Follow TV Tropes

Following

History FridgeBrilliance / PokemonTheSeries

Go To

OR

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


--->'''Youtube User:''' Charmander was an abandoned and neglected Pokemon who was left compromised and vulnerable until rescued by Ash, its loyalty to it's previous trainer almost cost it its life. That's bound to have a fundamental effect on its perception of people and any new trainer. As a Charmander Ash was its safety net but I don't think it's a stretch to consider that it even then harbored ill feelings for people. The turning point was evolving into Charmeleon and becoming much stronger and as such not needing a caregiver any longer and evolving again into Charizard only exaggerates those feelings, I believe the subtext of the relationship between Charizard and Ash is that Ash loves Charizard but Charizard is unwilling to accept that bond for fear that it might someday be abandoned again so what does it do? It distances itself from Ash and refuses to listen and it is so over confident in its own power that it chooses to fight only when confronted with a foe it sees as worthy and even then ignores the commands it is given, Charizard wants to prove its strength for itself so that it knows it won't ever again have to be that vulnerable Charmander left alone when it isn't strong enough for its trainer. It was never about badges or being an experienced trainer, that wasn't important to Charizard. The reason their relationship changes is because when Charizard once again finds itself compromised after the battle with Poliwrath Ash stays with it and nurses its injuries until his hands are raw, the situation it always feared plays out and Ash rises to the occasion with an act of care and compassion that allows Charizard to to see the heart of its trainer. The love and respect that it was too afraid to reciprocate for fear of eventual rejection is finally realized and the unbreakable bond between trainer and Pokemon is forged through literal fire and ice. Ultimately Charizard is able to realize its true strength by fighting with Ash and for Ash, the collaboration makes them a better team and better friends. I know it's cliche but as far as I'm concerned it is proof of unwavering love that brings Charizard the ability to trust in its trainer and reach its potential.
** There's also an alternate but similar way to looking at Ash and Charizard's relationship. Charmander was abandoned by Damian for being "weak" but saw that it started to gain his respect when it proved its strength. But then Ash & co. made it clear that they didn't care about that, making Charmander view that he wouldn't have that his battle prowess wouldn't matter with Ash. But then what happened? After Pikachu, he became Ash's main battler as when you look back on it rarely was ever brought out of his ball outside of when the situation was dire. From battling a raging, fully evolved Pokemon by tapping into his inner rage to being in a submerged flooding ship to being lost in the mountains to fighting a Gym Leader who primarily uses status ailments and it starts to paint a picture. Charmander doesn't even seem to like battling, it looks visably uncomfortable in most of its fight (just look at how it performs Ember). The last time we see it as a meak Charmander, not only does it get put in a box with the much more stand-offish Bulbasaur and Squirtle, but it also has to push itself to the limit to stop a heard of fully evolved Pokemon, being congratulated for its strength before evolving and this is probably the moment that Charmeleon thought to itself "Well I guess Damian was right, how strong I am is all that matters. Even my new trainer thinks so. So if that's all I'm good for, then that's what I'll be. I'll show I'm the strongest." This is the birth of his BloodKnight peronality, where it decided it would only battle strong opponents to prove it's stronger and disobeying Ash because by this point it felt Ash didn't really care about him, ONLY how strong he was. So Charmeleon, then Charizard thought "Hey, I'll do they thing you want me to do, just give me someone strong to fight, until then, leave me alone." This was probably exaserbated by the Indigo League, where Charizard thought he was being tough by refusing to fight someone clearly weaker than him...then was declared the loser. So while he did act out more after this, he was more constructive in a passive-aggressive way (like forming a perfect ice sled for Ash but totally not because Ash told him to.) Then we get to Charizard Chills, where Charizard saw Ash selflessly try to save him, rubbing him to keep him warm to point of wearing the skin off his hands, which is the moment Charizard realized that Ash did always care for him, even if he lost. After this moment you can even see more of his happier, goofier Charmander traits start to reemerge. The point is that Charizard wasn't disobeying Ash because of and arbitrary number of badges or because it believed it own hype, it was ACTING the way it THOUGHT Ash wanted it to until it realized that he'd care for it no matter what.

to:

