History Main / WithUsOrAgainstUs

** But not if you are a main character: Your BadAss status allows you to be supportive or enemy of the World Government with abandon. Neutral countries, on the other hand, have to accept Government leadership, or their whole population will be deported and enslaved. Because the alternative is pirates.

-->-- '''Anakin Skywalker ([[spoiler:AKA Darth Vader]])''', ''Franchise/StarWars Episode III: Film/RevengeOfTheSith''

-->-- '''Anakin Skywalker (AKA Darth Vader)''', ''Franchise/StarWars Episode III: Film/RevengeOfTheSith''

Describe With Us or Against Us here, or you are my enemy!

* Literature/TheBible: PlayingWithATrope. It's not so much as "us or them" as Jesus saying that ''neutrality'' on Him simply does not exist. You pick one side or the other, and it is impossible not to choose a side. Anyone who does good deeds is "for Him" even if they're an atheist because GodIsGood. Anyone who does evil deeds (i.e sin) is "against Him" because sin is basically "an offense against God" even if that person is an atheist. This is distinct from salvation, which only comes through accepting Jesus', including His Divinity, sacrifice and resurrection, in faith.

* Literature/TheBible: PlayingWithATrope. It's not so much as "us or them" as Jesus saying that ''neutrality'' on Him simply does not exist. You pick one side or the other, and it is impossible not to choose a side. Anyone who does good deeds is "for him" even if they're an atheist because GodIsGood. Anyone who does evil deeds (i.e sin) is against Him because sin is basically "an offense against God" even if that person is an atheist. This is distinct from salvation, which only comes through accepting Jesus', including His Divinity, sacrifice and resurrection, in faith.

* ''ForgottenRealms'' has a [[ChurchMilitant paladin Order of Samular]]. Once they hunted a demon and an elven community that happened to be between them -- surprise! -- didn't allow a little army of human heavy cavalry to crash through their territory just so... "thus allying themselves with the evil tanar'ri". More than a generation (human) later elves were still upset about the resulting bloodbath and paladins "wary of elves and their unknowable, inhuman ways".

* In ''AManForAllSeasons'', Thomas More does not like King Henry VIII's actions, but rather than complain, he keeps his mouth shut and refuses to say anything one way or the other. Unfortunately, Sir Thomas is widely known as one of the wisest and most honest men in the kingdom, and his silence makes his position on the issue pretty obvious to everybody. King Henry then lays down the gauntlet, and makes everyone in England swear an oath affirming his support of the King's actions, prompting the film's main conflict.

* In ''Film/BenHur'', this mentality is what drove Messala to sentence Judah Ben-Hur to slavery. Messala wanted his friend Ben-Hur to turn in the Jews who were speaking against him and the Roman occupation. Ben-Hur refuses, so Messala tells him, "You're either with me or you're against me." Ben-Hur replies, "If those are my choices, then I am against you."

* Literature/TheBible: PlayingWithATrope. It's not so much as "us or them" as Jesus saying that ''neutrality'' on Him simply does not exist. You pick one side or the other, and it is impossible not to choose a side. Anyone who does good deeds is "for him" even if they're an atheist because GodIsGood. Anyone who does evil deeds (i.e sin) is against Him because sin is basically "an offense against God" even if that person is an atheist.

TruthInTelevision, as anyone who has gone to a FlameWar on a political or religious MessageBoard can attest. TheOtherWiki [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_either_with_us%2C_or_against_us can attest, too]]. The phrase "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" is frequently used as a more polite-sounding version that nonetheless amounts to the same thing.

* ''TheElderScrollsVSkyrim'':

* ''ComicBook/Ultimates2015:'' During the ''Civil War II'' tie-in, an increasingly driven Carol Danvers begins saying this to the team. She doesn't get beyond "or" before America decides to declare herself against Carol, via the medium of a chair to the head.

* Something of a {{Zig Zagged Trope}} in the {{Divine Comedy}} by Dante Alighieri. Illustrated in the form of this quote.

** Considering what happened to him ({{The Other Wiki}} has a lot of information on that), this view becomes [[Main/ItMakesSenseInContext understandable in hindsight.]]

