Headscratchers / Shrek

• One of the princesses shown in the Magic Mirror for Farquaad to marry to be King is Cinderella. Why? She wasn’t born a princess. Did the filmmakers make her a biological princess? If not, if Farquaad chose Cinderella, wouldn’t they just be Lord and Lady of Duloc?
  • A game on the DVD only allows you to rescue Fiona. Maybe Fiona technically is the ONLY eligible bachelorette. Snow White is probably out of the question too, since Farquad sent the Seven Dwarfs to Shreks swamp and THEY had her body. Snow White was also in love with a handsome prince. So a kiss from the vain and arrogant Farquad wouldn't do squat to wake her up. I can imagine the mirror saying "Oops, sorry! (Snow White or Cinderella) is out of the question. Pick again!"
    • Who is this "handsome prince" Snow White is in love with? It's not Prince Charming because he's paired up with Fiona and later Rapunzel.
    • Maybe there's more than one Prince Charming?
  • Let's look at the 3rd movie and see Fiona's cousin Arthur. He's an example of how royal lineage can get lost among commoners (also his case in the King Arthur legends). Who's to say that's not the case with Cinderella too (in this satire of fairytales that is)? She could very well have had some royal heritage that to some extent given her princess status.
• Why is marrying a princess supposed to make Farquaad King of Duloc, not of the princess's kingdom?
  • He's already the absolute ruler of Duloc, he just wants the status and/or validation of a royal title. Princesses and their husbands don't usually inherit their home kingdoms anyway.
  • I'm still irked that Farquaad can't just declare himself king. I mean, is anybody going to complain? He's the highest authority around, answerable to nobody.
    • He's trying to realize his vision of a perfect kingdom. It's more about cementing his claim in his head than anyone else's.
    • If fairy tale land is anything like the real world Dung Ages in this regard, then as long as Duloc is not ruled by a king Duloc is a dependency of somewhere else's kingdom - possibly, but not necessarily Far Far Away itself. This means Farquaad can be omnipotent in his land (as the feudal lord he is) yet he has to pay taxes and can be drafted into the army of the king he's attached to as a vassal. The only way he can get rid of that and make Duloc an independent state is by being declared king of Duloc by his superior or by marrying a royal heir princess, thus gaining royal status himself in the process. This would explain also what happens to Duloc in the sequels: since Farquaad had no heirs when he died, his lands and title were (re)taken by his king and Duloc abolished as a distinct entity.
    • And overall, if an all-seeing magic mirror says that his only (if not easiest) way to officially become king is by marrying a princess, can he doubt it?
  • I'm fairly certain that rule was made up on the spot by the magic mirror to save face (literally).
  • A kingdom is ruled by a king. Otherwise, it's a manor (Lord), county (Count), Duchy (Duke), Principality (Prince) Queendom (Queen), or some other fancy title. The Mirror said it was technically not a perfect kingdom simply because it wasn't ruled by a king.
    • Does that mean that Duloc is technically a MANOR since it’s ruled by a LORD?
  • Inheritance might not work the same way in this world as it does in the real world. (And even the real world features more than one set of rules for this.) For all we know, maybe in this world marrying a princess does make you king of your realm.
    • The answer maybe in this fictional world rules are different (which has become very common in headscratchers by the way) is A Wizard Did It. All universes work by established rules (often the same as the real world's) unless otherwise specified.
• At the end of the first movie, why does Fiona turn into an ogre when she was born human?
  • I always thought that she became an ogre because true love's form was about inner beauty so being an "ugly" ogre still made her beautiful not just to Shrek but in general.
  • Because she takes "true love's true form." Her true love is Shrek.
  • Or because she was born with the spell on her and everyone just assumed the spell worked the other way. She is half frog.
• What exactly was going on with Farquaad. I know in a satire a villain's motives can be two-dimensional, but I didn't get what was the ultimate goal. He tells Gingerbread Man that the fairy tale characters are a threat to his "perfect kingdom". No rationalization on that one. Everything is imperfect, but Farquaad picks on the fairy tale characters for some reason. So then we see scenes of fairy tale characters led off in chains, likely to prison camps and such. At least one character (Mama Bear) is put to death. Okay, it makes sense up until this point. Then we see that dozens of fairy tale folk have taken over Shrek's swamp, including Pinocchio, who was seen being handed over to the guards earlier. (I guess he could have escaped during Donkey's distraction, but they could have mentioned that at some point) The pigs say that Farquaad was evicting them, which contradicts what we've seen up to this point. So Shrek goes to Duloc to complain. He tells Farquaad that his swamp is full of fairy tale folk, and Farquaad wears a pleased smile and says "Is it?" This should be an indication that Shrek has unwittingly betrayed them to certain doom, but nothing comes of this. After Shrek returns his swamp is cleared out and the fairy tale folk aren't seen until the wedding at the end, where they happily celebrate their best friend Shrek, who, um, betrayed their hideout (or refugee camp, or whatever) to an evil dictator and then was only indirectly involved in said dictator's death. Was there some stuff cut out of the movie, or am I missing something?