--->'''Youtube User:''' Charmander was an abandoned and neglected Pokemon who was left compromised and vulnerable until rescued by Ash, and its loyalty to it's its previous trainer almost cost it its life. That's bound to have a fundamental effect on its perception of people and any new trainer. As a Charmander Charmander, Ash was its safety net but I don't think it's a stretch to consider that it even then harbored ill feelings for people. The turning point was evolving into Charmeleon and becoming much stronger and as such not needing a caregiver any longer and evolving again into Charizard only exaggerates those feelings, I believe the subtext of the relationship between Charizard and Ash is that Ash loves Charizard but Charizard is unwilling to accept that bond for fear that it might someday be abandoned again so what does it do? It distances itself from Ash and refuses to listen and it is so over confident in its own power that it chooses to fight only when confronted with a foe it sees as worthy and even then ignores the commands it is given, Charizard wants to prove its strength for itself so that it knows it won't ever again have to be that vulnerable Charmander left alone when it isn't strong enough for its trainer. It was never about badges or being an experienced trainer, that wasn't important to Charizard. The reason their relationship changes is because when Charizard once again finds itself compromised after the battle with Poliwrath Ash stays with it and nurses its injuries until his hands are raw, the situation it always feared plays out and Ash rises to the occasion with an act of care and compassion that allows Charizard to to see the heart of its trainer. The love and respect that it was too afraid to reciprocate for fear of eventual rejection is finally realized and the unbreakable bond between trainer and Pokemon is forged through literal fire and ice. Ultimately Charizard is able to realize its true strength by fighting with Ash and for Ash, the collaboration makes them a better team and better friends. I know it's cliche but as far as I'm concerned it is proof of unwavering love that brings Charizard the ability to trust in its trainer and reach its potential.
** There's also an alternate but similar way to looking at Ash and Charizard's relationship. Charmander was abandoned by Damian for being "weak" but saw that it started to gain his respect when it proved its strength. But then Ash & co. made it clear that they didn't care about that, making Charmander view that he wouldn't have that his battle prowess wouldn't matter with Ash. But then what happened? After Pikachu, he became Ash's main battler as when you look back on it rarely was ever brought out of his ball outside of when the situation was dire. From battling a raging, fully evolved Pokemon by tapping into his inner rage to being in a submerged flooding ship to being lost in the mountains to fighting a Gym Leader who primarily uses status ailments and it starts to paint a picture. Charmander doesn't even seem to like battling, it looks visably uncomfortable in most of its fight (just look at how it performs Ember). The last time we see it as a meak meek Charmander, not only does it get put in a box with the much more stand-offish Bulbasaur and Squirtle, but it also has to push itself to the limit to stop a heard of fully evolved Pokemon, being congratulated for its strength before evolving and this is probably the moment that Charmeleon thought to itself "Well I guess Damian was right, how strong I am is all that matters. Even my new trainer thinks so. So if that's all I'm good for, then that's what I'll be. I'll show I'm the strongest." This is the birth of his BloodKnight peronality, where it decided it would only battle strong opponents to prove it's stronger and disobeying Ash because by this point it felt Ash didn't really care about him, ONLY how strong he was. So Charmeleon, then Charizard thought "Hey, I'll do they thing you want me to do, just give me someone strong to fight, until then, leave me alone." This was probably exaserbated by the Indigo League, where Charizard thought he was being tough by refusing to fight someone clearly weaker than him...then was declared the loser. So while he did act out more after this, he was more constructive in a passive-aggressive way (like forming a perfect ice sled for Ash but totally not because Ash told him to.) Then we get to Charizard Chills, where Charizard saw Ash selflessly try to save him, rubbing him to keep him warm to point of wearing the skin off his hands, which is the moment Charizard realized that Ash did always care for him, even if he lost. After this moment you can even see more of his happier, goofier Charmander traits start to reemerge. The point is that Charizard wasn't disobeying Ash because of and arbitrary number of badges or because it believed it own hype, it was ACTING the way it THOUGHT Ash wanted it to until it realized that he'd care for it no matter what.



* Iris's [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Iris%27s_Dragonite Dragonite]], which she caught near the end of season 15, doesn't know its species [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Hyper_Beam_(move) ultimate attack]]. It doesn't learn that attack until level 75 in [[Videogame/PokemonBlackandWhite the Unova games]]. So what if the reason it hasn't learned its ultimate attack is because it just evolved from Dragonair? That also explains why it hasn't learned [[UnstoppableRage Outrage]] either.

to:

* Iris's [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Iris%27s_Dragonite Dragonite]], Dragonite, which she caught near the end of season 15, doesn't know its his species [[http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Hyper_Beam_(move) ultimate attack]].attack, Hyper Beam. It doesn't learn that attack until level 75 in [[Videogame/PokemonBlackandWhite the Unova games]]. So what if the reason it hasn't learned its ultimate attack he doesn't know that move is because it he had just recently evolved from Dragonair? That also explains why it he hasn't learned [[UnstoppableRage Outrage]] either.



* Historically Ash has struggled the most with Pokemon who are MightyGlacier type battlers with Torterra, Sirfetch'd, Boldore, and Goodra to a lesser extent being infamous for their tendency to be worfed. Yet Snorlax, the slowest and bulkiest of them al, has frequently shown himself as one of Ash's best Pokemon time and time again? Why? A few reasons.

to:

* Historically Historically, Ash has struggled the most with Pokemon who are MightyGlacier type battlers with Torterra, Sirfetch'd, Boldore, and Goodra to a lesser extent being infamous for their tendency to be worfed. Yet Snorlax, the slowest and bulkiest of them al, has frequently shown himself as one of Ash's best Pokemon time and time again? Why? A few reasons.



