Per wiki policy, Spoilers Off applies here and all spoilers are unmarked. You Have Been Warned.
Sherlock Holmes (2009)
- More fitting, Mycroft will be played by Stephen Fry. Come on, It would be Awesome!
- This here, ladies and gentlemen, has just been confirmed.
- As a real-life WMG, I suggest that the person who thought of that is a psychic or a Time Lord showing off knowledge of the future, or that the person doing the casting is a Troper.
- This here, ladies and gentlemen, has just been confirmed.
- I second that motion.
- Brotherhood makes it possible he could be from a rogue/splinter Templar faction, what with Il Lupo's Switchblade and pretty much every MP character having access to the Hidden Gun.
- As an alternative, Holmes could likely be an Assassin as well... Just with the genetics, not the upbringing. His entire Awesomeness by Analysis Sherlock Scan fighting style is built entirely on mashing the Counter button and using the same tactics as players.
- His Sherlock Scan is a response to his hyper-awareness... and he can't shut it off.
- Also in the ballroom scene in the second film where he's dancing with Sim:
- Sim: What do you see?Sherlock: Everything...it is my curse.
- But Holmes would be pretty old by then, don't you think? World War One began in 1914, whereas Holmes' endeavors ended that same year.
- He would be getting up there in age, but even if we accept a far longer timeline (rather than having Holmes spring up fully formed on the Year Zero of a Study in Scarlet) he would still have been at most higher-middle age. And while the canon books DO end in 1914, even if we disinclude absolutely all of the books afterwards, it is a stretch to believe that a rather able-bodied man who is so obsessed that he drugs himself into a stupor whenever he doesn't have a case would quit while he was ahead. And even for the era, the characters would be middle aged, which even back then did not mean old, infirm, or otherwise incapable of doing "heavy lifting." To illustrate, if we take the age of the actors and advance them ahead to the appropriate time the main trio (RD Jr.,Watson/Law, and Mc Adams) would be 66, 59, and 53 respectively. Certainly not young by any measure, but even by the standards of the era still capable (for reference, by 1918 the OHL had been putting into action plans to expand the draft limit to being 75 years of age, and while part of that may have been from their state of collapse at the time, they still believed they could fight). At the time of the actual armistice, they would be even younger. . (note to self, find ways to respond to responses without generating a massive Wall of Text every time you hit the edit button).
- No, this is perfect, then Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry could play the aged Sherlock and Watson and all this troper's dreams would have come true.
- Remember also that Holmes is younger than Watson. Robert Downey Jr.'s age compared to that of Jude Law could just display how Holmes bedraggles himself in ways that Watson does not.
- In the Conan Doyle canon, Holmes is born in 1854 and solves the last case in the summer of 1914 (His Last Bow), uncovering a German spy, afterwards he retired from detective work and turned to beekeeping.
- He would be getting up there in age, but even if we accept a far longer timeline (rather than having Holmes spring up fully formed on the Year Zero of a Study in Scarlet) he would still have been at most higher-middle age. And while the canon books DO end in 1914, even if we disinclude absolutely all of the books afterwards, it is a stretch to believe that a rather able-bodied man who is so obsessed that he drugs himself into a stupor whenever he doesn't have a case would quit while he was ahead. And even for the era, the characters would be middle aged, which even back then did not mean old, infirm, or otherwise incapable of doing "heavy lifting." To illustrate, if we take the age of the actors and advance them ahead to the appropriate time the main trio (RD Jr.,Watson/Law, and Mc Adams) would be 66, 59, and 53 respectively. Certainly not young by any measure, but even by the standards of the era still capable (for reference, by 1918 the OHL had been putting into action plans to expand the draft limit to being 75 years of age, and while part of that may have been from their state of collapse at the time, they still believed they could fight). At the time of the actual armistice, they would be even younger. . (note to self, find ways to respond to responses without generating a massive Wall of Text every time you hit the edit button).
Tell me you can't imagine that.
This has to be self-evident. The film is set right around the time the Whitechapel murders happened. We know that Blackwood killed 5 women before being caught. Now, how can we accept an universe where Sherlock Holmes does exist, but that such a notorious crime in London goes unsolved?
- There's a line of dialogue that can be read as hinting this: "Those young women were not the first to be butchered... no one could prove anything, but we all knew."
- Except all but one of Jack the Ripper's five canonical victims were in their forties, not young.
- Or, alternatively, Blackwood was not the Ripper, but he was perfectly content to take credit for it to enhance his Antichrist image in the secret society. There's no evidence for or against besides the musings of a mystic, but Blackwood likes to play up a specific image of himself that seems at odds with the grubby Ripper.
Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows (2011)
According to the trailer, Holmes was dressed up in Mary's clothes and a wig. He figured that Watson was in danger so Holmes took Mary off the train. Put on her clothes and makeup to help Watson while keeping Mary out of harms way. He probably had Mycroft or Lestrade make sure she was safe while he went off to help Watson.
- Well, he certainly did get her out of harm's way....
