- Jossed. The guidebooks explicitly mention the Ebon Dragon as a potential future member of the Neveborn known as the "The Dragon that Was."
- Also, Virtues are removed in 3 edition.
- This may shed new light on why the Solar Exalted were so quick to fall from grace themselves...it's In the Blood, you see.
- The Great Curse was canonically caused by the Neverborn. That would explain why Hunters are all insane, though, if they're the new Solars.
- It's mentioned in Demon: the Fallen that Lucifer actually was able to rule for a time before God did an smackdown and things went back to being crap. Why is this important? The original idea (now dropped) for Exalted was that it was the precursor to the Old World of Darkness.
- Note that the newer idea rumors Exalted to be a precursor to the real world, so maybe Sol was our Lucifer.
- Incidentally this also means that God is a chthuloid monster.
- Unless the Yozis and the Neverborn actually being the Primordials before their defeat was just propaganda on the part of the gods, who would have a vested interest in demonizing their predecessors. Also, the Yozis only became Eldritch Abominations after being beaten; the whole multiple souls thing was an expression of their transcendence and general superiority, not incomprehensible monstrosity. Gaia is technically a Primordial, yet is 'normal' enough to still be worshipped by non-Immaculate mainstream humanity.
- Glories of the Most High: the Unconquered Sun was specifically created by the Primordials to embody virtue. (This was deemed a necessity by them as the Ebon Dragon's concept required something to rebel against, as his shadow needed a light to cast it.)
- Traditionally, Lucifer is created by God who embodies good and virtue. Unconquered Sun's creation is the exact opposite - he was created by an entity that embodies evil and malevolence(the Dragon's Shadow AKA Ebon Dragon).
- You're assuming, of course, that Judeo-Christian ideas of God and the history of the universe are infallibly accurate. In a White Wolf production, this is an incredibly dangerous position to take.
- Traditionally, Lucifer is created by God who embodies good and virtue. Unconquered Sun's creation is the exact opposite - he was created by an entity that embodies evil and malevolence(the Dragon's Shadow AKA Ebon Dragon).
- Alternatively, and taking a page from Gnosticism, the Unconquered Sun is Jesus and Theion (later Malfeas) was the Demiurge.
- This was actually canon for a long time, though in a circuitous route. In Hunter: The Reckoning, you find out that the Messengers have come to earth before and empowered mortals (the book makes it fairly clear that the Hunters are a new take on the Solars). You then find out, in Time of Judgment, that the Messengers are actually 1 Messenger: Lucifer, and this is not the first time he's tried this. Basically, until they moved the canon away from the World of Darkness, yes, the Unconquered Sun was Lucifer.
- So in Demon and Hunter, God Is Evil and Satan Is Good, and The Bible's just wrong? That would mean that "God" in D:F is actually all the Primordials, not just one entity. It also doesn't work with the "Cain is an Abyssal, God is Sol" theory. The "God" in Vampire would have to be different from the "God" in Demon and H:tR. And if Lucifer is Sol what does that make the oWoD angels and demons? Angels = the devas and demons of Exalted, and oWoD demons = those who left their Yozis to become minor gods? It also begs the question why Sol Invictus would ask his new Chosen to kill all the Chosen of Luna and the Maidens, aka shapeshifters and mages.
- It never mashed up perfectly, but that WAS the answer for a while.
- Actually, it does not imply God Is Evil and Satan Is Good, as that would imply the Sun is Good. While later fluff trends in this direction, earlier fluff made the morality of what the Incarna did very blurry. Second, God does not have to be different from Vampire to Demon, just a different interpretation. Or, as one of the Hunter supplements indicated, God is another entity entirely and, eventually (another demon supplement backs this up) got pissed off at what happened, moved against the Sun, and finally set up Hell. Basically, the Demons in Dt F would be... gods. It was all very messy, but kind of fun to try to make sense of.