** James grew up at the peak of nobilty, but his parents clearly don't love him a lot if they were to fake their own deaths to trick James into coming home and marry him to someone he hates. It's easy to see him as the nicest of the two considering he grew up rich; a comming thing with rich kids is that they are sheltered most of their lives so they have a more white vision of the world, which is shown with James several times. And unlike Jessie, James was searching a way to escape their overbearing parents and fiancee, so no wonder he joined Team Rocket. Which noble would think their child joined a criminal organisation?
* Considering how Trip relies mainly on his starter, that being Serperior, all of his team seems to fall behind with almost all of his Pokémon not being fully evolved yet (for all we know). Perhaps Trip didn't have the patience (or the will) to train all of his Pokémon. This might mirror some players in real-life. I mean, who didn't had a file where the only Pokémon they used was their starter?

to:

** James grew up at the peak of nobilty, but his parents clearly don't love him a lot if they were willing to fake their own deaths to trick James him into coming home and marry him to someone he hates. It's easy to see him as the nicest of the two considering he grew up rich; a comming common thing with rich kids is that they are sheltered most of their lives so they have a more white vision of the world, which is shown with James several times. And unlike Jessie, James was searching for a way to escape their his overbearing parents and fiancee, so no wonder he joined Team Rocket. Which noble would think their child joined a criminal organisation?
organization?
* Considering how Trip relies mainly on his starter, that being Serperior, all of his team seems to fall behind with almost all of his Pokémon not being fully evolved yet (for all we know). Perhaps Trip didn't have the patience (or the will) to train all of his Pokémon. This might mirror some players in real-life. I mean, After all, who didn't had have a file where the only Pokémon they used was their starter?



*** Take all this together and it's not strange that Trip has perhaps the worst track record among Ash's rivals. Players that relies exclusively on one or two Pokémon are known to lose several times in the games.

to:

*** Take all this together and it's not strange that Trip has perhaps the worst track record among Ash's rivals. Players that relies rely exclusively on one or two Pokémon are known to lose several times in the games.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Ash on the other hand, was slovenly and unprepared much of the time, essentially relying more on his sheer determination, luck and pity badges to compensate for his lack of preparation and skill. While his potential to be a great trainer was always there, the fact that his journey was inconsistent and oftentimes only met with success due to his opponents being less competent than him meant that by the time he entered the League, he was very arrogant and refused to recognize just how far behind he truly was as a trainer. This is reflected in his lackluster training regime for the many episodes prior to the League itself, and while he might have managed to pull off some good wins due to his creativity and determination, his ultimate loss only proved that those would only go so far in the face of a trainer with far better discipline and skill.
*** It's easy to see the disappointment towards [[HeroicBSOD his behavior after the loss as being too excessively harsh]], especially given that his team was exhausted due to being kidnapped, and having to make it back to the stadium on his own. However, while it was somewhat unfair, it was also not entirely unjustified given that if he HAD been more prepared as a trainer and had done more to improve his team's skills, he likely might not have lost the way he did (or at the least not as badly). After all, the only reason he lost in the end was because of Charizard's discipline problems, something that, regardless of his justified situation for being absent, was the end result of HIS poor training habits and lack of proper discipline. It would certainly explain why he takes training more seriously from that point forward.

to:

** Ash on the other hand, was slovenly and unprepared much of the time, essentially relying more on his sheer determination, luck and pity badges to compensate for his lack of preparation and skill. While his potential to be a great trainer was always there, the fact that his journey was inconsistent and oftentimes only met with success due to his opponents being less competent than him meant that by the time he entered the League, he was very arrogant and refused to recognize just how far behind he truly was as a trainer. This is reflected in his lackluster training regime for the many episodes prior to the League itself, and while he might have managed to pull off some good wins due to his creativity and determination, his ultimate loss against Ritchie only proved that those would only go so far in the face of a trainer with far better discipline and skill.
*** It's easy to see the disappointment towards [[HeroicBSOD his behavior after the loss as being too excessively harsh]], especially given that his team was exhausted due to being kidnapped, and having to make it back to the stadium on his own. However, while it was somewhat unfair, it was also not entirely unjustified given that if he HAD been more prepared as a trainer and had done more to improve his team's skills, he likely might have been able to get free and get back without as much exhaustion, and not have lost the way he did (or ([[CurbstompCushion or at the least not as badly).badly]]). After all, the only reason he lost in the end was because of Charizard's discipline problems, something that, regardless of his justified situation for being absent, was the end result of HIS poor training habits and lack of proper discipline. It would certainly explain why he takes training more seriously from that point forward.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


