- John Daggett: Oh clearly you don't know much of anything do you?
The President who gives the speech reassuring the citizens of Gotham that they are not alone is played by the same actor who plays President Hayes in Stargate SG-1. Since he's not named in the film, he could very well be President Hayes. It's probably not the case though; otherwise the movie would end abruptly with Bane and the bomb being beamed into the Daedalus' brig....
- It's all just a big coverup. Aliens were the ones holding Gotham hostage. Bane's mask covers up the truth.
- A casting case that might suggest a link: Christopher Judge, the actor who played Teal'c in the Stargate franchise, is the captain of the team of henchmen that captures Blake during his aborted attempt to rescue cops from underground.
- The teaser for Man of Steel that was attached to the Dark Knight? It opens up on the ocean, featuring a fishing boat...I HONESTLY thought it was for an Aquaman film at first!
- Until I saw pieces that suggested Superman (before it actually showed him flying at supersonic speeds) I was just confused. Personally I don't think I could ever take an Aquaman movie seriously.
- Extraction doesn't actually remove the information. It's the retrieval of information without the target realizing it's been accessed.
- Now that you mention it, it does seem kind of suspicious that Bruce and Selina knew exactly which cafe to go to, and that they knew exactly what time to be there to see Alfred. When Alfred first told Bruce about his recurring dream, he never actually told him which cafe in Florence that he vacationed at. Even for someone like Bruce Wayne, "a cafe in Florence" probably isn't enough information to pinpoint an exact location.
- Not only that but they had no idea when exactly Alfred was gonna visit Florence, or if he was gonna visit Florence at all; maybe he was so grief-stricken by Bruce's death that he didn't want to visit Florence or the cafe anymore? Did Bruce and Selina hire a private detective to follow Alfred every day, so that they would know if and when he buys tickets to Florence? Did they move to Florence and sit in that cafe every day, so that they would be there when Alfred eventually visits it? (But what if he never comes?) Both options sound quite unlikely. The only way they could make sure he comes to Florence and to the cafe is to send Alfred an anonymous invitation to come visit the place, but in that case Alfred would've guessed the letter is from Bruce, and he wouldn't have looked as surprised as he did when he saw Bruce and Selina. Plus the whole trip would've been unnecessary, because the letter alone would've told Alfred that Bruce is alive. So it makes much more sense that the scene in the cafe wasn't real. Maybe Alfred did actually visit the cafe, but Bruce and Selina being there was merely a bittersweet product of his imagination.
- Unless Alfred went to the cafe just to sit there, the record of his purchases of food and drink would probably be on his credit account. Between the two of them, he and Selina could surely hack that information, even without whatever special file-cracking app they could reverse-engineer from Clean Slate.
- Umm or its a coincidence.
- Detectives aren't allowed to believe in coincidence.
- C'mon people, it's BATMAN. With enough prep time, he could have searched all the cafes in Florence to know which one Alfred was talking about. In fact, it's far-fetched to think he DIDN'T.
- There's actually a few ways they could've done it.
- Bruce might've asked Alfred the name of the cafe off-screen, just out of curiosity. Or Alfred has mentioned his favorite cafe in Florence before, but just never in that context, so Bruce always knew.
- Or, Bruce managed to narrow down his search by Alfred's preference and then asked around if a nice British gentleman ever came around each year and ordered the same drink. Once he knew the cafe, he and Selina might've gone there each day for lunch, just for the chance of meeting Alfred. Which would explain why Selina looked so bored in that final scene. Bruce has been dragging her there everyday! Yawn.
- Or, they always kept tabs on Alfred and knew when he was taking his vacation, and followed him the moment he got off the plane at Florence so they could stage a meeting.
