History OlderThanTheyThink / ComicBooks

** The cover of ''ComicBook/UncannyXMen'' #136 (Cyclops holding Phoenix) may have been inspired by an older work of art, but it is sufficiently different from Michelangelo's Pietàs to be considered in a different category from them. (For starters, Cyclops is standing, not sitting). And the Pietà representation of Mary and Jesus had itself been used by plenty of sculptors for 150 years before Michelangelo was even born, to say nothing of not dissimilar artistic representations of other mothers with dead children dating back to pre-Christian times (e. g. Eos and her son Memnon, Niobe and one of her daughters).

* Doctor Mid-Nite, a Golden Age DC character, is a blind superhero and a doctor of superheroes long before Daredevil and ComicBook/NightNurse were a thing.

* Another similar point made in Astro City is regarding the TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks. Many fans are surprised and confused that in Astro City, the darkness came in The70s, this is actually GeniusBonus, when you realize that characters like Wolverine, the Punisher, and Moon Knight actually were introduced in the 70s, and that more violence and mature themes in movies actually started in that decade, not to mention the general malaise and social desintegration in a decade defined by Watergate. The Dark Age of Comic Books were actually an example of TwoDecadesBehind.

* Many people seem to think that ComicBook/{{Aquaman}} came before [[ComicBook/SubMariner Namor the Sub-Mariner]], even though Namor predated him by two years. This may be because Namor went out of print during UsefulNotes/TheInterregnum, while Aquaman held on as an ''Action Comics'' backup. Even then, Aquaman is also predated by the Shark, a similar aquatic hero who actually debuted the same month as Namor, but who has since faded into obscurity.

*** DC, which published a few stories of the original Hugo Danner (as did Marvel), gave Danner a son named "Iron" Munro who filled in for [[UsefulNotes/TheGoldenAgeOfComicBooks Golden Age]] Superman in the {{Retcon}} patchwork that Franchise/TheDCU's UsefulNotes/WorldWarII history became ComicBook/PostCrisis, when many of the formerly Golden Age heroes were given new, recent origins. Now, the adventures that happened to Superman DuringTheWar, mostly happened to Munro instead.

* Imagine a team of proactive, even dictatorial ComicBook/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica {{Expy}}s using their power to [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans take over Earth]] in the wake of a catastrophic alien invasion. Sounds like ComicBook/TheAuthority if you were born after 1992, but [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks Bronze Age]] readers will recognize it as the plot of Mark Gruenwald's ''ComicBook/SquadronSupreme''.

* In general, superhero comics' DarkerAndEdgier turn has often been exclusively credited to (or blamed on) UsefulNotes/TheDarkAgeOfComicBooks and the trend's [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks Bronze Age]] origins overlooked. (And those origins aren't just in the earlier work of later Dark Age stars like Creator/AlanMoore. Witness the hero apparently confessing to off-screen torture, then gloating over his fallen enemy as he slowly and deliberately batters him to death on screen ... in "Spawn" from ''ComicBook/NewGods'' ... by Creator/JackKirby, in 1971!)

** [[Characters/MarvelComicsDoctorDoom Doctor Doom]] is also sometimes accused of being a Darth Vader ripoff - despite premiering 15 years before the original [[Film/ANewHope Star Wars]].

* Speaking of Young Avengers, while the book was published in 2005, the concept existed beforehand as something Creator/RobLiefeld and Jim Valentino proposed to Marvel in 1992. This proposed team would've consisted of a very different lineup, namely Namoria, Speedball, Vance Astro, Firestar, and Torpedo ([[ComicBook/{{Nova}} Richard Rider]] after he lost his Nova abilities). Along the way, it would've introduced Combat, Cougar, Brahma, Lynx, Rebound, Gridlock, Spectra, and Photon. It was ultimately rejected, and the latter characters were [[DivorcedInstallment introduced]] in Creator/ImageComics works like ''ComicBook/{{Youngblood}}'' and ''ComicBook/{{Shadowhawk}}''.

*** Koriand'r isn't even the second character with that name. In 1976, DC debuted the second Starfire and gave her her own ongoing which lasted only eight issues. Like the more well-known ''Titans'' character, this Starfire was also a scantily-clad alien female warrior.

