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* [[Characters/BatmanTwoFace Two-Face]] came from an era where most ''Batman'' villains were little more than gangsters with gimmicks, and Batman's abilities weren't much greater than those of, say, ComicStrip/DickTracy. As the stories grew DarkerAndEdgier and HollywoodPsych became a theme, he was given a further twist of his duality representing a SplitPersonality, and [[WeUsedToBeFriends having a personal connection to Batman]], which solidified him as a big player. However, throughout all this time, his capabilities remained largely static, even as those of Batman and the other iconic rogues started to creep up. Modern Two-Face doesn't have any powers to fight Batman, he isn't an overt BadassNormal that could hold a fight against Batman, he isn't a supergenius, he doesn't use any piece of technology, magical artifact or other paraphernalia that could give him an advantage, he's rarely depicted as anything more than a middle-ranking crime boss (TheDon usually tends to be the Penguin or Black Mask), he doesn't command a particularly imposing army like the League of Assassins or 99 Fiends, he isn't insanely rich, he isn't a VillainWithGoodPublicity or anything like that (he used to be a prominent lawyer, but lost all of that from the tragic accident that turned him into a supervillain) and he isn't the type of villain to have powerful allies like the Legion of Doom or the Secret Society of Supervillains (he isn't even that big of a team player inside Gotham City). His only niche is being tied to Batman's past and demonstrating how the struggles of a good man to clean up Gotham can sometimes fail. Yet despite all this, comics like ''Comicbook/BatmanTheLongHalloween'' and movies like ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' or ''Film/BatmanForever'' mean he's too iconic to be anything less than an A-lister, despite the great power imbalance existing between him and Batman.

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* [[Characters/BatmanTwoFace Two-Face]] came from an era where most ''Batman'' villains were little more than gangsters with gimmicks, and Batman's abilities weren't much greater than those of, say, ComicStrip/DickTracy. As the stories grew DarkerAndEdgier and HollywoodPsych became a theme, he was given a further twist of his duality representing a SplitPersonality, and [[WeUsedToBeFriends having a personal connection to Batman]], which solidified him as a big player. However, throughout all this time, his capabilities remained largely static, even as those of Batman and the other iconic rogues started to creep up. upward. Modern Two-Face doesn't have any powers to fight Batman, he isn't an overt BadassNormal that could hold a fight against Batman, can match Batman in hand-to-hand, he isn't a supergenius, he doesn't use any piece of technology, magical artifact artifact, or other paraphernalia that could give him an advantage, he's rarely depicted as anything more than a middle-ranking crime boss (TheDon usually tends to be the Penguin or Black Mask), he doesn't command a particularly imposing army like the League of Assassins or the 99 Fiends, he isn't insanely rich, he isn't a VillainWithGoodPublicity or anything like that (he used to be a prominent lawyer, but lost all of that from the tragic accident that turned him into a supervillain) and he isn't the type of villain to have powerful allies like the Legion of Doom or the Secret Society of Supervillains (he isn't even that big of a team player inside Gotham City). His only niche is being tied to Batman's past and demonstrating how the struggles of a good man to clean up Gotham can sometimes fail.fail, and even much of that niche is confined to his origin story. Yet despite all this, comics like ''Comicbook/BatmanTheLongHalloween'' and movies like ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' or ''Film/BatmanForever'' mean he's too iconic to be anything less than an A-lister, despite the great power imbalance existing between him and Batman.
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tbh, i don't see it. this feels like someone stretching a handful of comics into a long-running rivalry, when most two-face stories tend to focus purely on him and batman—or alternatively, pitching a potential idea for how to rework him. two-face hasn't been the guy who killed jason's parents since at least the new 52 era, for instance.


