Sandbox / Jerkass Has A Wick Check

Jerkass Has a Point is pretty well-established with its rules on its page. The trope is is defined as a Jerkass character who makes a valid argument. And the main page of it defines it as being In-Universe Examples Only. However, it seems to often fail that latter criteria, with a lot of examples coming across as an audience reaction with no bearing on whether or not other characters agree with the jerkass character. This wick check will show how much of it meets that criteria.

Wicks to be checked 10/104 out of 10514

Jerkass character make their argument, with other characters acknowledging it 2/ 104

1. Characters.Refractions In The Beginning: Even if he's such a bastard, Dr. Phillips has to agree with him when Dr. Khai face her with the dilemma of keeping Al on Earth and living alone without his own species or sending him to Arras Chanka.
2. ComicBook.The Punisher Welcome Back Frank:
   • Mr. Payback showed up at a corporate room, accused the people in there of several corporate crimes, and killed them. One guy was complaining later about those horrible things he said... but the CEO corrected him: he was right, they DID commit those crimes, and managed to conceal them.
   • Interestingly, the Punisher himself is fully aware of this, and brings it up when he confronts Payback. The Punisher tells him he's killed four innocent people, one of them being a cleaning lady who died when one of Payback's bullets went through a wall and hit her. Not only does this show Frank's contempt for vigilantes who don't properly plan ahead to prevent innocent people from getting killed, but it also shows that Frank had no problem whatsoever with Payback killing corrupt corporate execs.
3. Film.Top Gun: Iceman's criticisms of Maverick's flying habits (particularly those involving wingmen) are repeatedly shown to be accurate, to the point where most of Maverick's character growth involves them finally sinking in.
4. Recap.Big City Greens S 2 E 13: While both Bill and Cricket do acknowledge that Cricket was being a "turd" about this, Cricket isn't wrong that, regardless of whether or not he likes zucchinis, anyone would be tired of eating it if they did it for six days straight. Bill acknowledges that Cricket did more than enough and lets Cricket go from his punishment.
5. Recap.Infinity Train Blossoming Trail The Fog Car Pt 7: When Amelia states that the Apex are assholes who have little to no empathy, Kenny states that the Apex being in the Fog Car wouldn't have happened if she didn't bring it up.
6. Recap.Star Trek Deep Space Nine S 06 E 01 A Time To Stand: After Kira feels Quark's only interested in profit, the Ferengi pointedly compares the current Dominion Occupation to the horrors all three of them lived through during the Bajoran Occupation. He admits things are bad...but, they could also be a lot worse too. Kira can muster no real counterargument, while Odo very grudgingly agrees with Quark's assessment.
7. Theatre.A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum: Miles Gloriosus is not exactly a great guy, but the only reason he's bothering the protagonists at all is because they're attempting to take the bride he paid for away from him. Pseudolus even points out that they legally have no standing to take Philia away from Miles, meaning they'll have to think of something else.
8. WebAnimation.Jo Cat: Downplayed. While JoCrap invoking Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies on his players in the Crap Guide to Dungeon Master video was uncalled for, many of the players weren't listening to him, weren't picking up on his story-beats (or even deliberately ignored them), or were trying to get him to allow them to powergame, so at least some of his anger is justified. JoCat admits as much to JoCrap that he may have a point about being angry, but then wonders if JoCrap has ever thought about the game that the players want to play instead of trying to railroad them.
9. Series.Mozart In The Jungle: What starts Thomas and Rodrigo's feud (which mostly exists only in Thomas's mind) is the latter calling Thomas out on a screw-up in his farewell performance. Thomas calls him out publicly and the two lock horns. Later, Thomas goes over the performance then realizes Rodrigo was right.
10. Monk.Tropes F To J: Monk is devastated when Stottlemeyer keeps him from being reinstated in "Mr. Monk Goes to the Carnival". While Monk feels betrayed and Sharona calls him a backstabber, Stottlemeyer is right to say that Monk is in no condition to be a sworn police officer, since his condition could inadvertently become a liability to himself and other officers. Monk even acknowledges and understands Stottlemeyer's judgment call in a later episode. Reads as a audience reaction example, but otherwise it fits with character acknowledging the Jerkass's point
11. Literature.Misery: Annie accuses Paul of this, when he first attempts to revive Misery by simply rewriting the end of the last book so that she never died.^note Paul is less-than-pleased with himself when he realizes that Annie is right, he did cheat in his first attempt to bring Misery back from the dead She brings up an example of her favorite childhood serial Rocket Man. In one episode, the Rocket Man was locked into his car, which then fell off a cliff and exploded. The next episode showed the Rocket Man jumping out of his car in the last minute, which made Annie extremely angry, because "This isn't what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia? They just cheated us! This isn't fair! He didn't get out of the cockadoodie car!" Listed under Cliffhanger Copout
12. Characters.Shinrai Broken Beyond Despair: While it's poor form to tell a scary story that passive-aggressively accuses his girlfriend of being a Clingy Jealous Girl, he's actually not wrong about Momoko. Runa actually agrees with him.
13. Characters.Power Rangers SPD: He may not have been nice about it but Sky wasn't wrong in "Confronted" that Jack was abusing his position as a Red Ranger a sentiment that everyone else on the team shared including Z who was Jack's oldest friend.