- Alfred, being an ex-soldier and butler, will also most likely have a routine, which can be pieced together. Assuming he takes his holiday around about the same time every year, this narrows down the timeframe you have to be in Florence for. He'll most likely stay in the same hotels, go to the same places, etc — people will recognise and remember him. He also says that the cafe is 'on the banks of the Arno', which narrows it down a bit; find out which cafes sit by the river, go in them, ask about an Englishman who comes in around about the same time every year and order the same drink every time. If he goes there regularly, people will remember him or he'll leave a trail that can be followed. In short, it might take some time, but it's doable.
- Unlikely, since Alfred wouldn't have dreamed Bruce with Selena, who he knew only as a thief. He would've pictured Bruce with Miranda, who he knew only as a lovely woman he tried to set Bruce up with.
- Commissioner Gordon, who witnessed Talia gloating in her final moments about how she overwrote the reactor so the bomb would go off and said that her father's work was done, was there at Bruce's funeral; most likely he told Alfred the truth about Miranda. (Even if he didn't, the truth about her had probably become public knowledge anyway, because what reason would Gordon have to keep it a secret?) Gordon probably also told Alfred the story of how Selina courageously helped Batman to save Gotham. Hence Alfred's image of Selina was changed, and he imagined Bruce with her, since he knew Bruce was attracted to her.
- Selena may have actually been at the cafe and he only imagined Bruce with her.
- I can't see Alfred imagining Bruce and Selina together, since, even if Gordon told him about her, personally he still doesn't know enough to think that Bruce would make a life with her.
- It was always Alfred's dream that he would see Bruce in that cafe with a woman he loves. Since Selina was the only person who could possibly fill that role at that point (Rachel and Miranda having died), that's who Alfred saw. It's a dream image, it doesn't have to be completely coherent with what Alfred thought of Bruce's and Selina's relationship prospects. Since Rachel, Miranda, and Selina seemed to have been pretty much the only proper love interests Bruce had since he returned to Gotham, the only alternative to imagining Bruce with Selina was to imagine him sitting alone in that cafe. And that's something Alfred didn't want to see, because that would mean Bruce still hadn't settled down and still hadn't given up Batman, and would probably return to donning the cape.
- And besides, Alfred suggests that Bruce hook with Selina the moment he sees her picture. He just wanted to see Bruce stop being a shut-in and date somebody, and he wasn't picky about who.
- Not only that but they had no idea when exactly Alfred was gonna visit Florence, or if he was gonna visit Florence at all; maybe he was so grief-stricken by Bruce's death that he didn't want to visit Florence or the cafe anymore? Did Bruce and Selina hire a private detective to follow Alfred every day, so that they would know if and when he buys tickets to Florence? Did they move to Florence and sit in that cafe every day, so that they would be there when Alfred eventually visits it? (But what if he never comes?) Both options sound quite unlikely. The only way they could make sure he comes to Florence and to the cafe is to send Alfred an anonymous invitation to come visit the place, but in that case Alfred would've guessed the letter is from Bruce, and he wouldn't have looked as surprised as he did when he saw Bruce and Selina. Plus the whole trip would've been unnecessary, because the letter alone would've told Alfred that Bruce is alive. So it makes much more sense that the scene in the cafe wasn't real. Maybe Alfred did actually visit the cafe, but Bruce and Selina being there was merely a bittersweet product of his imagination.
The scene where Lucius Fox discovers the autopilot on the Bat is also false. Specifically, it is Alfred's rationalization of how Bruce could have survived.
- Reason One: Either the Bat survived a point-blank, city destroying nuclear explosion, or there was a second Bat. This second Bat was never mentioned before. It would have been stored with the other bat-equipment in Fox's cache, but wasn't stolen like the other bat-stuff. Apparently the League of Shadows couldn't see any use for a flying death machine. Finally, since it was in Lucius's cache and Lucius had no idea that Batman had patched it, Batman would have had to secretly break in to Lucius's vault in order to reprogram the second Bat. There would have been absolutely no reason for Batman to do this. Imagine if, in the big climax, the Bat had suddenly flown into a building because Bruce didn't ask the genius inventor to double-check his work.