* [[Characters/BatmanTwoFace Two-Face]] came from an era where most ''Batman'' villains were little more than gangsters with gimmicks, and Batman's abilities weren't much greater than those of, say, ComicStrip/DickTracy. As the stories grew DarkerAndEdgier and HollywoodPsych became a theme, he was given a further twist of his duality representing a SplitPersonality, and [[WeUsedToBeFriends having a personal connection to Batman]], which solidified him as a big player. However, throughout all this time, his capabilities remained largely static, even as those of Batman and the other iconic rogues started to creep up. Modern Two-Face doesn't have any powers to fight Batman, he isn't an overt BadassNormal that could hold a fight against Batman, he isn't a supergenius, he doesn't use any piece of technology, magical artifact or other paraphernalia that could give him an advantage, he's rarely depicted as anything more than a middle-ranking crime boss (TheDon usually tends to be the Penguin or Black Mask), he doesn't command a particularly imposing army like the League of Assassins or 99 Fiends, he isn't insanely rich, he isn't a VillainWithGoodPublicity or anything like that (he used to be a prominent lawyer, but lost all of that from the tragic accident that turned him into a supervillain) and he isn't the type of villain to have powerful allies like the Legion of Doom or the Secret Society of Supervillains (He isn't even that big of a team player inside Gotham City). His only niche is being tied to Batman's past and demonstrating how the struggles of a good man to clean up Gotham can sometimes fail. Yet despite all this, comics like ''Comicbook/BatmanTheLongHalloween'' and movies like ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' or ''Film/BatmanForever'' mean he's too iconic to be anything less than an A-lister, despite the great power imbalance existing between him and Batman. His encounters with most incarnations of Robin, on the other hand, strike a greater balance in power (by way of the Robins being less experienced) and give him more of a presence in the story as a personal ArchEnemy of them, courtesy of nearly killing Dick Grayson and Tim Drake, and his role in the deaths of Jason Todd's parents [[AdaptationOriginConnection Post-Crisis]].

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* [[Characters/BatmanTwoFace Two-Face]] came from an era where most ''Batman'' villains were little more than gangsters with gimmicks, and Batman's abilities weren't much greater than those of, say, ComicStrip/DickTracy. As the stories grew DarkerAndEdgier and HollywoodPsych became a theme, he was given a further twist of his duality representing a SplitPersonality, and [[WeUsedToBeFriends having a personal connection to Batman]], which solidified him as a big player. However, throughout all this time, his capabilities remained largely static, even as those of Batman and the other iconic rogues started to creep up. Modern Two-Face doesn't have any powers to fight Batman, he isn't an overt BadassNormal that could hold a fight against Batman, he isn't a supergenius, he doesn't use any piece of technology, magical artifact or other paraphernalia that could give him an advantage, he's rarely depicted as anything more than a middle-ranking crime boss (TheDon usually tends to be the Penguin or Black Mask), he doesn't command a particularly imposing army like the League of Assassins or 99 Fiends, he isn't insanely rich, he isn't a VillainWithGoodPublicity or anything like that (he used to be a prominent lawyer, but lost all of that from the tragic accident that turned him into a supervillain) and he isn't the type of villain to have powerful allies like the Legion of Doom or the Secret Society of Supervillains (He (he isn't even that big of a team player inside Gotham City). His only niche is being tied to Batman's past and demonstrating how the struggles of a good man to clean up Gotham can sometimes fail. Yet despite all this, comics like ''Comicbook/BatmanTheLongHalloween'' and movies like ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' or ''Film/BatmanForever'' mean he's too iconic to be anything less than an A-lister, despite the great power imbalance existing between him and Batman. His encounters with most incarnations of Robin, on the other hand, strike a greater balance in power (by way of the Robins being less experienced) and give him more of a presence in the story as a personal ArchEnemy of them, courtesy of nearly killing Dick Grayson and Tim Drake, and his role in the deaths of Jason Todd's parents [[AdaptationOriginConnection Post-Crisis]].
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* Franchise/{{Superman}}:

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* Franchise/{{Superman}}:''ComicBook/{{Superman}}'':



** Similarly, Supergirl wears a skirt because the costumes of female heroes like [[ComicBook/{{Shazam}} Mary Marvel]] were inspired by female ice-skaters early on. As this influence began fading, skirt-wearing heroines became increasingly uncommon, but Supergirl goes on wearing one because it's become her iconic look.
** In the Bronze Age, Brainiac's skull-shaped starship was modeled after Brainiac's head in his Skele-Bot phase. While Brainiac would go back to his older green-skinned appearance, the design of his ship stuck.
** Jonathan Carroll, Lois Lane's boyfriend in the ''ComicBook/New52'' rarely had any bearing on the ''Superman'' stories and was only there to show that Lois already had a boyfriend, to the point he disappeared for entire story arcs. By the end of the ''New 52'', it was clear the writers had no idea what to do with him, so they eventually wrote him off altogether.
* A lot of things in the Franchise/WonderWoman mythos probably count as this at one point or another:

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** Similarly, Supergirl wears a skirt because the costumes of female heroes like [[ComicBook/{{Shazam}} Captain Marvel]]'s sister Mary Marvel]] were inspired by female ice-skaters early on. As this influence began fading, skirt-wearing heroines became increasingly uncommon, but Supergirl goes on wearing one because it's become her iconic look.
** In the Bronze Age, 1983 storyline ''ComicBook/BrainiacRebirth'', Brainiac's skull-shaped starship was modeled after Brainiac's head in his Skele-Bot phase. While Brainiac would go back to his older green-skinned appearance, the design of his ship stuck.
** Jonathan Carroll, Lois Lane's boyfriend in the ''ComicBook/New52'' ''ComicBook/ActionComicsNew52'' and ''ComicBook/SupermanNew52'' rarely had any bearing on the ''Superman'' stories and was only there to show that Lois already had a boyfriend, to the point he disappeared for entire story arcs. By the end of the ''New 52'', relaunch, it was clear the writers had no idea what to do with him, so they eventually wrote him off altogether.
* A lot of things in the Franchise/WonderWoman mythos probably count as this at one point or another:''ComicBook/WonderWoman'':
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* [[Characters/BatmanTwoFace Two-Face]] came from an era where most ''Batman'' villains were little more than gangsters with gimmicks, and Batman's abilities weren't much greater than those of, say, ComicStrip/DickTracy. As the stories grew DarkerAndEdgier and HollywoodPsych became a theme, he was given a further twist of his duality representing a SplitPersonality, and [[WeUsedToBeFriends having a personal connection to Batman]], which solidified him as a big player. However, throughout all this time, his capabilities remained largely static, even as those of Batman and the other iconic rogues started to creep up. Modern Two-Face doesn't have any powers to fight Batman, he isn't an especially BadassNormal, he isn't some supergenius, he doesn't use any piece of technology that could give him an advantage, he's rarely depicted as anything more than a middle-ranking crime boss (TheDon usually tends to be the Penguin or Black Mask), he isn't insanely rich, and he isn't a VillainWithGoodPublicity or anything like that (he used to be a prominent lawyer, but lost all of that from the tragic accident that turned him into a supervillain). His only niche is being tied to Batman's past and demonstrating how the struggles of a good man to clean up Gotham can sometimes fail. Yet despite all this, comics like ''Comicbook/BatmanTheLongHalloween'' and movies like ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' or ''Film/BatmanForever'' mean he's too iconic to be anything less than an A-lister, despite the great power imbalance existing between him and Batman. His encounters with most incarnations of Robin, on the other hand, strike a greater balance in power (by way of the Robins being less experienced) and give him more of a presence in the story as a personal ArchEnemy of them, courtesy of nearly killing Dick Grayson and Tim Drake, and his role in the deaths of Jason Todd's parents [[AdaptationOriginConnection Post-Crisis]].

to:

* [[Characters/BatmanTwoFace Two-Face]] came from an era where most ''Batman'' villains were little more than gangsters with gimmicks, and Batman's abilities weren't much greater than those of, say, ComicStrip/DickTracy. As the stories grew DarkerAndEdgier and HollywoodPsych became a theme, he was given a further twist of his duality representing a SplitPersonality, and [[WeUsedToBeFriends having a personal connection to Batman]], which solidified him as a big player. However, throughout all this time, his capabilities remained largely static, even as those of Batman and the other iconic rogues started to creep up. Modern Two-Face doesn't have any powers to fight Batman, he isn't an especially BadassNormal, overt BadassNormal that could hold a fight against Batman, he isn't some a supergenius, he doesn't use any piece of technology technology, magical artifact or other paraphernalia that could give him an advantage, he's rarely depicted as anything more than a middle-ranking crime boss (TheDon usually tends to be the Penguin or Black Mask), he doesn't command a particularly imposing army like the League of Assassins or 99 Fiends, he isn't insanely rich, and he isn't a VillainWithGoodPublicity or anything like that (he used to be a prominent lawyer, but lost all of that from the tragic accident that turned him into a supervillain).supervillain) and he isn't the type of villain to have powerful allies like the Legion of Doom or the Secret Society of Supervillains (He isn't even that big of a team player inside Gotham City). His only niche is being tied to Batman's past and demonstrating how the struggles of a good man to clean up Gotham can sometimes fail. Yet despite all this, comics like ''Comicbook/BatmanTheLongHalloween'' and movies like ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' or ''Film/BatmanForever'' mean he's too iconic to be anything less than an A-lister, despite the great power imbalance existing between him and Batman. His encounters with most incarnations of Robin, on the other hand, strike a greater balance in power (by way of the Robins being less experienced) and give him more of a presence in the story as a personal ArchEnemy of them, courtesy of nearly killing Dick Grayson and Tim Drake, and his role in the deaths of Jason Todd's parents [[AdaptationOriginConnection Post-Crisis]].
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** In general, [[CardCarryingVillain teams with names like]] [[ComicBook/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica the Society of Supervillains, the Injustice Gang]] or [[ComicBook/DoomPatrol the Brotherhood of Evil]] are all rather nonesensical since they aren't even teams composed by {{Card Carrying Villain}}s, but they have [[NarmCharm a unique ring to them]] that gets lost when trying to rename them.
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** In UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Superman had a lot of spin-off characters like ComicBook/{{Supergirl}} and Krypto the Superdog, and odd powers like Super-ventriloquism. Throughout [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks the Bronze Age]] Superman's derivative characters, weird powers, and even aspects of the lore such like the PhantomZone, [[BizarroUniverse Bizarro World]] and the different colors of Kryptonite became perceived as severely outdated, which led to their removal when Superman was rebooted in 1986. Nonetheless, DC spent [[UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks the whole Dark Age]] trying and failing to replace them adequately, and after one decade and half they were again regarded as fresh and valuable additions, so they were reintroduced.