** When the ''WesternAnimation/SteamboatWillie'' version of WesternAnimation/MickeyMouse fell into public domain at the start of 2024, there were lots of jokes about making porn featuring Mickey, seemingly unaware that Tijuana Bible creators beat them to the punch by about 90 years (Mickey and WesternAnimation/MinnieMouse in sexual situations being a common theme in the old booklets).

** Some adaptations like ''VideoGame/BatmanTheTelltaleSeries'', ''Film/BatmanBegins'', ''Series/{{Gotham}}'' and [[spoiler:''Film/TheBatman2022'']] have depicted (or at least implied that) the Waynes' deaths were a deliberate assassination rather than a random robbery-homicide. In actuality, this idea goes all the way back to 1956's ''Detective Comics #235'' which reveals that Joe Chill was ordered to kill the Waynes by a mob boss named Lew Moxon who blamed Thomas Wayne for him getting arrested and jailed. This story was even written by Creator/BillFinger himself!
** A juvenile delinquent is adopted by Bruce Wayne, becomes a second Robin and is killed in the line of duty. Are we talking about Jason Todd PostCrisis? Actually, we are talking about Lance Bruner who debuted in ''The Brave and The Bold'', ''fourteen years'' before Jason Todd was created.

** Most of ''Superman'' fans are unaware that "ComicBook/TheCondemnedLegionnaires" introduced the idea of Kryptonite being also harmful to humans, predating the "Lex Luthor's Kryptonite ring gave him cancer" plotline for nearly thirty years.

** Many people incorrectly think that Wonder Woman was the first female superhero. In fact, there were dozens of female superheroes prior to Wonder Woman. One of the earliest is [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Ritty Ritty]], who debuted in late 1939, two years before Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman isn't even the first female ''patriotic'' superhero. She was preceded by [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/USA USA]], [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Miss_Victory Miss Victory]], [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Miss_America Miss America]], [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Miss_Patriot Miss Patriot]], [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Pat_Patriot Pat Patriot]] and [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/War_Nurse War Nurse]]. Most notably [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkgirl Hawkgirl]] was introduced prior to Wonder Woman, first as Shiera Sanders, Hawkman's love interest, in ''Flash Comics'' #1, then as Hawkgirl in ''All Star Comics'' #5, June, 1941. Wonder Woman first appeared in ''All Star Comics'' #8, 1941. It would be more correct to say that she is the first female superhero to headline her own series.

** The decision to RetCon Diana’s origins from being a clay doll animated by magic to Hippolyta and Zeus’ biological daughter in ComicBook/New52 was and remains controversial. However, a similar origin was originally teased in the [[Franchise/DCAnimatedUniverse DCAU]], where Hades implies that he is Diana’s father, although it is never revealed if he’s telling the truth or not.

** At one point, Hippolyta was sent back in time to the 1940s where she joined the Justice Society of America as their Wonder Woman, leading to a new timeline where Hippolyta was Wonder Woman before Diana. The idea of Diana being a LegacyCharacter was divisive among fans, but as the entry above with Artemis shows, Diana having a predecessor as Amazon champion is not a new idea.
** The Blue Snowman is one of many [[AnIcePerson ice-themed supervillains]] in Franchise/TheDCU, many of whom are more well-known than her. It may surprise most to know that the Blue Snowman actually predates every ice-themed villain of the DC universe, including known FreezeRay-users, [[ComicBook/TheFlash Captain Cold]] and [[ComicBook/{{Batman}} Mr. Freeze]].

* Marvel is often believed to have started introducing young/teen superhero teams post-2000 to capture young readers, with titles like ''ComicBook/{{Runaways}}'', ''ComicBook/YoungAvengers'', and more recently, ''ComicBook/{{Champions|2016}}'' being cited as their big pushes towards that in effort to capitalize on the same market that ''ComicBook/TeenTitans'' appeals to. In reality, Marvel successfully did that back in ''1982'', with the ''ComicBook/NewMutants'' being the official answer to the Titans. In fact, ''New Mutants'' was where the iconic ComicBook/{{Deadpool}} originated, being an antagonist and rip-o -- err, ''homage'' of iconic DC villain ComicBook/{{Deathstroke}}. They also introduced as a ''second'' youth-oriented team with the ''ComicBook/NewWarriors'' in 1989, which fit the "non-X related young heroes team".