- Reason Two: Lucius Fox couldn't make a working autopilot for the Bat. The technological genius, the guy who Batman consults on all his computer and gadgetry needs, couldn't do it, but Batman did. Bruce has never previously shown any programming experience. Did Bruce take programming classes while wandering the world, or did the League of Shadows train him in theatricality, deception, and HTML? If he's really a better programmer than Lucius Fox, a skill never shown mentioned before, why does he need to consult Fox?
- Uh, Lucius pretty much states outright that he hasn't created a working autopilot for the Bat because he doesn't have time, not because it's impossible, which is why he suggests Bruce, who at that point had nothing but time, do it. The fact that he makes the suggestion (mostly) seriously should indicate he thinks Bruce has the actual capacity.
Thematically, Batman has to be dead. One of the big themes of the movie was that the Dent Act was a mistake. It was built on selling people a lie about a dead hero. You can't just replace that with another lie about a dead hero - that invalidates the entire point.
- I'm not sure I'd agree with this, at least not entirely. The lie about Harvey Dent was harmful not just because it was a lie about a dead hero, but because it was a lie that called a man who ultimately didn't deserve it a hero and raised him up as a symbol of good and hope when he was ultimately no such thing; Dent failed as a symbol because he was ultimately just a man, and a broken, ruined, corrupted man at that (just as the first movie said could happen). The Dent Act was a mistake not just because of the lie, but because the lie was based on a rotten foundation to begin with. But Batman was always intended to be and ultimately became ‘more than just a man’, something bigger and better than just a man ever could be. To say that Batman "has to be dead" is ultimately to say that Batman is ultimately just a man, is ultimately just Bruce Wayne, when all three movies clearly stress the opposite; the symbol is more than just the man playing it. Ultimately, Batman doesn't need Bruce Wayne, alive or dead, because Batman is more than Bruce Wayne ever could be. So while Batman can survive Bruce Wayne's death, on the flip side, Bruce Wayne can walk away from Batman to live a happy life with the woman he loves and never look back because either way Batman doesn't need Bruce Wayne, alive or dead. Put simply, regardless of how many nuclear devices blow up over the seas outside Gotham the idea of Batman will ultimately never die, so the man calling himself Batman doesn't need to die.
This, of course, doesn't necessarily invalidate the WMG above — Bruce Wayne could just as easily be dead — but the movies also state that good people deserve to have their faith rewarded; Alfred is a good man, and he deserves to have his faith that Bruce Wayne is able to move on with his life and find happiness rewarded. So this troper finds it more fitting and will personally continue to take the more optimistic interpretation that Bruce Wayne survived.- Or, a certain reporter in metropolis was alerted and saved Batman.
- This theory only exists to explain how Batman is STILL ALIVE AFTER A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION! He must have gotten it working, and teleported just before the explosion.
- Also, wouldn't it be awesome if Batman was a time lord?
- You've seen what he wears on his face, YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW what he wears on his butt.
- First of all, dude, not funny. Second of all, yeah, probably. Whether or not Bane was literally born in the Pit, he's been there since he was a kid (or at least a young teenager). He knows firsthand what a bunch of violent, unrestrained criminals will try to do to someone much smaller and more vulnerable than they are, and it's highly implied that Talia's mother was gang-raped to death. Even if he wasn't assaulted when the mob sweeps over him for helping Talia escape, that's not unthinkable as part of his personal history, and it was probably part of why he protected kid Talia so fiercely. He probably helped shave her head and helped clothe her to hide her gender.
- Or because every villain with a living actor got a cameo.
- Except for most of them (like Maroni, Falcone, Zsasz, Two-Face unless you count archive footage, and all the other minor criminals)
- Crane got to run the Kangaroo Court because he was a former League of Shadows conspirator.
- Or because every villain with a living actor got a cameo.
