Headscratchers / Kid Icarus: Uprising

• So, when Hades is revealed to be the true mastermind behind Medusa's revival and is the one really controlling the Underworld at the end of Chapter 9, Palutena recognizes who he is immediately and knows him by name/his role in the universe. It's established again and again in Uprising that Palutena, while knowledgeable, is not Omnipotent and there are many things even she doesn't know about (such as the Chaos Kin, the Wish Seed being a fake, etc.). But, if she knew Hades existed and that he was the *true* leader of the Underworld the entire time, why didn't she ever bring him up or suspect him of being behind Medusa's revival or involved in the Underworld Invasion at all? That seems like a very major plothole if you ask me.
  • The story has a moderately bad habit of being too "in the moment" for its own good, which results in things like important new characters not being discussed at all until they become relevant to the story; Pyrrhon and The Aurum suffer from this, too.
• So Viridi wants to destroy the human race to stop them from destroying the environment...which would result in their souls reincarnating to continue destroying the environment.
  • Reincarnation isn't 100% guaranteed in this setting, and there is a chance humans won't be reincarnated as humans again, especially if there are no more human mothers to give birth.
  • Also, it could be a way to put the (literal) fear of God into their souls, so that even when reborn, they will know VERY WELL not to cross her again
  • Viridi is a Psychopathic Manchild with immense power at her fingertips. She doesn't think long term.
• If palms are applied to person like tattoos are, how do Pit and the fighters remove them?
  • A Wizard Did It, quite literally.
  • It's clearly a removable process, hence "like a tattoo", not an actual Power Tattoo. It's quite possible to make a "temporary tattoo" without magic.
• The Claws allow Pit to move faster because they are lightweight. In that case, why doesn't Pit gain increased speed from Palms, which should weigh less being a magical combination of a sleeve and a tattoo, and the Orbitars, which float at Pit's side and shouldn't weigh him down at all?
  • Because claws are more melee oriented than Palms or Orbitars. You gotta be in and out before the enemy can begin attacking.
  • Heavy Tattoos?
    • Maybe the ink is made of osmium.
  • Lightweight may actually be the point. They don't take much effort to swing around, but they still have weight. It's possible Pit could be swinging their mass in coordination with his steps to aid in his momentum...although doing so should also make it hard for him to come to a stop, slow his ability to turn corners, and get really tiring really quickly...
  • Ignoring physics, Competitive Balance, although it could be the godly power that goes towards projectile function was purposefully redirected towards "movement speed".
• Did Pyrrhon really pull a Face–Heel Turn or was he being controlled by the Aurum Brain when he said he needed the Gods and Goddesses to work together so he could try and control them? I have a hard time believing that he was The Chessmaster given his personality and the need to sprout justice. I mean, his idol only mentions that he's smarter despite his appearance but other than that, there are no indications that he really betrayed the group for his own selfish needs or tried to be the hero in destroying the Aurum Brain only for it to backfire. Also, did he die at the end of chapter 17 given he doesn't show up after he chucks the Aurum Brain far away from the planet.
  • Maybe he retreated back to the heart of the sun and hibernated.
    • His Aurum Pyrrhon idol states that he wanted to control the Aurum for himself, but ended up being overwhelmed. As for whether he dies or not, I think that he probably lived and is currently somewhere in space. According to Viridi, she says "He finally does something useful", which probably means he's still alive.
    • The way I read that scene was that Pyrrhon was dead, and the force propelling the Aurum out of the system was his body burning/combusting for however long a god of fire burns for, basically acting as a rocket propulsion system. He's "finally doing something useful", but only in death.
  • You could draw it halfway. Taking control of the Aurum was clearly his own idea. "Using" them to attack those who helped him do it was probably their idea. They could have been projecting the illusion of Pyrrhon being in control of his actions but unable to hide his subjugation when Pit made it back to see Pyrrhon face to face.
• Given Palutena's obsession with the natural order, what happens after the ruler of the Underworld is defeated, leaving a gaping power vacuum? There doesn't seem to be much balance there.
  • Hades jokes in the very last portion of the game, that he can bring himself to life but it would take some time...like twenty five years. Chances are that there will be no more attacks on the humans unless Viridi continues to attack them leaving a peaceful era...but the problem is that dead souls won't be guided with no one in charge of the underworld at the moment...meaning that Palutena might have made things worse until Hades comes back...if he comes back at all and that's if he has a change of heart, which he probably won't, but maybe he won't abuse his power if he revives himself.
