Tv Tropes has decided on a new definition for Broken Base. This page was turned into a Sandbox because the examples did not meet the new definition. However if one of you think that an example here meets the criteria we have set below, go to the cleanup thread here
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How to decide if an example is an valid Broken Base entry.
1. A sustained conflict: short-term conflicts that are quickly forgotten don't count.
2. Corollary: Conflicts about upcoming works based on previews, trailers, and speculation are short-term by definition and should be cut on sight.
3. An exceptionally vicious conflict: a simple disagreement where the various factions have little problem co-existing doesn't count.
4. Two or more large, vocal, and entrenched factions within the fanbase: a tiny Vocal Minority that won't shut up about their pet peeve but is vastly outnumbered by more reasonable fans doesn't count. Nor does a silent majority that likes what they like (or hates what they hate) but doesn't make a big deal about it.
5. Corollary: the fanbase must itself be large enough to support two or more large and entrenched factions. This is more likely to be the case with broad fandoms (e.g. "Star Wars fans" or "anime fans") as opposed to narrow ones (fans of one particular work such as a single film or video game with no sequels, adaptations, or spinoffs).
6. Little to no middle ground: Cases in which the vast majority of the fandom just plain doesn't care too much about the disagreements of a few fringe elements don't count.
The original page is below:
Since Dragon Ball Super is the official sequel to Dragon Ball Z, displacing Dragon Ball GT which has its own well known Broken Base, Super naturally has a lot of mixed reactions.
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In General
- The animation. The base is divided between those who think it looks presentable and has gotten better as the show moved forward, especially in the Champa and Future Trunks Saga, and those who think it looks hideous and compare every episode to Episode 5.
- There is a group of fans who prefer the Super manga over the anime, citing its better pacing, artwork, characterizations, and fights. Other dislike the manga for its tracing of the original Dragon Ball manga, characterizations, rushed pacing, and storytelling elements. Chapter 13 in particularly is a huge point of contention among the fandom since the manga greatly differs from the anime in the Goku vs. Hit fight. Chapter 19 was also a divisive point, given the different characterization of Goku Black.
- The pacing, is it moving too fast or too slow? Most agree that the pacing was slow in the Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F' Sagas since most have seen those stories and wanted to move into new material, while others enjoyed the retellings since it fleshed out certain aspects that were glossed over in the movies. The Champa Saga has been praised for its better pacing and fast fights, while some have complained that things are moving too fast, especially compared to Dragon Ball Z.
- What is 'canon'. One group insists that only the story arcs written by Toriyama are canon and anything made by Toei is just Filler. Another group says that only the anime of Super is canon, while the Super manga is just advisement. Another smaller group claims that nothing in Super is canon and the story ended with the original manga. And that isn't even getting on Super's connections or lack of connections with GT.
- Using the Super manga fill in plot points in the anime. Fans have taking information from the manga and applied it to the anime like: the Supreme Kai dying to Dabura, which killed Beerus, leading Goku Black to Future Trunks' timeline. Zamasu being triggered by watching Godtube if Goku never went to U10 in the 'original' timeline. Goku still having Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan having a 90% power drop when used too many times. This, naturally, annoyed many fans since the manga is its own continuity and what happened in the manga doesn't apply to the anime. This has erupted into many heated discussions on message boards.
- Battle of Gods and Resurrection ‘F’'' being adapted into story arcs instead of the show just picking up after them. Some feel getting more attention and screen time will help flesh them out more, others feel it's a waste of time.
- The general tone of the series is contended by fans who grew up with Dragon Ball Z, as they feel Super is too light-hearted. Fans who either read the manga or understand Toriyama's roots in gag-oriented manga are fine with the lighter tone of Super. Much of this has died down with the Future Trunks Saga, which is the darkest story arc in Super with the most depressing ending in the franchise.
- The overall quality of the retellings. The more vocal parts of the hardcore fan base hate them; calling them a waste of time with terrible animation, padding, it brings the overall quality of the show down, and one should stick with the movies. The more casual fan base likes the retellings even with its poorer animation, citing the Beerus vs. Super Saiyan God Goku fight as one of the best in the show and liked the changes made for Resurrection 'F', specifically Frieza's characterization. The retellings are a case of divisiveness. Not helped that Resurrection 'F' the movie in particular has a vocal hatedom.
- Is Super too much like fanfiction? After the retellings, the Champa Saga tells the events of a multiverse tournament run by the gods similar to the webcomic, Dragon Ball Multiverse. The Future Trunks Saga in turn tells what happens to Future Trunks after he beat the androids in his time, which has been a popular fanfic subject for decades. Some fans called the original story arcs in Super cliché and have been done before by fans. Others say that with a franchise as old as Dragon Ball, it's impossible to make stories that haven't been thought of or used in fanfics in some form, and it's the execution of the story that matters (the execution itself being another arguing point).
- Does Super focus too much on Goku and Vegeta to the point that it ignores other popular characters like Gohan, Piccolo, and all the human characters? Is Goku himself a Spotlight-Stealing Squad who gets too much Character Shilling? Next to the animation and Gohan's character development, this is a huge arguing point in the series.
