Headscratchers / The Swan Princess

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• Rothbart mentions he wants to obtain the kingdom legally, so he could avoid problems that would arise from taking it by force, like La Résistance or others trying to take the kingdom from him. The thing is, that is not entirely accurate, because people are aware of his banishment, and thus know that he is a psycho-wizard trying to take over the world. This means that even though Rothbart does obtain the kingdom legally, there will still be people who will attempt to overthrow him. As a result, his plot to get Odette to marry him is pointless, because it doesn't, and will not change the publicly known fact that he has attempted crimes against King William before.
  • But if he marries Odette, it's technically her as the heir that makes him king. He doesn't automatically become king, she has to declare him the king. If she did that then legally all his previous crimes would be forgotten or pardoned. Of course there was little chance of Odette doing that anyway but Rothbart hoped he could persuade her.
  • Odette says of the kingdom "take it then, you have enough power" to which Rothbart responds "tried that". If he was able to take the kingdom solely through his magic, he would have. But he's thinking of the long term; Odette is a beloved princess to whom the royal army would probably be loyal. If she was thought dead and returned alive, there would be rejoicing. Rothbart probably hoped to make her a puppet queen, where he would influence her to do his bidding, and the soldiers and common folk loyal to her would do so in her name.
• What happened to Odette's kingdom? It has to be active, with Odette somehow still the legal heir, or Rothbart would not have put her through all this. Yet, her father is dead, and no mention is made of what happened to it, even in the sequels.
  • I guess it was the same people taking care of the kingdom when they went away every summer? Maybe the sea dividing the kingdoms is very small? I mean, if they can get from their kingdom to Uberta's quickly enough and back, to afford to stay "every June until September" then it can't be that far. If that's the case, it would be pretty easy to just have an adviser rule and send letters back-and-forth, with the occasional visit.
  • It's very possible that another member of Odette's family was made king/queen. That's how the line of succession works with normal royalty (though I know it's a futile effort to try and bring any real world logic into this film). Since Odette married Derek, and is now his queen, she would probably be taken out of the line of succession in her own kingdom. So, whoever was after her in line probably rules now.
  • I assume they at the moment they are ruling it from Swan Lake Castle and once Uberta passes on they will rule both.
  • Remember Odette and Derek's parents wished to merge the two kingdoms into one. Odette's kingdom was probably being ruled by a regent until Odette was found. Now that the two are married the two kingdoms have probably become one, just like the King and Queen planned.
  • The people in William's kingdom are used to the king and princess spending their summers in Uberta's kingdom. They might not even have heard about the whole kidnapping before Derek found Odette, and then they would just need to take a trip back over the sea to tell everyone about William's own assassination and have the kingdoms joined properly.
• Why didn't William just marry Uberta, rather than go through all that arranged-marriage hassle? They clearly have a thing for each other, and Derek is a perfectly viable heir to the throne.
  • The intro mentions that he's getting older, and Uberta has clearly greying hair, plus the fact that she only has one child in such a time period suggests that she might be infertile already. So maybe it's a "We're both getting older, we don't want this merger to only last until we die, let's have our kids get together to ensure it for much longer than either of us could manage if we hooked up."
  • I second the above. In the sequel, Uberta celebrates her 50th birthday. She's clearly getting on, and it's not possible to have any more children. If Uberta and William married, the kingdoms would only be united for say...twenty years or less. Odette and Derek could unite the kingdom for another fifty years, and don't forget they'd have children, so there would be a legitimate ruler of BOTH after them. And it's not like the two kingdoms are at war; they could afford to wait twenty years.
• On the subject of Rothbart wanting Odette to marry him, why is he willing to let her die at the end? Wouldn't that mean he lost his one chance at getting William's kingdom legally?
  • Apparently, he didn't expect her to try and escape. At all. The fact that she'd nearly succeeded ticked him off too much, the chance she broke the spell wasn't worth begging for her hand anymore.
  • Let's be honest, Rothbart, while cunning and clever is still a short-fused and temperamental villain. The moment things look like they're going to get out of hand is the moment he's going to either throw a hissy-fit, or do something spiteful for kicks.