* Invoked by both sides near the end of ''[[{{Deryni}} Deryni Checkmate]]'', during the acrimonious Interdict debate in the Curia which began the schism in the Gwyneddian Church. At one point, Cardiel addresses a couple of junior bishops: "Siward? Gilbert? Do you stand with us? Or with Loris?" Loris finally hangs the lampshade when Cardiel (host of the assembly in Dhassa) orders him to leave: "Then it is war. All who side with the enemy shall be counted as the enemy. There can be no other alternative."

* In the ''SwordOfTruth'' series, one of the explicitly stated {{Aesop}}s is that our lives are our own, and we should do with them as we choose. Not a horribly warped lesson, right? Yet Goodkind turns this into a BrokenAesop with parts of the rest of the books that claim the only "real" choice for our lives is to fall in line with his views, and that any other choice just makes you as wrong than the bad guys. Even if people have been lied to all their lives, like the Hakens in ''Soul of the Fire'', they either side with Richard, or they have crossed the MoralEventHorizon, and should die like the evil swine they are.

In a nutshell, this is a form of extremism that does acknowledge that there's a [[GreyAndGrayMorality gray]] area between {{black and white|Morality}}, but that everything that isn't white is ''still'' as bad as black. A SubTrope of FalseDichotomy.

TruthInTelevision, as anyone who has gone to a FlameWar on a political or religious MessageBoard can attest. TheOtherWiki [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_either_with_us%2C_or_against_us can attest, too]]. The phrase "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem" is frequently used as a more polite-sounding version that nonetheless amounts to the same thing.

See also BlackAndWhiteInsanity, ActivistFundamentalistAntics, and WeAreStrugglingTogether. This may lead to NeutralityBacklash.

[[noreallife]]

[[folder:Webcomics]]
* In [[http://basicinstructions.net/basic-instructions/2011/4/5/how-to-explore-your-emotions.html this]] ''Webcomic/BasicInstructions'':
--> '''Rick''': Your theory is a nice start, but I can break down my feelings even further. I have identified two basic emotions.\\
'''Scott''': Really?! Just two?!\\
'''Rick''': Yes, "anger" and "not anger." It used to be three emotions, but I eliminated "less anger."
[[/folder]]

** But not if you are a main character: your BadAss status allows you to be supportive or enemy of the World Government with abandon. Neutral countries, on the other hand, have to accept Government leadership, or their whole population will be deported and enslaved. Because the alternative is pirates.

* ''Franchise/OnePiece'', but not if you are a main character: your BadAss status allows you to be supportive or enemy of the World Government with abandon. Neutral countries, on the other hand, have to accept Government leadership, or their whole population will be deported and enslaved. Because the alternative is pirates.

*** Although later in the series she does learn to be bothered by it when it's pointed out that Odo worked for the Cardassians, even after he learned that they had no real interest in "justice", and was therefore a "collaborator" by the very vague definitions she used.

* Ulfric Stormcloak of ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim Skyrim]]'' is like this. In the words of Jarl Balgruuf:

** To Ulfric's credit, he understands that people in general have more nuanced reasons for not necessarily joining his cause. On the other hand, his second-in-command, Galmar, quotes this trope nearly verbatim

* The page quote is from ''Film/RevengeOfTheSith''. When Vader throws that line at Obi-Wan, he simply responds, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" (which, ironically, is itself an absolute) and ignites his saber.

* ''OnePiece'', but not if you are a main character: your BadAss status allows you to be supportive or enemy of the World Government with abandon. Neutral countries, on the other hand, have to accept Government leadership, or their whole population will be deported and enslaved. Because the alternative is pirates.

* In ''ASongOfIceAndFire'' Melisandre believes that people either are on the side of her god [[LightIsNotGood R'hllor]] or that of the [[EvilIsDeathlyCold Great Other]]. She uses the analogy of a half-rotten onion to prove to Ser Davos that a man who is half-evil is still evil, not good.