    • Didn't Palutena say that Reapers take lost souls to the Underworld?
    • She did. Reapers, however, are also a part of Underworld forces. Hopefully, they weren't wiped out with the rest of the army at the end of the war.
    • You'll never see a Reaper (despite a few Reapettes and Dyntos clones) attacking any place that isn't actually in the Underworld, so it may be more accurate to call them part of the Underworld army's defenses. They act exactly like guards anyway.
  • Medusa will probably take up the role of Goddess of the Underworld. And considering her Heel–Face Turn at the end, she might not want to attack Palutena this time around... maybe.
    • Heel-Face...she was obliterated by Hades! And he didn't have plans to revive her again when he pulled off the You Have Outlived Your Usefulness!
  • There may be a power vacuum in the Underworld now, but given that Hades was using the souls to create armies for himself, it may be that Palutena and the rest of the pantheon simply figured that a power vacuum would be less harmful to the universe as a whole than having Hades there actively breaking the system. I'm sure there are other gods and goddesses out there who could help pick up the slack. Sure, the souls might be milling around aimlessly at the moment, but it's better than getting eaten by Hades or turned into monsters.
• Was Dark Pit only helping Pit for his his own self-preservation, or did he have a change of heart? He is shown to have a conscience at times, but it can be a little vague whether he is genuinely fond of Pit or not. I personally think the latter, but I'm not completely certain.
  • I'm certain that he did have a Heel–Face Turn because before chapter 21 like in chapter 9, he helps Pit despite of the fact there is no need for him to help him at this point of the game, and this is before he finds out that Pit needs to be alive so he can continue living. So I'm certain of the latter than the former. Besides, outside of story mode like Light vs. Dark, the game implies that the two train together, so I am certain that he has grown attached to Pit if only a little.
• Does the Phoenix know that the Wish Seed is actually a fake? The Phoenix guards the thing like it's real, but it's all just a ruse set by Hades! Did Hades actually make the Wish Seed? Did he also make the Phoenix?
  • I think the Phoenix doesn't care if the Wish Seed is fake or not. It was already pissed off that people were coming into it's territory and disturbing it. What I do know is that Dyntos created the Phoenix but why he created the Phoenix when the Wish Seed doesn't exist is unknown.
    • The only Phoenix that Dyntos created was the replica for Pit's Trials in Ch. 24. The original was a normal, fire-breathing bird.
  • Or it could be that the "wish seed" at the Phoenix's nesting place was really the Phoenix's egg, which just happened to look like a seed.
    • Sadly jossed; you can destroy it, and if you do, Hades will complain that you "broke his toy", and Palutena will say that it was only a bomb.
• So what was the deal with Hades' Heart? Even if it was destroyed, Hades still lives, so what was the point of having one in the first place?
  • I personally thought that the heart was symbolic. Check the WMG section on what I thought about the heart and it being out of place. Given it's cute appearance seems weird...
    • Also, the idol's description indeed says it doesn't even pump blood.
  • While it's not confirmed or anything, a simple explanation of this would be side effects of souls overdose.
• At the beginning of the Dual Boss fight in the lategame, Pit starts asking Magnus questions about his past motivations and what he's been doing lately, only to be rebuffed. Even if he's awesome, shouldn't Pit have a more relevant target? He last saw Gaol immediately after he defeated and revealed her in chapter 2, more than three years have passed since then, and Magnus is teamed up with her. Wouldn't that be the more worthwhile story to hear?
  • That would have turned the game into a major Kudzu Plot then.
  • They're probably saving both stories for the sequel. I'm sure we'll see more of those two.
    • Except Sakurai said that there won't be a sequel.
    • He said he had no desire to make a sequel, and that someone else should do it if there is one. That said, whether he had any idea where to go with such things or if his successor would have to do it all themselves is an open question.
• Why didn't Arlon state that the Lunar sanctuary was a prison for the Chaos Kin anyways?'
  • This is actually referenced in chapter 19. Viridi says that Arlon had a sense of pride that prevented him from just telling Pit and Palutena about the Chaos Kin instead of beating around the bushes and making it seem like he was helping Viridi make another Reset Bomb.