  • I just assumed that Farquaad put them in Shrek's swamp because he knows an Ogre lived there and assumed Shrek would eat them all.
  • Shrek's swamp is a day-and-a-half walk from the citadel of Duloc. It seemed to me like the grin was "Is that so? Well, they're your problem now". Mama Bear probably got killed in a scuffle or executed as an excuse to get Faarquad a new rug. I really don't know why the fairy-tale beings were celebrating Shrek as something like a friend, but maybe the dance party was supposed to be a non-canon thing like FFA Idol, etc. or answering "What Happened to the Mouse??" with "It didn't die, that's what happened", and the production team simply decided to take it as canon.
  • Gonna try and answer the original question here- 'Why Farquaad picks on the fairy-tale creatures?/What does he mean by perfect world?'- I believe that he's pretty specist and to go one step farther in the 'why' department, something of an adherent to order. Humans follow natural, physical laws and can be governed pretty tidily (in fairy tales, anyway). Duloc is highly ordered- everything is regular, and clean, and the introduction song at the info booth is all about how in Duloc, you follow the rules. Creatures from fairy tales break natural rules. Animals talk, various things fly (donkeys, fairies, little boys), you have magic and witchcraft, and that's not going into accounting for all the different cultures of these different species. Human mindsets and customs make sense to Farquaad and he can impose order on people who, on a sheer biological/general cultural level, think as he does. He can't necessarily make a unicorn or ogre or witch follow his rules, he interprets that as a threat to his bastion of order, and so he goes on a crusade to get rid of the beings that threaten his way of life. Alternatively/in conjunction with that, he sees other creatures as subhuman, and when 'subhumans' get uppity about silly little things like 'equal rights' and whatnot, trouble always happens... *cough*
  • They were all on Shrek's swamp because Farquaad dumped them there. When he says, "Is that so?" it doesn't mean he didn't know about it. Shrek is treated as a hero because all of the fairytale creatures were at the swamp under Farquaad's orders when they didn't want to be. By rescuing Fiona, Shrek freed them from the swamp. I don't know where they went afterward.
  • In regards to Farquaad's motivations, it's pretty simple: he's a self-hating bigot and hypocrite. He can't accept who he is on the outside, so he "compensates" and persecutes other fairy tale creatures out of said bigotry and self-loathing.
  • We see the fairy tale beings treat Shrek as a hero the instant he says he's going to get them out of his swamp because they don't like being there any more than he likes having them around. Consider also that Shrek is responsible for Lord Farquaad being eaten (not directly, yes, but it was because of his plan to stop the wedding). So from the fairy tale creatures' perspective, he heads off to get them living elsewhere and ends up killing the guy who seems to be the only one that cares about relocating them.
  • It's pretty simple. Farquaad hates having the fairytale creatures in his perfect kingdom, so he has them all arrested and forcibly relocated to a random swamp outside his city, which just happens to be Shrek's. The creatures are pretty miserable about this whole situation, so when Shrek announces his intention to go to Lord Farquaad and demand their removal from the swamp, they cheer him on (obviously they missed the part where Shrek is not doing this for their sake and doesn't care what happens to them as long as they are taken somewhere else). Shrek shows up in Farquaad's castle, beats up his knights, and gets held at arrow point. Farquaad tells Shrek to go get Fiona for him (with the implied threat that he will be shot otherwise). When Shrek complains about his swamp, Farquaad sweetens the deal by telling him he'll relocate the fairytale creatures elsewhere if Shrek succeeds in bringing Fiona back. Shrek succeeds, and Farquaad keeps his word. We have no idea where the creatures were taken between the scene where Shrek returns and the ending credits, but since they show up at the credits we know that they were kept alive; probably relocate to some OTHER random miserable area away from Farquaad's kingdom.
  • The captain of the guard mentioned a relocation area for the fairy tale creatures. I was always under the assumption that Shrek's swamp was that relocation area.
