History Main / ItsHardSoItSucks

* ''VideoGame/JakIIRenegade'' was often criticized for its at times downright punishing difficulty, and the game is still infamous for just how hard it could be. This was likely because [[VideoGame/JakAndDaxterThePrecursorLegacy its predecessor]] was sometimes criticized for being [[ItsEasySoItSucks too easy]], but many would say that Creator/NaughtyDog went a little too far in the other direction. As a response, ''VideoGame/Jak3Wastelander'', while still challenging, was a considerably easier game. Official UsefulNotes/PlayStation Magazine, who gave ''Jak II'' 3 out of 5 stars for this very trope, opened up their much more positive 4.5 out of 5 review of ''Jak 3'' by assuring readers that it was nowhere near as tough as ''Jak II'' was.

** ''VideoGame/MegaManZero'' often gets hit with this. The original tetralogy, being on the UsefulNotes/GameBoyAdvance, often suffers from ScreenCrunch obscuring deadly hazards, highly aggressive bosses, and combination of [[MarathonLevel lengthy late-game levels]] and harshly [[VideoGameLives limited lives]]. The games are most notoriously infamous for their unforgiving [[GameplayGrading ranking system]], where upgrades and even entire ''weapons'' are locked behind high ranks that require nearly perfect play. Although there are Cyber-elves to give helpful attributes like extra health or attack buffs, they are relegated to being TooAwesomeToUse by most being [[LimitedUseMagicalDevice one-time use]], and using them ''at all'' will automatically deduct Zero's rank. {{Compilation Rerelease}}s of the series often include Easy modes that either lessen damage or give many powerful late-game items right from the start.

* Although it has a devout following of fans, the original ''VideoGame/{{Rayman}}'' could have become a classic alongside ''Franchise/SuperMarioBros'' and ''Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog'' had it not become so mind-numbingly and abruptly difficult once you hit Band Land. The UsefulNotes/GameBoyAdvance port even went out of its way to advertise that it was much easier.

Difficulty is a tricky thing to get right in games. A game must remain fun for most people, to challenge them and and keep them engaged. Completing a tough task or boss can supply a lot of satisfaction, especially if you've been trying for a while.

But too much difficulty can drive players away. During the transition to 8-bit to 16-bit, the difficulty of games began to be more scrutinized. Once games went 3D, both gamers and companies found that the high difficulty of several games made them inaccessible and a flawed left over from the days of arcade games that tried to be as unfair as possible to get more quarters. Since then, games in general went from NintendoHard to more accessible to today's gamers. Still, every once in a while, a game comes along that provides a challenge reminiscent of the {{Trope Namer}}s of NintendoHard. To some gamers, this is ridiculous. Video games are about fun, and frustration isn't fun! They're like black and white! Right?

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* ''VideoGame/MetroidDread'', while highly praised by critics and fans alike, drew some negative attention from people that cited that the game was simply too hard to enjoy thanks to the very high damage both regular enemies and bosses could inflict. One critic gained infamy when he trashed the game for getting stuck and blaming the game for having bad level design, despite how the game outright tells players to shoot every block to find a way forward. The game would eventually get an easy mode where damage taken is lessened, as well as (likely as a TakeThatCritics answer) a HarderThanHard mode where Samus becomes a OneHitPointWonder.
* This was the main criticism of ''VideoGame/DigimonWorld4''; considering that the one of the hero characters only has about four times the health of the game's [[TheGoomba Goombas]] and only a slightly faster attack, the pack of four enemies near the very beginning can easily kill a solo player. And for any newbies that encounter a [[BossInMooksClothing Crowned Enemy]] in the second section...

* The high difficulty is the main complaint of the NES version of ''VideoGame/DoubleDragon III''. You start with only one life, have no continues, and are fighting aggressive enemies that love to gang up on you.
-->'''WebVideo/TheAngryVideoGameNerd:''' I guess they were trying to make this one realistic. Like, if in real life, if you went out onto the streets to fight this many people at the same time, you'd get your ass handed to ya. And when you die once, that's it. You're brown bread. You're not coming back.
* IGN's review of ''VideoGame/DoubleDragonNeon'' cited the high difficulty and the fact that you had to start at the beginning of a stage if you lose all your lives. Ironic, considering how hard the original games are (see above), and that modern games have the convenience of save games...