    • A better question would probably be why was that information confidential in the first place, and why would Viridi have Arlon attack Pit instead of having the Fortress stay clear of the war zone? I don't think Hades would release the Chaos Kin, given his reaction to the Aurum, there aren't any other gods that we know of who would willingly unleash it on the world, and Viridi had to be aware that bringing a weapon like the Sanctum into the war would result in everyone trying to destroy it. Was she really arrogant enough to assume it would be able to fight the forces of Palutena and Hades and still have enough power to contain an extra-dimensional god-killing abomination, or did she somehow manage to forget about its prisoner when she was giving orders to her commanders?
    • Viridi was completely offscreen throughout chapter 13; the only order she gave to the sanctum was to remain defensive, and I highly doubt simply hiding it in deep space would have been a viable option for Mother "Earth" anyway. Besides, making news of the Chaos Kin public would've only increased the chances of Palutena and Hades targeting Arlon (likely to apprehend the Chaos Kin herself and to utilize the creature for his own plans, respectively), whereas the only reason the former suddenly decided to attack it was to force checkmate on the Forces of Nature.
    • I doubt Palutena would have tried to apprehend the Chaos Kin herself. It doesn't seem in character for her to have a pissing contest with such a dangerous entity.
  • Midway through Chapter 13, Arlon mentions that the true purpose of the lunar sanctum is "highly confidential" and that he's under an oath of silence, and because he's The Fettered, he intends to uphold that oath. He does try to work around his fetters, trying to dissuade Pit and Palutena from violence, vaguely affirming that the sanctum does indeed have a deeper purpose, and even revealing in advance that he's a Load-Bearing Boss, but between considering himself to not have the authority to actually spill the beans and also being under orders to defend the sanctum with violence, the boss fight becomes inevitable. Think of him as a Shadow Archetype of Pit's, showing what would happen if Pit ever really become absolutely obedient to Palutena.
  Arlon the Serene: [Mistress Viridi] said I mustn't let your attacks spread chaos HERE of all places. Before you cause a most unnatural harm, let us sit down for a chat.
• According to the Petrified Palutena idol, Palutena turned herself into stone so the Chaos Kin could only take her soul into the Chaos Vortex. Except that's exactly what it wants. Wouldn't giving the Chaos Kin her soul just make things easier for it?
  • It's probably bad translation, I think that taking her soul is what turned her to stone. Also, notice how she turns to stone AFTER it takes her soul.
    • Also, it seems that the "she turned her to stone" part...I think the "she" part was supposed to be "it" instead. Remember, this is a game made by the Smash Bros. team, which had pretty bad trophy descriptions...
    • She could have been trying to stop it from possessing her again.
    • Or stop the Chaos Kin from taking her, period.
    • I agree with the above. When the Chaos Kin took Pit's body, he rampaged for three years and probably killed hundreds of people, without his soul though, Pit's body was blank and empty. If the Chaos Kin had taken Palutena's body, it probably would have access to God-like power.
• The Reset Bomb Depot idol description states "While there were once three Reset Bomb Depots, all are eventually destroyed by enemies of the goddess Viridi". Who destroyed the other two?
  • It's most likely to be the Underworld forces.
• If the reason that Pit can continue after death is that Palutena brings him back to life, how is it that Pit was able to come back in the first game, when Palutena was captured? We know he did because Palutena mentions that he died a lot in the Underworld.
  • Maybe he had to climb out of the Underworld, like Kratos did.
  • OP here with an answer from the original game (well, the 3D Classic version)'s manual. Palutena was able to use her "magical strength" to give Pit his bow and arrow, so obviously Medusa was stupid enough to let her keep her powers while imprisoned.
    • Then if Medusa stopped Pit from getting the bow and arrows, we wouldn't have a game, and thus, no Uprising. And we don't want that, do we?
  • Also, the game has No Fourth Wall. While Pit might not have canonically died in the original game, Palutena would be aware that the people playing the game died.
    • Can you rephrase that? It reads more like you said that the players died. As in, in the real world.
  Palutena: I just can't imagine you in a melee.
  —>Pit: That's because I wasn't.
  • Um, wasn't Pit in Melee as a trophy?
    • Yeah, but he didn't fight.