We all know that Bruce is way too obsessed to ever really give up on being Batman. Even though he knows the city is in good hands, it's inevitable that at some point he'll feel the need to intervene again; possibly if and when the Joker escapes (Heath Ledger is deceased, RIP, but as far as we know the Joker is still alive in the Nolan-verse), Bruce will decide that he can't justify letting Robin face him alone, and he and Selina will return to Gotham, rested and refreshed, and ready to fight evil once more.
- Possibly, though the point about The Joker has been Jossed. Word of God is that he was put on trial and quietly executed after The Dark Knight.
- No, it hasn't. The novelization of Rises even states that the Joker is still alive and is currently the sole patient at Arkham, with no one else being allowed to plead insanity under the Dent Act, and even opens the door for the possibility that he's escaped.
- That's just the story the novelization goes by. Without it, one could assume the Joker may have been shot in the head by that SWAT officer.
- No, it hasn't. The novelization of Rises even states that the Joker is still alive and is currently the sole patient at Arkham, with no one else being allowed to plead insanity under the Dent Act, and even opens the door for the possibility that he's escaped.
- Agreed. Not only that, but if and when Bruce and Selina have children (Huntress?), we all know that there is only one man that Bruce would entrust to take care of his child while he and Selina are busy.
- Wayne's leg-brace is a clear precursor to a powered exoskeleton, which Blake will use to compensate for his lack of martial prowess; and the Nolan-verse seems to have tech rivaling Beyond's already.
- As for what he'll call himself; assuming the name Batman would bring the criminal underworld out against him and null the heroic sacrifice, and he definitely won't go by Robin (it's his friggin' name), so he'll adopt the Nightwing persona.
- Working title: Beyond Batman
- Alternately: The Dark Knight Beyond
- And one of the orphans staying at Wayne Manor is named Terry McGinnis
- Clint Eastwood as older Bruce. Not sure who would play Terry McGinnis though.
- Alternately, Clint Eastwood will play an older Blake, who will be an Expy for the older Bruce Wayne. Joseph Gordon-Levitt will play Terry McGinnis, a reference to the fact that in Batman Beyond Terry is Bruce Wayne's biological son.
- Or given the upcoming movie Premium Rush, maybe Bruce Willis will be the one who plays an older version of Joseph Gordon-Levitt's Robin.
- Alternately, Clint Eastwood will play an older Blake, who will be an Expy for the older Bruce Wayne. Joseph Gordon-Levitt will play Terry McGinnis, a reference to the fact that in Batman Beyond Terry is Bruce Wayne's biological son.
- Alternatively, perhaps the Joker was tried by the Scarecrow and killed or sentenced to exile, but either way ends up with death. As such, so long Joker.
- Considering the fact that he is embarrassed by the name Robin, he would probably take the name Nightwing.
- Or Knightwing
- Besides, the last villain dealt with is not necessarily the main villain, as was the case with the previous film too.
- The point of the destruction Bane caused was to demonstrate to Bruce just how fragile the victory he won in The Dark Knight really was; getting rid of the mob was meaningless. The corruption was in the city's bones, just below the surface, ready to rise again. That the morality he inspired in the city was a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble.
- Still, he drew out the Evil Plan needlessly with his way of "torturing an entire city" for months, and apparently intended to blow up along with the rest of Gotham, so screw Ra's al Ghul's vision. The point is, it was Bane's agenda that dominated.
The idea is that because Bane is established as a dangerously intelligent man, it's not too implausible to suggest that when he was "protecting" her in the Pit, he also began to brainwash her. The prisoners attack him because they realize the monster his brainwashing created. Talia is now a sort of fanatic devotee to him, which is why she comes back. After Bane got expelled from the League, he used Talia to gain the League's support again and as a mole. The revelation that she was a sort of Woman Behind the Man to Bane is either part of the trick or a clever bit of improvisation/lying to throw Batman off.
- Before Selina Kyle comes to the rescue, they have Batman at their mercy and are about to kill him. Why would they lie to him when he would be soon dead anyway?