*** The character is Hugo Danner, ''Literature/{{Gladiator}}'', from a book published in 1930, before Franchise/{{Superman}} or Spider-Man. Siegel & Schuster have admitted to taking inspiration from it when they created Superman.

*** Other early superhero characters sharing most of those traits (but set in UsefulNotes/{{Japan}} rather than America) include the Japanese superheroes Anime/GoldenBat (debuted 1930) and [[https://web.archive.org/web/20150104164648/http://www.animevice.com/prince-of-gamma/18-31482/ Prince of Gamma]] (debuted early 1930's). In these cases, the uncanny similarities to Franchise/{{Superman}} and Franchise/{{Batman}} are even greater, including tropes like full {{Flight}}, SuperSpeed, TheCape, BatSignal, alien SuperHeroOrigin, etc.

* The mix of ancient characters with original creations in stories about characters like Marvel's [[ComicBook/TheMightyThor Thor]] and [[ComicBook/TheIncredibleHercules Hercules]] and DC's Franchise/WonderWoman and ComicBook/{{Hercules|Unbound}} leads to an understandable amount of both OlderThanTheyThink and NewerThanTheyThink. Notable examples include reviewers thinking a character was being antisemitic for calling Hercules's wife "Hebe" (that's her name, from classical Greek mythology, and it's pronounced differently to the modern anti-Semitic slur).
* Imagine a team of proactive, even dictatorial Franchise/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica {{Expy}}s using their power to [[UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans take over Earth]] in the wake of a catastrophic alien invasion. Sounds like ComicBook/TheAuthority if you were born after 1992, but [[UsefulNotes/TheBronzeAgeOfComicBooks Bronze Age]] readers will recognize it as the plot of Mark Gruenwald's ''ComicBook/SquadronSupreme''.

* ComicBook/AntMan riding one of ComicBook/{{Hawkeye}}'s arrows is arguably one of the most iconic moments in ''[[ComicBook/TheAvengers Avengers]]'' history, and has been recreated in adaptations like ''WesternAnimation/TheAvengersEarthsMightiestHeroes'', ''VideoGame/MarvelVsCapcom3'' and ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar''. However, DC actually beat Marvel to the punch on this, as ComicBook/GreenArrow and ComicBook/TheAtom pulled the same trick in an issue of ''Franchise/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica'' back in 1963.

* ''Franchise/WonderWoman''

** Franchise/TheAvengers, or an Avengers-like team, is assembled by ComicBook/{{SHIELD}} to help stop villains instead of forming on its own. Sound familiar? Granted, it's regard by most fans as an AudienceAlienatingEra and hence most have chosen to forget about it, but ''ComicBook/HeroesReborn'', which saw print in 1996, was the first to use the concept of S.H.I.E.L.D. being the ones to bring together the Avengers, five years before ''ComicBook/TheUltimates'' did it and 16 years before ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'' movie used it (and that was likely borrowed from ''The Ultimates'').

** The first post-Liefeld ''Franchise/CaptainAmerica'' issue mildly retconned Cap's backstory to reveal a UsefulNotes/WorldWarII SuperSoldier was defrosted during both UsefulNotes/TheKoreanWar and UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar, only to put him back under when their mental conditioning started to buckle. Sounds like ComicBook/BuckyBarnes following becoming the Winter Soldier, right? Nope, replace the Soviet Union with the United States and you've got ''Heroes Reborn'' Captain America's backstory. That said, in the case of ''Heroes Reborn'', this turned out to be part of a series of lies for ''HR''!Steve told by an LMD of Nick Fury in the penultimate issue.

* One of Franchise/SpiderMan's foes decides not only to "kill" him, but become a SuperiorSuccessor show that they could be a better Spider-Man than Peter Parker ever could. Sounds like ''ComicBook/SuperiorSpiderMan'', right? Well, it actually happened before, as part of ''ComicBook/KravensLastHunt'' had Kraven pretending to be Spider-Man after drugging and burying him alive to show himself as Spidey's superior.