  • And Derek was still able to break Odette's curse by proving his love for her, even after she had died. It's not a stretch to imagine that Rothbart could've dispelled the curse in order to save her, by that same logic. He just wanted to torment Derek about her supposed death before killing him, likely.
• On that above note...why does Rothbart want to "finish Derek [himself]"? I mean, as petty as killing Odette is, at least he's angry enough to do so. Odette has been nothing but a thorn in his side for the several weeks/months he's held her hostage and tried to convince her to marry him. Her appearing to have an out after so long that he can't stop made his decision. Why destroy Derek? He's had nothing to do with Rothbart's banishment.
• Why didn't Rothbart just force Odette to marry him? Surely there are better ways of making her marry him that turning her into a swan. Mind Control. Threaten Derek's life if she doesn't. Get a dodgy priest to perform the wedding while she's asleep.
  • His magic might not be able to do much more than change other people's shapes. A swan may be the best thing he can do. Plus, "I wouldn't marry him so he turned me into a swan...I got better" is less believable case for a coerced and therefore fake marriage than "I wouldn't marry him so he threatened to kill my true love."
    • Across all three movies, the exact nature of the Forbidden Arts is repeatedly stated to be limited to creating, changing, and destroying. For example, if you didn't like your couch and you'd mastered the Arts, you could use the Arts to create a new one, change the old one to something more to your liking, blow it to smithereens or any combination of the three. You couldn't use the Arts to, for example, brainwash professional movers to haul your old couch away for free.
  • Also, free will may simply be a factor that his magic cannot overcome.
  • Going by the logic of the Forbidden Arts in this universe, he can create illusions and destroy things (namely killing people) but he can't force Odette to do something she wouldn't otherwise. What he is able to do is change her into a swan to torture her into submitting to his will. It's safe to say that if he was able to Mind Rape Odette into marrying him, he would have.
• Odette and Derek didn't appear to like each other until the scene in the ballroom. At that point, the only thing that has changed about him is his looks, so it would seem that this is what attracts her to him. Yet when she asks him, "Is beauty all that matters?" she gets mad when he replies, "What else is there?"
  • It's also possible that Odette realized that BOTH Derek and her were only interested in looks and thought it would be disastrous for them to tie the knot.
  • One part of the opening song indicates that Derek at least began to have a crush on Odette before the dramatic love confession part (he's jealous of her flirting with the guards).
  • Derek and Odette definitely had a thing for each other long before they were adults. Derek says twice later in the movie (during the chess scene with Brom and again right after Rothbart dies) that he loved her well before he noticed she was beautiful. Also, look at Odette's expressions when she asks Derek if beauty is all that matters to him and when she's waiting for him to answer. She looks worried and pleading, and clearly was hoping for a different answer, not for an excuse to break the relationship off.
    • "This Is My Idea," only showed clips from maybe 10-15 days out of 10-12 summers, so there could have been a lot more between them than those few squabbles. After all, Derek mentions at the end of the movie that he was attracted to Odette's compassion and bravery all his life, but no hint of this was shown during their childhoods. Odette probably had similar reasons.
  • Another thing about "This Is My Idea" is that Odette appears to warm up to her visits with Derek a lot more than he does to her. We're shown snippets of Derek hiding from Odette in his treehouse, Derek being jealous that Odette is flirting with the guards, Derek being grumpy that Odette beat him at cards... Rather than a mutual sense of dislike, it seems like the intended interpretation was that they both had deeper feelings for each other but Derek just took longer to grow out of his "Girls have cooties" phase in order to recognize his.
  • There's also the simple point that while Odette is clearly physically attracted to Derek, she's not the one calling for a marriage and citing physical attraction as the reason.
• Is Jean-Bob really a prince who was turned into a frog or is he just lying?
  • Probably just delusional.
  • I always figured the joke was that it could go either way. Not that it really mattered because Status Quo Is God.
