previous events doesn't mean anything when it comes to romantic inclination. On the other hand, there is a scene waaaayyy back at the end of War and XP's, when Haley & Belkar discover they've been left behind:
- Forget V/Redcloak! V/Belkar OTP!
- I'd say the opposite. Haley went from being a comic relief character to a serious and tactically minded leader, and then to a veritable well of drama.
- Well, Elan is less funny nowadays.
- An Evil alignment (pink is chromatic)- could be based on the soul whose power V was using at the time.
- A Good alignment (since the pink dragon form is roughly the size of the adult black dragon, and elves have a much shorter lifespan than dragons, there's a chance it could be an immature copper dragon of the same age as V).
- Gender=Male (antlers. May not be determinative of gender with whatever race of dragon V turned into).
- Gender=Female (Pink. Though color is determined by race for dragons, pink isn't, as far as I know, a dragon color.)
- However, in some editions there are rules for draconic crossbreeds, so it could be a red/white hybrid.
- Absolutely nothing (it's a Shapechange spell, not a species change. It could be based on one or more of the souls. The Order of the Stick follows the various narrative rules when they supercede the D&D rules. So on and so forth.)
- The pink color of the dragon simply fits with V's magical aura. Every caster so far has displayed a color to their spells (except for Tsukiko, who being both a divine and arcane caster, has two colors depending on which type of spell she's casting), and V's color is pink. Whether that means anything, who knows, but Word of God says we'll never be dolt V's actual gender.
- "Aunt Serini?"
- Then why would he have changed their plans from "find some bitches" to "work our way up to that"? One would think that he would choose a completely new plan of action instead of delaying it, or adjusting it to M_. Scruffy's gender and/or gender preference. Also, it could just be a licking sound.
- Belkar hasn't figured it out yet, is what I'm saying.
- I doubt it. Belkar inherited Mr Scruffy from Lord Shojo, who might have been (acting) insane, but he had enough people tending the cat that we would have someone mention it (if behind Lord Shojo's back)Guard: "He does know the cat's a female, right?"O'Chul: "You must be new. We've stopped bothering to correct him."
- Case for Female:
- Haley's anecdote about the boots of speed (like, totally, powerful, but lime green.) is told only to women.
- Not quite true. When she tells V, Belkar is also there.
- V will only share a room with Haley.
- Haley's anecdote about the boots of speed (like, totally, powerful, but lime green.) is told only to women.
- Case for Male:
- V doesn't seem to recognize Haley's jokes at Roy's expense when he uses the belt of gender changing.
- -Ius is a masculine ending.
- V's eyes, especially early on, were drawn at about 2/3 height of the face, like other guys.
- V just doesn't have drama or humor like most female characters do: he doesn't care about beauty rituals or his hair (even when alone with Haley, and Haley doesn't engage in them with him), and when severely injured/facing death, he doesn't focus on a love interest or other close relationship like Haley, Therkla, Miko, and Tsukiko.
- Case for Other:
- V tells Sabine "(V) is not the most qualified to comment on gender traits."
- Although V being unaware of Roy's gender bending under the girdle of femininity/masculinity can be used as a good case for V being male (or anything that's not female really), it also backs up V's statement about not being qualified to comment on gender traits.
- Even ancient fiendish entities have no clue about V's gender.
- V may have been intended as one or the other early on (being referred to as a man by Roy without ambiguity, discussion, or so much as a raised eyebrow as early as strip 9), but later been retconned into androgyny in response to inattentive fans who got confused. All gender references after that one became much more painstaking in their vagueness, which is a marked contrast with Roy's casual mention, and the FAQ item canonizing this ambiguity and negating Roy's comment came quite a while later.
- V tells Sabine "(V) is not the most qualified to comment on gender traits."
- Alternatively, Mr. Scruffy will become Belkar's animal companion in the text. The scene will become Belkar's first Heartwarming Moments.
- This theory gains a lot of support from the fact that Mr. Scruffy just disemboweled someone.
- That a simple housecat can kill a lvl 1 commoner in a single strike is an old joke in the Dungeons & Dragons community and indicates nothing about Mr. Scruffy. But because of the other evidence towards it I also believe he is Belkar's companion.
- Well, considering that this strip is titled "Companions" I think we might be a hair's bredth from calling this confirmed anyway.
- That a simple housecat can kill a lvl 1 commoner in a single strike is an old joke in the Dungeons & Dragons community and indicates nothing about Mr. Scruffy. But because of the other evidence towards it I also believe he is Belkar's companion.
Birthdays themselves are also celebrations of life. So therefore, if Belkar is told to savor his next birthday cake, that hints—rather subtly, to be sure—that he may not receive another one, which symbolizes death in this comic (as Roy failed to notice or celebrate his birthday when he was dead).
