History Main / WithUsOrAgainstUs

* A {{Kayfabe}} example would be the {{Catchphrase}} of TheNexus. You're either Nexus, or your against us!

->'''Anakin Skywalker''': If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.\\

** This comes to the forefront ''hard'' in ''[[SoBadItsHorrible Naked Empire]]'', where Richard mows down an entire army of unarmed protestors who are keeping him from the BigBad. He claims that he is fully justified in doing so, due to the protesters' "hatred of moral clarity."

'''Obi-Wan Kenobi:''' [[FridgeLogic Only a Sith deals in absolutes]].

* The page quote from ''RevengeOfTheSith''. Leads to a bit of FridgeLogic -- isn't saying that "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" [[{{Hypocrite}} itself an absolute]]?
** If you think about it, it might just be a poorly written line instead of hypocritical. If Obi-wan had just said "Only a Sith deals in ''such'' absolutes", it would have changed the entire meaning and given him more credibility. People don't usually consider potential FridgeLogic before saying something so it could also be considered an example of RealisticDictionIsUnrealistic. Or a delicious NotSoDifferent moral concerning the Jedi Order. YourMileageMayVary.

* The page quote in ''RevengeOfTheSith''. Leads to a bit of FridgeLogic--isn't saying that "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" [[{{Hypocrite}} itself an absolute]]?
** If you think about it, it might just be a poorly written line instead of hypocritical. If Obi-wan had just said "Only a Sith deals in ''such'' absolutes", it would have changed the entire meaning and given him more credibility.
*** But it does have a delicious NotSoDifferent moral concerning the Jedi Order.

** ''MallardFillmore'' stopped a [[StrawmanPolitical Straw Liberal Professor]] from pulling a [[GodwinsLaw Godwin]] on Bush's remark by reminding him that his generation was the one that made "You're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem" a famous rallying cry.
*** A real person is, by definition, not a strawman.

* As mentioned earlier, Message Boards. This mostly applies to religious and political boards, but can (and usually will) extend to everything else. Anyone who has spent enough time on boards will know that there's often topics where you either agree with a completely insane statement or you're branded as whatever is the opposite of the poster's ideology/beliefs/whatever (examples of popular insults: [[DirtyCommunists communist]], {{Satan}}ist, [[DepravedHomosexual homosexual]] [this one usually appears just for opposing ANY opinion]). It's important to note that {{troll}}s are often to blame for this.

* The page quote in ''RevengeOfTheSith''.

'''Obi-Wan Kenobi:''' Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

* When SteveDitko took a heavy turn into Objectivism, his heroes started to preach his viewpoint. That "Mr. A" AlanMoore sings about? That was one of Ditko's, who claimed that man can either be good or evil with no in-between.

*** Sweden and other neutrals often could be said to have aided both sides during WorldWarTwo. The German war machine heavily depended on Swedish iron ore, on the other hand they provided a safe haven for refugees from Germany and Nazi-occupied Europe and a base for Allied secret services. Spain provided volunteer troops that served on the Eastern front against the Soviet Union, yet Franco's adamant neutrality also protected Gibraltar from German plans to take Gibraltar from the land side more effectively than Spain joining the Allies would have.
* As mentioned earlier, Message Boards. This mostly applies to religious and political boards, but can (and usually will) extend to everything else. Anyone who has spent enough time on boards will know that there's often topics where you either agree with a completely insane statement or you're branded as whatever is the opposite of the poster's ideology/beliefs/whatever (examples of popular insults: [[DirtyCommunists communist]], {{Satan}}ist, [[DepravedHomosexual homosexual]] [this one usually appears just for opposing ANY opinion]). It's important to note that [[{{Troller}} trolls]] are often to blame for this.

[[folder:Myth And Legend]]

*** Sweden and other neutrals often could be said to have aided both sides during WorldWarTwo. The German war machine heavily depended on Swedish iron ore, on the other hand they provided a safe haven for refugees from Germany and Nazi-occupied Europe and a base for allied secret services. Spain provided volunteer troops that served on the Eastern front against the Soviet Union, yet Franco's adamant neutrality also protected Gibraltar from German plans to take Gibraltar from the land side.