  • Why do the rest of the characters treat him as if he's crazy for saying that he's a prince anyway? In another setting, he probably would be, but there's a nearby sorcerer with the power to change the shape of anything or anyone which includes turning himself into a winged beast and casting a spell on the aforementioned Swan Princess so that she turns into a bird every night. That said, Jean-Bob's claims of being a transformed prince doesn't sound so far-fetched. Okay, yeah, at the end when he finally got the kiss he wanted from Odette that was supposed to change him back, he still remained a frog, though that could be due to it being a thank you kiss rather than the true love's kiss needed to break spells in fairy tales and Odette only liked him as a friend rather than romantically.
  • Perhaps a kiss isn't what breaks his spell. Must be Wrong Genre Savvy, I guess.
• How can it be in the first film that Odette is revived by Rothbart dying, while in the third it took burning the notes of the forbidden arts to bring her back?
  • Because making a vow of undying love to bring her back a second time might seem a tad silly?
    • The vow didn't work. Odette nearly died because Derek made it to the wrong person, remember? It was killing Rothbart that saved Odette. So why didn't killing Zelda, who used the same magic, immediately bring back Odette?
    • I figured it was just hilariously sloppy writing. And that Derek simply turned into a full-on necromancer to bring her back. He Who Fights Monsters and all that.
    • No, I'm pretty sure he wasn't expecting the burning of the notes (and the orb) to bring her back. He was just destroying them as an apology to Odette for not doing so earlier before Zelda stole the notes.
    • Indeed, the interpretation I had was that Odette's revival was a Deus ex Machina reward for destroying the notes — as it would keep someone from using the evil powers they grant ever again. As for the first film, Odette and Derek didn't understand what breaking the spell required in the first place. Derek made the vow with Odette, but the second step to break the spell was for him to prove it to the world. They made the mistake of thinking a mere public declaration of love would do that, and Rothbart was able to trick Derek into making it to the wrong woman. Derek then fights Rothbart in his Great Animal form in hopes of saving Odette...which proves to the world how much he loves her and bears out his original vow to her; thus the curse is broken and she is saved.
    • Plus, when Derek demanded that Rothbart bring Odette back to life, Rothbart declared that Derek would have to defeat him first. I simply assumed that Rothbart had accidentally created either a loophole in Odette's curse, or some sort of a magical verbal contract that he couldn't just go back on.
• Also, there's the fact that it apparently took Odette a considerable amount of time to decide to try to make a break and lead Derek to the lake and explain everything. Couldn't she have thought of trying that from the start, once she figured out how the curse worked and everything?
  • She'd thought of it. When Puffin tells her to fly to him, she tells Puffin she doesn't know where she is or how to get to him. And as she needs to land on the lake every night, there's only so much exploring it would be safe to do.
  • Also Odette didn't think of getting a map until Jean Bob suggested it. Without a map, she'd have hardly any way of knowing if she was even close to Derek's kingdom. She's just a princess that's been turned into a bird. Once she has the map, as well as a companion with a good sense of direction, her chances are much better.
• Why doesn't Derek come up with a plan to safely escort Odette to the ball? He's spent several weeks trying to find her and has learned that a dangerous sorcerer has cast a powerful spell on her. Why doesn't he come back during the day, grab Odette and bring her back? There's nothing saying that he can't make the vow to her in swan form. Granted, this plot hole is in the original ballet too, but it's clear that it was born out of impulsive and young love (as Odette and Siegfried first meet when they're adults).
• In the sequel, Clavius succeeds in getting the Forbidden Arts. Why didn't he actually use this godlike power to vanquish his foes and conquer kingdoms?
  • Clavius had only about ten minutes to use his power before the heroes arrived and took the orb. The song was just him celebrating, and really, wouldn't you want to celebrate for at least a little while if you'd just gotten the power to make yourself filthy rich and conquer the world? If he hadn't been stopped, that song would've been just the beginning.
• In the sequels, why are Derek and Odette living in the place where she was held hostage? Surely they'd have some bad memories and a bit of post traumatic stress, as well as two other kingdoms where they could live instead. And as they later discover, there's evil magic in the basement.
  • It was a perfectly good castle (OK, so it could have used a fixer-upper), so why waste it? It's not far from Euberta's castle and they didn't learn about Rothbart's notes until much later.