IRAs are retirement funds. Now, one thing we know about the oracle is that he goes on TV Tropes, and is in fact the Giant's way of acknowledging us; you can tell by the fact that he lords over other characters his knowledge of time, a crystal clear Shout-Out to the many "X is a time lord" theories. Therefore, he has a keen knowledge of the retirony trope, and hence, whenever he refers to retirement plans, he must in fact be thinking of deathnote .
Now the breath clue is harder to decipher. Normally when we talk about drawing breath, of course, we're referring to the act of doodling a lung or winning a charity raffle on the elemental plane of Air. But my guess is that the oracle is using his powers of prophecy to look forward into the future to a point in time where it's common knowledge that breathing oxygenates the blood supply, therefore directly maintaining life, and hence "breath" is taken synecdochically for life. Therefore, the oracle is coining a unique and visceral evocation of death, a phrase that brings to mind the fact that Belkar's muscles and organs will cease to function, shut down, and eventually begin the process of necrosis, as the only blood that reaches them, is depleted of oxygen rather than enriched by it.
- No. Way.
- Eh, I don't buy it.
- If you think about it Haley has been extremely lucky. There's the million to one shot she made in the first Linear Guild arc. She was saved in the nick of time in the Second Linear Guild Arc. She lucked out that Belkar was too distracted to consider a Face–Heel Turn in the Escape Arc. Almost all the bad things in the series have happened when Haley wasn't around. Even the destruction of her money led to a boyfriend and valuable Character Development. Perhaps this suggests the gods favor her. It also fits that she would be ashamed if her father was Loki. He often gets painted as pure evil in Hijacked by Jesus settings.
- I had a similar theory I wanted to post on the Gitp boards, so I would like to offer some additional arguments for this. Haley has a fear of Elan leaving her like all the good people she loved and did leave because she was not good enough. Being descended from Loki a evil god could be a good cause for this feelings. Two things I want to further clarify/suggest in my theory: Loki was on Haley's father's side of the family tree in my mind, possibly as close to her as being her grandfather. Why her father's? This can work with her father actually being Loki's avatar: he's left out of the good people who ran away (thus suggesting "evil"), plus he looks like Loki with another hairstyle. Why grandfather? It would make the right mix — 75% human 25% celestial/god — so she could be Aasimar, with a + 1 Level adjustment so the others wouldn't catch on to her different race, or maybe even no Level adjustment if the author houserules use the many official ways to avoid La. (Sorry for the wall of text!) In the end Loki is evil, hence her whole reason for hiding it. The Northern Gods come as a package, so many worship/stand Loki, but he could still be bad. The author portrays Loki as a reasonable guy, but his two clerics shown strongly suggest (plus the books, I think, spell it out) he's Chaotic Evil, so he gets the short end of the stick again.
- Two periods, ten lines of text before a kindly editor cleaned it up. I already accounted for the possibility that Ian is an avatar, but the possibility of Loki being Haley's grandfather leaves him a demigod (unless he's her maternal grandfather, which is ignores several clues and is thus less likely). And for the record, in non-Hijacked by Jesus settings, I usually see Loki portrayed as Chaotic Jerkass (When he's not Sympathetic Villaining).
- This (recent strip, so mild spoilers) sounds like something Loki Lie-smith would teach his son, minus the "except family" (considering how often most of his family screwed him over, even when he deserved it, though it wouldn't be entirely out of character to say "trust no one but me"). The family history doesn't really say much yet, although framing each other for murder does run in the family, especially whenit comes to Loki's schemes...
- Haley also drank a potion increasing her bluff checks. While it adds +30 to bluff, maybe its a hint that she can has the Loki genes as well, seeing as her bluffs are really shot to game breaking levels.
- If you think about it Haley has been extremely lucky. There's the million to one shot she made in the first Linear Guild arc. She was saved in the nick of time in the Second Linear Guild Arc. She lucked out that Belkar was too distracted to consider a Face–Heel Turn in the Escape Arc. Almost all the bad things in the series have happened when Haley wasn't around. Even the destruction of her money led to a boyfriend and valuable Character Development. Perhaps this suggests the gods favor her. It also fits that she would be ashamed if her father was Loki. He often gets painted as pure evil in Hijacked by Jesus settings.
- Kind of a Joker "died laughing" thing, then?
- The oracle said he'd have a "happy ending," not that he'd die happy, or just think he died happy. Elan dying like that is anything but a happy ending.
- "Happy ending"? Nah, probably not, the giant's kept the comic PG-13 so far.
- Kind of a Joker "died laughing" thing, then?
- Dies happy because he gets to save Haley? Sorry, that's even less happy, isn't it?
One of the Discworld books mentioned that a happy ending is really just a story that isn't finished. I could definitely see Burlew doing something like this as a subversion of...something.
- Except that...well...wouldn't that be awfully lame? I mean, even the Subversion page itself says that subversions aren't necessarily clever or interesting per se.
- It'd be less lame as a Double Subversion - the Oracle meant the end of the arc, and doesn't consider Elan's ultimate ending a happy one, but Elan does. Like if he died heroically while saving the world or something.