* ''Franchise/FantasticFour'':
** The name of the lab at the end of ''Film/FantasticFour2015'' being "Central City" was mistaken by some as a reference to ''Franchise/TheFlash''. In actuality, Central City was the name of the city they operated in during the comic's EarlyInstallmentWeirdness (and is still canon as Reed's hometown).

** Barbara Gordon is almost always considered the original ComicBook/{{Batgirl}}; however, five years prior to Babs appearing in ''Series/Batman1966'' there was already a "Bat-Girl", who was a sidekick to Batwoman and more of a direct DistaffCounterpart to Robin. Betty Kane was scrapped after a while but reappeared as an adult in the late 70s, only to be {{retcon}}ned out of existence after the universe reboots. She was later reintroduced as "Bett''e'' Kane" and made into Flamebird. Bette is no longer considered a Batfamily member and [[CanonDiscontinuity DC ignores]] her run as Bat-Girl, but she still ''technically'' was the first Batgirl.

** The earliest (comics) superheroine quite probably is ''Olga Mesmer, the Girl with the X-Ray Eyes'', who appeared in a back-up comic series in the pulp magazine ''Spicy Mystery Stories'' starting in August 1937. That's right, she got into print before Superman. Olga Mesmer also was super-strong and the daughter of an alien queen (belonging to a subterranean race that originated from Venus), but her feature only lasted a little over a year. Considering the title of the magazine in which she appeared, it's probably no surprise that Olga did not fight in a colourful costume, but mostly in her underwear. Fun fact: Both ''Spicy Mystery Stories'' and ''Action Comics'' were published by Harry Donenfeld.

** William Messner-Loebs's run famously introduced Artemis, a red-haired Amazon from the Bana-Mighdall tribe who temporarily replaced Diana as Wonder Woman and was [[AntiHeroSubstitute much more abrasive and violent than her predecessor]]. However, Artemis takes inspiration from two other Amazon characters from the Pre-Crisis era.

** Many assume that there weren't non-white Amazons until the creation of Nubia in 1973. This is far from the case. Back in 1949, Robert Kanigher wrote "The Riddle of the Chinese Mummy Case" (Wonder Woman Volume 1, #37) which saw the discovery of an ancient Chinese statue dedicated to Princess Mei who inexplicably has an Amazon shield. Diana goes on a trip through time to meet the living Princess Mei, who reveals herself to be a descendant of the Amazons who conquered Asia Minor. Mei's tribe of Amazons predate even the Bana-Migdhall.

** Many people incorrectly think that Wonder Woman was the first female superhero. In fact, here were dozens of female superheroes prior to Wonder Woman. One of the earliest is [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Ritty Ritty]], who debuted in late 1939, two years before Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman isn't even the first female ''patriotic'' superhero. She was preceded by [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/USA USA]], [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Miss_Victory Miss Victory]], [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Miss_America Miss America]], [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Miss_Patriot Miss Patriot]], [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/Pat_Patriot Pat Patriot]] and [[http://pdsh.wikia.com/wiki/War_Nurse War Nurse]]. Most notably [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkgirl Hawkgirl]] was introduced prior to Wonder Woman, first as Shiera Sanders, Hawkman's love interest, in ''Flash Comics'' #1, then as Hawkgirl in ''All Star Comics'' #5, June, 1941. Wonder Woman first appeared in ''All Star Comics'' #8, 1941. It would be more correct to say that she is the first female superhero to headline her own series.

* ComicBook/DoctorMidnite, a Golden Age DC character, is a blind superhero and a doctor of superheroes long before Daredevil and ComicBook/NightNurse were a thing.

* While the lack of [[ComicBook/{{Venom}} Venom's]] classic white spider emblems was decried in ''Film/Venom2018'', there actually is basis via the ''ComicBook/UltimateSpiderMan'' comics as the Ultimate version of Venom only had the logos on the covers of his initial arc and the end of [[VideoGame/UltimateSpiderMan the video game]].[[note]]Where it was actually Eddie, anyway; ''ComicBook/TheUltimates3'' opened with an Ultron-created copy attacking the team and said copy did sport the white spider logos[[/note]].

