History Main / HobbesWasRight

* ''Literature/{{Exordia}}'': Iruvage claims that, as gleefully evil as the [[TheEmpire Exordia]] is, it's better than the previous state of the galaxy. Before the Exordia conquered everyone, interstellar wars over territory and resources exterminated no fewer than 125,604 different intelligent species; afterwards, that number dropped to 104, and the Exordia itself carried out three-quarters of those. For all of their very real oppression and cruelty, the galaxy is stabler under their control. Not happier, but stabler.

* ''ComicBook/JudgeDredd'' enforces this trope. The campaign to return democracy to Mega-City One ended miserably, as almost everyone who voted chose the judges, and the Judges have been shown to deliberately sabotage any efforts to campaign for democracy. Justified in that the Mega-City societies are already an unsafe place without judges to begin with anyways, and will quickly turn into an [[AnarchyIsChaos anarchic city-state]] if there weren't any Judges or other sensible [order-minded] forms of authority around. The possibility of voting in a non Judge is basically willingly giving up power to a criminal, [[TotalitarianGangsterism who now has the political clout to make the city their own criminal stronghold.]] It is also for the same reason why HumansAreMorons in this story.

* ''Series/KamenRiderOutsiders'': The artificial intelligence [[TheComputerIsYourFriend Zein]] lives and breathes with this mentality, given how the ''Franchise/KamenRider'' series runs on HumansAreTheRealMonsters as one of the franchise's recurring themes. The villains believe Zein is bent on wiping out humanity in order to create a {{utopia|JustifiesTheMeans}} based on eternal benevolence. Later on, this is taken on a darker light that Zein even plans to use a [[TheMostDangerousVideoGame a video game that kills people in real time]] to create a cannon fodder of players to be used as {{Sacrificial Lamb}}s against the villains, coming into the conclusion that [[InYourNatureToDestroyYourselves humans are capable of slaughtering one another]] so long as their capacity for evil remain inherent.

* ''Franchise/StarWars'': Officially, the ''raison d'etre'' of The Empire is that the weak, ineffectual Galactic Republic collapsed into a bloody and destructive civil war that killed hundreds of billions, and the Empire was created to enforce Peace and Order on the galaxy by ''any'' means necessary, no matter how draconian or genocidal, so that such a war can never happen again. ''Un''officially, The Empire is riddled with amoral, cutthroat careerists and led by a megalomaniac who actually ''engineered'' the civil war in the first place, and the whole "bringing Order to the galaxy" business is just an excuse to amass as much personal power as possible- however, from top to bottom their are many in the Empire (including Darth Vader) who honestly believe that the Empire is- or at least ''can'' be- a genuine tool for peace, and sincerely want to make the thing work for the sake of peace.

However, Hobbes was ''actually'' arguing that HumansAreFlawed and that even the most noble of us [[ConflictBall will end up fighting over]] ''[[ConflictBall something]]'', and he thought an all-powerful authoritarian government was the solution. It should be remembered that he fought in the UsefulNotes/EnglishCivilWar as a Royalist and it was very likely his experiences of it that shaped his views--in that regard, he was ultimately arguing that WarIsHell and was firmly on the side of [[OrderVersusChaos Order over Freedom]] because of it. For all this, this trope can be considered a counter-argument for OrderIsNotGood: Just because the side of freedom is considered the more 'moral' side doesn't mean it's totally safe, it can lead to a state of destruction and suffering when not kept in check, so no matter how bad and oppressive the Order is, this trope considers it either [[NecessarilyEvil something bad but also necessary]] or just the LesserOfTwoEvils.

* ''WesternAnimation/SouthPark'': WordOfGod says that this is what they believe, that humans are "born fucked up" and society just barely keeps them in check. In the show itself, the kids swear a lot and say a lot of sexist, racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and sociopathic things out of their parents' earshot, and more often than not, they're repeating terrible things they've overheard their parents say. The only noteworthy characters that seem to fully contradict this and are [[RousseauWasRight more on the other direction]] are [[TheWoobie But]][[CheerfulChild ters]], [[SaintlyChurch the Harrison family]], and oddly enough, [[SatanIsGood Satan.]]

* ''VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiI'''s neutral (and lawful) path basically support this. The Lawful path is essentially a BittersweetEnding where [[spoiler:everyone lives under YHVH's tyranny]], whereas the neutral path states that [[spoiler:laws are necessary if you don't want to devolve into a Darwinist barbarian society. Interestingly, the Chaos path however, portrays the idea of a darwinistic, barbarian world without order as a good idea for an ideal world.]]

* ''Franchise/ShinMegamiTensei'''s neutral (and lawful) path basically support this. The Lawful path is essentially a BittersweetEnding where [[spoiler:everyone lives under YHVH's tyranny]], whereas the neutral path states that [[spoiler:laws are necessary if you don't want to devolve into a Darwinist barbarian society. Interestingly, the Chaos path however, portrays the idea of a darwinistic, barbarian world without order as a good idea for an ideal world.]]