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** In UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks MediaNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Superman had a lot of spin-off characters like ComicBook/{{Supergirl}} and Krypto the Superdog, and odd powers like Super-ventriloquism. Throughout [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks [[MediaNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks the Bronze Age]] Superman's derivative characters, weird powers, and even aspects of the lore such like the PhantomZone, [[BizarroUniverse Bizarro World]] and the different colors of Kryptonite became perceived as severely outdated, which led to their removal when Superman was rebooted in 1986. Nonetheless, DC spent [[UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks [[MediaNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks the whole Dark Age]] trying and failing to replace them adequately, and after one decade and half they were again regarded as fresh and valuable additions, so they were reintroduced.



** ComicBook/SteveTrevor was, notionally, Diana's love interest, but from the 50s onward nobody could really get much of a read on him; he was killed off at least twice in the [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver]] and [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks Bronze]] ages, and revived both times largely because writers assumed he must have some kind of role in the comics. The 1987 reboot aged him and did away with him as Diana's love interest, marrying him to another character; subsequent debate about the character has revolved around whether or not his old position should be restored, but quite a few fans see no reason to. Completely averted as of the ''ComicBook/{{New 52}}'' and ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'', however, where Trevor has been upgraded to being the DCU's version of ComicBook/NickFury.

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** ComicBook/SteveTrevor was, notionally, Diana's love interest, but from the 50s onward nobody could really get much of a read on him; he was killed off at least twice in the [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks [[MediaNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver]] and [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks [[MediaNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks Bronze]] ages, and revived both times largely because writers assumed he must have some kind of role in the comics. The 1987 reboot aged him and did away with him as Diana's love interest, marrying him to another character; subsequent debate about the character has revolved around whether or not his old position should be restored, but quite a few fans see no reason to. Completely averted as of the ''ComicBook/{{New 52}}'' and ''ComicBook/DCRebirth'', however, where Trevor has been upgraded to being the DCU's version of ComicBook/NickFury.



* The ''ComicBook/LegionOfSuperHeroes'' has a group called the Legion of Super-Villains. This sort of [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] name would never be used nowadays (since nobody thinks of themselves as villains), but is so closely associated with the group that it can't be changed in the comic. (The [[WesternAnimation/LegionOfSuperHeroes cartoon]] used '''L'''ight '''S'''peed '''V'''anguard.)

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* The ''ComicBook/LegionOfSuperHeroes'' has a group called the Legion of Super-Villains. This sort of [[UsefulNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks [[MediaNotes/TheSilverAgeOfComicBooks Silver Age]] name would never be used nowadays (since nobody thinks of themselves as villains), but is so closely associated with the group that it can't be changed in the comic. (The [[WesternAnimation/LegionOfSuperHeroes cartoon]] used '''L'''ight '''S'''peed '''V'''anguard.)
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* [[Characters/BatmanTwoFace Two-Face]] came from an era where most ''Batman'' villains were little more than gangsters with gimmicks, and Batman's abilities weren't much greater than those of, say, ComicStrip/DickTracy. As the stories grew DarkerAndEdgier and HollywoodPsych became a theme, he was given a further twist of his duality representing a SplitPersonality, and [[WeUsedToBeFriends having a personal connection to Batman]], which solidified him as a big player. However, throughout all this time, his capabilities remained largely static, even as those of Batman and the other iconic rogues started to creep up. Modern Two-Face doesn't have any powers to fight Batman, he isn't an especially BadassNormal, he isn't some sort of supergenius, he doesn't use any piece of technology that could give him an advantage, he's rarely depicted as anything more than a middle-ranking crime boss (TheDon usually tends to be the Penguin or Black Mask), he isn't insanely rich, and he isn't a VillainWithGoodPublicity or anything like that. His only niche is being tied to Batman's past, really. Yet despite all this, comics like ''Comicbook/BatmanTheLongHalloween'' and movies like ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' or ''Film/BatmanForever'' mean he's too iconic to be anything less than an A-lister, despite the great power imbalance existing between him and Batman.