- "A whistle! I really DID get a happy ending!"
- Also, he has square hips, which is a male trait, and eyes pretty high up on the face (another male trait).
- Seriously? That's a stretch even for WMG. "Looking vaguely similar"/"Evil Twin". Maybe if she was shown in any way doing something, you know, evil, rather than just running away from beetles. I mean come on.
- Not to mention the Creator of the comic typed up a whole paragraph about this exact topic, which has since become the Moment of Awesome quote of the forum.
- I'd like to see that quote.
- "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes, characters that have a similar hairstyle just have a similar hairstyle. How many hairstyles do you think there are that can be drawn in stick figure style, anyway?"
- Not to mention the Creator of the comic typed up a whole paragraph about this exact topic, which has since become the Moment of Awesome quote of the forum.
- Special circumstance other than his teammates not wanting him back? Or, you know, anyone else? You've got to remember, while a lot of the fans like Belkar, nobody else in the setting does, and the vast, vast majority of them will be just peachy with the idea of him being dead.
- Bonus prophecy-fulfilling points if he dies because of a lighthearted Explosive Runes gift from Vaarsuvius ("for old times' sake") that he critically fails his defense roll against (or that may have been sabotaged), and Vaarsuvius ends up dead (metaphorically?) from guilt or trying to fix things.
- Alternatively, Belkar dies of happiness.
- Option number three, Belkar has a surprise birthday party, and the resulting critical hit to the feels is what cements his alignment change. At that point, he's so different from the Belkar the party all knows and reluctantly tolerates that, in a sense, Belkar Bitterleaf ceased to exist, replaced by a much better halfling.
- Optionally followed by the Oracle showing up and admitting he lied about Belkar's death just to screw with him.
- Kissing V on his way out, right?
- The phrasing above is very specific, because I don't think Burlew wants to render him Deader than Dead just yet. Rather, his death will be faked for drama, and his fans will whine so hard that Burlew will get sick of making them happy and kill the character off permanently just to spite them (kind of like the "Now shut up" strip of 8-Bit Theater.)
About the only one he might be lacking in seems to be Dexterity; his Wisdom and Intelligence are high enough to be considered suitable for spellcasting, his Constitution seems pretty decent considering all the damage he's capable of soaking, his Charisma must be fair if he's been using one-liners to get ideas across to his father all his life, and obviously his Strength is good, or he wouldn't be able to make the kind of Jump checks he tends to.
- He's quite possibly Jack of All Stats statwise compared to the other members, then. (see Standardized Leader) The balance is what makes him the Only Sane Man.
I'm not sure what it could mean, but both Vaarsuvius's mate wore a ponytail. Now the character does as well. Could this be significant, or is it just a style change?
- Elan has mentioned that changes in appearance can be a sign of Character Development. Vaarsuvius changed hir hairstyle in the aftermath of the Break the Haughty arc. Probably not a coincidence.
- What? It'd be cool. The teams membership includes
- Roy Green, AKA Star-Fist. His father was Dr Star (aka Eugene Green) a Science Hero who defeated the Alien Demigod (think Thanos or Darksied) Xykon years ago, but didn't remove the threat long term, thus allowing Xykon to threaten earth once more. Roy thus formed the Stick Squad as a team dedicated to defending earth from Xykon. Roy's a Flying Brick due to accidental exposure to alien Starmetal while still in the womb- a sore point for his father, who wanted him to follow in his footsteps as a Badass Normal Science Hero.
- David Durkon, AKA Hammer-Bolt. Stocky vietnam vet whose war experiences left him with a phobia of trees. Self-medicates his war trauma with a combination of neo-pagan Thor worship and sledgehammer assisted street-vigilanteism. Manifests various powers (summoning lightening, brief bursts of Super-Strength) that may be the product of Thor's influence, or simply previously unknown superpowers manifesting themselves.
- Elan Edwards, AKA Charmer. Along with his estranged Evil Twin Nale, AKA Dominator, the product of a liason between two telepaths- one a hero, the other a villain. Possesses limited mindcontrol powers, which he has never really developed, until a familiar incident at the hands of Nale led to him doing time (well, 24 hours) in prison, forcing him to develop his powers further, and augment them with some new Badass Normal style skills (ie: he read one too many Batman comics, and thought it'd be fun to jump through Skylights dramatically).
- Haley Hawkins, AKA Starshine. Former jewel thief turned Badass Normal superhero. Armed with Waif-Fu and a selection of trick throwing darts, of which her favourite is the fast freezing Nitro-Glycerin dart.
- The press generally agrees that the lime-green Spandex was a poor choice.
- Vaarsuvius, an elven sorceror from another dimension who has travelled to the Squad's home dimension in search of new magic, and whose gender ambiguity is a running joke amongst the media.
- During an event that is never to be mentioned again, spent some time as a lizard-monster after being injected with a mysterious serum.