- The length of the story arcs. Super's sagas are much shorter than the ones from Dragon Ball Z. As of this writing, the Future Trunks Saga is the longest story arc with 21 episodes. The debate come with fans arguing if Super having short arcs is a good thing. Many fans want the epic story arcs of Z that went on for 60 or more episodes. Others enjoy the shorter and fast pace storylines and say that Z dragged too much. A third group enjoy the shorter arcs overall, but also wished they could be longer since many parts could be fleshed out more, like Vegito and Merged Zamasu's fight, as well as showing the characters training.
- Power scaling is a giant debate topic in Super. You can find Flame Wars over how powerful Goku and Vegeta are in their base forms, how strong the U6 fighters are compared to everyone else in U7, how powerful Beerus is compared to anyone, and how powerful Goku Black and Zamasu are compared to the heroes. Discussing Future Trunks' power-ups specifically can get nasty. This gets more heated if you bring in the Super manga, which uses a different power scale than the anime: like Super Saiyan 2 Trunks being stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, Goku not absorbing godhood and instead used Super Saiyan God as its own form, Super Saiyan God in general, and many characters being Adaptational Wimps. The Universal Survival Saga made it even worse, where characters previously established to be much weaker like 17 and Gohan, being pushed to God tier simply through training and Time Skips. It has even reached the point where some threatened or have dropped the show because they didn't like the scaling.
- A rather minor one in comparison, but the subject of whether to name Goku and Vegeta's god forms Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan Blue have been known to crop up amongst fans even in This Very Wiki with minor Edit Wars constantly changing the naming scheme back and forth again. Most of the back and forward happened because while the show and manga calls the form Super Saiyan Blue, all other merchandises, even the ones under the Super label, still calls it Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. So Super Saiyan Blue and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are both the official names.
- And par for the course with Dragon Ball media, Viz's spellings (which are closer to the original Japanese spelling) vs. Funi's spellings. This is lessened in Super since most names and terms have been the same all around, but you still have posters changing Frieza to Freeza and vice versa, calling the Supreme Kais Kaioshins, and is it Bra or Bulla.
Goku's characterization
- Goku's characterization has become a major subject of debate with fans in several different ways:
- Probably the most prominent one is that some say he has undergone Flanderization, and has become more childish and fight obsessed than he was during Dragon Ball Z. Others argue he's always been that way, especially since Toriyama himself stated that his original vision of Goku was that he was kind of selfish, and that the original Dragon Ball Z anime did a bit of Adaptational Heroism on him, which means this is actually a Character Rerailment. However, some people concede this, but argue that they have gone way too far in that direction, far surpassing the original manga version of the character in this regard, and making him much less likable as a result.
- At the same time, some people find Super's Goku a little more heroic compared to the canon movies' version: In Battle of Gods, he fights Beerus mostly for the sake of a good battle and doesn't really fight for the sake of others until the end, while in Super he does so to protect the Earth, not to say he didn't enjoy fighting Beerus. In Resurrection 'F', he fights Frieza almost entirely for fun and tries to spare him so he can fight him again; in Super, Goku is disgusted by Frieza, finds no joy fighting him, and only spares him since he decides he isn't worth killing.
- There have also been debates about how Goku has become a Flat Character who gained no noticeable development, especially compared to Vegeta, Gohan, or even Krillin despite his short screen time. Most don't mind since a lot of Goku's development happened in Dragon Ball and the early parts of Dragon Ball Z, so they think he doesn't need a major change to his character. Other argued that Goku should be more mature and needs something drastic to happen to him so he can evolve further from a naive Manchild.
- Also of note on Goku, does he get too much focus on the show to the detriment of all other characters? Is he an Invincible Hero who always wins, even when he loses a battle like with Beerus, Hit, and Goku Black and Future Zamasu (twice)?
- Even in the Engish dub, which has changed/tweaked a few lines to try to even out Goku's personality a little bit, some people still complain and debate about if this was a good decision, since most fans of the sub, but don't mind watching the newer dubs, hate when the dubs intentionally change lines, so no one can win here apparently.
- To say that Goku has broken the base during the Universe Survival Saga is an Understatement. Even only several episodes in as of this writing, the level of broken-ness has zig-zagged and will probably continue to do so (some spoilers on notes). First Goku apparently being responsible for the tournament broke it in Episode 77 note , things died down a bit with Episode 80's reveal note , and has recently come back with a vengeance in Episode 81 note .
- And lastly, when it comes to Goku's characterization in Super, the Japanese fandom doesn't seem to have much issue with any of the above - notably it's the western fandom raising most of the heat.
Other Characters
- Gohan, you either like him being a nerd who works hard to support his family and having a life outside of fighting, or you think he's wasting his god-given talent by not training and depending on his dad too much to save the day. There is very little in-between. There is also Gohan's Badass Decay. The neverending cycle of Gohan's fans being mad that their character isn't the strongest unfused character and stops training again is a huge base breaking for those who think it makes sense for his character since he doesn't like to train or fight, and those who think he's
Ruined FOREVER. There is a third camp who don't mind Gohan not focusing on fighting anymore, but feel that he should havd at least maintained his training so he wouldn't get weaker again after what what happened in the Buu Saga when he slacked off for seven years. - Chi-Chi. Is she a good mother who does her best for her family even if she comes off as overbearing, or is she an overbearing harpy who 'ruined' Gohan by forcing him to study when he was younger instead of train? Then there's how Chi-Chi treats Goku, especially after they learned that she lied about spending all the money Mr. Satan gave them so Goku will work on the farm again. Others say that Chi-Chi does have a point that Goku should support his family and not mooch off of Mr. Satan.