*** It's easy to see the disappointment towards [[HeroicBSOD his behavior after the loss as being too excessively harsh]], especially given that his team was exhausted due to being kidnapped, and having to make it back to the stadium on his own. However, while it was somewhat unfair, it was also not entirely unjustified given that if he HAD been more prepared as a trainer and had done more to improve his team's skills, he likely might not have lost the way he did (or at the least not as badly). After all, the only reason he lost in the end was because of Charizard's discipline problems, something that, regardless of his justified situation for being absent, was the end result of HIS poor training habits and lack of proper discipline. It would certainly explain why he takes training so much more seriously from that point forward.

to:

*** It's easy to see the disappointment towards [[HeroicBSOD his behavior after the loss as being too excessively harsh]], especially given that his team was exhausted due to being kidnapped, and having to make it back to the stadium on his own. However, while it was somewhat unfair, it was also not entirely unjustified given that if he HAD been more prepared as a trainer and had done more to improve his team's skills, he likely might not have lost the way he did (or at the least not as badly). After all, the only reason he lost in the end was because of Charizard's discipline problems, something that, regardless of his justified situation for being absent, was the end result of HIS poor training habits and lack of proper discipline. It would certainly explain why he takes training so much more seriously from that point forward.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Gary was a giant punk and jerk who thought extremely highly of himself, and for the longest time had the skills to back it up, especially compared to Ash's sloppyiness and lack of discipline. Furthermore, to inflate his ego, he went and collected more badges than needed and boasted several times that he was the strongest trainer of Pallet Town. However, this same egotism would end up blowing up in his face, both against the dangerous Mewtwo in the Viridian City Gym, and especially afterwards, when his reputation and prior bragging probably would have led to some of the other contestants finding him particularly dangerous. As a result, they probably built some countermeasures for his tactics and caught him flatfooted.

to:

** Gary was a giant punk and jerk who thought extremely highly of himself, and for the longest time had the skills to back it up, especially compared to Ash's sloppyiness and lack of discipline. Furthermore, to inflate his ego, he went and collected more badges than needed and boasted several times that he was the strongest trainer of Pallet Town. However, this same egotism would end up blowing up in his face, both against the dangerous Mewtwo in the Viridian City Gym, and especially afterwards, when his reputation and prior bragging probably would have led to some of the other contestants finding him particularly dangerous. As a result, they probably built some countermeasures for his tactics and caught him flatfooted.flatfooted, forcing him to face his limitations.



*** It's easy to see the disappointment towards [[HeroicBSOD his behavior after the loss as being too excessively harsh]], especially given that his team was exhausted due to being kidnapped, and having to make it back to the stadium on his own. However, while it was somewhat unfair, it was also not entirely unjustified given that if he HAD been more prepared as a trainer and had done more to improve his team's skills, he likely might not have lost the way he did (or at the least not as badly). After all, the only reason he lost in the end was because of Charizard's discipline problems, something that, regardless of his justified situation for being absent, was the end result of HIS poor training habits and lack of proper discipline.

to:

*** It's easy to see the disappointment towards [[HeroicBSOD his behavior after the loss as being too excessively harsh]], especially given that his team was exhausted due to being kidnapped, and having to make it back to the stadium on his own. However, while it was somewhat unfair, it was also not entirely unjustified given that if he HAD been more prepared as a trainer and had done more to improve his team's skills, he likely might not have lost the way he did (or at the least not as badly). After all, the only reason he lost in the end was because of Charizard's discipline problems, something that, regardless of his justified situation for being absent, was the end result of HIS poor training habits and lack of proper discipline. It would certainly explain why he takes training so much more seriously from that point forward.

Added: 1928

Changed: 1375

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Gary losing during the Indigo Plateau makes more sense if you think about it. Just to inflate his ego, he went and collected more badges than needed and boasted several times that he was the strongest trainer of Pallet Town. He must have built a reputation for himself but that must have lead to some of the other contestants finding him particularly dangerous so perhaps they built some countermeasures for his tactics.
** This would be something seen in later leagues, where Ash was fully capable of researching his opponents ahead of time (one notable example being Ash looking up Macy's team to know she has an Electabuzz to deal with Water Pokemon). While this wasn't a feature of Indigo, it is not hard to see this being in place in retrospect.

to:

* Both Gary losing during and Ash's defeats in their respective placements in the Indigo Plateau League not only makes more sense if you think about it. Just a lot of sense, but also ties in well with their respective variants of egotistic behavior:
** Gary was a giant punk and jerk who thought extremely highly of himself, and for the longest time had the skills to back it up, especially compared to Ash's sloppyiness and lack of discipline. Furthermore,
to inflate his ego, he went and collected more badges than needed and boasted several times that he was the strongest trainer of Pallet Town. He must have built a However, this same egotism would end up blowing up in his face, both against the dangerous Mewtwo in the Viridian City Gym, and especially afterwards, when his reputation for himself but that must and prior bragging probably would have lead led to some of the other contestants finding him particularly dangerous so perhaps dangerous. As a result, they probably built some countermeasures for his tactics.
**
tactics and caught him flatfooted.
***
This would be something seen in later leagues, where Ash was fully capable of researching his opponents ahead of time (one notable example being Ash looking up Macy's team to know she has an Electabuzz to deal with Water Pokemon). While this wasn't a feature of Indigo, it is not hard to see this being in place in retrospect.
** Ash on the other hand, was slovenly and unprepared much of the time, essentially relying more on his sheer determination, luck and pity badges to compensate for his lack of preparation and skill. While his potential to be a great trainer was always there, the fact that his journey was inconsistent and oftentimes only met with success due to his opponents being less competent than him meant that by the time he entered the League, he was very arrogant and refused to recognize just how far behind he truly was as a trainer. This is reflected in his lackluster training regime for the many episodes prior to the League itself, and while he might have managed to pull off some good wins due to his creativity and determination, his ultimate loss only proved that those would only go so far in the face of a trainer with far better discipline and skill.
*** It's easy to see the disappointment towards [[HeroicBSOD his behavior after the loss as being too excessively harsh]], especially given that his team was exhausted due to being kidnapped, and having to make it back to the stadium on his own. However, while it was somewhat unfair, it was also not entirely unjustified given that if he HAD been more prepared as a trainer and had done more to improve his team's skills, he likely might not have lost the way he did (or at the least not as badly). After all, the only reason he lost in the end was because of Charizard's discipline problems, something that, regardless of his justified situation for being absent, was the end result of HIS poor training habits and lack of proper discipline.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* While ''Best Wishes'' made the trio more competent as villains, most of their [[TeamRocketWins long term victories]] that actually earned Giovanni's approval tied in with their usual RedemptionPromotion, eg. stopping rival Team Plasma in an EnemyMine with Ash, saving BrainwashedAndCrazy Giovanni from destroying Unova, handing him Pokemon they earned through legitimate circumstances rather than stealing. Even Meowth's HeelFaceMole plot only got so far because he was genuinely helpful to the heroes and did good deeds. It only makes sense that after that, they decide to just go back to doing things their own way, where they do well in benevolent circumstances anyway, something ''XY'' has stayed consistent with.

to:

* While ''Best Wishes'' made the trio more competent as villains, most of their [[TeamRocketWins long term victories]] that actually earned Giovanni's approval tied in with their usual RedemptionPromotion, eg. stopping rival Team Plasma in an EnemyMine with Ash, saving BrainwashedAndCrazy Giovanni from destroying Unova, handing him Pokemon they earned through legitimate circumstances rather than stealing. Even Meowth's HeelFaceMole plot to act as TheMole only got so far because he was genuinely helpful to the heroes and did good deeds. It only makes sense that after that, they decide to just go back to doing things their own way, where they do well in benevolent circumstances anyway, something ''XY'' has stayed consistent with.


** Another thing to consider is that the Rocket Trio are kept on because of [[{{Determinator}} their sheer tenacity]]. The simple reality is that out of nearly every Rocket we've seen, the Rocket Trio are the only ones who have ''always'' kept. coming. back. No matter how many times they failed, no matter how many times they've made a mess of things, no matter how many times it would be easier for them to give up and find a better life, they just don't quit. And I think Giovanni, for all of his understandable frustration and varying degrees of displeasure at their incompetence, does to some small degree value that kind of single-minded determination. It's especially something that sticks out given that their former rivals Butch and Cassidy eventually retired, and there are no shortage of random grunts and former friends of the trio who have given up on Team Rocket to pursue other ventures.

to:

** Another thing to consider is that the Rocket Trio are kept on because of [[{{Determinator}} their sheer tenacity]]. The simple reality is that out of nearly every Rocket we've seen, the Rocket Trio are the only ones who have ''always'' kept. coming. back. No matter how many times they failed, no matter how many times they've made a mess of things, no matter how many times it would be easier for them to give up and find a better life, they just don't quit. And I think Giovanni, for all of his understandable frustration and varying degrees of displeasure at their incompetence, does to some small degree value that kind of single-minded determination. It's especially something that sticks out given that their former rivals Butch and Cassidy eventually retired, and there are no shortage of random grunts and former friends of the trio who have given up on Team Rocket to pursue other ventures.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** Another thing to consider is that the Rocket Trio are kept on because of [[Determinator their sheer tenacity]]. The simple reality is that out of nearly every Rocket we've seen, the Rocket Trio are the only ones who have ''always'' kept. coming. back. No matter how many times they failed, no matter how many times they've made a mess of things, no matter how many times it would be easier for them to give up and find a better life, they just don't quit. And I think Giovanni, for all of his understandable frustration and varying degrees of displeasure at their incompetence, does to some small degree value that kind of single-minded determination. It's especially something that sticks out given that their former rivals Butch and Cassidy eventually retired, and there are no shortage of random grunts and former friends of the trio who have given up on Team Rocket to pursue other ventures.