  • To put the final nail in the coffin so to speak, when Pinocchio says that Lord Farquaad forced them to come there (so no, it is not their refuge, it's their place of exile essentially) what Shrek says specifically is-"Attention all...fairytale things, do not get comfortable, you're welcome is officially worn-out. I'm gonna go see this guy Farquaad right now and get you off of my land and back where you came from!" So, with that in mind, the fairytale creatures interpreted that literally, so they thought Shrek was going to go make Farquaad bring them all home, and as a big scary ogre, he would likely succeed, not realizing that Shrek only said that out of ignorance of the actual situation, as they didn't explain why Farquaad sent them there. I assume Shrek didn't think about why Farquaad would send them there himself and was only concerned with getting his swamp back. The fact that the fairytale creatures might be put somewhere worse didn't occur to him, nor would he have cared, and he just said that because he assumed that they were just evicted from wherever they came from for no reason cared about. I'm guessing the fairy-tale creatures either never thought about how selfish Shrek's intentions were after the fact, or the more considerate side Shrek likely showed after the events of the film, and inadvertently getting rid of Farquaad outright, led to them being okay with it. As for Farquaad's racism, the above Tropers lay that out perfectly well.
• Gingerbread Man and Lord Farquaad discuss the Muffin Man. Who is "She"?
  Gingy: Do you know... the Muffin Man?
  Farquaad: The Muffin Man?
  Gingy: The Muffin Man...
  Farquaad: Oh yes, I know the Muffin Man... Who lives on Drury Lane?
  Gingy: Well... she's married to... the Muffin Man.
  Farquaad: The Muffin Man?!
  Gingy: THE MUFFIN MAN!!
  Farquaad: She's married to the Muffin Man...
  • The Muffin Woman doy.
  • Other than Rule of Funny, I'm sure Gingy was just trying to change the subject so Farquad would forget about locating more fairytale creatures.
• In the first movie, right after Fiona beats up the Merry Men, Shrek asks her where she learned her martial arts moves, and Fiona starts to say something like "When you live alone, you have to..." before being cut off. Um... this is an excellent question, and she didn't answer it. Where did she learn martial arts? Hasn't she been locked in the tower since she was a kid?
  • Keep in mind her mother can headbutt through walls. She either learned before she was sent away and just kept practicing or else learned from books while she was alone in the tower and simply had enough natural talent to make it work.
  • It does take a lot out of her though, and she does get delusional from all the hits.
  • It’s very unlikely that Fiona was just left alone in a tower since she was a little girl. Otherwise, her behavior and language abilities would be those of a Wild Child. Either she had people taking care of her and her education including frequent visits of her parents and private tutors, or she was sent to the tower when she was already an adolescent or even a young adult. She also seems to have a normal, loving, relationship with her parents which means she had to have a normal child-parent relationship growing up at least for a while, reinforcing that she was probably in at least her late teens when sent to the tower (which makes sense anyway, is not like they need a ten-year-old there waiting for another ten year old Charming to rescue her or even more creepy, some adult who would have to kiss her). That and the fact she had to be fed meant it impractical to have her there unless she was already close to the right age.
• It seems weird for Fiona to be ashamed of her nightly Ogress form and yet sympathize with Shrek who's unfairly judged for being an ogre. Being ashamed of being an ogre at night seems tantamount to thinking all ogres are ugly disgusting creatures. But she takes pity on a natural-born ogre who's been victimized by that same prejudice. Talk about hypocrisy.
  • I suppose you could see it that way, but to Fiona, her own Ogre form is a mark of being cursed and being ugly to fellow humans. Fiona hearing Shrek explain how it feels to be an ogre by birth, and getting treated horribly for it, makes her realize he's pretty much just as miserable, if not more than she is for the way he looks. It's more like she sympathizes with him because the world tells Shrek he's horrible and ugly, and she believes that she's ugly by being an ogre. To her, it's more like they're both being viewed as horrible and ugly for something that isn't their fault, thus they're in the same boat. Fiona didn't choose to be ashamed of her ogre form, it's the world seeing it that way that bothers her, which would also explain her being fine with it once she has people who accept her for being in that form.
• What was with the people in the audience of the wedding at the end of the first movie? They all start laughing when instructed to via cue cards when Lord Farquaad announces Shrek's love for Fiona...yet after he's eaten and the two profess their love themselves, everyone seems touched by it.
  • When an about-to-be-king with an executioner and army of knights on the stage order you to laugh, I think you would try your hardest to laugh.
    • The laughter seems like it was forced so none of them thought it was funny, they just had no other choice.
  • I always assumed that the people of Duloc have been raised to follow rules so much that they just did what the cue-cards say. It might explain Thelonius' changing the card to go "Awwww", as he knew that would add to the moment, and that they would just do it.