- Fans either like that Vegeta has mellowed into a family man who cares for his wife and son, has a friendly relationship with Goku, and often finds himself in awkward situations as seeing the fruits of his Character Development from Dragon Ball Z, or they hate this characterization, seeing it as severe Badass Decay and is out-of-character. Some of the more vocal parts of the fandom wish that Vegeta remained evil or at least aloof like he was in the Cell/Buu Saga.
- Present Trunks and Goten have been criticized for remaining static characters who have shown no growth (character or physically) since the Buu Saga, though physically it's no surprise considering that they're Saiyans. note This has been reduced slightly thanks to Present Trunks getting some development in the Future Trunks Saga and Goten in the Hit episodes.
- You either love Beerus for being a powerful, spoiled god who can do whatever he wants since no one outside of Whis can control him because he's so far above the cast in strength, or you hate him for that exact reason. His Adaptational Villainy in the Battle of Gods Saga on top of him being a Karma Houdini didn't help matters. However, his return to his movie personality after the Battle of Gods Saga and wishing back U6's Earth so Champa can enjoy the same food as him, made Beerus seen in a better light by most of the fandom.
- Frost. He was presented to the audience as a Good Counterpart to Frieza, something fans have wanted for years. The revelation that he's just as evil as Frieza and is in the exact same line of work, except that he pretends to be a Nice Guy to fool everyone, has split the fanbase. Fans either love the twist that played with the audience's expectations and enjoy that Frost is basically a smarter Frieza who charms and manipulates others into being loyal to him, or a waste of a good character since Frost is just a poor copy of Frieza. This split even further with the manga adaption of Frost, who isn't a planet broker, just an impatient cheat. Some like this interpretation better, but still preferred that Frost was a good person, while others call it boring since why would Frost agree to fight for Champa if he got nothing out of it or why even bother to cheat instead of just losing?
- While Baby Pan is a fan favorite, there are some who think she's portrayed as being too powerful for her age. There's also Gohan spoiling her too much so she gets away with her playfully destructive behavior.
- Future Mai being introduced as a major character in the Future Trunks Saga. Some are happy to see an old favorite from the original Dragon Ball play a role in a major arc, citing Mai as the most interesting and level-headed person from the Pilaf gang. Others hate the idea, especially since it could tie into Mai being Trunks' girlfriend, a storyline that was dropped in the Battle of Gods adaptation in Super because their counterparts didn't interact much and Trunks had no need for a pretend girlfriend in this version, if nothing else. They also see Mai as a waste since they wanted to see other favorites return like Launch. There were originally debates about how old Future Mai is, which were cleared up by the Super manga, that revealed she and the Pilaf Gang also became young from using the Dragon Balls, just like their main timeline counterparts. They made the wish just before Piccolo was killed by the androids. However, as the saga progressed and Mai got more development, many felt she has been officially Rescued from the Scrappy Heap.
- When Toriyama announced that the villain for the Future Trunks Saga was someone called Goku Black, it divided the fanbase. Most liked the idea since an evil Goku, not just another Evil Counterpart, was something many fans wanted for years. Another part of the fandom hated the idea since an evil Goku is one of the oldest fanfic clichés within the Dragon Ball community and some argued that an evil Goku would just be a Perfect Cell, Majin Buu, or Beerus character, or it will be a retread of Majin, Baby, or Copy Vegeta. They also pointed out that Turles, the primary villain of Tree of Might, was already created as an evil version of Goku, or more specifically Kakarot. Others were upset that they weren't given an original villain and disliked that Goku was 'stealing' the villain role after taking all the limelight as the hero from other characters like Vegeta, Piccolo, and Gohan. This cooled down after the promotional art for the Future Trunks Saga was released and everyone saw Goku Black, considering him awesome and mysterious since he wears a Kai's earring, and that they weren't recycling the evil Saiyan that Goku was supposed to be approach that was the concept behind Turles and many fanfics. When Goku Black made his debut, he quickly became a fan favorite for his cold, ruthless demeanor, being Creepy Awesome, and being completely different to Goku. However, Goku Black slid back into this after the revelation that he is a version of Present Zamasu. Since Zamasu isn't viewed as highly as Goku Black and some think the twist was too predictable or confusing, this hurt his character for some.
- The Pilaf gang, especially in the Future Trunks Saga. You either love them for their humor and being classic Dragon Ball characters, or you hate them and see any scene with them as being a waste of space and ruining the tension of the show. There is surprisingly little middle ground on this, especially from bitter fans of other characters.