- So in Demon and Hunter, God Is Evil and Satan Is Good, and The Bible's just wrong? That would mean that "God" in D:F is actually all the Primordials, not just one entity. It also doesn't work with the "Cain is an Abyssal, God is Sol" theory. The "God" in Vampire would have to be different from the "God" in Demon and H:tR. And if Lucifer is Sol what does that make the oWoD angels and demons? Angels = the devas and demons of Exalted, and oWoD demons = those who left their Yozis to become minor gods? It also begs the question why Sol Invictus would ask his new Chosen to kill all the Chosen of Luna and the Maidens, aka shapeshifters and mages.
- Amusingly, this means that the Death Knights may be Creation's only hope.
- Given that the Green Sun Princes are apparently free-willed, this theory may just be an interesting Myth Arc idea.
- Think about it. In other threads where 3e was being discussed, he also said that 'being exiled for a crime too intolerable...too unthinkable' could happen to Sidereals, and it's long been a theme with the Fellowship that they are their own worst enemies. With the wealth most Sids have, they could likely buy a hearthstone of immortality, and even one Sidereal, if rogue, could cause quite a lot of damage to the future/the Loom of Fate/Whatever it is the Sidereals are protecting.
- And confirmed; his name is Rakan Thulio.
- Dreams of the First Age and Scroll of Exalts both list him as a Sidereal... unless he's using Twisted Words Technique. Were you wearing your tinfoil hat when you read them?.
- If anyone is capable of pulling off a scam so excellently that even omniscient narrators in a different reality are fooled, wouldn't it be the Solars?
- The only problem I can see with this is that Wood and Earth have somehow been combined into a single element. Though that might provide another explanation for the dependence on Alchemy; with two elements merged, Creation became unstable.
- The Wo D doesn't have to worry about Raksha, because Sol and Luna are holding them off full-time, and not playing the Games of Divinity.
- Not to mention Adrián (who later became Adorjan) who formed an ever-flowing river bordering Creation.
- According to the 2nd edition Fair Folk supplement, the Primordials were originally Unshaped Fair Folk. They chose to become something else when they forged Creation.
- The truth of that explanation is explicitly stated to be ambiguous at best. The Fair Folk care more about the fact that it makes a good story than about whether or not that's what actually happened.
- Jossed by Glories of the Most High.
- ...a tabletop RPG.
- ...a metaphor for Poop Socking.
- ...an abstract representation of events in Creation, allowing those who play them a much higher level of influence and awareness in Creation than they could ever have by appearing in person. Thus, becoming absorbed in the Games is not a sign of negligence, after all. This also explains how the Incarnae could spend all their time playing the Games and still know pretty much everything that goes on in Creation.
- This one is actually specifically spelled out as not the case in the very first place they appear, the aptly-named book The Games of Divinity. In fact, that was the one thing that that book definitively stated about the Games. Every other write-up on Yu-Shan since then has been very careful to specifically and definitively repeat that statement that, whatever the Games of Divinity are, they have no effect on Creation and are specifically not games involving the fate of Creation itself in any way.
- ...Exalted itself.
- ... something incredibly and hilariously inane, like tag or hide-and-seek.
- ... a simulation of our world.
- ... also know as Scion.
- ... Pugmire (Luna dominates this game).
- ... Pong.
- ... The Old World of Darkness/Classic World Of Darkness.
- ... The New World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness.
- ... Cavaliers of Mars.
- ... Trinity Continuum.
- ...all of the theories listed in this section. And none. It's a bit confusing, for mortals.
- a subtle trap left behind by the Primordials.
- ...a lie. The Incarnae rebelled for some other reason, and aren't interfering Creation for whatever handwavey reason all those other gods in assorted fictional settings don't interfere.
- Maybe their noninterference was the price they paid to keep the Yozi bound for all time?
- ...Tetris.
- ...Call Of Duty
- ...A literal cosmic Xbox. Or Empyrean Everquest. Or any other literal interpretation of the mocking nicknames fans give the Games.
- ...Calvinball.