* ''VideoGame/PAYDAYTheHeist'' and ''VideoGame/PAYDAY2'' tend to get criticism for having the difficulty being too brutal, even on the easier difficulty settings. SWAT can and will flank you and inflict a ton of damage if you're not careful and the [[EliteMook special SWAT]] will wreck anyone that tries to take them on alone. Most of the heists also tend to be very long and supplies are limited as well (ammo drops from cops give paltry amount of bullets and health kits can only be used a few times before they are depleted) while there are an infinite number of enemies. New players aren't often used to working together to finish the heist objectives that are actually required for to succeed. Overkill studio believes the games are fine where they are and feel the action is the juice, especially on the [[HarderThanHard Overkill 145+/Death Wish]] difficulties and there's a lot of fans that don't mind the high difficulty. Because the two games play similarly to ''VideoGame/Left4Dead'', many players from that game that try to play either ''PAYDAY'' game in the same way as ''Left 4 Dead'' will get absolutely wrecked and that can also bring the whole team down. And then they added two new difficulty levels, Mayhem and One Down.
* ''VideoGame/MedalOfHonorAlliedAssault'', specifically the ''Breakthrough'' ExpansionPack. While the base game and ''Spearhead'' are fondly remembered as some of the best entries in the ''VideoGame/MedalOfHonor'' series, this expansion gets a lot of flak from a ''very'' unpleasant SequelDifficultySpike that included health packs and ammo resupplies becoming much harder to come by, and objectives that are almost impossible to accomplish.

* Blizzard listened to complaints that ''Wrath of the Lich King'' heroic dungeons in ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' were [[ItsEasySoItSucks too easy]]. They fixed this with the ''Cataclysm'' dungeons. Later, people started complaining that heroics are too hard. (Blizzard's official statement is that they're happy with the difficulty of the heroics and that they'll become easier once groups start figuring out strategies and players get better gear from raiding. In other words, [[BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor deal with it.]])