* Many moviegoers have accused the ''ComicBook/FantasticFour'' [[Film/FantasticFour movies]] of ripping off ''WesternAnimation/TheIncredibles''.

** While most people acknowledge the [[ComicBook/{{Robin}} Dick Grayson version of Robin]] to be an older character of the Batman mythos, ''how'' old he is tends to surprise people. Most depictions of Batman's career that feature Robin treat him teaming up with Batman as the EndOfAnAge, with Batman having had many adventures beforehand and already encountered many of his greatest villains, usually needing a MoralityPet to drag him out of a dark phase due to everything he's been through. Robin debuted in ''Detective Comics'' #38, in 1940--eleven months and eleven issues after Batman's first debut. The only remotely significant Batman villains to debut in that period were Joe Chill, the Mad Monk, Doctor Death, a nigh-unrecognizable Hugo Strange, and a number of long-forgotten gangsters and mad scientists. Robin as an aspect of Batman's mythos is older than every other member of Batman's RoguesGallery, and pretty much every other member of his supporting cast apart from Commissioner Gordon. (Yes, Robin debuted before the Joker and ''Alfred.'')

* Related, but in the 21st century, ComicBook/CaptainAmerica had two very high profile instances where he was replaced. First was by ComicBook/BuckyBarnes after ''ComicBook/CivilWar'', and then again by [[ComicBook/TheFalcon Sam Wilson]] in 2014. The first major instance of this happening was back in the 80s during Mark Gruenwald's run (when Steve Rogers was replaced by John Walker), and even before that, J.M. [=DeMatteis=] had pitched a story where Cap would have been killed off and replaced by Jesse Black Crow, a young Native American man who had previously appeared in his run. Meanwhile, the 70s run of ''Captain America and The Falcon'' briefly featured a young man named Roscoe Simons as the new Cap after Steve Rogers abandoned the mantle in favor of becoming Nomad.

** While most people acknowledge the [[ComicBook/{{Robin}} Dick Grayson version of Robin]] to be an older character of the Batman mythos, ''how'' old he is tends to surprise people. Most depictions of Batman's career that feature Robin treat him teaming up with Batman as the EndOfAnEra, with Batman having had many adventures beforehand and already encountered many of his greatest villains, usually needing a MoralityPet to drag him out of a dark phase due to everything he's been through. Robin debuted in ''Detective Comics'' #38, in 1940--eleven months and eleven issues after Batman's first debut. The only remotely significant Batman villains to debut in that period were Joe Chill, the Mad Monk, Doctor Death, a nigh-unrecognizable Hugo Strange, and a number of long-forgotten gangsters and mad scientists. Robin as an aspect of Batman's mythos is older than every other member of Batman's RoguesGallery, and pretty much every other member of his supporting cast apart from Commissioner Gordon. (Yes, Robin debuted before the Joker and ''Alfred.'')

*** During the Bronze Age, Jack C. Harris wrote a two-issue story in which Diana was replaced as Wonder Woman by a red-haired Amazon named Orana. Like Artemis, Orana was charactertized as arrogant and ill-tempered, and even died as well. The main difference is that Artemis came back to life shortly after death. In fact, Orana is one of the earliest {{Anti Hero Substitute}}s in superhero comics.

** William Messner-Loebs's run famously introduced Artemis, a red-haired Amazon from the Bana-Mighdall tribe who temporarily replaced Diana as Wonder Woman and was [[AntiHeroSubstitute much more abrasive and violent than her predecessor. However, Artemis takes inspiration from two other Amazon characters from the Pre-Crisis era.

** Miller noted that his take on ''ComicBook/{{Daredevil}}'' was inspired by ''The Spirit'' and noting that stuff like the gritty crime drama nature of the stories, the real-life setting of New York City, a mysterious TheManBehindTheMan type villain (The Kingpin [=/=] The Octopus) and the FemmeFatale who have DarkAndTroubledPast connection to the hero (Elektra [=/=]Sand Saref) can be sourced there.

** Before Superman's birth in 1938 you already had the inhumanly strong ComicStrip/{{Popeye}}, created in 1929. And many mythological stories from The Antiquity also talk about powerful heroes, just think about Heracle/Hercules.