- ...The Game.
- ...Damn it.
- ...Dungeons & Dragons.
- ...Mortal Kombat.
- ...I Wanna Be The Guy.
- ...Cluedo.
- ...Monopoly. They want to stop playing, but they can't because somebody keeps landing on Free Parking whenever they're about to go bankrupt.
- Probably the Maiden of Endings, for irony value.
- ...Nothing. The gods that play it just snicker the whole time, and make up elaborate rumors as to what other people should think the Games of Divinity are.
- ...Scissors, paper, rock.
- ...A succession game of Dwarf Fortress
- Tv Tropes obviously.
- According to Glories of the Most High, they are merely a game, if a transcendent game operating on conceptual levels that even the gods can barely understand. Not an eidolon of reality, not fate, not anything like that, merely a games device. And one that's totally addictive to anyone less than a Primordial who sits down to play them, which would seem to be the same kind of posthumous revenge on the gods that the Great Curse was on the Exalted.
- Also, the gods canonically did not rebel just to, or even primarily to, get their hands on the Games. The Unconquered Sun didn't even start playing them willingly, one of the last free acts of the Primordials was to coerce him to.
- Whatever they are, we know they only have a limited number of controllers/pieces/whatever - one of the Primordials obsessed over it and would get antsy when it was someone else's turn. The scoring in the Sidereals book might just be total scores over a number of rounds.
- Upon further reading of Infernals: Cosmic X-Box is pretty close to it. They have controllers (the section on Adorjan) and a power source (the Defiler Caste summary). It's just that it's a supernaturally addictive X-box powered by the world.
- Upon further reading of some Wyld and raksha lore: Cosmic X-Box, with procedurally generated content that uses the whole Creation as an RNG/source of ideas. So, not Games affecting the world, but the world being reflected in the Games, with no feedback.
- Jossed by Abyssals 2e, Glories of the Most High, and several other places: the canonical origin of the Great Curse is the Neverborn. Also, according to the UC's stats in Glories of the Most High, he's only unbeatable under certain circumstances: the UC's base power level is "merely" that of an extremely extremely powerful god. His "perfect" effects (and he has perfects not just for defense but for damn near everything he does) all possess variants of the Four Flaws of Invulnerability: they can and will crap out if he's maneuvered into circumstances where he has to act against or suppress the relevant Virtue. Granted, as the god who not only embodies but actually defines the four Virtues, this is easier said than done, but it is possible. Just. Barely.
- ... exactly. According to this theory (which, yes, contradicts canon dating back to the Corebook about Neverborn being the culprits), some Solar created the Great Curse so that Sol would get so disgusted with Creation he would systematically suppress his Virtues, becoming beatable, which is exactly what happened.
- Jossed by Abyssals 2e, Glories of the Most High, and several other places: the canonical origin of the Great Curse is the Neverborn. Also, according to the UC's stats in Glories of the Most High, he's only unbeatable under certain circumstances: the UC's base power level is "merely" that of an extremely extremely powerful god. His "perfect" effects (and he has perfects not just for defense but for damn near everything he does) all possess variants of the Four Flaws of Invulnerability: they can and will crap out if he's maneuvered into circumstances where he has to act against or suppress the relevant Virtue. Granted, as the god who not only embodies but actually defines the four Virtues, this is easier said than done, but it is possible. Just. Barely.
- Stunts have already been explained in canon — it's the pattern spiders, who tweak the laws of physics in the favor of people who really impress them.
- Then again, creatures outside of Fate can still Stunt - in most cases better than Creation-Born. So there must be something else going on...
- Well, out in the Wyld, things explicitly run on narrative causality, not physics. Of course stunting would work better there.
- Autochthon built the pattern spiders and has his own set of Mark 2's.
- Then again, creatures outside of Fate can still Stunt - in most cases better than Creation-Born. So there must be something else going on...