* ''VideoGame/SonicUnleashed'', specifically the [=PS3=] and Xbox 360+ version, is one of the tougher games in the series. There's a lot of very unforgiving platforming over BottomlessPits, spiked hazards will punish you for boosting too recklessly and the game loves throwing reaction-based obstacles at you, which either require lightning-fast reflexes or strict memorization of the level design. There is a debate amongst Sonic fans and gaming critics over whether or not the game's difficulty is well-designed.
* ''VideoGame/LaMulana'' spits in the face of gamers of this mentality, saying in the manual that it's only for those hardcore players who feel the same way. Though even these hardcore players tend to find the game to be a bit much due to its brutal level design and [[GuideDangIt extremely obtuse puzzles.]]
* ''VideoGame/MirrorsEdge'' got this a lot from its detractors, with the argument being that the game's first-person perspective was unsuited to its gameplay style.
* ''VideoGame/HenryHatsworthInThePuzzlingAdventure'' was a critical darling, but got a substantial amount of flak for the fact that it's essentially a professionally-published example of PlatformHell.
* ''VideoGame/{{Battletoads}}'' is rather notorious for this, with its plethora of instant kill hazards, levels with gratuitous trial and error, and a metric ton of cheap moments that have to be completed with a piddling amount of lives. Even fans who have immense nostalgia for the game will admit that 90% of the stages are prime examples on how NOT to design game levels.
* Although it has a devout following of fans, the original ''VideoGame/{{Rayman}}'' could have become a classic alongside ''Franchise/SuperMarioBros'' and ''Franchise/SonicTheHedgehog'' had it not become so mind-numbingly and abruptly difficult once you hit Band Land. The UsefulNotes/GameBoyAdvance port even went out of its way to advertise that it was much easier.
* ''VideoGame/MetalSlug 3''. You [[ContestedSequel either]] love it because it's [[SequelEscalation one of the most epic games in the series]], or you hate it because your first few full runs took 40-60 continues each, most of them being in [[MarathonLevel the absolute monolith that is the final stage]]. And the western Xbox port ends up as a PortingDisaster by giving you limited continues which kick you back to the start of a stage ''[[ContinuingIsPainful regardless of its actual length]]'', meaning that if you weren't at a set skill level and couldn't really improve, you'd ''never'' reach the end of the game.
* One common criticism of ''VideoGame/TheAngryVideoGameNerdAdventures'' is that it mimics perhaps ''too'' well the frustrating old-school games the [=AVGN=] often complained about.
* ''VideoGame/JakIIRenegade'' was often criticized for its at times downright punishing difficulty, and the game is still infamous for just how hard it could be. This was likely because [[VideoGame/JakAndDaxterThePrecursorLegacy its predecessor]] was sometimes criticized for being [[ItsEasySoItSucks too easy]], but many would say that Creator/NaughtyDog went a little too far in the other direction. As a response, ''VideoGame/Jak3Wastelander'', while still challenging, was a considerably easier game. Official UsefulNotes/PlayStation Magazine, who gave ''Jak II'' 3 out of 5 stars for this very trope, opened up their much more positive 4.5 out of 5 review of ''Jak 3'' by assuring readers that it was nowhere near as tough as ''Jak II'' was.
* When campaigns were introduced to ''VideoGame/EverybodyEdits'', a common complaint was that there was too much focus on adding harder campaigns.
* The Chapter 9 DLC of ''VideoGame/{{Celeste}}'' was heavily criticized upon release for being crammed full of FakeDifficulty, taking the most frustrating parts of the original game and jacking them up to 10, having a horrendously uneven difficulty curve that jumps from manageable to teeth-gnashing and back on a dime, and generally being painfully difficult compared to the rest of the (already NintendoHard) game, to the point it just isn't fun to play. It's so incredibly hard, it's even soured a few fans' opinions on the game as a whole. Thank goodness for [[AntiFrustrationFeatures Assist mode]] being present for those who want to view the story without having to bang their heads against a wall or giving up and looking up the level on WebSite/YouTube...
* Death Wish mode, added in the Seal the Deal DLC of ''VideoGame/AHatInTime'', often gets this. You play through older levels, only stuffed to the brim with PlatformHell, [[TimedMission Timed Missions]] and brutal [[ChallengeRun Challenge Runs]]. [[SurpriseDifficulty Many players who had gotten used to the base games relatively low difficulty were certainly frustrated by the sudden difficulty spike.]]
* Even veteran players were suprised by the difficulty of ''VideoGame/CrashBandicoot4ItsAboutTime'', and the difficulty is the main complaint with the game. Not too surprising considering the levels here are mostly on par with [[VideoGame/CrashBandicoot1996 Sunset]] [[MarathonLevel Vista]], HundredPercentCompletion requires dreaded [[NoDeathRun No Death Runs]] ''multiple times per level'' and the levels themselves are full of PlatformHell sections that also require perfect timing and lightning reflexes.
* ''VideoGame/GeometryDash''. Within the first few month of this game, high difficulty would ward off the players, even main levels were thought hard, so many Demon levels used to get heavily disliked. This is what happened to second Top 1 demon of all time, "To The Grave", which became a Medium Demon, this is what happened to "Cant Let Troll", which became a Hard Demon etc. The exception would be the first demon, "Demon Park" and some very easy demons like "The Nightmare" and "The Lightning Road".

* ''[[VideoGame/TetrisTGM Tetris: The Grand Master]] 2'' (''[[ExpansionPack PLUS]]''), for those who started with [=TGM3=]. [=TGM3=] introduced a subtle change in the signature TGM rotation system that makes I-pieces easier to handle with, a feature necessitated by [=TGM3=]'s extreme speeds, as well as the introduction of the Hold Piece feature to [=TGM=]. So when a [=TGM3=] player tries to play [=TGM2=], especially at maximum drop speed...

* The ''VideoGame/{{Driver}}'' series tends to get this criticism from certain critics from time to time.

* Fans and critics both criticized the absurd increase in chart density in ''VideoGame/GuitarHero III'' (which marked the switch in developers from Creator/{{Harmonix}} to [[Creator/{{Activision}} Neversoft]]). The [[ThatOneLevel final set]] in ''particular'' ([[Music/{{Slayer}} 'Raining Blood']], [[Music/IronMaiden 'The Number of the Beast']], [[Music/{{Metallica}} 'One']] and 'Cliffs of Dover', followed by a [[ScrappyMechanic battle]] against Lou set to 'The Devil Went Down to Georgia') was considered by pretty much everyone to be a ''monumental'' DifficultySpike, and the point where most players would just give up and put the controller down.
* ''VideoGame/LocoRoco - Midnight Carnival'' got lower scores since many complained about its [[SurpriseDifficulty difficulty]]. Only a few of them complained about the control scheme not matching with the more challenging level design.