to:

** Another thing to consider is that the Rocket Trio are kept on because of [[Determinator [[{{Determinator}} their sheer tenacity]]. The simple reality is that out of nearly every Rocket we've seen, the Rocket Trio are the only ones who have ''always'' kept. coming. back. No matter how many times they failed, no matter how many times they've made a mess of things, no matter how many times it would be easier for them to give up and find a better life, they just don't quit. And I think Giovanni, for all of his understandable frustration and varying degrees of displeasure at their incompetence, does to some small degree value that kind of single-minded determination. It's especially something that sticks out given that their former rivals Butch and Cassidy eventually retired, and there are no shortage of random grunts and former friends of the trio who have given up on Team Rocket to pursue other ventures.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Another thing to consider is that the Rocket Trio are kept on because of [[Determinator their sheer tenacity]]. The simple reality is that out of nearly every Rocket we've seen, the Rocket Trio are the only ones who have ''always'' kept. coming. back. No matter how many times they failed, no matter how many times they've made a mess of things, no matter how many times it would be easier for them to give up and find a better life, they just don't quit. And I think Giovanni, for all of his understandable frustration and varying degrees of displeasure at their incompetence, does to some small degree value that kind of single-minded determination. It's especially something that sticks out given that their former rivals Butch and Cassidy eventually retired, and there are no shortage of random grunts and former friends of the trio who have given up on Team Rocket to pursue other ventures.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Despite the dismay of fans, Chloe and Dawn were really the only ones who could watch Ash's battle live.
** Misty, Brock, Cilan, Clemont, and Iris have jobs.
** Dawn is a coordinator but does so at her own discretion while May and Serena now have professional connections and stick to tight schedules (they were literally about to perform as they were wearing their costumes).
** Chloe and the Alola cast are students, and since this is a world-class event the organizers likely scheduled the battle on a weekend.
** Professor Oak can't bring Ash's entire roster, so it's cheaper to watch it remotely, and Delia has to keep him and Tracey company.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* How fitting is that Ash's first Pokemon League challenge ended because his Charizard lost to a Pikachu (by technicality), and now, his Pikachu defeated a Charizard to win the world championships.

to:

* How fitting is that Ash's first Pokemon League challenge ended because his Charizard lost to a Pikachu (by technicality), and now, his Pikachu defeated a Charizard Charizard, very much the proper battling way, to win the world championships.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* How fitting is that Ash's first Pokemon League challenge ended because his Charizard lost to a Pikachu (by technicality), and now, his Pikachu defeated a Charizard to win the world championships.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Considering how Trip relies manly on his starter, that being Serperior, all of his team seems to fall behind with almost all of his Pokémon not being fully evolved yet (for all we know). Perhaps Trip didn't have the patience (or the will) to train all of his Pokémon. This might mirror some players in real-life. I mean, who didn't had a file where the only Pokémon they used was their starter?

to:

* Considering how Trip relies manly mainly on his starter, that being Serperior, all of his team seems to fall behind with almost all of his Pokémon not being fully evolved yet (for all we know). Perhaps Trip didn't have the patience (or the will) to train all of his Pokémon. This might mirror some players in real-life. I mean, who didn't had a file where the only Pokémon they used was their starter?
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Considering how Trip relies manly on his starter, that being Serperior, all of his team seems to fall behind with almost all of his Pokémon not being fully evolved yet (for all we know). Perhaps Trip didn't have the patience (or the will) to train all of his Pokémon. This might mirror some players in real-life. I mean, who didn't had a file where the only Pokémon they used was their starter?
** Trip's only fully evolved Pokémon are Serperior and Conkeldurr. If you think about it, that's pretty interesting. We already established Serperior, but what about Conkeldurr? It's a small, easily forgettable detail, but Trip has won the Basic Badge. In the games, it's not unheard that players go and search for a Fighting-type in the Route next to Nacrene City before fighting Lenora and Timburr is among the most common Pokémon to be found there. The battle might have triggered the evolution in Gurdurr. Trip then would only need to find a way to trade his Pokémon and then trade it back, and that's how he got Conkeldurr.
*** Take all this together and it's not strange that Trip has perhaps the worst track record among Ash's rivals. Players that relies exclusively on one or two Pokémon are known to lose several times in the games.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Some of Alain's fans were rather enraged that his battle with Leon did him dirty despite winning the Kalos League. But let's face it. Despite being above Ash and Iris, Alain is perhaps the weakest of the Master Eight. Even if he's strong, all the other partecipants were Champions, meaning they were literally the best of the best of their respective regions. And Alain was pitted against the strongest trainer of the world who decided to use his strongest Pokémon right after one defeat. You don't feel as surprised as before are you?
** This is reflected even more later. Diantha is probably even stronger than Alain but Leon defeated her easily, taking out '''five''' of her Pokémon with only his Rillaboom. Poor Alain didn't stand a chance from the very beginning against such an opponent.