- Interestingly, there is no stated "God" of the Games or the Jade Pleasure Dome... but in World of Darkness, one of God's names (in the East) is the August Personage of Jade. Coincidence? I think NOT
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Emperor The closest thing you've got, when you try to shoehorn Asian Celestial bureacracy into Abrahamic monotheism.
- Word of God about the upcoming "Return of the Scarlet Empress" supplement says otherwise: part of the Ebon Dragon's master plan for the Akuma Empress is that she has access to the high-level Terrestrial Exalted Dynasty charms and is the direct ancestor of the vast majority of Dragon-Blooded now alive. Which, of course, means that she is a Dragon-Blooded (as the Dynasty charms don't work for anyone but Dragon-Blooded).
- It's out now. It has stats. She's an Earth-aspected Dragon-Blood.
- The age thing can be explained with four words: "Gem of Immortality hearthstone". As for power, well, most Dragon-Bloods are limited by their lifespans - which, with said gem, suddenly stops being an issue for Her Redness.
- There's also an example of an unusually long-lived Dragon-Blooded in Dreams of the First Age — Saibok Gauto, who was over 3000 years old (even if hopelessly senile). Add in that the Scarlet Empress had Legendary Breeding (hell, in the Age of Sorrows the Breeding background is practically defined by how genetically close you are to the Scarlet Empress) and the part where the entire Bronze Faction was manipulating the Loom of Fate hardcore to enable her rise to power, and its hardly surprising that she'd end up with an unusual lifespan.
- Jossed in Return of the Scarlet Empress. Her stats are that she is an earth aspect dragon blood (that is Akuma or just under controll of the ring depending on ST choice).
- Personally, this troper has always believed that Her Redness's hun was that of Solar Queen Merela. Lord knows that, given what has been written regarding Merela, there is more than a little similarity in personality and inclinations between them.
- She definitely used every trick in the book and then invented some more to stave off aging effects, including highly immoral, and at least 3e fluff implies that she's kept running by Imperial Manse hearthstone (which she always keeps touching her skin or inset in artifact). Also, Mnemon stopped aging too, and she's a Dragon-Blooded without any doubts. Empress prowess speaks more of ineptitude of other Dragon-Blooded - during the Shogunate she was an ordinary leutenant, just with a legendary Breeding.
- This was acknowledged at least as far back as the first edition book The Autochthonians.
- Among other things, he's a full-fledged mortal sorcerer, so at least some of his ineptitude is fake due to the nature of the trials.
- Conversely, Unicron is The Engine of Extinction from an alternate Creation.
- Except this doesn't fit Malfeas' nature or thought process at all. Malfeas is totally solipsistic. "The powerful get to make their own rules" fits Cecelyne, not Malfeas
- Alternatively (this is a blatant rip-off of something Path mentioned on The Freedom Stone, not my idea; I just think it's cool), he's an Alchemical.
- Well, Co TD:South explicitly mentions that he's a former scavenger with nothing but enlightened essence. Only the sceptre kept him alive so long. Also, his lack of Solar Exaltation is far from a mystery: Solar Exaltations generally happen when one is in deep trouble (be it an enemy army surrounding your troops, being cornered by a few enemies, or simply having a mixture of Villainous BSoD and mid-life crisis (That'd be Panther, the signature Zenith)). The Prefect never really had any challenge, his sceptre did all the work for him, all he had to do was minor political manoeuvring at the beginning of his reign. If he was a Sidereal, he'd rule half of creation by now with the resources he has.
- Orrrr...he's a Sidereal who hasn't Exalted yet. Exaltations are written on the Loom of Fate, as would be something major like his finding the Sceptre. It's simply not part of the celestial plan for him to Exalt yet- that's why he can't.
- I always thought that his hun is the reincarnation of the Scepter's maker. And that's why he managed to attune and master it.
- The Auditors could be first-circle demons of She Who Lives In Her Name, who never got along very well with A'Tuin.
- Lu-Tze is clearly a Sidereal. Perhaps too clearly.