    • I don't think they were referencing Super Smash Bros. if "melee" wasn't capitalized.
    • How else would it make sense?
    • They were 100% referencing Smash Bros. Pit doesn't count trophy cameos.
• Is this game's universe as geocentric, or even heliocentric, as the ancient Greeks believed the universe to be? Chapter 8 features an alien force that is stealing entire constellations, and it's depicted as a single vessel and an annoying obstacle in the way of the Three Sacred Treasures. Later in the game, an entire fleet of aliens shows up with intent to stripmine the planet, and this fight takes three chapters to resolve and forces an Enemy Mine situation between the god factions. One would think that a bunch of stars would take more resources to collect than a mere planet orbiting a single star, with or without factoring in resistance.
  • Does the game say constellations are made up of stars? Or that the sun is a type of star? Could easily be a universe where smaller lights in the sky are known as stars while large things that planets orbit that we call stars still exist.
  • The galactic sea isn't the entirety of outerspace, which can explain why the pirates are a minor nuisance while the Aurum horde are a big deal, but yes, compressing stars would seem to b more major than eating planets.
• Why does Viridi have such a massive fanbase, despite her rudeness and refusal to support humans at the end of the game, despite Pit having saved the world?
  • Most likely, they're all masochists.
    • Well, a few people say it's because she's funny, but frankly, I fail to see how physical/verbal abuse, even DEATH THREATS, are considered comedy gold.
    • Some people like Tsunderes.
    • So they like being insulted and beaten up? Wow. Just...wow.
  • One significant factor may be that she is never actually shown attacking any humans after the Reset Bomb Depot is destroyed. After that chapter, her generals are defeated despite spending more time dealing with non-human factions at the time, the Aurum stuff happens, and then three years pass offscreen. At that point, is there evidence that her war hasn't almost entirely stopped, even if she retains her opinions?
    • I'll NEVER like Viridi. Palutena FTW.
    • Palutena's hotter, sexier, and loves humanity (which we're part of, duh). Viridi on the other hand looks like she's 8 years old, a bitch, and wants to kill humanity (again, which we're part of). Who would you side with? (rhetorical question, btw, and inb4 "viridi has a point lol trolololo")
    • Thank God a sequel won't be made, I've had enough of seeing her fugly face.
    • Sorry about that last post, I was in a bad mood when I wrote it. I just find it incredibly bizarre that people actually agree with Viridi's motives on killing humans, when obviously they are human themselves.
    • In fairness, there's humans who do desire the species to stop existing (The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, for one). Some see what humanity does to the planet, and ourselves, and decide that the world would be better off without humanity (so that perhaps the next species to rise to our status won't be so destructive to Earth).
  • Because, like it or not, she's a fairly complex character. Yes, she hates humans, but remember that she follows a Blue-and-Orange Morality. The Reset Bombs are essentially secondary succession fastforwarded by a factor of several thousand; in her eyes, she's just speeding up what was going to happen anyway, which she thinks is completely different from humans killing each other with conventional weapons and explosives. Without Reset Bombs, her only option is outright violence against humans, which, by her aforementioned morality (although not any morality common to humans) is entirely different and wrong: thus, she becomes harmless. As for still hating humans at the end of the game, of course she isn't going to turn her opinion around 180 degrees so quickly; that's just not how people work, godly or otherwise. But it's obvious that she has grown attached to Pit (why else would she have helped him fly and set up an entire area for him to prepare for battle instead of sending Phosphora and a few more of her commanders to find and kill the Chaos Kin?), so even if/when she gets her Reset Bomb factory back up and running, she may find Pit and Palutena to be too important to her to risk their odd friendship. I can see her eventually being convinced to try to teach humans to act the way she desires them to instead of killing them... but this is veering into WMG territory, so I'll stop here.
  • Viridi does become nicer during the three year timeskip, if not necessarily nice. Perhaps the shocking turn around was enough to make fans forget about her more problematic traits. And while she doesn't personally suffer, her army takes quite the beating nonetheless.
  • Partly because Viridi is cute, short, Tsuntsun, and occasionally technically qualifies for Jerk with a Heart of Gold, but also partly because the game's plot is a little too frenetic for its own good and frequently glances over moral issues that should be examined closer (it's very easy to imagine that the Aurum arc deliberately getting in the way of Viridi's comeuppance and leaving her as The Unfought is an act of creator favoritism). With all the Mood Whiplash, Evil Is Hammy, and Never My Fault this game throws at you, it can be difficult for the audience to remember what these characters actually are guilty of.