- Ben Belkar, AKA War-God. Bestial Nineties Antihero, whom Star-Fist keeps on the team because it's better to have him pointed at the bad guys than at the civillian population. In addition to animalistic powers, such as Super-Strength and Super-Senses, is certifiable Knife Nut.
- Everyone's basic characterisation and behaviour is the same, just slightly modified for the new, modern day setting. Similarly, the story progresses differently where appropriate, either due to the modern setting (for example, the Saphire Guard are a secret organisation a la SHIELD, rather than a group of paladins, with Miko as their top operative- she's just consumed with Patriotic Fervour rather than being Holier Than Thou) or changes in character (obviously, Roy can't die from falling now). The villains are also modified to be more approrpriate to a Super Hero setting (as mentioned, Xykon is now a Darksied look-alike, while Redcloak is now a superhuman supremacist a la Magneto).
- Show of hands, who wants to help make this happen?
- ... Dammit, fine. Yes. Although I'm not too sure about Charmer - It's to the point and matches Dominater, but seems a little plain for a supername. Also, rather than vaguely psychic mind-control, I think pheremone-type powers would work better. Like a non-Evil Purple Man. I kind of love the idea of Haley as a Distaff Counterpart Hawkeye-meets-Catwoman, though.
- Ladies and Gentlemen, I believe that we have discovered the contents of the World Within The World.
- Stick Squad!Tarquin = Mafia don? Admit it, that would rule. And maybe Nale/Dominator wants to take over the Mafia, but Tarquin is scared that he'll mess it up? Sabine (or "Succubus") is probably from V's dimension, and Thog... well... Some sort of experiment with mutations, which produced a very strong and easily angered mutant who was really dumb? Aaaand kobolds could be some sort of lizard people living below the surface, hidden from human eyes.
- I can see Sabine as a Hooker with a Heart of Gold (or just a hooker) with connections in the crime world and some mysterious debts to pay. Thog would be a very effective bodyguard of Tarquin's, somewhere between a Bunny-Ears Lawyer and the Dumb Muscle, who for some reason sided with Nale after their falling out. Elan... I know he's already been covered, but I really, really want Elan Edwards to be a pop star. I mean, he's a bard, and he's certainly pretty and ditzy enough. He would be raised apart from Nale in a foster family, and they would become aware of each other's existence after Nale is mistaken for Elan during a robbery/murder/whatever.
- How about Shojo as an Uatu- style exposition fountain and the Snarl as a Galactesque planet devourer?
- This could only work as a Tabletop RPG that pokes fun at various comic book tropes.
- Let's keep it going! Celia is a fourth-wall breaking blue amazon! After being sealed in an extra dimensional prison, Charmer gets instruction from Julian Scoundrel, Earth-2's Charmer! V forms a stable relationship that gets cut short when s/he makes a deal with the devil... okay, not that.
- How is that misspeaking? All we have is that Belkar will die in some unspecified manner that precludes him breathing (thereby preventing him from being brain dead and hooked up to some electronic breathing apparatus)
The Real Man: Roy and Haley would both fit.
The Loonie: Belkar, with his homicidal tendencies.
The Roleplayer: Both Durkon and Elan, Durkon as the Thespian and Elan as the Anti-Munchkin.
Munchkin: Vaarsuvius.
- Except that V chose a surprisingly unoptomized build. No munchkin wizard would bar themselves from Conjuraton. We know that (s)he had conjuration and necromancy as barred schools.
- V choose his barred schools before teleport and a few other spells were moved into Conjuration and wasn't allowed to change his schools. But even before that he was always a blaster oriented wizard who attacked mostly with spells that reduzed hp, which can look good on paper for an inexperienced munchkin, because that build delivers high numbers of damage, but isn't as powerfull as a wizard who buffs his team and uses mostly save or die/save or suck spells. V seems to have realized this and now tries to help his team more.
- I interpreted that as being an enchantment, like undead-bane, that makes it more effective against The Undead.
- It's the starmetal, no guessing needed.
- Human (see above, "Haley has Celestial blood in her background").
- A virgin (see above, same heading).
- Straight (see above, same heading).
- Good (see above, "Haley is, and always has been, Chaotic Neutral").
- Single, and at some point Elan will have to fight her husband.
- Sane.
- Living.
- Female.
- Elan would have found out by now if she was transgendered.
- Depends on how good magical transformations are, but since we've seen her as a female toddler in flashbacks, it's unlikely anyway.
- Elan would have found out by now if she was transgendered.
- Real.
- A natural redhead.
- "Hey, this hair is all-natural!" "Yeah, natural hair dye."
- Possibly confirmed; the cast page of "Don't Split The Party" claims that Belkar wants to "shtup" V.
- V presents a theory that Belkar can only feel hatred or lust for anyone. There's no third option of him simply losing interest because of finding out someone was male.
- Belkar hate every male character, or V think that Belkar hates every male.
- V only thinks that Belkar hates every male; it has been shown that he doesn't hate Lord Shojo or Mr. Scruffy, or himself.