* The Atlantic Federation of ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEED'' does this with regards to [[TheKingdom Orb]]. Orb has a mass driver, which the Atlantic Federation needs, so they give them this trope as an ultimatum[[note]]This was done mainly by Muruta Azrael; the other leaders of the Atlantic Federation were very reluctant to go along with it[[/note]]. It happens all over again in ''Anime/MobileSuitGundamSEEDDestiny'', (albeit done by [[WesternTerrorists Blue Cosmos]] / [[AncientConspiracy Logos]] this time) when the Destroy Gundam is unleashed on the western Eurasian Federation for being too sympathetic to ZAFT. Durandal also pulls this at the end of the series, stating that anyone who doesn't agree to his Destiny Plan is a threat to world peace, in with the aforementioned terrorists and deserve to be eliminated via KillSat.
** Kira himself also shares this view to a point. Or at least this is what he tells Athrun after he repeatedly tries to justify his siding against Orb, and Kira promptly shuts him down by saying regardless of how he wants to view it, he's still attacking soliders of their nation and that makes him an enemy. He doesn't kill Athrun though, and in fact is largely forgiving of anyone fighting against him, unlike most of the other factions.

* ''Series/StarTrekDeepSpaceNine'': ''Commander'' Kira tells this lesson to the Cardassians when they've started a rebellion. She's reminded in the same episode that Odo (her lover) used to be against the Bajorans while the Cardassians were occupying her planet.
** Also, Kira to Odo: "We used to have a saying in the resistance, 'If you're not fighting them, you're helping them.'" Kira holds a very dichotomised view of "collaborators", particularly in the days immediately after the Cardassian Occupation, and one which is challenged on several occasions through the course of the series.
** In ''The Darkness and the Light'' members of her former terrorists cell were killed. Eventually she found that it was a Cardassian wounded in one of their bombings seeking revenge. He stated he'd been a civilian servant, not involved with the crimes against Bajorans, and worked in a building they bombed. Kira doesn't care-she considers them all guilty, as [[OccupiersOutOfOurCountry none of them should have been there on Bajor to begin with]]. Yes, there is a reason she admits to being a former ''terrorist''...

* The Scarlet Crusade of ''WorldOfWarcraft'' believes its holy purpose is to destroy the Scourge. However, they believe that anybody who has not joined the Crusade is likely a carrier of the plague and is thus their enemy as well. Only when preparing to face Kel'thuzad have they grudgingly worked alongside other groups.

* In ''VideoGame/PlaystationAllStarsBattleRoyale'', this is the reason for [[VideoGame/InFamous Good!Cole Macgrath]] starting up a rivalry with [[VideoGame/MetalGearRisingRevengeance Raiden.]]

* In ''TheThrawnTrilogy'', Borsk Fey'lya sees his political rivals as his enemies. He's not above leaving them to die, and thinks that everyone else thinks in similar terms. Thrawn in fact counts on Fey'lya acting this way to paralyze the New Republic and dispose of the people who pose a real danger to him, like Admiral Ackbar.
** It's a trait that most Bothan share. [[http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bothan Bothan society]] is based around a system where the pursuit of power and influence were paramount, and it was quite normal to use backstabbing, political maneuvering and character assassinations against others to gain influence. However, they previously only did it within their own society; Borsk was either unable or unwilling to see that other races didn't operate this way. Thrawn, having analyzed species' psychology based on their artwork, knew and took full advantage of it.

* The AI in the VideoGame/{{Civilization}} series often act like this: trade with them, or be considered enemy, trade with their enemies and also be considered enemies. This is particulary visible in IV there its near impossible to stay neutral unless you have the forces and tech advance so noone want to wage war against you anyway, except you have a different religion as [[TriggerHappy Isabella]], who envokes the With Us or Against Us on your state religion.

* In the second part of the ''VideoGame/BioshockInfinite'' DLC ''Burial At Sea'', Elizabeth is making her way through the newly war-torn Rapture when Ryan gets wind of her and contacts her wondering what she doing in the city and offers to let her fight for him. She makes it clear she's on her own mission and doesn't want anything to do with Rapture or his war. But Ryan, paranoid as always of outsiders, takes that to mean she's a "parasite" and sics his splicers on her.

* On ''The Coodabeen Champions'', one-eyed [[AustralianRulesFootball Collingwood]] fan Digger once complained about how the umpires were running the game: "The way they were umpiring, you would have thought they didn't care whether Collingwood won or they didn't!". Tony pointed out that they weren't ''meant'' to care, prompting an angry rant.