- Zamasu divided the fanbase with the increasing hints that he was Goku Black, as well as his Fantastic Racism towards humans. There is also some debate about if Future Zamasu being an immortal is a good thing. Some like the twist since Goku and the others have to face an enemy that they can't beat with raw strength. Others don't like it since they see it as cheating and going against the spirit of the series. A third group agrees that Zamasu cheated by gaining immortality, but since he's a villain, he isn't obligated to play fair. This also leads right into another debate about whether Zamasu is a good villain alongside Black. While Black runs on Evil Is Cool, Creepy Awesome, and has real respect for Goku, Zamasu is a self-righteous prick who holds a grudge against Goku for beating him in a sparring match. The Reveal that Future Zamasu is more the servant since it was Goku Black who recruited him, along with the little fact that Goku Black and Present Zamasu are the same person has also split the base. In other words, people are divided if Zamasu is a Love to Hate character, or just a hateable prick. Overall, however, it's generally agreed that Future Zamasu is the least likable Zamasu for spamming his immortality, his constant Motive Rants, and generally coming off as a Smug Snake who jumped off the slippery slope with glee instead of the slow fall into darkness that Present Zamasu experienced. In the Super manga, however, Future Zamasu is viewed more favorably, mostly because Manga Black is The Scrappy.
- Zamasu's final form is either pants wetting terrifying or Narm worthy. Some were also annoyed about how it came out of nowhere after the climactic defeat at the hands of Future Trunks, as well as denying Future Trunks the happy ending he had worked so hard for.
- Zen'o is either liked for being the Top God powerhouse that wants to have friends and be treated normal, or a spoiled brat who's almost certainly murdered more innocent people than every villain in the series combined, because he was once mildly upset about something. And as of the end of the Future Trunks arc ending, doing this twice. Though Zamasu already destroyed the multiverse, there's quite enough ambiguity to suggest that Zen'o's actions weren't only to Shoot the Dog. The Universe Survival Saga worsens the divide by magnitudes, since it opens showing Zen'o and his Future timeline equivalent having made a game of destroying planets (and having played it 202 times) and that all the losers of the Universe Survival tournament have their universes destroyed.
- On a similar note, the base is divided on whether Zen'o can be held accountable for the destruction of the universes and if he's no better than any of the villains. Quite a few felt Zen'o lost all redeeming qualities with his decision to destroy the losing universes, and that he has committed the most villainous act in the franchise with the highest body count to date. Then there are others who feel as a cosmic level entity, his sense of morality works different and can't really be expected to feel value towards the insignificant mortal lives being destroyed. Zen'o's eventual decision to drop this stake, if Bergamo won his fight with Goku, has eased the heat towards him a bit.
- Future Trunks became this in his saga mostly by fans who despised how powerful he became in such a short amount of time (e.g. his Super Saiyan Rage form) and his ability to seemingly learn techniques more quickly than even Goku, like him learning the Evil Containment Wave by watching a video and him being able to unconsciously create a Spirit Bomb. Others actually like these things about Trunks since it gave more time to other characters besides Goku and Vegeta and Trunks deserved it after all the crap he's been through.
- Arale ended up becoming one after her A Day in the Limelight episode, in part due to the general cult status of Dr. Slump in America. Some Dragon Ball fans (mainly those who were unfamiliar with Dr. Slump) saw Arale as an overpowered, out-of place comedy character in a series otherwise known for serious action-given plots, particularly since her appearance came off of the heels of the Future Trunks arc. Others, however, saw Arale as a welcome guest character who helped give the show a moment to catch its breath after the incredibly dark story arc that had just wrapped up.
Battle of Gods Saga
- The overall Darker and Edgier tone for the Battle of Gods Saga in comparison to the movie. Some like that Beerus is shown as a more dangerous villain with all his evil and petty deeds shown on-screen. Others hate that Beerus' dorky moments were toned down or omitted and miss the general light-hearted, comedy feel of the movie. There's also his expanded backstory, which either gives Beerus some more interesting depth, or just more unnecessary filler that drags the same plot out.
- Goku and Beerus' fight in Super compared to the movie. While some liked how the fight was lengthened and had added variety that made it more interesting, as well as Goku faring better against Beerus, others felt the fight length in the movie was fine, and dragging it out made it tedious and less appealing. This is especially the case with the part where Goku and Beerus produce dragon auras, which caused a lot of raised eyebrows. A third group believed that the fight dragged on at points, but still preferred it over the movie, which they felt was too short and Super Saiyan God didn't last long enough to be meaningful.
Resurrection 'F' Saga
- Piccolo's death in the Resurrection 'F' Saga. Some loved it since it was an unpredictable twist for those who saw the movie. Others hated it since they saw it as unnecessary, especially since the Super manga had already spoiled that he would be alive for the next arc.
- Ginyu's unceremonious death. Some saw this as a giant waste of a beloved character that made his grand return pointless since the plot didn't need him there to begin with. Other fans saw Ginyu's return as fanservice and his death giving a proper conclusion to his story. Also, Ginyu couldn't do much since he's way below Goku and Vegeta and it is within Vegeta's character to take out anyone who may be a threat, especially someone who can change bodies on a whim. Vegeta completing his Ginyu kill collection is just an added bonus.