- Belkar hate every male character, or V think that Belkar hates every male.
- Hey, now that one party member is a vampire and Belkar's willing to pick a fight with him, this just became a whole lot more plausible.
- The reason he's out of breath? Kissing V at the New Year's countdown. CPR, maybe?
- What about Pompey?
- He might have 'inherited' a gender from his human parent.
- There's nothing obfuscating about his stupidity.
- Given Elan's horrified reaction to realizing that his father is evil, with no audience except the readers, for this theory to work Elan would have to be a sleeper agent, unaware of the fact that he's been helping his father's evil plans all along.
- The only problem is that the orcs worship GIGGLES the clown, god of slapstick. Otherwise the theory is sound.
- It might work to strengthen the pantheon itself, and thus indirectly strengthen Banjo.
- Banjo is also The Rival/Arch-Enemy of Giggles, if that works on a godly level, that means Banjo and Giggles have to be roughly equal power-wise.
- Considering the pantheon counsel going on right now (Specifically; Durkon as Hel's representative plot), it might be that Banjo returns either now or later, as a deity in his own right to give the party an in with immortal affairs and maybe even tip the balance of a deadlocked vote.
- And it's nothing new, since Celia served essentially the same role While Roy was missing.
- Unlikely due to this:Vision of Shojo: If you die, will another halfling ranger just happen to show up to take your place?Belkar: No! HELL no!
- V isn't stupid, she realizes how powerful Xykon is, and unless she uses those crazy powers she used to save her family , she does not stand a chance against Xykon. I'm not saying Belkar is more powerful than V, it's just that he's more likely to have a leeroy jenkins moment in which he manages to get lucky.
- Elan is just too hapless to be able to stand a chance.
- Haley will probably be too occupied with Elan's blunders to get a chance.
- If Durkon fought with Xykon, it would contradict the Oracle stating he'd go back to his homeland, because Xykon will probably have Redcloak revive him as a zombie
According to the relationship chart in Don't Split the Party (and occasional hints in the story), Belkar wants to sleep with Vaarsuvius, for one reason or another. The more he expands into "pretend" character development, the more support he's going to show V until one day he realizes that, even if it's not really anything like love (which he only really has for his cat), V is still somehow important to him. This will inspire him to pretend to make a heartfelt declaration of feeling in order to get V into his bed. It won't work, and then he'll die, leaving V to wonder.
- "You and me to the end, remember?"
- That doesn't prove a thing. Belkar's response more likely is "I always suspected V was a woman" since V's gender is still ambiguous.
- "V-Man is casting Identify."
- Even if Rich originally intended V to be male (which seems likely, otherwise he'd draw V with visible breasts like Haley), that original author intent is not relevant anymore in the light of the current author intent, as well as V being well and truly established as ambiguously gendered in-universe.
- He has repeatedly stated that Belkar is not long for the world, that he shouldn't bother funding his IRA, savor his next birthday cake, will draw his last breath... and the fact is, the Oracle subverts the Prophecy Twist trope on pretty regular basis. He's going to die.
- The other things he said were his attempts to drop hints at what he thought would happen, based on his misunderstanding of the information he actually received. He thinks Belkar will die, and so drops hints to that effect, but the prophecy was about something else (alternatively, the picture is very popular despite being awful, and he gets murdered by a bunch of jealous artists who can't get any recognition).
- If this is true, Aunt Ivy would have had to be with him. She and Haley share blood, so if she was hit, so was Haley.
- While Ian was protected by the antimagic field in the prison, Haley might also have been shielded by the residual Cloister effect.
- V has told the Order (or Roy, at least) about Familicide, though, and while he wasn't happy about it, he didn't kick V from the party.
Haley will eventually complete her emotional growth, learn to trust and open up as much as she chooses...and then start to question the validity of her feelings for him, because those trust issues are what made her find him attractive in the first place. Once she doesn't need him to make her a better person, she'll come to the conclusion that a non-adventuring relationship with Elan just wouldn't work, and break up with him amicably before it can go bad (though she'll always wonder how it might have gone). Elan will then complete his character growth when he has to deal with it, and find his happy ending some other way after the breakup: the Oracle said it ended well for Elan, after all.
The Oracle said "By saying the right four words, to the right being, at the right time, for all the wrong reasons." There were 3 demons, so they weren't the right "being" Furthermore "I- I must succeed" is a lame excuse for four words.
V showed interest in worshipping Banjo, but didn't because he didn't have espresso coffee. If Elan manages to get an espresso coffee maker, V might worship Banjo, who will use his magical puppet powers to give V arcane power. The four words being "I will worship Banjo" or something like that.