to:

* [[Characters/BatmanTwoFace Two-Face]] came from an era where most ''Batman'' villains were little more than gangsters with gimmicks, and Batman's abilities weren't much greater than those of, say, ComicStrip/DickTracy. As the stories grew DarkerAndEdgier and HollywoodPsych became a theme, he was given a further twist of his duality representing a SplitPersonality, and [[WeUsedToBeFriends having a personal connection to Batman]], which solidified him as a big player. However, throughout all this time, his capabilities remained largely static, even as those of Batman and the other iconic rogues started to creep up. Modern Two-Face doesn't have any powers to fight Batman, he isn't an especially BadassNormal, he isn't some sort of supergenius, he doesn't use any piece of technology that could give him an advantage, he's rarely depicted as anything more than a middle-ranking crime boss (TheDon usually tends to be the Penguin or Black Mask), he isn't insanely rich, and he isn't a VillainWithGoodPublicity or anything like that. that (he used to be a prominent lawyer, but lost all of that from the tragic accident that turned him into a supervillain). His only niche is being tied to Batman's past, really.past and demonstrating how the struggles of a good man to clean up Gotham can sometimes fail. Yet despite all this, comics like ''Comicbook/BatmanTheLongHalloween'' and movies like ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' or ''Film/BatmanForever'' mean he's too iconic to be anything less than an A-lister, despite the great power imbalance existing between him and Batman. His encounters with most incarnations of Robin, on the other hand, strike a greater balance in power (by way of the Robins being less experienced) and give him more of a presence in the story as a personal ArchEnemy of them, courtesy of nearly killing Dick Grayson and Tim Drake, and his role in the deaths of Jason Todd's parents [[AdaptationOriginConnection Post-Crisis]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* [[Characters/BatmanTwoFace Two-Face]] came from an era where most ''Batman'' villains were little more than gangsters with gimmicks, and Batman's abilities weren't much greater than those of, say, ComicStrip/DickTracy. As the stories grew DarkerAndEdgier and HollywoodPsych became a theme, he was given a further twist of his duality representing a SplitPersonality, and [[WeUsedToBeFriends having a personal connection to Batman]], which solidified him as a big player. However, throughout all this time, his capabilities remained largely static. Modern Two-Face doesn't have any powers to fight Batman, he isn't an especially BadassNormal, he isn't some sort of supergenius, he doesn't use any piece of technology that could give him an advantage, he's rarely depicted as anything more than a middle-ranking crime boss (TheDon usually tends to be the Penguin or Black Mask), he isn't insanely rich, and he isn't a VillainWithGoodPublicity or anything like that. His only niche is being tied to Batman's past, really. Yet despite all this, comics like ''Comicbook/BatmanTheLongHalloween'' and movies like ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' or ''Film/BatmanForever'' mean he's too iconic to be anything less than an A-lister, despite the great power imbalance existing between him and Batman.

to:

* [[Characters/BatmanTwoFace Two-Face]] came from an era where most ''Batman'' villains were little more than gangsters with gimmicks, and Batman's abilities weren't much greater than those of, say, ComicStrip/DickTracy. As the stories grew DarkerAndEdgier and HollywoodPsych became a theme, he was given a further twist of his duality representing a SplitPersonality, and [[WeUsedToBeFriends having a personal connection to Batman]], which solidified him as a big player. However, throughout all this time, his capabilities remained largely static.static, even as those of Batman and the other iconic rogues started to creep up. Modern Two-Face doesn't have any powers to fight Batman, he isn't an especially BadassNormal, he isn't some sort of supergenius, he doesn't use any piece of technology that could give him an advantage, he's rarely depicted as anything more than a middle-ranking crime boss (TheDon usually tends to be the Penguin or Black Mask), he isn't insanely rich, and he isn't a VillainWithGoodPublicity or anything like that. His only niche is being tied to Batman's past, really. Yet despite all this, comics like ''Comicbook/BatmanTheLongHalloween'' and movies like ''Film/TheDarkKnight'' or ''Film/BatmanForever'' mean he's too iconic to be anything less than an A-lister, despite the great power imbalance existing between him and Batman.

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