Champa Saga
- Gohan not being part of the tournament really ticked his fandom off since they wanted Gohan to redeem himself for his poor performance in the Resurrection 'F' Saga. Others were fine with this since they didn't want a third Saiyan on a team of five and thought that Buu and Piccolo deserved the slot more.
- Goku and Vegeta carrying the U7 team for almost the entire tournament since Buu fell asleep during testing and Vegeta made Piccolo forfeit so he could fight Frost. This had fans raging that the entire tournament was a waste since it was the 'Goku and Vegeta show' with Piccolo's fight being utterly meaningless and Buu doing nothing despite being on the poster. Another part of the fandom, while annoyed by the lack of other fighters, didn't mind since they enjoyed the fights that were presented.
- Piccolo forfeiting after Frost is caught cheating by Vegeta since he wanted to handle Frost himself. This set the forums on fire for weeks because Super went on a week break after this episode. Frost really being evil was bad enough, but the fact that Piccolo's entire fight was rendered meaningless despite his great showing really ticked off the fandom.
- Monaka being a weakling that Beerus only pretended to be strong to motive Goku and Vegeta. Some like this twist since it Subverted Toriyama's 'small and weak-looking equals powerful' standard. They also liked it since it showed that Beerus has come to care for Goku and Vegeta in his own way. Others absolutely despised the twist since it really made the tournament all about Goku and Vegeta and felt it made Monaka a wasted character.
- From the Super manga, Goku being able to transform into a Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan having a 90% energy drain if one transformed twice in a row. This has deeply shattered the fanbase since many fans hate Goku being able to transform into a Super Saiyan God since it goes against Toriyama's statement about Goku not needing the form anymore since he absorbed godhood. Others like this change since they didn't like that Goku absorbed godhood that put him so above all the other characters. More than anything, however, the 90% drop for Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was called stupid by almost everyone and this information gave Vegeta a giant Idiot Ball since he could have avoided losing so much power by just staying transformed after he beat Cabba.
- Magetta's English dub voice being done by text-to-speech software with a distortion effect added to it rather than a regular person. It seems you either hate it for going against the Japanese version (as many sub fans are saying it depletes any sympathy he had, despite the writers never giving him any), like/love it for going with his character design, or are indifferent because neither portrayal really makes you like the character any more or less than the other, though people who've seen the sub and like his portrayal there will argue with you that it's unfitting, since he speaks in disconnected gibberish in the English dub, as opposed to the fact that he was all only grunts and yells in the Japanese version.
Future Trunks Saga
In General
- The Stable Time Loop that created Goku Black. A small, but very vocal group hated this plot point, saying it made no sense for the time-travel used in Dragon Ball and they praised the Super manga for getting rid of it. The people who disagree says that the Stable Time Loop made perfect sense and other works of fiction that has time-travel uses it. They also think the manga relied too much on Contrived Coincidences to explain how Future Trunks traveled back just in time to stop Zamasu from killing his master, taking the Time Rings, and then using the Super Dragon Balls to take Goku's body.
- As a whole, the entire Future Trunks Saga. Many fans proclaim it as one of the best, if not the best, story arc in the entire Dragon Ball franchise with its abundance of Continuity Nods, Call Backs, complex villains, mystery driven plot, and the unexpected ending. Others hate the arc for its lack of use of the extended cast, the confusing nature of time travel and timelines, needless padding with the characters going back and forward through time, and the Esoteric Happy Ending. Another group liked the arc, until the last two episodes. Needless to say, you either love the Future Trunks Saga or think it fell apart under its own weight.
- Early in the saga, there were complaints that a lot of episodes were dedicated to Future Trunks partaking to the Slice of Life episodes in the present, and very little focus on Goku Black. This complaint dissipated where not soon after there was extensive focus on Goku Black throughout the saga.
- The Mafuba was presented as a means of defeating Future Zamasu and as a Call-Back to the original Dragon Ball series. Goku (and later Future Trunks), both went to the trouble of learning it, with Trunks even using it. It didn't stop the villains, but it did force them to use their trump card and become Merged Zamasu.
Character specific
- Future Trunks' return. Most were happy about the return of a beloved Ensemble Dark Horse, while others hated it because they felt Trunks' story was completed in the Cell Games and the new story overrides his happy ending. However, a lot of the criticism died down once the Future Trunks Saga started.
- The Reveal in the manga that the Pilaf Gang from Future Trunks' timeline regained their youth in the same way as the main timeline. Some consider it an acceptable constant between the two universes, while others consider it to be a particularly nasty Kick the Dog moment at worst or a boneheaded mistake at best, pointing out that Shenron's last wish could have helped undo some of the damage done by the Androids.
- Goku Black's Super Saiyan form which gives him pink hair, Super Saiyan Rosé. Fans of it think it goes with Toriyama's simplicity approach with the newer transformations, and like the color since it's so unexpected, especially from a character like Black. Detractors see it as girly, to the point of making homophobic remarks and thinking the transformation should have been white thanks to an interview Toriyama gave before the Future Trunks Saga started. Other are disappointed that Black has a transformation, while others don't mind that he can transform and don't mind the color, but think Super Saiyan Rosé is a dumb name. There's another camp who has no problem with the form itself, but dislike the pattern of adding yet another recolored Super Saiyan form. Much like Goku Black himself, once the form was formally introduced, the hate died down a fair bit.