Belkar and V obviously care about each other in some capacity or another; when Belkar is killed trying to save/protect V, he'll end up in one of the lower planes in the service of the IFCC... and immediately request to be spliced back to V (because, being a Ranger, he really does have spell levels, it's just that his Wisdom score is in the crapper). The IFCC will do it because Belkar is as likely to drive V mad with murderous rage as anyone else, and the guilt of having Belkar around will make V more vulnerable in the future. But Belkar, whether because he actually has found himself some character development or other motive to do good in the world, just drops what he knows about the IFCC on Vaarsuvius and stays spliced to him to be able to help; although this won't save V's soul at all, at least when he finally passes on, he and Belkar won't be alone in serving the interests of evil.
- Alternatively, their willingness to stay spliced for the good of the world, and thus limiting themselves (Belkar being unable to fight physically, Vaarsuvius refraining from really bombastic magic and focusing to keep Belkar from cutting loose or being stolen back to the IFCC, knowing what it's costing his soul), they find redemption ala All Dogs Go to Heaven.
- Seriously, V is either sextuple or nonatuple-times damned already from selling souls on a time basis and at least 3 major times damned from all the mass murder and stuff. Considering as Vaarsuvius is clearly not going to be redeeming through all that before the adventure ends, it's a good chance V is going to be damned so thouroughly that half the lower planes will be on a wait list for hir soul by the time xe finally dies should xe just give up and start spamsummoning demons all over the place in an attempt to kill Xykon should xe sell hir soul again. And this is without selling hir familiar's soul as well. Gah, gender-neutral pronouns generated via internet!
- Soon tells Miko that redemption is a very special thing that requires more than just the fulfillment of duty, and not every person has what it takes. Vaarsuvius does. S/he's wallowing in guilt now, but that's part of what it takes to earn redemption, something that Miko (and Belkar, incidentally), could never do: understanding s/he was wrong. Remember that when Roy's soul was audited, the angel(?) told him that she would call him Neutral good and just be done with him, except that he keeps trying. V's already prepared to accept the consequences of hir actions (in particular, not contesting hir divorce), but if s/he can get away from hir guilt and get back on the adventure to save the world, s/he'll find redemption, one way or another.
- And Mr. Scruffy will ascend with him. They visit Lord Shojo on the weekends.
Plus, the Mark's passphrase was "Evolve or Die." Though even Shojo couldn't have expected the possibility of both happening.
He even implies it himself: who ever heard of four and twenty ravens baked in a pie?
- Another bit of foreshadowing is Roy's snark in the fourth panel.
- Except Resurrection is not a Ranger Spell, and thus Belkar does not even have a chance of using a Resurrection spell. Haley has a better chance since Use Magic Device is a Rogue skill.
- Ehh, being kicked in the groin hurts for males and females, enough to leave some ambiguity at least.
- Not exactly jossed, but his death in the fantasy has a different explanation.
- He doesn't know they died, thanks to Roy finagling his way out of a straight answer.
It needs a Divine Caster, so maybe she'll want Durkon to take Redcloak's place.
- Or, alternatively, they'll expect this (since Blackwing's already done the "You clearly don't want me to do it" gag, to the IF Fs' less intelligent minion no less) and yank V away to influence Roy into a foolish course of action (or maybe Roy'll realise this and be back at square one guesswise).
- Or he'll fall into (?) a rift, and be unmade.
- Or he'll fall into a rift and spend the rest of his life on the planet within the rift, which is revealed to be the Oracle's blind spot.
[[WMG: The Order of the Stick will fight the Light WarriorsThe Light warriors will be presented as Shadow Archetypes for the Order.Black Mage represents V's power gone horribly wrong and Belkar turning even worse.Red Mage represents Genre Savvieness being mixed with a complete lack of concern for heroism, much like Elan's father, and being wrong.Thief represents Haley's greed becoming even worse and with no justification and using a contract to manipulate his teammates, something Roy had to grow out of.Fighter represents the image of idiotic fighters that Roy despises.Durkon doesn't get an archetype, because the Light Warriors are what the Order would turn into if Durkon wasn't there to help them.
- Since bards are also Arcane Casters, it's possible that Elan could do this - though the "powerful" part might be a sticking point.
- Elan's Evil Twin brother Nale is also in the running, though with his unfavourable multiclassing, he is probably no better at arcane magic than Elan (and significantly worse than any of the dedicated wizards).
- In fact, let's go ahead and say that Elan will play a role in unleashing the Snarl, which leads to visions of Vaarsuivius appearing to everyone and performing some symbolic action just before they dissolve into the "fabric of reality", which is some weird goo, as everything makes even less sense than before and weird religious symbolism appears everywhere, ultimately ending up with Elan and Haley as the last two people on Earth. On the bright side, the giant naked figure of Vaarsuivius stretching out of the stratosphere will finally prove hir gender once and for all. ..unless V is facing the other way, giving everyone a generous view of his/her butt. (The presence or absence of dangly parts could still be a giveaway.)
- V's four words: "I will join you."
- It appears to have been "I... I must succeed". Though granted, that's really less four words and more three words, with a stammer.
- What if those aren't the four words mentioned in the prophecy, and the prophecy actually hasn't been fulfilled yet, with the arc with the IFC a red herring in that regard? After all, by one interpretation of the events, V didn't obtain ultimate arcane power, since, as we know, he was beaten by Xykon in their magic duel.
