History VideoGame / KnightsOfTheOldRepublicIITheSithLords

* WomenAreWiser: [[ZigZaggingTrope Zig-zagged]]. [[EvilMentor Kreia]] is arguably the wisest character in the game, despite her [[ManipulativeBastard obvious ulterior motives]] [[spoiler:and status as the game's BigBad]]. You can tell by her high wisdom score and her many twistedly cynical but ultimately true life lessons. On the other hand, we have [[KnightTemplar Atris]], who's one of the biggest [[{{Hypocrite}} hypocrites]] in the entire [[{{Franchise/StarWars}} franchise]].

* AnAesop:
** [[OldMaster Kreia]] provides several throughout the game that serve to deconstruct the typical morality system of [=RPGs=] and the ''Franchise/StarWars'' franchise in general. It should be noted that she is a ConsummateLiar, ManipulativeBastard and [[spoiler:the true BigBad]], so it would be wise not to take everything she says completely at face value.
*** She mentions that solving someone else's problems for them will strengthen you but weaken them. If you want someone to be the best person they can be, you should let them solve their problems on their own so that the experience from the victory will make them even stronger in the long run.
*** Regardless of your intentions, all actions have consequences. Analyze the entire situation, think things through, and make sure you have as much information as possible before you make a choice.
*** Even {{Old Master}}s can be wrong and make dumb decisions. Zez-Kai-Ell admits that casting out The Exile instead of trying to understand their choice resulted in a missed opportunity to find flaws in the Jedi teachings. Atris made a reckless move that caused [[spoiler: the destruction of Katarr, which is the [[NiceJobBreakingItHero main reason that the Jedi are on the verge of extinction]]]].
*** Apathy helps no one, especially when both sides in a war request your aid. The right thing to do in a conflict is to take a side so that the problem will end quicker. The Jedi Masters that went into hiding resulted in the galaxy undergoing no improvement at best, and at worst, their absence made things even worse. Doing nothing may even cause everyone to turn on ''[[NeutralityBacklash you]].'' This is best shown during the vision in the Sith tomb on Korriban.
---->'''Vision Kreia:''' Your "friends" are all arrayed against me. Will you stand for this?\\
'''The Exile:''' [[BystanderSyndrome I think I'll just stand back and watch.]]\\
'''Vision Kreia:''' So [[WhatTheHellHero you will do nothing]]? Apathy is death. Worse than death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds the beasts and insects.
** In addition to the many that Kreia gives, a general theme and takedown of religious dogmatism runs throughout the story. Ultimately, the average galactic citizen doesn't care much for the distinction between the Jedi and the Sith; they're both a bunch of religiously fundamentalist, laser-sword wielding space wizards who have more than once just within the last few decades torn whole worlds apart and sacrificed the safety of the galaxy just to see who can win their philosophical pissing-match. [[spoiler:The fact that Atris is willing to sacrifice more moderatly minded Jedi just so she can make the Order more like her KnightTemplar philosophy shows that the difference between a Jedi and a Sith can sometimes simply be academic, and Darth Traya's plan to destroy the Force is less about typical Sith villainy and more about trying to free the galaxy from what she sees as an inscrutable entity that ordains the pointless deaths of many and fecklessly empowers a chosen few without giving them any real guiding direction on what to ''do'' with that power (even if such a plan would likely kill a vast majority of the galaxy in the process of bringing about her paradigm shift.]] In summary, religious dogmatism serves no one, especially not the people who are caught up in dogmatic beliefs that blind them to the actual points that their critics and detractors are trying to make.

* SecretTestOfCharacter: Kreia can offer to teach a Dark-sided Exile about strength after Hanharr joins the party. By getting to know Hanharr more, the Exile understands that personal willpower is far greater than physical strength. Kreia offers to let the Exile use this willpower to draw on Hanharr's strength, which offers a bonus to Strength and Constitution and some experience. [[spoiler:But if you decline this offer, you draw the conclusion that the only strength you can rely on is your own, which is the true lesson of strength that Kreia is trying to teach. This decision gives a Wisdom bonus, extra Influence with Kreia, and a larger experience bonus.]]