- OP here. Bane could have been willing to let Talia think she was in charge, or at least an equal partner. After all, he made Daggett think that. So, Talia wasn't lying, exactly, because she didn't know the truth herself. Bane was the only one who knew the truth, and rather than lose Talia's and the League's support he rolled with it, as there wasn't much of a drawback.
- But if Bane was calling the shots, then he'd have no particular motive for completing Ra's work or destroying Bruce in the first place. Batman hadn't done anything to Bane except eliminate his predecessor in the League, whom he had no familial onus to avenge and several reasons to resent. Granted, he might've wanted to test his own strength and cunning against an opponent like Batman, but that's hardly something he'd have been willing to die for.
- It's clear that Bane is calling the shots in a lot of his scenes. The entire abduction of Dr. Pavel is clearly done by Bane and his men without Talia having anything to do with that. The robbery at the Stock Exchange was orchestrated, planned, and executed by Bane, and he made it look like he was doing it for Daggett.
- It's so awesome that it's true.
- He choose Robin as his first name because of a childhood nickname his parents created and Blake because he was adopted by the Blake's at on point in his life and his parents may or may not have been apart of the Hayley's circus in the Nolanverse.
- Even though it was found on a lie, it no longer matters now that Gotham is saved.
- Note that Bane was the one who originally offered it to Selina as a means of false hope, since Daggett taunted her for thinking that it was real.
However, the description is essentially a search engine, which can burrow through state and federal databases without authorization, combined with a delete button, that has enough power to destroy a lot of data across multiple websites in one shot. Both delete buttons and search engines exist, simply not on such a large scale. The only prototype was completely unusable and shelved somewhere as a failure, like most of Batman's things.
Since Bruce needed a way to persuade Selina onto his side, actually creating the Clean Slate saved some thinking time for persuasion, and also established him as being more credible than Bane.
- Ra's Al Ghul is still alive. He was down there with Bruce all the time, fascinated to see if he could break his daughter's Evil Plan. In the end, he recovers Talia's body and resurrects her and, who knows, maybe hooks her up with Bruce Wayne, his faith in his old pupil restored. I not only like to think that this is so, but i think it actually makes sense. The League of Shadows can't be dead just yet.
- Oh, and maybe Ra's will resurrect Bane too.
- We do see what happens to Jen — they grow apart ideologically, as shown in the "this used to be somebody's house"/"now it's everybody's house" scene. Jen even reaches out to touch her and Selina shrugs it off.
- After his arrest in The Dark Knight, the US government wanted nothing more than to execute the Joker. Unfortunately, due to his skill at manipulation, he made a mockery of the legal system while simultaneously having many people the world over in an uproar over America trying to get someone so obviously mentally ill executed. Finally Uncle Sam simply decided to just throw the Joker in the deepest, darkest hole they could find. One that made Guantanamo look like Disneyland. Since there were a few League of Shadows members in high places in the government, it quickly became obvious where to put him. The famously cruel Peña Duro; that would show that stupid clown! After murdering several (dozen) other prisoners, all the while thinking the 'hope' the pit offered was hilarious, the Joker came to the attention of the prison's current master, Bane. Bane and Talia remembered reading all about this clown, and the horror he put Batman through, and had to meet him. In the prison, even they were not immune to the Joker's mind games; and he slyly manipulated them into coming up with "their" plan to attack Gotham (telling Talia about the virtues of a 'slow knife,' for example). He offered them lots of ideas - free of charge - on the condition that neither Bane or Talia ever mention him to anyone. Finally the Joker talked them into letting him go free, satisfied Gotham was doomed. He wandered deep into the Middle East and no one knows where he is now.◊
- But as far as people know, Bruce Wayne disappeared months earlier, during Bane's initial attack.
- That really only lends credence to the theory, since that was when Batman originally disappeared also. And when Bruce returned to the city at the film's climax, he spent some time out of costume, during which he could have been sighted as Bruce.