"The university" does not refer to either Oxford or Cambridge, but to Trinity College, Dublin. He mentions that he is descended from "country squires," though he refrains from mentioning WHICH country. He at least once mentions an interest in the Celtic languages. There was definitely a well-known Holmes family in Galway during that period (Robert Holmes, the famous barrister). The biggest piece of evidence can be found in his retiring years; Holmes gives up the hustle and bustle of city life to spend his days divided "between philosophy and agriculture" in a decidedly ascetic manner, much like the so-called "Green Martyrs" of 4th and 5th century Ireland.
Naturally, due to the bigotry that an Irishman would have faced in Victorian London, Holmes kept his heritage a secret even from Watson.
- ...Which at last explains why "Rocky Road to Dublin" played during the pit fight in the first film. (But note that "country squires" refers to the countryside, not to a particular geographic location.)
Most obviously both 'Moriarty' and 'Moran' are definitely Irish surnames - the former is from Co. Kerry, the later from Co. Mayo. Morever both would have been born either just before or during the Great Famine which would have been unlikely to engineer positive feelings towards Britain in them. In turn this bitterness towards Britain would eventually lead to crime.
- Moran as a disgruntled Irishman goes against canon. In The Adventure Of The Empty House Doyle openly says he had been born in London and enjoyed a privileged birth and early life, as son of Sir Augustus Moran, British Minister to Persia.
- My guess? She's locked up somewhere, in very poor health from being poisoned, waiting for rescue. The rescue will drive the plot of the third movie.
- Or perhaps Irene pulled the same trick Holmes did when he "died" for the same reason, both in the original story and in the film. She faked her death, stayed under the radar to avoid being attacked again, didn't inform anybody so long as Moriarty is active as a crime boss, and will come back in time when the inevitable sequel rolls around. Strange minds do think alike, of course.
- Considering this page's record so far, let's hope. Nobody likes a bridge dropping.
- Also, Moran was there too, and we don't see him leave. Maybe he's about to cart Irene off to wherever Moriarty has planned.
- Also, note Sherlock's reaction to the handkerchief on the ferry. He sniffs it, smiles briefly, then throws it overboard. This suggests either that he knows she isn't dead or he's saying goodbye. This leaves the director with wriggle room to bring her back if necessary.
- Let's not forget that René's supposed blood in the letter was actually a wine stain. Sherlock might as well have detected that Irene's blood on the handkerchief is fake and smiled to himself. Coming from the woman who outwitted Holmes himself in the past, she would be smart enough to realize that Moriarty was never going to let her retire freely and would make contingencies if she had to go underground.
- 'Also' also, the whole plot of the first movie revolves around the idea that there is a method of faking death good enough to fool a professional doctor. I mean, Irene was there, and she wasn't dumb.
- Also, something else worth noting for Moriarty: the man isn't a fool. He usually keeps an ace up his sleeve in some form or another throughout the books and the movie. Secondly, he obviously knows enough about Holmes to appreciate his emotional attachments and morality as strengths even if he can't appreciate or feel them himself (which might be why he acts as chummy as he does with "Hired Gun" Moran: trying to cultivate a minion with the same level of attachment and motivations as the Holmes gang has without the "disadvantage" of Moriarty being beholden to Moran like Holmes is to his friends and loved ones). Killing Irene offhand neutralizes one of Holmes's enduring allies and would cripple him, but otherwise not stop him. Saving her for later runs the risk of her coming out from behind to mess things up, but if nothing else would be valuable in splitting their attention between herself and something else, or acting as a hostage.
- I would be surprised if he wasn't.
- Holmes is the Eleventh Doctor, Irene is River, Watson is Rory, and Mary is Amy. They all act like them so very much.
- Bear with me here, but there is a distinct possibility. Holmes is shown to survive the fall from the castle by using the oxygen device he ostensibly took from Mycroft. This got me wondering - why on earth would Mycroft have had one in the first place? Simple - the altitude of the castle meant the air would be thin. Thus, all the guests of summit would likely have had such a device - including Moriarty.
- Mycroft is a Bunny-Ears Lawyer for one of the most mysterious parts of the British intelligence system, and quite actively lazy (even in the books, if I recall correctly). I took it to mean that his carrying a personal oxygen tank was simply a sign of his eccentricity, the way a modern version of him might carry an asthma inhaler with 32 gigabytes of memory and a temple massager, or, yes, some rich/famous people hire someone to follow their entourage with an oxygen tank in case they feel like taking a hit off of it to spruce up their thinking ability. That does not invalidate the possibility that other guests took the same precaution, be they for similar or more practical reasons (the latter being primarily tight waist cinches and thin air, especially in an environment with dancing and dramatics). Also, Edit Tip # 9 .