* ''VideoGame/PopnMusic'' up to ''pop'n music 19 TUNE STREET'' has only the Great, Good, and Bad judgements in most of its modes, other than Expert mode and Cho-Challenge mode, which feature the stricter Cool judgement and has more difficult scoring. When ''pop'n music 20 fantasia'' came around, the Cool judgement became mandatory in Normal mode, which led to a lot of complaints even from higher-end players, as Cools tend to take away emphasis from simply clearing boss songs. Worse, as of ''pop'n music Sunny Park'', all modes other than Battle mode have Cools enabled.

* ''VideoGame/EarthboundBeginnings'' tends to get this treatment sometimes even from dedicated fans of the series due to the copious RandomEncounters and lack of direction. Mt. Itoi, the last area of the game, in particular is notorious for being rushed in development and given an absurd DifficultySpike. There are a lot, but it's certainly more playable than some have made it out to be.
* ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'' and ''VideoGame/DemonsSouls'' often get this from their detractors.
* The ''Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei'' franchise gets a lot of this.
** Most people not accustomed to Creator/{{Atlus}}'s brand of difficulty tend to give up trying when they encounter the first WakeUpCallBoss. The high encounter rate, demons' tendencies to easily murder you in one or two turns if you have the wrong party setup, and [[WeCannotGoOnWithoutYou the player character's death resulting in an immediate game over]] certainly don't help matters either. Critics argue that the difficulty is often neither [[FakeDifficulty well-designed]] nor [[LuckBasedMission dependent on player skill]].
** ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIV'' was hit hard by this from fans who were more familiar with ''VideoGame/{{Persona 3}}'' and ''[[VideoGame/{{Persona4}} 4]]'', and found themselves smashing their [=3DSes=] and/or outright giving up due to the [[EarlyGameHell brutal early game]], which has led to ''IV''[='=]s {{memetic|Mutation}} status as "the ''VideoGame/DarkSouls'' of ''Franchise/{{Persona}}''". Ironically, ''IV'' suffers [[ItsEasySoItSucks the opposite]] when it comes to those who have played previous mainline ''Shin Megami Tensei'' games.

* ''VideoGame/MonsterHunter4 Ultimate'' gets this from series veterans who feel that the [[SuperMode Apex]] monsters add more frustration than fun to an already challenging game series.

* ''VideoGame/{{Touhou}}'':
** Most fans get into the franchise via {{Fanon}}, MemeticMutation, or music remixes, so they'll either attend a ''Touhou'' fan panel at {{Fan Convention}}s, where the host(s) will most likely demonstrate a later stage on Lunatic or an Extra Stage, often intimidating players from getting into the games, or they will look up videos of the games in order to understand the source material, only to express shock upon seeing a BossBattle. The ones that do try the games find them way too difficult even on Easy and will most likely RageQuit. The ''Touhou'' games are actually considered some of the easier BulletHell games, but don't EVER tell a struggling player that.
** Even amongst players, many feel that the 15th main game, ''VideoGame/TouhouKanjudenLegacyOfLunaticKingdom'', is too close to ''VideoGame/IWannaBeTheGuy'' for comfort, as the patterns are very brutal by their respective difficulty levels' standards in order to balance around the new Pointdevice Mode (which features {{checkpoint}}s and infinite lives), making them needlessly sadistic for Legacy Mode (i.e. traditional "limited lives and respawn where you died" mode). This is perhaps a case of BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor, as many players feel that the previous game, ''VideoGame/TouhouKishinjouDoubleDealingCharacter'', is particularly easy.
* As mentioned by WebVideo/TheAngryVideoGameNerd, ''VideoGame/SilverSurfer1990''. The game itself doesn't look bad; the main complaints are the DeadlyWalls and Silver Surfer being a OneHitPointWonder, never mind that these two tropes are shmup staples, although Silver Surfer's [[HitboxDissonance questionable hitbox]] may have something to do with it.