- Goku Black's identity was been a large source of debate, the most common theory being that he is actually Future Gokunote whose dead body was possessed. However, it's revealed that he is actually Zamasu from another timeline, who switched bodies and killed the original Goku. Many fans were actually surprised by this; whereas Black is an Ensemble Dark Horse, Zamasu is a Hate Sink to many fans who were glad Beerus offed him in Episode 59. However many people couldn't decide whether this was a good twist or not. One camp believes it ruins his character, whereas the others do still like the character, since he isn't immortal, unlike Future Zamasu and still has a distinct personality and style of his own.
- Merged Zamasu being the final villain of the Future Trunks Saga. For the most part, fans find him shallow and annoying since he has no real characterization outside of his A God Am I personality and Villainous Breakdowns. Some also found him to be too much like Future Zamasu instead of Goku Black and would have preferred Black as the final villain. Others, however, like Merged Zamasu because of his power and being a Worthy Opponent for Vegito since he actually pushed him, unlike the mud stomp Vegito gave Super Buu.
- The writing for Goku Black and Zamasu. Are they complex and even Tragic Villains who allowed their strong sense of justice and their inability to see the shades of grey within mortals and gods to lead them ruined? Or, are they just Sociopaths whose 'justice' was just a shallow excuse for mass murder which ultimately made them more shallow than past villains in the franchise? Or, was the writing for Black and Zamasu far too complex for a simple series like Dragon Ball and such themes should be left to other anime that could do justice to such themes? Not helped by the fact that Zamasu often gave passionate speeches which sometimes do have valid points, but none of the heroes were willing to even humor him and treated Zamasu as a raging lunatic.
- From the Super manga, Vegeta getting Super Saiyan God. This has divided the fandom among those who are happy that Vegeta got the form and how it isn't exclusive to Goku, while others think it cheapened it since Super Saiyan God was specifically only obtainable through the ritual and it wasn't something you could just train for. Another group think it's a waste since Super Saiyan God is an obsolete form compared to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and hate the manga for gimping it with the stamina issues to make Super Saiyan God useful. And yet another group don't mind Vegeta getting the form, but hate how he used it, citing how Vegeta did something similar in Dragon Ball AF (Toyble) (which was created by the same author).
- Also from the manga, Goku Black's characterization. Manga Black is almost universally hated even by supporters of the manga. The divide come from if Black's characterization completely ruined the Future Trunks Saga's version of the manga or the saga is still very good if not better than the anime despite Black being a lackluster villain.
- In the manga, Merged Zamasu was given a one hour time limit like Vegito, since neither Black nor Future Zamasu were officially Supreme Kais. This has divided the fandom between those who liked the change since it's poetic irony that the 'supreme god' isn't even officially recognized as a Top God, and those who disliked it since it gimped Merged Zamasu and made it possible to defeat him by just running the clock. They also call it a Plot Hole since only the Supreme Kais could use the Time Rings, yet Black and Future Zamasu could without any issue.
- There is also the divided that Vegito in the manga stomped Merged Zamasu with ease. While the fight was short, the anime made Merged Zamasu a Worthy Opponent to Vegito, being the first villain since Super Buu to actually push a fusion out of Goku and Vegeta. The fans that hate the manga version of the fight say it made the fight boring since it just copies all the other fusion Curb Stomp Battles like Super Buu and Omega Shenron. Others love seeing cocky, fully in control Vegito back and him smashing Merged Zamasu who they call a Smug Snake. Another group feels the same as the first, but state that Vegito should have wrecked this version of Merged Zamasu since both Black and Future Zamasu were made weaker than their anime counterparts. And yet another part of the fandom found the overall fight boring because Merged Zamasu had no unique techniques other than throwing metal blocks.
Episode specific
- Episode 66, the climax of the Future Trunks Saga, is by far the most controversial episode in perhaps the franchise:
- The reveal of Vegito's return in the preview for Episode 66 was definitely this. While many chat streams exploded upon seeing him, there were also people that were disappointed that they showed him in the preview as opposed to the actual episode itself, killing the surprise of it (especially the fact that some previews will not even use certain footage to throw viewers off). Many people predicted him to return for the final battle against Merged Zamasu anyways, especially with Gowasu/Supreme Kai there. This in the end turned out to a Bait-and-Switch. Although Vegito played an important role in weakening Merged Zamasu, the person who got the final blow was Future Trunks.
- The fact it was neither Goku nor Vegeta who are the ones that defeated Merged Zamasu, but Future Trunks with a spirit bomb-like sword attack, and the fact they made a retcon on how the Potara fusion works does not sit well with some people, while others enjoyed it, saying it actually makes sense in hindsight. Detractors, however, say the Potara fusion being limited makes the whole process less dramatic, and it makes both Vegito and Gogeta not that different from each other. note
- The pacing. Some think this episode was too rushed and they should have divided it into two or three episodes with Vegito getting an entire episode for himself. Others like the fast pace, especially since it aligns with the pacing of most modern anime that don't follow a manga or are seasonal. A third group agrees that the episode felt rushed, but the animation more than made up for it.