* ShaggyDogStory: The Exile's trip to Korriban to find Master Vash. [[spoiler: After braving the ruins of the Sith Academy, solving multiple puzzles and killing many beasts and assassins along the way, you finally gain access to the final room in the temple...and find Vash's dead body: She'd been captured by Sion to lure you in and was murdered shortly after you arrived. The entire endeavor was just an elaborate trap to get you killed. It's even worse if one has the M4-78 Restoration mod installed; there, you find Master Vash alive, only for M4-78 to kill her for no obvious reason within a few minutes, provided the Exile didn't do the job first.]]

* BrokenBridge: In theory, you can use the galaxy map on the ''Ebon Hawk'' to travel to any planet you wish at any time. In practice, however, half of the worlds you visit will conspire to ensure that you can't leave until you've fulfilled all story-related quests, typically by stealing, shooting down or otherwise grounding your ship and forcing you to find an alternate means of transportation. This is especially flagrant on Telos, where your first ship is stolen and your next one is shot down almost as soon as you take off. {{Lampshade|Hanging}}d by Atton in the Restored Content mod the second time it happens on Telos.

* MarathonLevel: Nar Shaddaa's endgame triggers once you get enough favour or infamy with the Exchange to initiate a meeting with them. This sets you on a one-way track to the completion of the planet, taking control of various party members across the area when the meeting inevitably goes south, and no opportunity to turn back to the Ebon Hawk until it is done. The Restored Content Mod also adds in a few more battles with waves of bounty hunters on the way to make this segment longer.

* NostalgiaLevel: The Dantooine, Korriban and ''Ravager'' levels all have characters remarking on events or characters from the first game.

** HK-47 mocks Carth and Bastila's [[StrangledByTheRedString romantic subplots]] with the PC of the first game. HK-47 then says that is not the case with the second game's companions, with one of the options that the player can respond with being "[[SelfDeprecation Uh...right]]." [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr81SliHytA Starts at 2:24]].

** The [[spoiler:Sith Holocrons]] that Atris is keeping in her meditation chamber. What a great idea ''that'' was.

* AntiVillain: [[spoiler:Kreia[=/=]Darth Traya]] who, depending on interpretation, wanted to free the galaxy from the tyranny of [[spoiler:the Force]] or to rebuild [[spoiler:the Jedi Order]] without the baggage of the past. ''[[ConsummateLiar Maybe.]]'' Revan is also characterized like this in this game: a Jedi who wanted to fight off an unstoppable invading army against the wishes of an overly cautious and callous Jedi Council and did so with extreme success before giving into the temptation for power. [[spoiler:Kreia presents the idea that it was in fact a GenghisGambit by Revan. He fought the Mandalorians because the Jedi would not, then turned to the dark side to control the Star Forge and turn on the Republic so that they would be ready to face future threats when they came.]]

** There's also the Exile and Darth Nihilus, though some of the differences are merely hinted at. The Exile is a charismatic FatherToHisMen who easily befriends people, fights together with them, and [[spoiler:became a black hole in the Force when they were forced to sever their connection to it after losing several thousand at Malachor V]]. Nihilus is a faceless EldritchAbomination who doesn't command or work with people so much as he completely dominates them through pure strength, and has no care for them beyond what use they have to him; [[spoiler:it's heavily implied he was in a similar situation to the Exile, but chose to fill the void left in the Force by [[LifeDrain actively feeding off of the energies of others]]. One of the tricks you can use to beat him when you finally confront him is to exploit this, by tricking him into trying to feed on the Exile, which only weaks him because there's technically nothing there to feed on.]]
* ForWantOfANail: Kreia's frequent lectures about "creating echoes" are based on this trope -- one small decision, even choice to not act, can set forth a chain of events that produce larger sweeping effects, whether intended or not.

