History Main / ReasoningWithGod

* Big Bird in the SesameStreet movie ''Don[='=]t Eat The Pictures'': when an Egyptian boy who died young and was forced to stay on Earth of thousands of years, goes before Osiris for judgment to ascend into the heavens, he initially fails the test. Osiris pronounces judgment, at which point Big Bird gets him straight with a [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech reason the system sucks]] speech, causing the boy's heart to get lighter and thus pass the test. Read: Big Bird told the big boss of Myth/EgyptianMythology he didn't know what he was talking about, and got an afterlife verdict reversed.

* The ''PercyJackson'' series is the definition of this trope. Percy and Co. often convince the gods to either a, help them, or b, at least not to destroy them completely.

* On ''Series/MysteryScienceTheatre3000'', they spoof this trope while watching Jack Frost, specifically the scene where the girl has to finish her sock before the sun rises, and the girl asks the sun to wait.

* [[spoiler:Cassidy]] makes a deal with God towards the end of ''{{ComicBook/Preacher}}'': [[spoiler:he distracts and arranges for Jesse to get killed, forcing Genesis to leave the host and thus no longer posing any danger to God]]. In exchange, God brings Jesse and friends BackFromTheDead, minus vampirism in Cassidy's case.]] All goes as worked out, with the minor detail that [[spoiler:while God was away and thus non-omniscient, the Saint of Killers went OneManArmy on the armies of Heaven, sitting on the Throne of Paradise before God could get to it and ''killing God'']].

* In the pages of ''ComicBook/TheSandman'', as indeed in the original story, Orpheus manages to convince Hades and Persephone - the god and goddess of the land of the dead - to allow his lost love Eurydike to follow him back to the land of the living through the beauty of his music. It still doesn't end well.

* On ''[[Series/MysteryScienceTheatre3000 MST3K]]'', they spoof this trope while watching Jack Frost, specifically the scene where the girl has to finish her sock before the sun rises, and the girl asks the sun to wait.

* ''[[Film/BillAndTed Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey]]'' has them going to heaven to ask God for help, rather than to intervene and act himself, directly.

* Big Bird in the SesameStreet movie ''Don[='=]t Eat The Pictures'': when an Egyptian boy who died young and was forced to stay on Earth of thousands of years, goes before Osiris for judgment to ascend into the heavens, he initially fails the test. Osiris pronounces judgment, at which point Big Bird gets him straight with a [[TheReasonYouSuckSpeech reason the system sucks]] speech, causing the boy's heart to get lighter and thus pass the test. Read: Big Bird told the big boss of Egyptian mythology he didn't know what he was talking about, and got an afterlife verdict reversed.

* The protagonists of ''Literature/{{Everworld}}'' meet gods quite often, and usually try to reason with them to some degree. [[JerkassGods This rarely works]], but the [[GreekMythology Greek pantheon]] proved marginally more cooperative (at least when they got [[TheSmartGuy Athena]] on their side).

** [[VideoGame/StarTrekOnline Oh no they dont...]]

Compare DidYouJustPunchOutCthulhu, where mortals manage to defeat something infinitely more powerful. This trope is about mortal wits (or emotions) finding the right words to convince a superhuman intelligence. Compare/contrast BargainWithHeaven, DealWithTheDevil. Also not to be confused with PalsWithJesus, where the character has stable working relationship with higher powers.

* In the pages of ''TheSandman'', as indeed in the original story, Orpheus manages to convince Hades and Persephone - the god and goddess of the land of the dead - to allow his lost love Eurydike to follow him back to the land of the living through the beauty of his music. It still doesn't end well.

* In the resolution of the Mithgar series by Dennis L. [=McKiernan=], one of the protagonists essentially reasons with god that his "separation of the realms" directly contradicts his vow "to not interfere with the mortal realms", so he undoes the sundering/separation.

* In ''Series/BabylonFive'', Captain Sheridan manages to convince the Vorlons, an ancient powerful race so far beyond the younger races as to be nearly gods in comparison, to directly intervene on behalf on the younger races against the BigBad race called the Shadows. The Shadows are as powerful as the Vorlons and are their chief rival, however previously, the Vorlons would only use younger races as proxies against them rather than involving themselves directly in the fight.