- More likely that the nutrient flows are an aspect of the physical weakness that his Charms give him. We know that he is dying because he can't feed himself without access to the Wyld, so the nutrient flows are likely mostly for himself.
- Objection: Gaia is still around! Gaia is also exploring the depths of the Wyld, and has been for thousands of years. There is no contradiction between these two statements. Primordials can do weird things like manifest in multiple places at once, and a Primordial's jouten is that Primordial—if you kill them, it's Neverborn time, regardless of the status of their other jouten. If the Gaia in Creation dies, so does the one in the Faraway, and vice versa. Gaia is only gone in the sense that she has only one jouten holding down the fort in Creation at the moment—but that jouten is still her, with all of her power, intellect, and personality.
- My belief is that if Gaian Exalted exist, they are actually repurposed Exalted shards from lost Exalted types whose concepts were eradicated in the Three Spheres Cataclysm (i.e.: the shards of Fltarlgl are functional, but since they can only attach to people who embody Fltarlgl, and Fltarlgl does not exist except as some random string of letters meant to embody a concept this writer can't actually fathom, they're kinda SOL).
- For the Record, my Gaia Season/Virtue pairings: Spring = Compassion (A time of sowing, new birth), Summer = Valor, Fall = Temperance (a moderation between the extremes), and Winter = Conviction (a hardy season, testing those who walk through it). In theory, they may be free of the Great Curse, since: a) the Yozi didn't know of them, as secretive as they were; or b) they hadn't been created yet. As child of Gaia, they also may have their own Shintai charms, since she IS a Primordial. Where Alchemicals develop attachments and "moduals," Gaian Exalts "grow" some of their charms. Nothing else has really been defined, since I'm not good at rule-writing (esp. new Charms), but here's my basic concepts.
- Of course, everyone in Exalted has to have a Fatal Flaw, no matter how minor it may be, so a big fear for them is the potential to become assimilated into Gaia's ecosystem and become little more than a slightly-individualized Hive Mind.
- Not so much WMG, really. It's one of the easiest and fastest ways to describe Raksha to people having difficulty understanding them. Then everything falls into place.
- If you've every had played a dungeon crawl, you know that players can have their characters engage in objectively sociopathic behavior: cheerfully invading someone's home to murder them and take their possessions, getting frustrated and angry when they defend themselves, committing over the top or downright bizarre acts of violences, waiving around ten-foot poles... or if your fan of video games: helping yourself to other's possessions, putting baskets over their heads, or telling people exactly what they want to hear in order to maximize a relationship value. Even the slave trade with the Guild is comparable to buying and painting miniatures for use in a game.
- Not WMG, it's... exactly what was intended.
- Although, a real kicker would be if they weren't the Sidereals, they were the 100 Abyssals, each of whom is a potential Solar that has had the Great Curse removed from them! After all, even just 100 Solars free from the Curse and raised properly could do a lot to rebuild Creation.
- Except Abyssals are not chosen at birth, their Exaltation is attracted by being on the brink of death and exists outside of Fate.
- So... that makes Malfeas the Anti-Spiral King? I'm okay with this.
- Problem: Ghosts can, and usually do, decide to eventually let go and pass through Lethe. This includes Solar ghosts-Shogun Widowmaker and the Deathlords are explicitly called out as aberrations, in that they're evil, grasping jerks without the Great Curse.
The Army marches, the Sun shines, the Daystar obliterates, and the Dragon's servants betray. Earth is healed, the Shadow's works cast down, and the Dragon himself is slain.
Just as planned.
The Ebon Dragon had finally figured out that he was the problem linking all his failures; that his own nature was what was holding him back and what would ultimately cause his demise. Faced with self-destruction, he selfishly chose to betray his own nature to preserve his existence. He crafted the ultimate tale of megalomaniacal villainy, one his enemies could never resist the urge to thwart. He set them up against a suitably terrifying and invincible dragon: of course, his enemies would assume, a coward such as he could never bring himself to face them in a form less impossible to slay; surely he must have forgotten that they achieve the impossible all the time. It would never occur to any of them that a coward such as the Ebon Dragon could betray his own Fetich Soul and force it to take the fall for him.