Entries that read like audience reactions 8/ 104

1. Characters.High And Low: Cobra acts as a strict leader to his friends, and sometimes comes off as harsh.
   • When the Sannoh's are talking about avenging Noboru, Cobra said that Noboru didn't die, so there is no need to do so. HE also added that if they do avenge him the Yakuza will targeted other members of Sannoh.
   • He roughs up Dan so bad after his incident with Lala causing the White Rascals to destroy their diner. To be fair, he has every right to be pissed.
2. Characters.Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Heliopolis: She blames Kira for her father's death, believing he held back in the fight where it happened because he was fighting against other Coordinators. Kira was in fact not going all out, though not for the reasons Flay believes.
3. Characters.Succession Kendall Roy: Deconstructed. He often manages to accurately pin-point the faults of others, such as his dad's abuse, Roman's phony fratbro persona, Shiv's hypocritical behavior, and Greg's parasitic relationship to the family. However, he's often needlessly cruel and vindictive when he verbalizes those faults, ensuring they'll never take his observations to heart.
4. Characters.The Legend Of Zelda The Wind Waker: While it is rude to be refusing mail from the postman, considering it's coming from one of the Moblins who held his daughter captive, who she also believes she's fallen in love with, he's well within his sensibilities for wanting to keep the two from contacting each other.
5. Characters.Ultra Series Ultraman Belial: In the War against Alien Empera, Belial was shown to be merciless and ruthless against his opponents, refusing to spare a single one even when they surrendered, but he was not wrong in pointing out that they were invaders attacking their home and given that many Ultras died in the War his excessive violence in fighting isn't entirely unfounded. Even Ken, after briefly berates him for executing the surrendering enemy, didn't provide further counterarguments when Belial accuses him of naivety.
6. Fanfic.After: While Hardin’s decision to make Tessa tell Noah that she was cheating may have seemed cruel, he did have a point in that Noah needed to know what was going on.
7. Fanfic.Switch AU: While Aelita is only doing it out of jealousy, she's very in the right for calling Ulrich and Odd out on losing Jeremie to Emily; Xana could very well have been possessing or possessed her while Jeremie was away from the group and even putting that aside, Jeremie has no idea how to operate on Earth and thus could easily have been manipulated into doing something dangerous, illegal or that made him uncomfortable.
8. Film.Con Air:
   • When the plane's about to crash, Malloy points out that civilian casualties could be enormous, which could've been avoided had they shot the plane down in the desert, and considering the plane crashes right in the middle of the Las Vegas strip... yeah, a lot of people would definitely be dead.
   • Larkin sarcastically acknowledged that letting the plane crash land made a mess.
9. GoneWithTheWind.Gone With The Wind Tropes I To L: And a lot of them do in this book:
   • Scarlett to Sueellen about having to root out the cotton because they need the money and there's no one else to do it. And part of the reason why Scarlett steals away Frank is because she correctly deduces that Suellen wouldn't let Frank lend the money to save Tara, wanting to be a Trophy Wife.
   • Rhett's This Is Reality take on how the Civil War will go, as well as chewing out Scarlett late in the book for neglecting Wade and Ella.
   • India's accusations of Scarlett coveting Ashley are very true. She still is bitchy to make them in public, even if Melanie's not around to defend Scarlett.
   • Scarlett realizes that Ashley has always let her down, from the very beginning when he kept coming to see her even though he was engaged to Melanie. This is behavior that would be considered incredibly caddish even today, even moreso back in those days when the rules regarding courtship were much stricter.
   • Despite her usual self-centeredness, Scarlett's absolutely right about her objections to the Ku Klux Klan, stating that it will bring the local military down on them even harder, resulting in people being jailed or hanged, or their property seized.
   • Scarlett, period. Her bitchiness makes it hard to see that she's actually right or has a very valid point about most of the things she says or does
10. Literature.Fire And Blood: Gyldayn emphasizes that Queen Alyssa's opposition to Jaehaerys and Alysanna's marriage and attempts to seperate them came purely out of concern for their safety and reasonable fears it would spark another war with the Faith (as the previous marriage between her children brought about). As they were both still very young, untested in ruling, and former members of the Faith Militant were still alive and could take up arms again, it was a completely fair concern. Gyldayn readily admits the same cannot be said for her husband, however...
    • Alicent Hightower was at the time trying to keep her hold on power and her son on a throne she'd encouraged him to usurp, but she had a point when she dismissed Aegon II's advisors insisting his only hope of surviving having essentially lost the Dance of Dragons was to abdicate and beg his nephew (next in the line of succession) to let him join the Night's Watch; Alicent noted the boy was hardly likely to show mercy to the man who'd fed the boy's beloved mother to a dragon and forced him to watch.