- Xykon explained it in his power equals power speech: because V didn't work for his power, he was unable to properly wield it and was defeated.
- It appears to have been "I... I must succeed". Though granted, that's really less four words and more three words, with a stammer.
- Alternately, V will join with Redcloak, who does a Heel–Face Turn after Xykon betrays his lackey to probable death. It does seem like the kind of thing Xykon would pull.
- What if Redcloak does the Heel–Face Turn to betray Xykon before Xykon betrays him. Redcloak hates Xykon and the only reason he didn't smash his phylactery is because he can't admit he teamed up with him for nothing. He does however now have a whole city that is policalty stable for goblins to call their own. It is the equal footing his kind need so he might be able to forget The Plan and say Xykon outlived his purpose after the siege and just needed the right opportunity to kill him. Well what better opportunity when the Order attacks him. Then he has the reason and means to cut his losses, kill Xykon and go back to building an actual future for the gobliniods with Azure city. The think that the Order would agree to it because Roy's father's blood oath is on Xykon and only Xykon.
- Another take on this: V does not pull a Face Heel Turn but is present at the final showdown at the foot of the last Gate. Utterly by chance, he recites the mantra which unlocks it and somehow gains all of Snarl's power for himself. May or may not lend itself to an NGE ending — though if it did, stratospheric V's goody bits would be covered by a Mysterious Impenetrable Shroud of Power, or clouds.
- Tsukiko is a huge monkey wrench to any theory on this subject. She's a Mystic Theurge aligned with the bad guys. That makes her a divine caster and an arcane caster. This could mean she could fill in on either side of the above equation, or perhaps on both.
- She's being groomed as a replacement for Redcloak, and is totally ignorant of Xykon's scheme. That's the two-part ritual that the MitD solved. Xykon knows that Redcloak is hiding something, and Tsukiko is Xykon's ticket out of their deal. Well...was...
- This makes sense. Both the Elves and the Goblins had to raise their own gods. Perhaps Vaarsuvius will either become or already is the elf god and Vaarsuvius's plan is the same as the Dark One's. The two team up for massive damage.
- ...on the other hand, it would certainly explain why V says, in Origin of PCs, that he breaks more natural laws before breakfast then Roy will in a lifetime, because what Wizard would waste that many of his precious spells per day on something that early?
- Breaking more natural laws than a pure core fighter isn't hard.
- Prestidigitation is a cantrip, and it wash your equipment, hair and nails (are teeth living? If not it can also clean them), all things you would want to do before breakfast. I think that breaks more laws than Roy has ever done under his own power.
- Well, OtOoPCs actually says that V breaks more natural laws than Roy is even aware of. I guess it still qualifies.
- ...on the other hand, it would certainly explain why V says, in Origin of PCs, that he breaks more natural laws before breakfast then Roy will in a lifetime, because what Wizard would waste that many of his precious spells per day on something that early?
- ...And then they get married!! Squee!!!
- That... actually might be remotely plausible. (considering V is female... then again, Redcloak hasn't confirmed his preferences) Both have something in common; they started with noble goals, but went too far, sacrificed what was important to them, and realised it too late, but plodded on with their course because they've sacrified too much to let it fail. At the very least, they've got something to talk about.
- You DO know there's a pretty long Fan Fic on that topic? You can read it in the official Forum's "Crack Pairings" Thread-Compilation.
- And it has a TVTropes page. Redcloak/Vaarsuvius OTP.
- That... actually might be remotely plausible. (considering V is female... then again, Redcloak hasn't confirmed his preferences) Both have something in common; they started with noble goals, but went too far, sacrificed what was important to them, and realised it too late, but plodded on with their course because they've sacrified too much to let it fail. At the very least, they've got something to talk about.
- The reason V seemed to be looking for Elan and Durkon seems to be that s/he wanted to show off when she found Haley.
- So V wants to say 'Ha ha you suck losers I hate you look how much more awesome I am than you. Watch as I solve the problem you've made no progress on in six+ months!' Look how pissed V gets when the possibly about-to-die to make V seem worse Daigo and Kazumi point out Elan and Durken already know where Haley is. He/she was not going to be friendly, and already had sort of stopped caring about Xykon. Now he/she will be even angrier at them.
- "The end of what, son? The story? There is no end, there's just a point at which the storytellers stop talking."
- "If I win, I get to be a king. If I lose, I get to be a legend. I'll inspire a thousand more leaders to follow in my footsteps. And it'll all be thanks to you, my boy."
- He's Genre Savvy enough to know that only his heroic son can defeat him; he should also be savvy enough to know that he won't be able to kill him. He'll probably have to fake his death in a No One Could Survive That! scene, which again may be part of his gambit.
- Yeah, or he is Wrong Genre Savvy and he ends killed by Nale, so he doesn't get to be niether a king nor a legend, as he wasn't killed by a hero.