---->'''Vision!Kreia:''' Your "friends" are all arrayed against me. Will you stand for this?\\

'''Vision!Kreia:''' So [[WhatTheHellHero you will do nothing]]? Apathy is death. Worse than death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds the beasts and insects.

* ArmorPiercingQuestion: "What kind of life have you lived with the Force flowing through you? Was it worth living?" [[spoiler:Delivered by the Exile to Darth Sion after defeating him on Malachor V, to point out that despite using the Force to extend his own lifespan and endurance beyond mortal limits, he has not done anything of worth with his life and has only spent his time inflicting pointless pain on himself and everyone around him.]]

* AllThereInTheManual: The Sith Triumvirate, the name of the Sith faction that is hunting down The Exile, is never mentioned in the game, but it is revealed supplementary materials.

* ClothingConcealedInjury: If you play a male Exile, Kreia, being the DirtyOldWoman she is, starts [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzQLGL0SNzo prodding Male Exile about whether Visas Marr is unscarred under her concealing robes or if her body bears the scars of slavery]] under Nihilus, and then starts speculating which one would "excite" him more.

** Bao-Dur's MachineEmpathy turns out to be the way his Force gift manifests, but he also makes remarks about Telos's surface being "calming" and able to sense the alignment changes in Exile for good or ill.
** Atton is a Spoileriffic case. [[spoiler: He already knows he's a Sensitive by the time he meets Exile, but has been trying to hide it. The way he found out was because he was very good at masking himself in the Force with strong emotions and became a talented Jedi killer/torturer. His last victim warned him that his superiors were on the cusp of discovering it. Atton manually strangled her to death and ran.]]

** Even better, the game recognises this as you saving the refugee - meaning this gets you ''light side influence points'' from some companions! Bao-Dur's response comes off as... quite missing the point:
--> '''Bao Dur''': "That was a kind act! It is good to see that one can still show compassion, even after the war."

** When Atton starts complaining after being led onto a ship full of Sith Assassins, the Exile can sarcastically reply "[[Film/StarWarsANewHope Maybe you'd like it back in your cell?]]" Also, when you touch down on Dantooine and speak with the administrator, one of the dialogue options is "I came in that ship, yes."

** Towards the end of the game, the Mandalorians help you stage an assault on an enemy ship. The scene is staged and shot similarly to the beginning of ''Film/ANewHope'' where the rebels (in this case, Sith Troopers) mount a defense at a bulkhead against boarding Stormtroopers. Up until it goes OffTheRails when instead of coming in through the door, the Mandalorians ''[[spoiler:blast in through the wall]].''

** [=HK-47=] and [=T3-M4=] have a much clearer ThoseTwoGuys dynamic than in the original game, akin to that of [=C-3PO=] and [=R2-D2=] - but with the vitriol cranked up to eleven, with the two outright threatening violence on one another with startling frequency.
** Mira and Hanharr are explicitly trying to kill one another for a number of reasons, though their status as MutuallyExclusivePartyMembers means it's downplayed somewhat.

* EldritchAbomination: Darth Nihilus. He eats entire ''worlds'' when he is hungry. [[spoiler: Also, the Jedi Council thinks the Exile is one. Depending on your alignment, they may or may not be right.]]

* EvilKnockoff: The HK-50s are more like evil''er'' knockoffs. [[spoiler: Potentially the HK-51s, according to unused voice clips.]]

* ExperiencePoints: Deconstructed[=/=]lampshaded. A conversation near the end of the game has someone commenting on how the Exile seems to become stronger every time they kill enemies.