    • Aegon III expelling his former regents from King's Landing the moment he was old enough to rule as King in his own right and cancelling the plans they'd made for him was extremely rude and alienated a fair number of the nobles who'd been ruling the country for him, but after all the crap Aegon went through in his childhood with various nobles (particularly Unwin Peake) trying to exploit him and his family (up to and including trying to murder Aegon, his wife and sister-in-law, and install his kid brother Viserys as a Puppet King) for their own ambitions, it's hardly surprising he's come to the conclusion the nobility are by and large self-serving bastards he wants nothing to do with.
11. Recap.Only Fools And Horses S 1 E 04 The Second Time Around: That being said, Pauline makes it clear that coming to live with the Trotters does not mean she is to become a "skivvy" and do all the cooking and cleaning for Rodney and Grandad as well as for Del.
12. Recap.The Flash 2014 S 1 E 11 The Sound And The Fury: Hartley is right that Cisco's outfit is out of place in a professional workplace, but he still could be more polite about it.
13. Series.Dahmer Monster The Jeffrey Dahmer Story:
    • As flawed as Jeffrey’s mom is, she’s not wrong when she says that it is not okay for Jeff to be cutting up dead animals as this is what would kickstart his obsession with killing people.
    • While blaming Joyce for how Jeff turned out was hardly fair Lionel wasn’t wrong when he pointed out that the ludicrous amount of drugs she took while pregnant with Jeff was never going to do wonders for their child’s development!
14. Series.The Stand: Stu's frustration with the military and government doctors makes sense, given how they callously push the residents of Arnette, Texas, and himself around, and how they ultimately were responsible for the whole thing. Still, when you put that in perspective to the existential threat to humanity that the government scientists were trying to solve, it's hard to see his refusal to go along with their testing as anything other than petty obstinance.
15. VideoGame.YIIKA Post Modern RPG: While Alex's remark to Rory about nobody caring about his dead sister is rather callous, keep in mind that Rory had effectively caused him and the other party members to go on a wild goose chase and nearly got them killed because he had lied to them about his sister and trying to make her suicide about himself.
16. WesternAnimation.Captain Underpants The First Epic Movie: Even though his control over the school is pretty tyrannical, Mr. Krupp makes a fair point of noting that George and Harold's parents are doing jack to stop their children from wreaking havoc on the school.
17. YMMV.Dog: Gnezdilov teases Lena in "Painted in Oil" about having double surname "Maximova-Leonidova" for both ex and husband (since it turns out that she still has surname "Maximova", even after the divorce). It was rude, and he was punched by both Max and Lyosha. But there is some truth in it, since Lena is shown to be still loving Max (and it is clearly visible). Listed as a YMMV example despite it not being YMMV
18. YMMV.Silversun: Strega. While his actions after being picked up by Star Runner were manipulative, reckless and completely outside standard operating protocol at best, and he may or may not have been responsible for the situation in the first place, it doesn't change the fact that if he had not defied Commander Darius and sabotaged his own cryo pod, then flown the Infinity back through the wormhole, their chances of rescue would have been impossibly low, meaning he saved the lives of everyone aboard. Listed as a YMMV example despite it not being YMMV
19. WesternAnimation.The Barbie Diaries: Dawn and Regen may be snobby bullies who are a part of Raquelle's Girl Posse, but they're right to be angry that Barbie befriended them simply to do a defamatory news story about them. Regen is especially right to argue that Barbie's actions aren't any different from what "the populars" do.
    Regen: So...you wanted to show the world how terrible populars are for pretending to be friends with people when all they really wanna do is gather dirt. Why does that sound familiar?
20. RootingForTheEmpire.Western Animation: Fans of The Light in Young Justice (2010) tend to be drawn to the group because unlike most anti-Justice League villain teams they're driven by altruistic motives on their face. Their primary goal is the uniting and strengthening of Earth so that it can protect itself from alien threats. While their methods are monstrous, the series does not back away from the premise that Earth is in constant peril and that the galaxy is filled to brim with evil conquerors and tyrants that the beleaguered cosmic forces of good (Green Lanterns, New Genesis, etc.) are simply unable to deal with.
21. Recap.The Simpsons S 16 E 3 Sleeping With The Enemy: Bart gets a perfect score of 100 on a test and tries to cash the reward he's been promised in such an event, but Homer flat-out refuses to believe he got the grade legitimately despite failing to find any evidence of cheating, and even strangles him when his interrogation falls flat. While Bart did get a licit 100, it was only on a technicality: Mrs. Krabappel quizzed the class on state capitals and forgot to roll up the map, meaning that every student in the class got a perfect score, which she simply let stand.