  • What the fuck happened here? Honestly, some people probably like Viridi for the same reasons that some people like Vriska. And the thing is, I don't even read Homestuck! I just read posts about stuff like "Vriska did nothing wrong" and stuff like that and it's kinda like the Viridi stuff? Maybe?
• When Pit tries to accuse Hades of preventing souls from reincarnating by eating them, Hades makes a Strawman Has a Point speech where he claims that reincarnation is no different from being removed from existence since it takes away the souls' previous body, memories and experiences. Pit is momentarily unable to come up with a convincing counterargument other than pitifully proclaiming it to be wrong, as if what Hades was saying is so convincing he can't think of anything to say otherwise. Except, there are plenty of things he could have said that would show that Hades argument is full of shit. Like how being reincarnated is far more preferable than spending eternity being digested in an Evil God's stomach. OR that a person can learn new things and enjoy the wonders of life all over again. Or even that a reincarnated person still has the free will to choose his fate, while Hades forces the souls he hasn't eaten into becoming a part of his army. Heck, I would expect him to say that no matter what new life a person takes, his previous life is never completely forgotten and is always with him. There are so many things Pit could have said to shut Hades argument up, but instead all he says is "I... uh... Eating souls isn't right!"
  • Bad writing.
  • Its not bad writing as much as how dumb Pit is in general for coming up with a lame comeback. It's already amazing that Pit was able to have a comeback at Hades up until that point. Pit is usually really bad at coming up with arguments if it lasted long and it usually ends with Pit saying or doing something stupid that proves everyone's point. If it was any other character that wasn't Pit, they would have said that.
  • None of your arguments against it seems to work, at least in my opinion. Who says the souls spend eternity being digested? Pit even says they'll be removed from existence. As for your second point, as Hades says, once you're reincarnated, you have a different body, memories, and experiences; you're not really the same person any more. And finally, we're talking specifically about the souls Hades eats, not the ones he subjugates. The only valid argument you could make against eating souls depends on whether they're finite or not; if they're finite, eating them will lead to the eradication of all life. Of course, we don't know whether they're finite or infinite.
    • There's actually an implication for "infinite" — in the form of the Soul-Eating Monster. If you manage to kill it, the souls it's eaten are freed — meaning that Hades's death likely frees his eaten souls as well. Therefore, "removed from existence" could just be a term for "incapacitated from usual reincarnation."
    • In his defense, it can be hard to come up with a good comeback WHILE BEING PUMMELED BY ENEMIES LEFT AND RIGHT. Seriously, I've had to play through 0.0 until I unlocked the "no dialogue" option, the chattering was distracting me.
    • Even if you lose everything about the person you were before, you're still someone. You continue to live a life and experience things and have thoughts and feelings. That might not make it easier for anyone who knew you, but you're at least better off, even if you don't realize it.
• It's a bit surprising that after Viridi enters the conflict, the Aurum show up and Palutena's army apparently turns destructive, humanity is still able to survive against multiple hostile god factions with no allies for at least three years. Is Magnus really that awesome?
  • I suppose, though his weapon is absolute shit on higher intensities.
  • No, it's that the two of the three factions are fighting each other as much as humanity and the other one has put humanity on its back burner until one of those other two has been dealt with. Say there are lions, hyenas and leopards all hunting gazelle in the same forest. The gazelle are able to survive mainly because there are more predators than prey and the predators are not a united front.
• Is it me, or did they make the Viridi weapons far too OP?
  • It's you. The Aurum Orbitars and Palm, on the other hand...
• So wait, Pit himself always takes a bath fully-clothed, but his first instinct on seeing Magnus enter a hot spring during the chapter where you possess Magnus is "remove pants"?
  • Maybe it's part of the angelic code of conduct to not wear pants when bathing. Since Pit on his regular body doesn't wear pants, he's good to go.
  • He states that "this is how you enjoy a hot spring" before listing "remove pants" as Step 3. He's probably trying to share his experience with hot springs with Magnus on the assumption that his human companion doesn't get the opportunity as often as Pit does. We also never see Pit actually bathing, just soaking for a moment to regain his strength, so for all we know he does remove his outfit or dress differently when he has an opportunity to take his time and enjoy the spring.