*** In keeping with the game’s darkly deconstructive spin on the Star Wars universe, Kreia is a more sinister version of Obi-Wan (and thus Jolee Bindo), wearing the classic brown robes and even having a somewhat similar cadence when she speaks. Atton is a pilot and scoundrel like Han Solo, and even starts off wearing a vest and white shirt that are clearly intended to cultivate this impression [[spoiler:the better to unbalance the player when Atton’s DarkAndTroubledPast is revealed]]. Hanharr is a twisted version of Chewbacca, Zaalbar, and the whole life-debt tradition. Goto [[spoiler:or rather G0-T0]] is a gangster like Jabba the Hutt, but with the shiny black chassis of his droid, his hatchet-faced hologram, and his distorted mechanical voice, the character evokes something of Vader, Tarkin, and the [[RoboticTortureDevice IT-O Interrogation droid]] on the first Death Star.
** Many characters also seem designed to [[SpiritualSuccessor further explore]] concepts the devs created in ''VideoGame/PlanescapeTorment'', back when they were still Creator/BlackIsle:
*** The party includes not one but two blind female magic users like Mebbeth, Ei-Vene, and Marta the Seamstress, not one but two floating [[NonHumanSidekick non-human sidekicks]] a la Morte, and [[RuleOfThree not one but]] ''[[RuleOfThree three]]'' quirky robots out to assert their independence and free will like Nordom.

*** Atris is a woman in white from your past who hates you for what you’ve done, yet can’t quite put aside her feelings for you, or forget what you had. Almost a combination of Deionarra and Fall-From-Grace, though rather than a succubus trying to atone for her past, Atris is more akin to a paladin [[LightIsNotGood on the verge of falling]]. Her name is also an anagram for Trias. [[spoiler:Like the fallen angel, Atris falls into darkness [[WellIntentionedExtremist while trying to do the right thing]] in [[ShootTheDog the most ruthless way possible]]. Trias's full title in ''Torment'' is [[TheMagnificent Trias the Betrayer]], while Atris may become the new Darth Traya, Sith Lord of Betrayal, in the restored content.]]

** [[spoiler:Kreia]] talks of this, stating that "There must always be a Darth Traya." It's more a reference to cut content than anything else, however - [[spoiler:specifically, the fact that in the original plan, it was possible for either Kreia to resume being Darth Traya, or for ''Atris'' to take up the mantle]].

!!The Sith Lords provide examples of:

[[folder:Tropes A-H]]

* GainaxEnding: The game has it in spades, mainly due to the game being [[ChristmasRushed rushed for release]]. Various pieces of cut content and explanations from the developers make it more coherent. [[spoiler:Your companions (save Bao-Dur, who sacrificed himself on Telos) were to slowly gather together after the crash on Malachor V, with each one getting a playable segment that determines whether they live or die, followed by scenes of the survivors' interactions. Most of these were never completed, but two mostly-finished ones remain buried in the game files - one sees the Exile's {{love interest}}s turning on each other in the Dark Side path, while the other has the surviving Jedi-trained characters confront Kreia in the Light Side path. After Kreia's death, you tell everyone who survived that you have to leave them behind and follow Revan's path, but Atton - assuming he survived - still makes an offer of company, which the Exile silently accepts.]]

[[folder:Tropes I-P]]

[[folder:Tropes Q-Z]]

** You face far fewer Force users across the game compared to the prequel, so Force Suppression, Force Breach, Force Resistance and Force Immunity are incredibly situational. Immunity to Fear and Horror become situational perks for this reason as well.

* MortonsFork: A notable one for both the player and background whilst on Nar Shaddaa. Early on, you are asked for money by a beggar. You can give him some or deny him. In both situations, Kreia will ask why you did either - if you gave him money, you make him a target of resentment, and the beggar gets mugged. If you didn't, you make the beggar angry and frustrated, leading to him mugging someone else. Both choices will tend to lead to a negative approval from Kreia, unless you chose exactly the right conversation options with her. (Hint: Just tell her you'll think about what she said.)

** Atton is a {{Spoileriffic}} case. [[spoiler: He already knows he's a Sensitive by the time he meets Exile, but has been trying to hide it. The way he found out was because he was very good at masking himself in the Force with strong emotions and a talented Jedi killer/torturer. His last victim warned him that his superiors were on the cusp of discovering it. Atton manually strangled her to death and ran.]]