- Because it's hard to imagine how Sequel Escalation can keep ratcheting up and up and up. The first had an attempted British Coup d'etat, and the second had Moriarty planning on starting World War One with an appropriate amount of firepower and uniformed thugs to fit the situation. So, how're they going to escalate this? By actually having World War One or at a minimum the Panther Crisis. Also likely that Professor Challenger will feature in, likely as a parallel to Irene's role and/or as the Disc-One Final Boss before the real villains- Moriarty/Moran/the Germans/other/some combination of the aforementioned- are revealed. Most likely forcing Teeth-Clenched Teamwork. Even odds on whether Irene herself's alive or dead.
- And perhaps Simza moved to Montenegro before Nero was born.
- At the end of his Iron Man career, Tony Stark got sent back in time and created a personality based on stories he'd read. The local technology isn't advanced enough for him to build another Iron Man suit (no computers, no composite materials), so he makes do with his wits instead. This may be why the technology of the period seems a bit more advanced than in real life. Either Tony's "inventing" stuff off the side or someone found bits of one of his suits and it got spread around. He learned how to fight from either Rhodey or Captain America.
Holmes never had confidence in Lestrade as an inspector because he knows he didn't earn it and simply rode Holmes' coattails to do so. He would constantly hint at Lestrade's incompetence and inability to do the job he shouldn't have (the act they did for Coward in the first one had Holmes making fun of Lestrade in that sense to the point of calling him a criminal in getting the job, which gave Lestrade the opportunity to finally punch Holmes in the gut for it and get away with it). Despite the constant badgering about not deserving to be an inspector, Lestrade did begrudgingly grow to respect Holmes and be grateful for his skills.
Rathe/Ehtar became even more volatile and cruel after the death of his equally fanatical sister to the point that he sought criminal means of obtaining riches and power so as to reinvent himself as Moriarty, creating and living out a whole new life just to make sure he fooled everyone he came into contact with. If he wasn't doing it to avenge his sister (who he may have never actually cared about in the first place), he was doing it for his own ravenous need to inflict destruction and damage as many people as possible while lacking any traits of empathy and understanding if he had any at all (his parents were clearly fanatics who either brought out these traits in him with their own radical actions and behaviors or amplified them the same way). Holmes figured out who he was and treated him like a different person because he no longer saw any trace of the Rathe he thought was his friend, but Ehtar fully realized in all his horrible glory with the new name and identity he had made for himself.
Elizabeth's murder, though he showed some optimism for the future, caused Holmes to become deeply traumatized and depressed to the point that he took to drinking and drugs in order to cope with the pain. Adler, though he cared about her, was never what Elizabeth was to her and that's why her death didn't affect him as much. He wasn't necessarily detatched, but certainly not invested enough to feel that same pain. Holmes also became dependent on Watson as his crutch to keep him sane to point that he saw Watson's relationship and ultimate engagement to her as a threat to himself because it would destroy his inability to avoid his pain over Elizabeth that he never let go.
Finally, when Holmes nearly died on the train but was then revived, the ridiculous dream he described wasn't actually what he saw. The horror was from his life and all the terrible things that happened in it flashing before his eyes and it terrified him to the point that it would be too dreadful to repeat any of it.
What would REALLY be fun is to have the antagonist in fact be Fantômas who has the potential to be as dangerous as, or even more than, Professor Moriarty.
- Actually, this would make a scary amount of sense. Firstly, the movie expanded universe trope is extremely common nowadays, so adding in another character (or two) gives great potential for spin-offs, and to this troper's knowledge no big Hollywood adaptation of Arsene Lupin has yet to be done. Secondly, it's more or less canon that Lupin and Sherlock exist in the same universe, with Maurice Leblanc writing several encounters between the thief and detective. Thirdly, if they decide to have a large timegap between Game of Shadows and the third movie, the in-universe timelines will match, as Lupin first encounters Sherlock (in the original novels) when Sherlock was close to the end of his career. It's a pretty natural way to up the ante from the "Sherlock vs. Moriarty" story, while simultaneously expanding the universe within the (rough) confines of canon and providing a natural 'out' for Downey to end his Sherlock career and give way to a new, yet similar, character. If all the copyright formalities work out to allow for this, it would be a huge wasted opportunity not to do it.
- If the timeline doesn't make sense for the third film (ostensibly long after the Ripper cases), it doesn't have to. The Jack the Ripper cases were never solved, so if the movie takes place long after the original murders, Jack could simply have made a reappearance somehow, and thus the retired, cynical, and disillusioned Abberline teams up with Holmes and Watson to stop another series of murders, knowing that the ignorance and corruption in the police force impeded him from solving them the first time.
- Having it take place long after the murders also opens up the possibility to add in original characters or plots, or even other canon characters, like bringing back Moran and resolving that dangling thread from the second movie, or introducing Wiggins and the Baker Street Irregulars.
- Can also tie in with the first film, saying somehow that perhaps Jack was inspired by Lord Blackwood's murders (or vice-versa)
- Aside from an Arsène Lupin plot, this would likely make the most sense for a third installment, as it not only can raise the stakes with a lot of visceral murders, it's also one of the most well-known stories of Holmes, apart from Holmes vs Moriarty, which was already done. Maybe less room for a full expanded universe, but still has great potential!