The being that had once been the Shadow of All Things would reform in a manner that could not be predicted, but it would have a chance to exist in a way that the Ebon Dragon never could. Even if it were to reform in perfect reflection of its self-created nemesis the Sun, the very concept of perfect invincibility would be undermined, and so to must be the concept of perfect failure. The Dragon Reborn might have a chance at actually succeeding at something for once in its miserable existence.
And if the unthinkable should happen and the Solars should somehow FAIL to do the impossible, then he rules the world with a shadowy fist for a while. Good enough. The plan can always be tried again when the inevitable uprising finally comes.
Of course, being a plan of the Ebon Dragon, it has one humongous hole in it: it relies on none of the Army of Light being clever enough to realize that the dancing shadow on the ground might actually be more important that the great honking dragon casting it, and focusing their attacks on it instead.
But maybe the Neverborn have the right idea anyway. Maybe it's time to stop trying to screw all the other players and just kick the board over already.
Not that the Neverborn actually want anything to do with him, of course. He's enough of a pain already.
- So being all about betrayal, he decides the only chance he has to succeed is to betray himself? Very meta.
- ....I thought this was canon. Truth is, from everything that can be ascertained, the Primordials were uncaring, not cruel. Taking apart the Clay Man to see how he worked and to torment Autocthon was sort of like the cool kids stealing the creepy nerd's favorite action figure and looking at the inside before putting it back together haphazardly from their perspective. Jerky, but not evil. As mentioned in the Character Sheet, the Yozis only really became bitter and malevolent after their imprisonment for things they couldn't understand. The part about the Sun is wrong, though; Compass of Celestial Directions: Autocthonia makes it clear he thought the Primordials were being callous based on the ambivalent attitude they had towards humans and Dragon Kings.
- They are a case of Blue-and-Orange Morality. Being Eldritch Abominations who originally dwelt in the primal chaos of the Wyld, they have no frame of reference for understanding or sympathizing with most of what they created any more than a human can meaningfully communicate with a houseplant. Also, because each of them embodies a singular principle, they have no ability to perceive the world from any perspective other than that principle. The gods, designed specifically to administer Creation, had an easier time learning to sympathize with it. The Primordials locked themselves in Yu Shan to play the Games of Divinity and had a much more detached view of Creation. That said, they tormented the heck out of beings like humans because they just regarded them as animals that were intelligent enough to pray coherently, and because the principles many of the Primordials embody are antithetical to human happiness, or in some cases survival.
- While the UCS does kind of give definition to the Ebon Dragon—his coming into being gave the Ultimate Darkness a shape and real power—but he still existed before that, after a fashion, and his intent in Rot SE to destroy the Sun implies that he can go on without him.
- Perhaps the Unconquered Sun was once the Ebon Dragon's Fetich, back when he was the Dragon's Shadow. As his most powerful Soul and yet his antithesis, the Proto-Sol Invictus crushed any dark spirits produced by his Primordial Oversoul (perhaps driven by an intimacy of hatred instead of the usual 3rd Circles' intimacy of loyalty). To impose the ultimate virtue upon Creation, he ripped out his own heart, imposing Fetich death upon himself, and had it converted into a god without peer. If the first Gods were made out of the Primordial's component souls, it would also explain the similarity between Gods and Devas/Demons. In any case, he cast out his own grand heart in order to separate his darkness from his light, claiming it would serve as a testament to Theion's own glory, and set it to protect Creation from external threats while the newly born Ebon Dragon's darkness deepened and took shape.
- Jossed in Glories Most High: Deus Sol Invictus is created from purified Ligier's fire and one of Autochton's contraptions.