- Episode 67 got a few of its own:
- Fans debate if Merged Zamasu being able to merged with the multiverse after losing his physical form was an Ass Pull, Diabolus ex Machina created to give the saga a Downer Ending to the point of being a Shoot the Shaggy Dog Story, or it made sense since Merged Zamasu was an immortal even if half his physical body wasn't at the time Future Trunks sliced him in half, so it wouldn't make sense for him to die.
- The ending of the Future Trunks Saga. Some like it because it's a Bittersweet Ending that borders on being a Downer Ending since the future timeline is destroyed along with everyone except Future Trunks and Mai despite Zamasu being defeated. These fans cites this as a good thing since Dragon Ball is infamous for its lack of stakes thanks to all its Reset Buttons. Others hated the ending because they feel that Future Trunks deserved a happy ending after all the shit he has been forced through, and they also feel the ending made the entire story arc meaningless. A third camp likes that Future Trunks' timeline was wiped out, for the same reasons as the first camp, but dislike that the only characters with any character development from that saga were Put on a Bus instead of remaining in the present.
Universe Survival Saga
Tournament Roster
- Who is or isn't on the U7 team has fans debating if the characters' choices made sense:
- Roshi and Android 17 being chosen. While fans like Roshi, they don't see how he can be considered among the elite of U7 since almost everyone in the cast is stronger than him, which was also an issue when Roshi helped defend the Earth in the Resurrection of 'F' Saga. Android 17 also got mixed reactions since although people are happy to see him, they prefer other characters like Yamcha, Goten, and Trunks. 17 divided the base further when it was revealed that he could trade blows with a suppressed Super Saiyan Blue Goku note , making him one of the strongest members on the team. Some hate this, calling it unrealistic that 17 reached the level of the gods without any assistance and called it another Frieza moment. Others are fine with it since this makes 17 more useful for the tournament, yet others comment that 17 has had over a decade to train unlike Frieza who got his boost in just four months, making it hardly the worst ass-pull the franchise has ever pulled.
- Yamcha being left out of the tournament. Fans have pointed out that less popular characters like Android 17 have been included, as well as Roshi, who is significantly less powerful than him note . This has led some fans to accuse Toriyama of playing favorites, particularly as Yamcha has been left out of every story arc despite his unique moveset.
- Goten and Trunks not being part of the U7 team. Goten, Trunks, and especially Gotenks are extremely popular and are some of the most powerful characters on the cast, which made fans wonder why characters like Roshi and Android 17 were chosen over them. Some argued that they are unneeded since Goten and Trunks are immature fighters and don't take things seriously (Gotenks especially). This was explained in the show by Goku who stated that Goten and Trunks, while powerful, were too inexperienced and too straightforward for this type of tournament and Master Roshi was chosen for his experience and his vast knowledge of fighting techniques. While most accept this explanation, a few still hate that Goten and Trunks are left out and called Goku's reasoning weak.
- All the fighters being from Earth. Fans wanted another unknown, powerful fighter on the main team since it's boring to believe that there are no other powerful warriors in Universe 7. Others believe it makes sense since Frieza was considered the strongest mortal in the universe until Super Saiyan Goku arrived, and all the enemies since him have been man-made creations, an Eldritch Abomination, and the upper gods. However, this point became moot with the reveal that Frieza is returning to replaced Buu who fell asleep again.
- None of the villains were revived as contenders for the tournament. Some fans find the idea of Frieza and Perfect Cell being on the U7 team interesting and fun, especially since they are among the strongest in the universe and could even lead to a redemption arc. Others hate the idea, especially Frieza returning for a third time. This point became moot with the revelation that Frieza would be revived for 24 hours by Baba to take Buu's place in the tournament, since he fell asleep. And this naturally opened a new debate about why was Frieza chosen over Cell since Frieza came back, while Cell would be fresh and new.
- Detractors of Cell state that he doesn't have the same personal connections as Frieza, is much weaker, is a pain in the butt to animate because of his spots, and Cell isn't that popular in Japan compared to the west. Also, Frieza coming back ties Resurrection 'F' into the main story of Super. One of the biggest criticisms about the film and retelling was how it was standalone from everything outside of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Goku and Vegeta training under Whis.
- Detractors of Frieza point out that Frieza has already shown to be unable to cooperate with the Z fighters because of his pride and that Cell could have interesting interactions with the Androids and Gohan while also having a much stronger motivation to join the tournament - to test his strength against powerful opponents. He would also be an excellent teammate for every fighter since he has cells of all them (except 17 and 18) and knows their fighting styles. People also point out if Frieza could have such a huge jump in power in a short time, Cell possessing Saiyan and Frieza cells could just as easily achieve a similar level of power, without the sudden power-ups of several reintroduced characters have had in Super.
In General
- The placement of the tournament after the Future Trunks Saga. Many fans were hoping that the tournament would happen as the final arc of Super since it has a Grand Finale feel and nothing could top a multiverse tournament with all the gods in attendance. Others wanted it later so Uub and Pan could be part of it. This has calmed down a bit after it was revealed that only eight of the twelve universes would be fighting (meaning the multiverse would be left mostly intact) and it's a battle royale over a traditional tournament.