* GeorgeWBush famously said, "You are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

->[[spoiler:'''Anakin Skywalker''']]: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.\\

->[[spoiler:'''Anakin Skywalker:''']] If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.\\

->'''Anakin Skywalker:''' If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.\\

** A very slight extension of this extends to states who harbor elements like Al Qaeda. President George Bush Jr. used the Trope name in a speech speaking to other nations, stating that if they willingly harbored the enemy, they would be considered the enemy. Of course, he hardly ''invented'' that line of reasoning: its ''always'' been an act of war to willingly give one of the belligerents in an ongoing armed conflict safe harbor in your nation. That's why neutral powers during wars are required to intern combatants of either side that stray into their territory.

* ''GundamSEED'' Atlantic Federation did this in spades. In the first season, they left their Eurasian allies to hang at JOSH-A as the ZAFT forces deliver a CurbstompBattle against their forces before activating the Cyclops System to finish both sides off. Then when it happened all over again in GundamSEEDDestiny, they unleashed the Destroy Gundam on the Eurasian forces.

* This is one of the central ideas of the Objectivism philosophy (upon which ''The Sword of Truth'', see above, draws heavily). "A is A" and all that--see the quote above. Ayn Rand, the [[strike:cult's]] philosophy's founder, was a lot like this in real life--if you disagreed with her even slightly, you were ''out'' of her little collective. As she stated: 'When a man declares: "There are no blacks and whites [in morality]" he is making a psychological confession, and what he means is: "I am unwilling to be wholly good--and please don't regard me as wholly evil!"'

'''Obi-Wan Kenobi:''' [[HypocriticalHumor Only a Sith]] [[InsaneTrollLogic deals in absolutes.]]

** If you think about it, it might just be a poorly written line instead of hypocritical. If Obi-wan had just said "Only a Sith deals in ''such'' absolutes", it would have changed the entire meaning and given him far more credibility.
*** Not completely. The Jedi already have a certain reputation of being quite hypocritical of others, and Obi-wan himself is the TropeNamer for FromACertainPointOfView. It does overall fit into the Jedi's Flaws, since they're really NotSoDifferent from the Sith when it comes to certain things.

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*** Not completely. The Jedi already have a certain reputation of being quite hypocritical of others, and Obi-wan himself is the trope namer for FromaCertainPointofView. It does overall fit into the Jedi's Flaws, since their really NotsoDifferent from the Sith when it comes to certain things.

** This comes to the forefront ''hard'' in ''[[SoBadItsHorrible Naked Empire]]'', where Richard mows down an entire army of unarmed protestors who are keeping him from the BigBad. He claims that he is fully justified in doing so, due to the protestors' "hatred of moral clarity."

--> Some people would be asking: Whose side are you on? If you're not with us, you're against us. Huh. If you're not an apple, you're a banana…

* In AManForAllSeasons, Thomas More does not like King Henry VIII's actions, but rather than complain, he keeps his mouth shut and refuses to say anything one way or the other. Unfortunately, Sir Thomas is widely known as one of the wisest and most honest men in the kingdom, and his silence makes his position on the issue pretty obvious to everybody. King Henry then lays down the gauntlet, and makes everyone in England swear an oath affirming his support of the King's actions, prompting the film's main conflict.

* This is one of the central ideas of the Objectivism philosophy (upon which ''The Sword of Truth'', see above, draws heavily). "A is A" and all that--see the quote above. Ayn Rand, the [[strike:cult's]] philosophy's founder, was a lot like this in real life--if you disagreed with her even slightly, you were ''out'' of her little collective. As she stated: 'When a man declares: "There are no blacks and whites [in morality]" he is making a psychological confession, and what he means is: "I am unwilling to be wholly good—and please don't regard me as wholly evil!"'

* As mentioned earlier, Message Boards. This mostly applies to religious and political boards, but can (and usually will) extend to everything else. Anyone who has spent enough time on boards will know that there's often topics where you either agree with a completely insane statement or you're branded as whatever is the opposite of the poster's idology/beliefs/whatever (examples of popular insults: [[DirtyCommunists communist]], [[{{Satan}} satanist]], [[DepravedHomosexual homosexual]] [this one usually appears just for opposing ANY opinion]). It's important to note that [[{{Troller}} trolls]] are often to blame for this.