- The shinma don't work like that. They define something by being its opposite, like Nirguna who defines existence by not existing. So a shinma of 'things can cease to exist'(which is what a 'Shinma of Annihilation' would be) would define ceasing to exist by being impossible to make cease to exist. Oblivion may be an aspect of said Shinma, just as Nishkriya's aspects are weapons, but it can't be a shinma of annihilation.
- Well, do we know that Oblivion can be made to cease to exist? If Oblivion itself can never be destroyed, it fits the way a shinma of "things can be destroyed" would work perfectly well.
- Ink Monkeys has some information on Mardukth, Who Holds In Thrall. It presents the first King of the Primordials (before Theion) as one who drew the world to him, calling existence into being with him. The title isn't elaborated on, but it is surely no coincidence that it is shared with one of the Neverborn. Possibly the first Primordial to be killed, perhaps He Who Holds In Thrall is the Primordial/Shinma (who may or may not be related) that forged the first piece of the Underworld with his passing; but as he died, he asked one last time "Who am I?" and that dark new world provided him with an answer in the form of Oblivion: "Nothing."
- Well, do we know that Oblivion can be made to cease to exist? If Oblivion itself can never be destroyed, it fits the way a shinma of "things can be destroyed" would work perfectly well.
If something isn't prefixed with "inference point", then it's taken from canon as I recall it.
Why is Autochthon dying? He needs the Wyld.
Why are the Neverborn permadead? Because they can't get to the Wyld.
Why are the Yozis defeated? Because they were forced into binding oaths never to unweave their defeat with the Wyld.
Raksha can change their narrative reality with the Wyld.
Raksha can unweave their death with the Wyld.
Raksha require the Wyld to live.
Inference Point: Primordials function like Raksha with respect to the Wyld. It is not inimical to them, just as it is not inimical to the Raksha.
The Primordials once created in a place known as Zen-Mu, but despaired.
They despaired because, though it ever grew and continued, it exhausted its capability for novelty.
After they despaired, they tried to find something called the shining answer, which would be something more powerful than despair.
Later, possibly in this quest, possibly after having abandoned it temporarily, the Primordials built Yu-Shan, and thence creation.
Yu-Shan is a place, but Creation resembles nothing so much as a jouten without a fetich.
Creation was created for the sake of Yu-Shan.
The primordials made Yu-Shan for the sake of the Games of Divinity.
Inference Point: Creation was created for the sake of the Games of Divinity.
When Yu-Shan was made, it affected the Shinma, and redefined the world.
Primordials are immaterial. Devas are immaterial. Gods are immaterial.
Raksha are not immaterial. Raksha and Primordials are related. Raksha and Primordials have similar properties.
Primordials have charms allowing them to act as both material and immaterial at once.
Raksha were not in Yu-Shan when it was formed.
Inference Point: Conservation of complexity. Primordials were material. Devas were material. Gods were material. Raksha were material.
Inference Point: The Shinma pulled into Yu-Shan created and defined the concepts of Material/Immaterial by their absence.
Inference Point: In spiritual realms, the local Shinma are such that, as with the old Wyld, that distinction does not exist. [Canon veracit.]
The Shining Answer is located at the furthest point from the Shinma.
Every moment of the world exists within the Shinma Advaita Iraivan.
Things in Elsewhere do not degrade with the passage of time, and can be called from any reference frame, to any location.
Gates of Auspicious Passage allowed instant travel from and to anywhere in Creation.
Elsewhere is not being consumed by the Wyld.
Inference Point: Elsewhere is causally disconnected from Creation/Wyld.
Inference Point: It lacks the Shinmaic properties necessary to allow the Wyld to transform things.
Inference Point: It is in a part of Advaita Iraivan without Time and Space beyond what users impose on it.
Yu-Shan and other "immaterial realms" are in pockets of Elsewhere.
Save for Autochthonia, these pockets can receive resources from creation.
Autochthon is starving. Autchton receives prayer.
Malfeas isn't starving. Malfeas receives prayer.
Yozis can receive prayer at any time of the year (See: Akuma).