* Laurie talks with Dr. Manhattan on Mars in ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'' and convinces him to come back to Earth to help with the current crisis. Of course, it's exactly what he ''told'' her would happen at the end of their conversation and why he swung back to Earth to pick her up when the time came.

** [[StarTrekOnline Oh no they dont...]]

* Earendil in ''Literature/TheSilmarillion'' successfully convinces the Valar to abandon their isolationist policies and save the Middle-Earth from Morgoth.
** Luthien also convinces Mandos to bring Beren back to life, in exchange for turning her into a mortal.

** Such as when Abraham persuaded God to spare Sodom if ten righteous men were found in the city (there wasn't).
*** Which actually spawned an interesting theological debate that still continues to this day. If God is omniscient, then he already knew there weren't ten righteous men to be found, so God's agreement to the pact merely delays a divine punishment he already decided on - in other words, God deceived Abraham. Conversely, if God did not deceive Abraham, this implies that God is not omniscient.
*** Doesn't seem that complex. "I know there aren't ten good people in there. But if there were, I wouldn't destroy the city."
*** Those in Favor of omniscience tend to argue that the discussion was for Abraham's benefit, he was having a crisis of faith over God's destruction of a city full of (presumed) innocents so God talked the issue over him and reassured him that he would spare the city if it wasn't really rotten to the core.
*** The theological debate kind of glosses over the reason why Abraham was reasoning with God in the first place, not only did he not want God to kill righteous men but specifically wanted God to spare his nephew Lot who was living there. While God did not think Sodom had enough righteous inhabitants to warrant sparring it, he did warn Lot and his family and tell them to leave beforehand. Moreover, God did not deceive Abraham because he kept their agreement; the Abraham did not know the specific conditions of the agreement were not met is irrelevant. And even if Abraham's and God's specific agreement on how many inhabitants would be necessary to spare the city was pointless, God still spared the righteous that were there, which was the whole purpose behind Abraham's reasoning in the first place.

** Such as when Abraham persuaded God to spare Sodom if ten righteous men were found in the city (they weren't).

* The conclusion of ''TheBlackTattoo.''

* Earendil in ''TheSilmarillion'' successfully convinces the Valar to abandon their isolationist policies and save the Middle-Earth from Morgoth.

* In the backstory for the ''{{Belgariad}}'', Gorim got UL to accept the would-be Ulgos as His chosen people with a combination of nagging and guilt-tripping.

* Several instances in ''IncarnationsOfImmortality'' of mortals at least attempting to convince Incarnations to intervene and change an event, most notably Niobe's efforts to reverse first husband Cedric's death. When Kerena can't get any Incarnation to listen to her (she's trying to save her baby's life), she [[spoiler: becomes Nox, Incarnation of Night, and launches a centuries-long series of plots and manipulations not only to get revenge on the Incarnations of her time, but to help place Incarnations she considers better for their jobs and to eventually gain back her child (sort of)]].
* The protagonists of ''{{Everworld}}'' meet gods quite often, and usually try to reason with them to some degree. [[JerkassGods This rarely works]], but the [[GreekMythology Greek pantheon]] proved marginally more cooperative (at least when they got [[TheSmartGuy Athena]] onside).

--> ''But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’" Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.''

--> ''But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky'" ''
---> -- Exodus 32:11-13

* In ''Series/{{Babylon 5}}'', Captain Sheridan manages to convince the Vorlons, an ancient powerful race so far beyond the younger races as to be nearly gods in comparison, to directly intervene on behalf on the younger races against the BigBad race called the Shadows. The Shadows are as powerful as the Vorlons and are their chief rival, however previously, the Vorlons would only use younger races as proxies against them rather than involving themselves directly in the fight.

* Laurie talks with Dr. Manhattan on Mars in ''ComicBook/{{Watchmen}}'' and convinces him to come back to Earth to help with the current crisis.