22. Recap.Tangled The Series S 3 E 13 Race To The Spire: When waving goodbye to Rapunzel and Eugene, Calliope says that they goofed up and it wasn't her fault. Which, while tactless as usual, is true - even if Calliope's message was incomplete and said "keep this" instead of "keep this away," it was still pretty dumb to bring the key to the same place as the person seeking the key. "Keep this" doesn't even have to mean "keep this on you" - "keep this somewhere safe" would have been a valid interpretation.
23. Recap.Sonic Boom S 1 E 34 Just A Guy: Sonic's argument that Mike shouldn't have been allowed to join the heroes' fight against Eggman is seen as insensitive by the villagers. However, Sonic is absolutely in the right: Mike has no powers or fighting skills and his most useful action in not just this episode but the entire show is warning Sonic of a sneak attack by Eggman.
24. Recap.Gravity Falls S 2 E 12 A Tale Of Two Stans:
    • When Dipper apologizes for not trusting Stan in the previous episode, Stan admits that, all considered, he wouldn't believe himself either. This sounds valid enough, but the rest...
    • Being an actual genius, Ford has several moments such as the very beginning with telling off Stan with how much damage the portal could have done and is pretty much committing identity theft by using his name. It's also implied that one reason for his order to hide the journal is because after everything he's learned, Stan could be in danger if he stays by him long enough.
    • Stan of course likewise has a bit of a point when they meet again the second time in their adult lives: Ford just calls him out of the blue, barely explains anything and tries to send him off after having not seen him for years on end. You can't blame Stan for getting angry at this abruptness. Ford's ramblings and continued bitterness certainly didn't help his case.
    • At the end of the episode, Ford gives Stan until the end of the summer, then he's kicking him out of the Mystery Shack. While this will leave Stan homeless and jobless, Ford has every right to want his house and identity back. Expecting him to sleep in the basement and on couches indefinitely in his own home is absurd and he does give Stan time to make other arrangements.
25. Recap.Columbo S 03 E 02: Adrian's brother may have been a jerk, but he's right about Adrian's poor business sense.
26. Film.Uptown Girls: Ingrid was in the wrong for expecting Molly to pay half while sleeping in the living and selling most of her possessions. But Molly needs to downsize to pay for basic needs and should focus on getting a job.
27. Film.Nocturnal Animals: Susan's mother is built up as a cold-hearted type who refuses to "understand" people who don't fit her standard (such as Cooper, for being gay). When we finally meet her... as cruel as her words of warning to Susan about marrying Edward sound, we already more-or-less know how it's turned out. And as the flashbacks progress, it's eerie just how point-for-point accurate those warnings actually prove to be.
28. Fanfic.The Assassination Of Twilight Sparkle: While Duke Crosseye makes unflattering racist comments about Tirek, he is also spot on in that Tirek is a warlord and backstabber, he got what he deserved at the hooves of the heroes, and trusting him to help them against Equestria would be folly.
29. Fanfic.Castle One Piece: He tried to get Pudding to drop the marriage, insults him, and calls his family "demented" and "dysfunctional", though he was right about his family. This is before he learns of Pudding's true nature. Listed under Kick the Dog
30. Characters.Your Turn To Die Others: She has a very good reason to be suspicious of random people approaching her boat; as far as she knows, her only ally is dead and she's all alone with what might be the only way off the island.
31. Characters.Toradora: Yes, she may not care about other people's feelings, but when you get past her tactless, unpleasant self, you realize that her words are much more down-to-earth and sensible than she is given credit for.
32. Characters.The Last Kingdom Uhtred: Although he clearly relishes getting to rub salt in Alfred's wounds after the fall of Winchester to Guthrum in Season 1, Uhtred is correct when he points out Alfred seriously screwed up letting Guthrum steal a march on him, and when Alfred tries to browbeat Uhtred into showing some respect, accurately retorts that Alfred is a king without a kingdom and has no authority to throw his weight around.
33. Characters.Mobile Suit Victory Gundam
    • While his own tactical suggestions are typically asinine, when Hangelg and Stern, purely on instinct, intend to launch a full-scale assault on Angel Halo without waiting for reinforcements, he (rightly) calls it out as crass and irresponsible.
    • Well, this was before she went nuts. In the fifth episode, when she's the one who says it's not right to make Uso continue fighting for the League Militaire, she does indeed have a point. Because apparently everyone is willing to just settle on Uso, a 13 year old kid they just met one day, who happens to be the only other pilot they have skilled enough to handle a Gundam besides Marbet. So this veers more into Only Sane Man territory or The Complainer Is Always Wrong depending on how you view it, as it calls into question how much Katejina actually worried about Uso at that point, or how desperate the League really was at the time. At the very least, no one tells Katejina her opinion is wrong.
34. Characters.Justified Other Characters: Her criticism of Raylan is often valid. For example, she tells Raylan that many of his problems are of his own making in "Kill the Messenger".
    Allison: I can tell you’re a man who would run into a burning building without batting the eye. Thing is, I think you’re the one setting the fire.