Malfeas is connected to Cecylene. Cecylene connects to creation for five days every year.
Creation connects to the Wyld.
Autochthonia does not connect to the Wyld.
Inference Point: Primordials need Wyld Essence to survive.
The Primordials sealed Yu-Shan from the Wyld.
Autochthon sealed himself from everything.
Inference Point: The primordials could have sealed creation from the Wyld.
Inference Point: They didn't because creation can transmit essence to Yu-Shan.
Inference Point: Including Wyld Essense.
The Games of Divinity are addicting.
The Wyld is addicting.
The Wyld has no negative effects on primordials.
The Wyld can have severe negative effects on gods (See: Xaos).
The Games of Divinity are something that the Unconquered Sun, who is Perfect, can fail at without compromising his potential by surpressing his Virtues.
The Wyld can realize infinite potential.
Within the set of infinite potential outcomes is an outcome where perfection fails.
Inference Point: The Games of Divinity require the Wyld to function.
Inference Point: The Celestial Incarna are Wyld tainted and Wyld addicted.
Inference Point: The purpose of the Games of Divinity may be completely off-the-books.
The Games of Divinity are not played on boards: they have controls.
Jouten can move in the Wyld.
The shining answer was said to be impossibly distant.
At no point was it ever said that the primordials stopped searching.
It was only said that they were weary of constant war with the unshaped.
Inference Point: Yu-Shan and Creation exist as a solution to that weariness.
Inference Point: The Gods were weapons designed to emulate a Primordials Devas as Creations was an emulation of a Jouten.
Inference Point: The Gods were made far stronger than Devas because the Jouten was stillborn by design. It lacked agency. It lacked identity. Unlike the primordials it could not assert itself against chaos as a natural process.
Inference Point: The Games of Divinity are a way of moving Creation through the Wyld.
Even Ignis Divine has but one soul. Some primordials had hundreds.
Inference Point: The Gods have no concept of this. It is likely that they cannot understand why the search for the Shining Answer is necessary. It is possible that they cannot understand what the Shining Answer even is.
Luna has consumed and internalised every alternative version of herself.
Luna is defined as the impossible made real.
Inference Point: Luna alone may be able to understand.
The Games of Divinity inspire supreme joy in the player.
The Primordials were suffering from despair.
Inference Point: The Games of Divinity were designed that the player "in the lead" (the player controlling the course of Creation) would not be suceptible to despair preventing them from guiding the universe towards The Shining Answer.
Creation and Yu-Shan are linked via Elswhere.
Inference Point: Creation moves, Yu-shan does not.
Inference Point: Creation does not move away from Yu-Shan (elsewhere is infinitely close to and far from all points). Creation moves itself closer to the Shining Answer. When it arrives, the primordial need only take a single step.
Gaia has not played a single turn in the Games since the victory of the Gods over the primordials.
Inference Point: The Gods won't let her.
After the conclusion of the Primordial War, and the defeat of her brothers and sisters, Gaia left Creation.
She took with her the comet Gnosis, which had been in Creation since the creation of Creation.
Inference Point: Gnosis is a device like the Daystar or the Silver Chair.
Inference Point: Gnosis did not need to be moved when the primordials reigned in Yu-Shan because Creation outmoded it.
Inference Point: This is no longer true. The Gods are not capable of using the Go D for their purpose.
Inference Point: Gaia left for this reason, and now uses Gnosis for the same.
Wrong.
Consider that the Alchemicals were made as the prototypes of the Celestial Exalted. Also consider that Nox was imprisoned well after the prototypes were made, and that the Heralds were not secret before that.
Conclusion: Autochthon knew ahead of time that the Nocturnals would be hidden. Since the Heralds could not easily fulfill their function if no one knew about them, he would not have built that feature into the Adamant Caste unless he knew that Nox would be forced to hide himself from Fate.
Of course, the easiest way for Autochthon to know that would be if he had planned to have Nox imprisoned in the Loom.