* People who have played ''VideoGame/BattleGaregga''. The ones who hate it do so due to the realistic bullet colors making them difficult to see, the DynamicDifficulty system being confusing to work out (with some methods of management including [[ViolationOfCommonSense missing powerups on purpose and DYING on purpose]]) and potentially cornering the player into an UnwinnableByDesign scenario if it is not managed properly.

* The ''VideoGame/DoDonPachi'' series is already hard enough, but ''[=DoDonPachi=] dai ou jou'' in particular gets a fair bit of criticism for pumping up the difficulty but without doing much to make the game more fun or accessible for people who may not be highly-skilled at BulletHell games. The game's Hyper mechanic certainly doesn't help, as the player is forced to use a Hyper if they have one in stock, and using Hypers raises the game's [[DynamicDifficulty rank]], something that can only be mitigated by bombing or dying. The ''[=DoDonPachi=] dai ou jou Black Label'' revision fixes up some of the rank-related criticisms, but the [=PS2=] port of ''DOJ'' is based on the original "White Label" instead and it took years for ''Black Label'' to be ported to consumer platforms (and even then the sole console port of it ended up being regarded as a PortingDisaster) and to be emulated in MAME (alongside the original "White Label" build).

* IGN's review of ''VideoGame/DoubleDragonNeon'' cited the high difficulty and the fact that you had to start at the beginning of a stage if you lose all your lives. Ironic, considering how hard the original games are (see above), and that we now have the modern convenience of save games...

* Blizzard listened to complaints that ''Wrath of the Lich King'' heroic dungeons in ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft'' were [[ItsEasySoItSucks too easy]]. They fixed this with the ''Cataclysm'' dungeons. [[UnpleasableFanbase Now people are complaining that heroics are too hard.]] (Blizzard's official statement is that they're happy with the difficulty of the heroics and that they'll become easier once groups start figuring out strategies and players get better gear from raiding. In other words, [[BeCarefulWhatYouWishFor deal with it.]])

* ''VideoGame/GeometryDash''. Within the first few month of this game, high difficulty would ward off the players, even main levels were thought hard, so many Demon levels used to get heavily disliked. This is what happened to second Top 1 demon of all time, "To The Grave", which is now a Medium Demon, this is what happened to "Cant Let Troll", which is now a Hard Demon etc. The exception would be the first demon, "Demon Park" and some very easy demons like "The Nightmare" and "The Lightning Road".

* ''VideoGame/KingdomHeartsBirthBySleep'' now has people complaining that the {{superboss}}es Vanitas's Lingering Spirit and Mysterious Figure are "too hard", as well as some other required bosses like Master Eraqus, Braig (with Aqua), and the Mad Treant are too hard. This is from the same fanbase that complained about how easy Sephiroth was in the first two games. Someone responded to this rather creatively:

* ''VideoGame/Shinobi2002'' isn't just a hard game, it is a NintendoHard game. Regular enemies are fairly easy enough, but there are [[CheckpointStarvation no checkpoints in levels]] unless you reach a boss, limites continues so you can reset the stage if the boss kills you too many times anyway, the dreaded {{Bottomless Pit|s}} that instantly kills you all over the place and precarious platforming ''and enemies'' over them, and some downright merciless boss fights to boot. And if that wasn't enough, from the second stage onwards your cursed sword will feed on your health bar if you don't kill fast enough, turning the rest of the game into a TimedMission. Reviewers thought the gameplay was cool and had potential, but were quick to critically pan the utterly brutal challenge the game throws out. ''VideoGame/Nightshade2003'' directly alleviated a number of these issues for a much more fair game while still having challenge -- and then bombed because of InvisibleAdvertising.

* ''VideoGame/{{Deathsmiles}}''[='=]'s 360 port was released not only in Japan, but also in North America and eventually Europe and Australia. When it was initially released in North America, [[DifficultyByRegion a lot of the slowdown present in the Japanese version was removed, making the game more difficult]]. Most players didn't seem to notice or mind, but a subset of players was particularly upset about this change, some even calling the game an outright PortingDisaster. The amusing part is, most of these complaining players are players who are experienced with the game. The game has since been patched to match the Japanese version in slowdown behavior.