to:

* Some of Alain's fans were rather enraged that his battle with Leon did him dirty despite winning the Kalos League. But let's face it. Despite being above Ash and Iris, Alain is perhaps the weakest of the Master Eight. Even if he's strong, all the other partecipants participants were Champions, meaning they were literally the best of the best of their respective regions. And Alain is also the only one of the newer end (himself, Iris, and Ash) to not have defeated a Champion prior to the Masters Eight. He was able to hold his own agaisnt Steven, but Iris did defeat Alder and Ash defeated Iris and Wallace. Alain was pitted against the strongest trainer of the world world, Galar's champion Leon, who decided to use his strongest Pokémon right after one defeat. You don't feel as surprised as before are you?
defeat.
** This is reflected even more later. Diantha is probably even stronger than Alain but Leon defeated her easily, taking out '''five''' '''four''' of her Pokémon with only his Rillaboom. Poor Alain didn't stand a chance from the very beginning against such an opponent. If anything, the fact he did hold his own against Rillaboom is a testemant to Alain's own strength.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Some of Alain's fans were rather enraged that his battle with Leon did him dirty despite winning the Kalos League. But let's face it. Despite being above Ash and Iris, Alain is perhaps the weakest of the Master Eight. Even if he's strong, all the other partecipants were Champions, meaning they were literally the best of the best of their respective regions. And Alain was pitted against the strongest trainer of the world who decided to use his strongest Pokémon right after one defeat. You don't feel as surprised as before are you?
** This is reflected even more later. Diantha is probably even stronger than Alain but Leon defeated her easily, taking out '''five''' of her Pokémon with only his Rillaboom. Poor Alain didn't stand a chance from the very beginning against such an opponent.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Gary losing during the Indigo Plateau makes more sense if you think about it. Just to inflate his ego, he went and collected more badges than needed and boasted several times that he was the strongest trainer of Pallet Town. He must have built a reputation for himself but that must have lead to some of the other contestants finding him particularly dangerous so perhaps thay built some countermeasures for his tactics.

to:

* Gary losing during the Indigo Plateau makes more sense if you think about it. Just to inflate his ego, he went and collected more badges than needed and boasted several times that he was the strongest trainer of Pallet Town. He must have built a reputation for himself but that must have lead to some of the other contestants finding him particularly dangerous so perhaps thay they built some countermeasures for his tactics.

Added: 330

Changed: 32

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** This would be something seen in later leagues, where Ash was fully capable of researching his opponents ahead of time (one notable example being Ash looking up Macy's team to know she has an Electabuzz to deal with Water Pokemon). While this wasn't a feature of Indigo, it is not hard to see this being in place in retrospect.



** Jessie's terrible childhood also explains her extremely vain and selfish personality.

to:

** Jessie's terrible childhood also explains her extremely vain and selfish personality. She's trying to overcompensate.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Jessie and James are foils of each other.
** Jessie grew up extremely poor and most likely her mother (who is known to love her daughter a lot) had to join Team Rocket to raise her. So she must have known the worse part of society, making her more meterialistic and cynical, hence being the cruelest of the two. She probably joined Team Rocket for the same reason of her mother and perhaps she thought she might eventually find her if she were to join the same organisation her mother joined before going MIA.
** James grew up at the peak of nobilty, but his parents clearly don't love him a lot if they were to fake their own deaths to trick James into coming home and marry him to someone he hates. It's easy to see him as the nicest of the two considering he grew up rich; a comming thing with rich kids is that they are sheltered most of their lives so they have a more white vision of the world, which is shown with James several times. And unlike Jessie, James was searching a way to escape their overbearing parents and fiancee, so no wonder he joined Team Rocket. Which noble would think their child joined a criminal organisation?


Added DiffLines:

* Gary losing during the Indigo Plateau makes more sense if you think about it. Just to inflate his ego, he went and collected more badges than needed and boasted several times that he was the strongest trainer of Pallet Town. He must have built a reputation for himself but that must have lead to some of the other contestants finding him particularly dangerous so perhaps thay built some countermeasures for his tactics.
* An episode reveals that Jessie and her mother lived in very poor conditions, enough that during winter they literally had to eat snow. That might make more sense on why her (and her mother before her) joined Team Rocket. What do poor people do when they're desperate? They resort to crime.
** Jessie's terrible childhood also explains her extremely vain and selfish personality.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* One of the initial observations of the Masters Eight are in their similar team rosters. If we count Ash's reserves and discount any Pokemon not seen in the anime under their ownership we have three Dragonites (Lance, Iris, and Ash), three Charizards (Leon, Alain, Ash), two Metagross (Steven and Alain), and two Unfeazant (Alain and Ash), and if we add in their game teams the list expands further with such Pokemon as Aggron (Steven and Iris), Haxorus (Leon and Iris), Lucario (Cynthia and Ash), Hawlucha and Goodra (Diantha and Ash), and a fourth Charizard with Lance. Anyone who does see a real life competitive Pokemon tournament would see that this sort of overlap is actually fairly common. While none of them likely went in with that same idea in mind, the same factors would naturally have leaned in on their teams having some similarities.