• Don't Derek and Odette see each other every summer? Why are they both so taken aback at how the other grew up?
  • Love is a fickle thing.
  • Odette always wore her hair in braids or pigtails or something like that all through the movie. When Derek first saw Adult!Odette, her hair was down, and he touches it when they kiss. So maybe Derek just has a thing for long, flowing hair. Or maybe Derek's line about her becoming a swan was just him realizing how he feels and deciding that she was Beautiful All Along? (Or at least since she was a teenager.)
  • There's also the fact that on both their parts, it's the personality that's a big factor as well. Odette's line is "I see inside him and my doubts are gone". She fell in love with Derek for the man he became, not just because he grew up to be handsome. Derek is unable to spit it out, but he'd reached the age where he could appreciate Odette's kindness and courage and that is what he fell in love with.
• How did Bromley get past the alligators in the moat when he escaped the dungeon?
  • They were still chasing after Speedy?
• During the climax of the third movie, Wizzer imitates Rothbart's voice in an attempt to distract Zelda. How can he even know how Rothbart's voice sounds?
  • Rothbart was a feared and well-known sorcerer in his time. The gap between the first and third movies is only a few of years. Perhaps Wizzer saw and heard Rothbart in the forest at some point. Wizzer seems to at least know about Rothbart in the film. Either that or Zelda somehow used magic to show Wizzer her memories of him.
• Bridget. Why in the world did she turn good all of a sudden? And why is everyone so accepting of her? She couldn't have fooled them into thinking that she was never involved, because Odette said that she "must know something about the Forbidden Arts." Yet in the first movie, she helped Rothbart, almost stopped Odette from getting the map, injured all three of the animals, impersonated Odette, nearly killed Odette by tricking Derek into making the vow to her instead, and even gave Swan!Odette a dirty, sadistic smirk right before the spell started sucking her life away. Why didn't Derek and Odette have the old hag beheaded for treason and attempted murder, instead of welcoming her into their home and treating her like a friend?
  • In the third film, Derek tells a story about how he and Rogers searched Rothbart's castle for remnants of the Forbidden Arts. We could assume that Bridget may have cut a deal with them. They would spare her if she gave them all Rothbart's secrets. Rothbart is dead so what reason would she have to be loyal to him? Especially if her life is involved. Since they moved into the castle at Swan Lake, they would need servants. And one that knew the castle at that.
• Why is Derek's "what else is there?" comment seen as such a big deal? Obviously it's upsetting and offensive to Odette, but for some reason William and Uberta also seem to view this as the end of the end of the relationship. Derek and Odette have HATED each other almost their entire childhoods. Their parents didn't seem to care about their individual feelings then, why would they start now?
  • William and Uberta don't seem to ever be willing to outright force Derek and Odette into marriage. (Hence the brief scene during "This is My Idea" where William is stressing out about the possibility of Odette not accepting the marriage, and Uberta telling him, "Urge her!") Rather, they seemed to just have the idea that they'd get over their childish squabbles and fall in love once they got older. (Notice how ecstatic they get when Derek decides that he wants to marry Odette after all.) The first kiss and Derek calling for marriage was a Hope Spot for them, and Derek sticking his foot in his mouth immediately afterwards basically convinced them that it was never going to work out and that they'd wasted their time pushing them into it all these years.
• Where did they bury King William and his knights' corpses, after they were killed by The Great Animal!Rothbart?
  • They were probably sent back to William's kingdom and entombed in a royal crypt or chapel there.
• In A Fairytale is Born, Uberta wants to abdicate and let Derek and Odette become The King and Queen of her Kingdom. So which Kingdom have they been in charge of since shortly before the song Because I love her, Derek states that he runs the kingdom.
• Also from A Fairytale is Born, it’s revealed that Derek’s parents had humble beginnings and Derek’s father was quite forgiving and merciful. However wouldn’t the backstory make more sense to be given to Odette’s parents? As shown during This is my Idea, Odette and William were more humble and in the beginning, it was mentioned that people thought William should’ve been more harsh when dealing with Rothbart.

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