* Creator/{{Toaplan}} shmups, [[SeinfeldIsUnfunny as innovative as they were for their time]], are derided by players newer to the shmup genre for having a lot of elements perceived as outdated and FakeDifficulty, such as {{Checkpoint}}s mixed in with [[ContinuingIsPainful losing all shot powerups when dying and respawning]], coupled with brutal enemy patterns and "sniper" enemies tnat mandate memorizing the entire game. Some go as far as to call Toaplan games outright ''kusoge'' (lit. "shit game"). The Japanese 1-player version of ''Same! Same! Same!'' (also known as ''VideoGame/FireShark'' in export markets) is perhaps worst about this, due to combining lightning-fast enemy bullets and a brutal 45-minute playthrough with a ''malicious'' power-up system that not only requires 3 power-up items to level up your weapon, but keeps weapon-change items bouncing around the screen, with many of those items being for the [[ScrappyWeapon green "beam" weapon]] that, if picked up, makes it much harder to destroy enemies on the side.

[[Administrivia/TropesAreTools Difficulty can be a legitimate complaint]], especially depending on what kind of difficulty. Sometimes the difficulty is too inconsistent and throws too much at the player at once and there's a ''huge'' difficulty spike. Other times a game is unforgiving in its design, like severely hurting or outright killing your character after just one or two hits without supplying many resources to recover. Then there are times the game has harsh penalties for when the player fails too much. In older games especially such punishments can be incredibly rough, from being forced back to the beginning of a set of levels to being forced to ''restart the entire game''.

Difficulty is a tricky thing to get right in games. It is essential for a game to remain fun for most people, it challenges the player and keeps them engaged. Completing a tough task or boss can supply a lot of satisfaction, especially after failing to it.

Too much difficulty though can drive some players away. During the transition to 8-bit to 16-bit, the difficulty of games began to be more scrutinized. Once games went 3D, both gamers and companies found that the high difficulty of several games made them inaccessible and a flawed left over from the days of arcade games that tried to be as unfair as possible to get more quarters. Since then, games in general went from NintendoHard to more accessible to today's gamers. Still, every once in a while, a game comes along that provides a challenge reminiscent of the {{Trope Namer}}s of NintendoHard. To some gamers, this is ridiculous. Video games are about fun, and frustration isn't fun! They're like black and white! Right?

The polar opposite of ItsEasySoItSucks, where a game lacks enough difficulty to be fun for most gamers. When people try to force the way they play the game (which generally has to do with difficulty) onto other people, you have a {{Scrub}} or a [[StopHavingFunGuys "Stop Having Fun" Guy]]. When you have both ItsEasySoItSucks and It's Hard, so It Sucks, you either have a deeply flawed game or an UnpleasableFanbase.

* 80% of all first-time ''VideoGame/SecondLife'' users only log in once and never come back. In comparison with typical {{MMORPG}}s and the new generation of virtual worlds, the learning curve is steeper by magnitudes, and unlike [=MMORPGs=], ''SL'' doesn't have any quests to go on, leaving the users to figure out what to do themselves. It's sometimes actually being criticized for its ''lack'' of {{Railroading}}.

The polar opposite of ItsEasySoItSucks, where a game lacks enough difficulty to be fun for most gamers. When people try to force the way they play the game (which generally has to do with difficulty) onto other people, you have a {{Scrub}} a or [[StopHavingFunGuys "Stop Having Fun" Guy]]. When you have both ItsEasySoItSucks and It's Hard, so It Sucks, you either have a deeply flawed game or an UnpleasableFanbase.

[[Administrivia/TropesAreTools Difficulty can be a legitimate complaint]], depending on what kind of difficulty. Sometimes the difficulty is too inconsistent and throws too much at the player at once and there's a ''huge'' difficulty spike. Other times a game is unforgiving in its design, like severely hurting or outright killing your character after just one or two hits without supplying many resources to recover. Then there are times the game has harsh penalties for when the player fails too much. In older games especially such punishments can be incredibly rough, in particular being forced back to the beginning a level, a set of levels, or even being forced to ''restart the entire game''.

* As mentioned by WebVideo/TheAngryVideoGameNerd, the VideoGame/SilverSurfer NES game. The game itself doesn't look bad; the main complaints are the DeadlyWalls and Silver Surfer being a OneHitPointWonder, never mind that these two tropes are shmup staples, although Silver Surfer's [[HitboxDissonance questionable hitbox]] may have something to do with it.