- Universes being destroyed if a team loses. Some love this twist since it ups the stakes and it wouldn't just be a repeat of the Champa Saga with more fighters. Others call it a waste to destroy the multiverse since it gets rid of several possible storylines like Goku and Vegeta going to Planet Sadla and Super didn't need another dark arc so soon after the Future Trunks Saga. Others say that there is no way they're going to permanently destroy the multiverse and if the worst happens, they can used the Super Dragon Balls to wish everything back.
- The fact that the Universal Tournament of Power is a single battle royale of the Universes fighting at once. While some appreciate this as it evades having the arc stretch out for too long and emphasizes the importance of teamwork, others note that it could end up feeling like a fairly short arc, even if lengthened, due to how it would likely settle quite fast if so many fights are happening at once. Even worse is the implication that, in order to move at a steady pace at all, various interesting characters from competing universes will be ignored or skipped.
- The revelation that there are only 28 planets in U7 with intelligent life. This has shocked and outraged many within the fandom, claiming that it made the universe needlessly small and doesn't makes sense since Frieza had an empire with dozens of planets and races under his command. At its worst, fans claim this is a cop-out to excuse why all the U7's fighters are from Earth (despite four of the ten being aliens who just happen to live on Earth). Others argued that this information was already known if you read Jaco the Galactic Patrolman where Jaco actually stated that the universe has very little intelligent life, which was why 38 patrolmen were enough to police the entire Milky Way that has thousands of galaxies. There's also the fact that U7 suffered through at least two massive genocides with Majin Buu and Freeza's empire, along with Beerus nuking planets over bad food.
- Super Saiyan Blue being used so frequently by Goku in this saga. Fans are divided about it making the form seem less special, since Goku uses it willy-nilly against people he doesn't need to, like Bergamo and Krillin. This became worse after it was revealed that 17 could trade blows with a suppressed Super Saiyan Blue Goku, even though Goku himself said he didn't need to use the form. The more vocal fans claim that this makes Super Saiyan Blue an obsolete form, and that a new transformation is likely to happen. Others argued that Goku's usage of the form is justified since he went all out against Bergamo (being told not to hold back), he was testing Krillin to see how he would react fighting someone at that level, and just because 17 is extremely strong doesn't undermine Goku's godly power. They also point out that Super Saiyan Blue was treated as a big deal by the gods and went equal with Toppo, someone who's a candidate to be the next God of Destruction.note
- Related to the above, will there be a new transformation? The fans who wants one claims that it's about time since Super Saiyan Blue is over two years old, been around for four story arcs in Super, and it's past due for a new form. Fans against this idea say that the Saiyans don't need more transformations, especially since Toriyama stated that Goku learned after fighting Beerus that he could get stronger without making new transformations, and Super Saiyan Blue has been billed as a nearly perfect Super Saiyan form (in the anime) since it's basically a mastered Super Saiyan with god ki. They also point out that Goku mastering the Kaioken would be better than him getting another form since Kaioken can be used up to ten times and beyond, while a transformation at best would be a two or four times multiplier like Super Saiyan 2 and 3.
- The preview that Buu will fall asleep right before the tournament and Goku will have Fortuneteller Baba revive Freeza for twenty-four hours to replace him. While this negates a previous issue fans had with the arc, this comes with a whole new slew of issues with the fandom, including another arc where Buu is Put on the Bus. Others think that it is an interesting idea to have a truly villainous character on the team, particularly when Goku is already seen as evil by so many of the universes; or as a chance to utilize Freeza in a new, interesting way as a begrudged ally for the sake of his existence compared to his similar characterization from the Resurrection F saga. Some people feel like this will make the arc too predictable, including backstabbing Team U7 at the last minute, knowing that he really has nothing to lose with temporary revival, and he'd rather be better off destroyed entirely as opposed to tortured in Hell. Additionally, people feel like Cell could've been a better choice, considering how he hasn't been seen (outside of filler) since his death. Also, they think that Cell would've been better to reason with as opposed to Freeza.
Breather Episodes
- The Breather Episodes in general. Some are annoyed that they are eating up time when we could just be getting to the Universal Tournament already while others point out that these allow more time to work on that arc and think that the episodes are an enjoyable and relaxing experience after the extremely heavy Future Trunks Saga. A third group called the Breather Episodes the best stories in Super and prefer them to the normal story arcs.
- The Dr. Slump crossover episode, specifically in the United States. For the few US fans who read and knew about Dr. Slump, they enjoyed the episode for its humor and getting to see Toriyama's older characters again. Some who didn't know about Dr. Slump also liked the episode for Breaking the Fourth Wall and not taking itself seriously. However, this episode has a vocal group that outright hated the episode, saying that the tone doesn't fit Super or it wasn't funny.
- Episode 70, the 'Baseball Episode'. Either considered one of the cleverest attempts at humour in Super and one of the best filler episodes, or the premise was a whole new level of cringe-worthy that put the "Goku and Piccolo learning to drive" filler to shame.