- Or he could become Azrael by being a Batman that uses deadly force and considering that Bane breaking Batman was what made Azazel become Batman sooner than he expected. So a reversal of Azazel becoming Batman doesn't seem to far-fetched.
Since it's very unlikely that a full SWAT team already suited up in full gear would be ready to descend on such short notice (as under normal circumstances, in a large city, SWAT officers would be scattered wide across the city doing regular patrol duties while carrying their special gear in the trunks of their cars), it seems possible that Selina had told the police that someone would attempt to kill her. That the police were treating it like a sting operation would account for why Gordon and Foley, a police commissioner and a deputy commissioner, would be rolling on what would otherwise be a regular emergency call.
- The police are actively looking for the congressman, they know he is missing, and they fear a hostage situation. That SWAT team was likely on standby already to be ready and capable of rescuing the congressman as soon as they located him, which they did. If I remember right, Gordon ordered every cop in the city out looking for him.
- Not every cop. Remember that they still had to have a good portion of the force assigned to respond to regular 911 calls or perform street patrols, to whom the congressman would be second priority.
- Still, given that there's about two minutes between when Selina tricks Stryver into making the phone call and when the SWAT team arrives at the door, it seems as if the SWAT team had to have been no more than two to three blocks away from the bar at most. There are two possibilities from here on out:
- A) If the bar happens to be in a high-crime area like the Southwest Side of Chicago, and certain neighborhoods of St. Louis and Cleveland, the police respond so quickly because they perform saturation patrols.
- B) Before entering the bar, Selina Kyle uses the cell phone herself nearby to call the police so that they'll be brought to the area, but moves before they arrive so they're busy left wondering where in the nearby several blocks the Congressman is. When the phone pings a second time in the bar, they immediately home in on it because they're already doing a close search of the area, so the SWAT team immediately is sent to storm the place.
Very unlikely that Bane would have an Unlimited Wardrobe on hand in his lair, so it's possible he killed people to get stuff he needed. This would explain where he gets his motorcycle uniform, his helmet, and possibly even bikes and helmets for his accomplices in the robbery.
This was brought up on the IMDB FAQ. Some viewers speculate that since Bane is wearing his flak jacket when Selina blasts him with the Batpod's cannons, there's a chance he may have lived.
- At the same time, however, it should be noted that even if the round didn't pierce his armor, the impact trauma alone would have likely been enough to pulverize his insides and stop his heart. And given that this is the end of the trilogy, it's generally suggested Bane dies.
With all his other bits of technical genius, his Keyser Soze-esque masterstroke was inventing an algorithm which would completely erase his identity, making him the ultimate chaotic master criminal with no records of his existence and thus no way of properly pinning any crime on him. After he used it, he destroyed it but kept records in case he ever needed something valuable to offer as a bribe. This is how Selina and Daggett heard of it
After the plane hijacking, Bane and his men set up in the sewers below Gotham. No one knows of his existence, except for Gordon (who only accidentally discovers the lair due to the shootout that Selina Kyle instigates). I think no one in the Gotham public even knows that Bane exists until he and his men attack the Stock Exchange. After the Stock Exchange heist, Bane gets away and is not seen by anyone in the general public again until the football stadium attack, his second public appearance, where he quickly sets himself up as the warlord who just appeared out of nowhere.
This makes "No one cared who I was 'til I put on the mask" a case of foreshadowing.
The Penguin becomes the mayor of Gotham and turns it back into a crime ridden city.
Wayne Enterprises creates a product that messes with DNA and creates Man-Bat, Killer Croc, Posion Ivy, and/or Clayface.
Catwoman steals from Black Mask who then goes after her for revenge.
Lady Shiva regroups the League of Shadows and continues the assault on the Bat Family.
That's the in universe reason why no one ever mentions him.- And James Gordon is Sirius Black. Why so Sirius?
- Jossed. For all it's worth, gas mask or not, you can't survive being thrown backwards after being shot at point blank range with a motorcycle-mounted cannon that is designed to destroy cars and concrete walls.