• Hw is it that Human Fiona's dress still comfortably fits Ogre!Fiona without Clothing Damage, when the transformation seems to add maybe fifty pounds or so of diplomatically undefined girth to her frame?
  • Magic?
  • A better question might be, why are Shrek's clothes too big for him after he transforms into a human, requiring him to "borrow" some from a passing carriage, but Fiona's dress still seems to fit her just fine?
  • She mostly wears her green dress. It might be magic to fit Fiona every time she transforms. That doesn't explain her wedding dress when she transforms in front of Shrek and Lord Farquaad though, but since it was fashioned fast (That very day) it was probably made from some cheap fabric that easily gets stretched but surprisingly gets little other damage.
• How do the frog and snake balloons from the first film float? Do ogres breathe helium?
  • Possibly. Shrek's farts are pungent enough to kill fish underwater, and he later tells Donkey that if he had farted, Donkey would be dead. I wouldn't be surprised if all of Shrek's, uh... "bodily gases" have an extremely high chemical makeup, due to ogres' extremely unconventional eating habits.
    • But the snake was blown by Fiona, not by Shrek...
    • Fiona is an ogre at night, so maybe some ogre biology is intact around the clock for her (including her ability to stomach rotisserie weed rats)
  • Rule of Funny people. You may as well also question how Fiona can blow up birds with her singing. It's for comedy.
• Shrek is having a meal while all the Fairytale Creatures who were forced out of Duloc are setting up their camp... In front of Donkey, who was forced to stay outside. And Shrek only learns about this camp after his own home is invaded and he tries to kick them out. So why didn't Donkey, who's trying to become Shrek's friend at this point, say anything about the camp?
  • Donkey was either so deep in sulking in loneliness to even notice (he has a rather short attention span), or he just didn't wanna bother Shrek since it's been too established that Shrek finds him too irritating to let him sleep in the house for the "one night only" stay.
  • Also Donkey probably didn't think the whole swamp was Shrek's territory and may have assumed the others were neighbors or even just travelers.
• By about halfway through the first movie (or maybe even a little earlier), Donkey had won Shrek over and had become a trusted friend. But it wasn't until near the very end of the film, after nearly everything had gone wrong (Fiona goes off to marry Farquaad due to her and Shrek's mutual misunderstanding, Shrek and Donkey's big blow-up) that Shrek stops being dismissive toward Donkey and treats him more as an equal partner. Why? Donkey, after initially being run off of Shrek's land, later returns to reassert his rights to half the booty under his aid and contributions. He refuses to let Shrek (who, mind you, is ENRAGED and miserable at this point) scare him off or intimidate him into backing down or giving up his rightful claim, even getting into a shoving match with the monster. Donkey them proceeds to give Shrek a classic "The Reason You Suck" speech that makes him come around. As it was at that point Donkey truly earned Shrek's respect, Shrek starts to treat Donkey decidedly differently than just an annoying tagalong or even pet, but as a true ally (aside from some good-natured ribbing, of course).
  • Shrek being dismissive of Donkey had less to do with not respecting him yet and more to do with the Third-Act Misunderstanding that this movie made famous. The two of them got along fine during the scene at the windmill, but then Shrek overhears Donkey talking privately with Fiona and assumes their "hideous beast" line was referring to him. That's why he yelled at Donkey for supposedly stabbing him in the back (since Donkey had earlier said he didn't mind how Shrek looked) and why the two make up and become friends again once Donkey reveals Fiona wasn't talking about Shrek's appearance.
• Why did Fiona think Shrek wouldn't love her as an ogre? He's an ogre. Does she think male ogres don't find females of their species attractive?
  • A). Fiona didn't know all that much about ogres and what attracts them. B). She felt ashamed to be an ogre, as she was born a human, and thought this wasn't how she was supposed to look since she's a princess. C). When Shrek confronted her about what he heard between her and Donkey about "loving a hideous beast", she assumed he knew about her curse, and believed he, like everyone else, couldn't love her because of it.
    • Regarding the latter, why is it that Fiona immediately jumped to that conclusion when he never even saw her then?
    • Because she assumed he was eavesdropping on everything she mentioned to Donkey, including her nightly transformation. But Shrek only heard her say "Who.could love a beast so hideous and ugly? And princess and ugly just don't go together! That's why I can't stay here with Shrek. My only chance to live happily ever after is to marry my true love." There's a lot of context Shrek didn't get from that, but he's upset enough to exaggerated and tell Fiona he heard "every word" the next morning.