Named after the writer of the 17th-century book ''Literature/LeviathanThomasHobbes'', who believed that strong, centralized government is necessary to protect mankind from its own base nature and self-serving desires. The trope is based on a simplified version of his philosophy.

Naturally, this opinion goes hand in hand with the belief that HumansAreBastards, possibly HumansAreMorons if the arguments are about the reliability of human judgment if power is left in the hands of the many (though when one considers who the only available candidates for rulership are--namely, [[LogicBomb members of that same species of bastard morons]]…). Indeed, Rousseau--the chief defender of the contrary position--had some choice words for Hobbes (although Hobbes, being dead, couldn't appreciate the insults).

Contrast MachiavelliWasWrong and RousseauWasRight; compare and contrast TheExtremistWasRight, TheEvilsOfFreeWill, {{Realpolitik}} and UtopiaJustifiesTheMeans. [[JustForFun/IThoughtItMeant Has nothing to do]] with ''ComicStrip/CalvinAndHobbes'', though ''that'' Hobbes was named after this one. For Hobbes' views on the supernatural, see DevilButNoGod and BurnTheWitch.

That this be a ''benevolent'' dictatorship [[KnightTemplar is optional]] (in fact, the presence of a benevolent dictator would suggest Hobbes was ''wrong'').

* ''WesternAnimation/SouthPark'': WordOfGod says that this is what they believe, that humans are "born fucked up" and society just barely keeps them in check. In the show itself, the kids swear a lot and say a lot of sexist, racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and sociopathic things out of their parents' earshot, and more often than not, they're repeating terrible things they've overheard their parents say. The only noteworthy characters that seem to fully contradict this and are [[RousseauWasRight more on the other direction]] are [[TheWoobie But]][[CheerfulChild ters]], [[SaintlyChurch the Garrison family]], and oddly enough, [[SatanIsGood Satan.]]

* ''Literature/{{Starchild}}'': Invoked by Machine General Wheeler when he explains (or diatribes) why men cannot be allowed to live in freedom in the reefs of space. Mankind is inherently evil, and only the great [[MasterComputer Planning Machine]] can be trusted to make them do the right thing.

It should also be noted that Hobbes's purpose in writing Leviathan was ''not'' justifying doctrinaire monarchism; to Hobbes's mind, an elected assembly could act in the position of sovereign just as well as an individual monarch, and indeed this might be preferable in some ways. The point was to have all sovereign power invested in exactly one institution, decidedly ''not'' bound by law in its substantive powers, to ensure the physical security of the polity. This is, ultimately, what happened in Britain after the turmoil of the 17th century settled--all sovereign power ended up in the hands of one institution, but that institution was Parliament, not the monarch (who faded into the political background from 1688 onwards). One could say that the modern UsefulNotes/BritishPoliticalSystem, characterised by the doctrine of absolute Parliamentary sovereignty, is essentially Hobbesian in its structure.

It should also be noted that Hobbes's purpose in writing Leviathan was ''not'' justifying doctrinaire monarchism; to Hobbes's mind, an elected assembly could act in the position of sovereign just as well as an individual monarch, and indeed this might be preferable in some ways. The point was to have all sovereign power invested in exactly one institution, decidedly ''not'' bound by law in its substantive powers. This is, ultimately, what happened in Britain after the turmoil of the 17th century settled--all sovereign power ended up in the hands of one institution, but that institution was Parliament, not the monarch (who faded into the political background from 1688 onwards). One could say that the modern UsefulNotes/BritishPoliticalSystem, characterised by the doctrine of absolute Parliamentary sovereignty, is essentially Hobbesian in its structure.

However, Hobbes was ''actually'' arguing that HumansAreFlawed and that even the most noble of us [[ConflictBall will end up fighting over]] ''[[ConflictBall something]]'', and he thought an all-powerful authoritarian government was the solution. It should be remembered that he fought in the UsefulNotes/EnglishCivilWar as a Royalist and it was very likely his experiences of it that shaped his views--in that regard, he was ultimately arguing that WarIsHell and was firmly on the side of [[OrderVersusChaos Order over Freedom]] because of it. For this, this trope can be considered a counter-argument for OrderIsNotGood: Just because the side of freedom is considered the more 'moral' side doesn't mean it's totally safe, it can lead to a state of destruction and suffering when not kept in check, so no matter how bad and oppressive the Order is, this trope considers it either [[NecessarilyEvil something bad but also necessary]] or just the LesserOfTwoEvils.

Named after the writer of the 17th-century book ''Literature/LeviathanThomasHobbes'' that strong, centralized government is necessary to protect mankind from its own base nature and self-serving desires. The trope is based on a simplified version of his philosophy.