- He's Genre Savvy enough to know that only his heroic son can defeat him; he should also be savvy enough to know that he won't be able to kill him. He'll probably have to fake his death in a No One Could Survive That! scene, which again may be part of his gambit.
- Considering Elan's love for the dramatic I always thought his happy ending would be death by Heroic Sacrifice. Because, really, what would Elan want more than to die epically in some amazing sacrifice.
- That's not a happy ending. A happy ending, for an idealist like Elan, would be living happily ever after.
- If that were the case, wouldn't he/she have specialized in Transmutation?
- It could also be 'one year from this point' meaning that Belkar will die within a year since the Oracle made that prophecy.
- Thank you. I knew I couldn't be the only person who noticed that. Only two things were revealed by Durkon's fortune: 1) He will die outside the dwarven lands, because he could not otherwise return posthumously at all. 2) He will be returned to his homelands following that death. He can return as many times as he wants until that last fateful exit and gruesome return.
- Probably Jossed, with his becoming a vampire making it possible to fulfill both prophecies.
- Unlikely, given that Elan has now accepted his father isn't going to change easily (if at all).
- It's one of the perfect ways for his "go out in an epic fashion" plan to fail! Seconded!
Mostly because of awesome You Are Better Than You Think You Are lines from Elan. Example:
- "Look. What you did... was wrong. Completely wrong. If we were in a certain horror setting, Act of Ultimate Darkness, permanent monstrous traits may-become-evil-overlord-of-own-prison wrong. You're going to spend the rest of your life trying to clean the blood off your hands for the harm you callously inflicted out of spite. But the thing is... you're bothering to clean them. That says a lot about you, and none of it is bad."
- YES.
Elan and the Order of the Stick will launch an attack on the Empire of Blood and kill Tarquin. Elan will then disguise himself as his father (using illusions or his armor) and slay the Empress of Blood and "die" in the process. They will also take down all of Tarquin's remaining teammates either before or after (or simultaneous attacks).
Now, no matter what anybody says, Tarquin will be hailed as a deep-cover hero who died valiantly to free the Western Continent from the reins of villainy. His villainy will be forgotten and the entire thing will be pinned on the Empress of Blood, so nobody will ever be inspired to become a similar villain (because you can't decide to become a dragon).
- While its jossed as to the army of Tarquin, Belkar being vamped by Durkon can still happen, given that there's still time before the in-campaign year ends.
- This may also explain the lead sheet he carries around to prevent people from using Detect Evil on him. If Belkar does have multiple personalities, it's possible that not all of them would be evil, and then perhaps the spell would even out as neutral?
His insistence (and spot-on accurancy) that Durkon is not actually Durkon is noteworthy, even considering he still has a grudge for getting bitten. He just cannot reveal how he actually knows for some reason, and so he is forced to find other contrived reasons.
- It's probably more a gut feeling more than anything combined with personal experience of being evil, and lacking wisdom and charisma, can't articulate it.
Possibly in the next strip or two. Belkar will make the point that the thunderstorm wouldn't be happening if it weren't for Durkon being vampirized in order to justify staking him while he's preoccupied with the Control Weather spell. Roy will misinterpret this, thinking that Belkar really is trying to sink them, and knock him off the Mechane to keep him from attacking Durkon. The rest of the party (except possibly Elan) won't care, since Belkar was an evil jerk who deserved it long ago, but it will set up a conflict for Roy once it's clear that Belkar was acting in the party's best interests after all, possibly leading to a My God, What Have I Done? moment.
- Didn't happen the way it was originally outlined, but it might come up again. Having Belkar die from team-killing would also explain why the Order won't just rezz him: it's not that he can't be revived, but he won't want to be.
They're probably only Obfuscating Stupidity to lull him into a false sense of security and make sure that he sticks around. Like with Belkar, its better to have him around and under control than to let him run around doing god knows what.
- Come to think of it, wooden stakes *are* a big part of the vampire mythos...
- Wrong assumption number one: Durkon and Belkar having a shared secret due to being part of the same team.
- Wrong assumption number two: Domination working on Roy, something the real Durkon would have never attempted in the first place because he knows Roy is strong-willed.
- The Oracle only stated that Belkar would "draw his last breath" before the end of the year. As vampirified-Durkon (Lurkon?) demonstrated while he and Roy scoured the gnomes' town for a Resurrection-capable cleric, vampires (and presumably other undead) do not normally breathe. It seems a fairly similar setup to how Durkon was foretold to return home "posthumously", yet has now done so after dying and becoming a vampire. With the Order going after Lurkon and his associated spawn, it's a distinct possibility that Belkar may yet get turned later in the storyline (possibly for no reason beyond gaining an advantage in battle).
- His old name is Elan Morin Tedronai, also known as Ishmael.
- That more hints that Belkar is attracted to Minrah, which would make one helluva Love Dodecahedron, since Durkon still cares for Hilgya.