• Where does Pit get his weapon for the air section of chapter 18? I mean, if you have either a Magnus Club, Some sort of palm or a darkness bow equipped, I get where the weapon would have come from. (Magnus for the club, the tattoos for the palms just might not have been removed during Pit's time spent in that ring and the darkness bow could have just been looted from Pit's body as that's the weapon Pit's body was using. Anything else = WHERE THE FUCK DID YOU GET THAT?!?!?!?
  • Viridi.
  • The nature of Pit's weapons is not really touched upon, (why don't they fall off when he's eggplant-morphed etc.), so far all we know they could have been packed into gems or otherwise compressed.
• In Chapter 23, how is Pit able to use the powers? Hades said that his stomach is made of steel, and if Palutina can't even talk to.him, how can she use divine powers to heal him, give him a laser, etc.
  • I'm pretty sure she just equips them for Pit, rather than actually being the one who activates them. How else does one explain the Fighters all being able to use Powers and such if Palutena is the one who activates them all?

• In Chapter 21, Pit's wings burn up, leaving him in bad shape. In the following chapter, Palutena has Dark Pit take him to the Rewind Spring to save his life and regain his wings. Viridi criticizes Palutena for trying to cheat death and revive the dead and etc. But isn't Palutena the one who revives Pit every time he's finished? Why is his wings such a big deal, and why is Viridi giving Palutena so much grief when she does this all the time?
  • If we were to take what Medusa said in Chapter 9 literally, that she would "sever him from the heavens" by stripping him of his wings, then it's possible that Palutena really can't restore his wings because he's been cut off from her, and the Rewind Spring is the only way to save him because it reestablishes his link to Palutena.
  • Pit wasn't dead, or finished yet, he was in a coma. Apparently too damaged for Palutena's healing to fix(which is plausible, healing of all kinds doesn't take effect in crisis mode until it has passed) but not dead enough to be revived(since crisis, effect and stamina recovery only work under those exact circumstances, it's consistent if "revive dead/finished" can't be used as a substitute for healing). So unless something like Rewind Spring is used the only other way is to wait while Pit suffers. It's not only out of pity for Pit, but Pit is a valuable asset in the fight against the Underworld. All Dark Pit has to do is fight some monsters, a quick fix. It's just that there were some unexpected complications that made it take a little bit longer than expected. As for Viridi? She may have gotten nicer in three years, but she remains a jerk who can't help but talk down to others.
• Viridi is a child, right? And therefore in no position to launch a genocidal campaign against anyone, let alone humans. So where are her parents to provide punishment? At the very least either Phosphora and/or Arlon shouldn't be enabling her brashness, but rather discouraging it.
  • Viridi is a goddess. While she takes the form of a child, it's not her true form, and thus, not reflective of her true age.
    • That was never confirmed in game as such my question stands!
    • She said herself that she's immortal????????

• During the fight against the Aurum Brain, Pyrrhon says he's been spending his time on divinipedia, to which Pit replies that he wants the link. Not mere minutes later, Pit screams "I never learned how to read!". How was he planning on looking at divinipedia then?
  • One of those computer programs that read text aloud?
  • Telepathic communication? We're never told that he has to "look" at it.
    • I think as long as someone reads the information to Pit, then he'll be able to "read". After all, it's not out of character to think that Pit will act like he can read in front of everyone and not know how to read the alphabet (whatever the language was in this universe.)
  • He might have also been joking about wanting the link, or simply intended to look at it after he learns to read, if he ever intends to do that.
  • Or he just wanted to verify that it exists and Pyrrhon wasn't making stuff up.
  • Pit's also captain of the Icarus Army. During some downtime he can ask a grunt to read it for him.
  • Given that Divinipedia is a divine construct, who says it stores information in textual form at all? Maybe it records knowledge in a magical way that humans can't comprehend, such that one doesn't need to be able to read to access it.
• Shouldn't it be called the "Exo Chariot"?'
  • Because Exo Tank sounds cooler.
• So is it ever explained how Dark Pit's wings are *better* than Pit's? Dark Pit still lacks any inherent power of flight, but once he robs Pandora's corpse for that power, his wings are never at risk of burning up.