ZCE/Insufficient Context 1/ 104

1. Manga.Daitai Konnande: Kokage resents Honori for not noticing they were classmates who sit beside each other.
2. Recap.The X Files S 07 E 01 The Sixth Extinction: Kritschgau makes a number of good points, and receives only reluctant assistance from Skinner when he points them out and that Mulder specifically needed his expertise. Is Kritschgau a jerkass?
3. Recap.Mimpi Metropolitan E 45: Juna brings up something Akbar has deliberately ignored from the start: Alexi's acting is bad.
4. Recap.All In The Family S 2 E 4 Edith Writes A Song: Hoarce trying to tell Mike, in not so many words, that he too never truly knew what it was like to grow up in the slums and that the book-learning he has is all bull.
5. Film.Curly Sue: All in fairness Walker is right in that it is dangerous for Grey to invite homeless people she doesn't even know into her home.

Unsorted/Murky 1/ 104

1. Film.Paddington 2014: Mr. Brown isn't exactly wrong to be concerned about having a rather uncivilized and eccentric bear move into his house (or protective of his family in general); he just takes it a bit too far. Paddington himself admits that he probably didn't make the best first impression when he first arrived. Mr. Brown also points out that it's hard to find who the Explorer is if they don't know what his name in English is. Does Paddington admit Mr. Brown is right?
2. Playing With.Jerkass: He has a legitimate reason to be a jerkass. Listed under the "Justified" section
3. Recap.Dr Crafty Season 2 Month 5 Fighting Month: After Pepper's candy is stolen, Jedah drops by and serenades Pepper with an advertisement of his services. When she asks if he can get her candy back, Jedah declines. He's clearly just doing so to revel in Pepper's disappointment, but he is just a lawyer—he legally can't interfere with the theft. Pepper offers nothing but a resigned sigh as Jedah leaves.
4. TearJerker.Finding Dory: Even worse is that shortly after she apologizes profusely and is horrified, she immediately forgets, only to see Marlin consoling Nemo. Marlin (albeit justified, but still saddening regardless) blames her for nearly getting Nemo killed when they spent the entirety of the last movie trying to find and save, and she can only sit there and apologize for something presumably horrible and she can't even remember what she did, just that it hurt Nemo. To have someone mad and upset at you for something you can't even remember doing must be devastating.
5. Characters.TNO Iberian Union: The reactionary movement is opposed to regional autonomy for the minorities because it would create unrest and decentralization that motivated the military coup that kickstarted the Spanish Civil War. Even Fernández-Miranda, the most reformist candidate in the 1970 elections, finds the concern valid and has to work around that.