to:

* One of the initial observations of the Masters Eight are in their similar team rosters. If we count Ash's reserves and discount any Pokemon not seen in the anime under their ownership we have three Dragonites (Lance, Iris, and Ash), three Charizards (Leon, Alain, Ash), two Metagross (Steven and Alain), two Hawlucha and Goodra (Diantha and Ash), and two Unfeazant (Alain and Ash), and if we add in their game teams the list expands further with such Pokemon as Aggron (Steven and Iris), Haxorus (Leon and Iris), Lucario (Cynthia and Ash), Hawlucha and Goodra (Diantha and Ash), and a fourth Charizard with Lance. Anyone who does see a real life competitive Pokemon tournament would see that this sort of overlap is actually fairly common. While none of them likely went in with that same idea in mind, the same factors would naturally have leaned in on their teams having some similarities.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* Froakie's backstory implies it was a disobidient Pokemon who rejected trainer after trainer due to high standards, something that comes off as an InformedFlaw for the large part. However, the one time it ''did'' disobey Ash was because it was hell bent on paying out Fletchling for upsetting Bonnie. This was immediately resolved by Ash showing he understood what was wrong and reasoning with Froakie, something it is surprised and touched by. In all likeliness, Froakie wasn't a renegade simply because trainers weren't good enough, it was because they didn't get its personality.

to:

* Froakie's backstory implies it was a disobidient Pokemon who rejected trainer after trainer due to high standards, something that comes off as an InformedFlaw for the large part. However, the one time it ''did'' disobey Ash was because it was hell bent on paying out Fletchling for upsetting Bonnie. This was immediately resolved by Ash showing he understood what was wrong and reasoning with Froakie, something it is surprised and touched by. In all likeliness, Froakie wasn't a renegade simply because trainers weren't good enough, it was because they didn't get its personality.personality, and likely fed stories to the Professor about how seemingly elitist it was.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* Froakie's backstory implies it was a disobidient Pokemon who rejected trainer after trainer due to high standards, something that comes off as an InformedFlaw for the large part. However, the one time it ''did'' disobey Ash was because it was hell bent on paying out Fletchling for upsetting Bonnie. This was immediately resolved by Ash showing he understood what was wrong and reasoning with Froakie, something it is surprised and touched by. In all likeliness, Froakie wasn't a renegade simply because trainers weren't good enough, it was because they didn't get its personality.

Added: 504

Removed: 710

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
I wouldn't call Paul's movesets Fridge Brilliance, it was definitely intentional by the writers knowing Steven's Metagross used Agility a few episodes later. They're already covered under Moveset Clone here.


* One notable bit about Paul's test battle for Ash before the Masters Eight is that not only did he used the same Pokemon as several of his possible opponents, but they all used very similar moves despite the three Pokemon all having a massive array of moves to potentially use. Lance loves himself a Hyper Beam and Red Gyarados did use Ice Fang against Leon. Cynthia's Garchomp has used Stone Edge, Dragon Claw, and Draco Meteor in the series previously. Of the three moves that Metagross used, two of them, Psychic and Meteor Mash, have been used by Steven's Metagross. The one move that this Metagross didn't share with Steven's known moveset at the time, Agility, was in fact used by ''Alain's'' Metagross.


Added DiffLines:

* It first seems like {{Fauxshadow}}ing for Paul to use Gyarados given that Ash never ended up fighting Lance. That said, notice how Paul's PrehensileTail strategy is very similar to how ''Cynthia's Milotic'' battles, a fellow snake-like Water-type that traps opponents in place for a point-blank physical move. Evidently, Paul's training with Gyarados held at least ''some'' weight, as Dracovish managed to get off a final attack while trapped, while Iris's Dragonite was completely helpless against it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** Another simpler reason might also be that when the trio have to do ''actual'' criminal activities instead of petty Pokémon theft, they are shown to be really good at it (as shown in Unova).


Added DiffLines:

* During Ash's fight with Cynthia, her Togekiss used Air Slash (mind that its ability is Serene Grace) on Lucario, but unlike before it didn't make him flinch. A week later, Ash's Lucario is released in ''Sword and Shield'' as a Mystery Gift and it turns out his ability is Inner Focus.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

** It also mirrors the games. In ''Sun and Moon'', the main character is the first Champion of Alola.


Added DiffLines:

** Add that Mimey is probably exhausted. Using several moves of chinese martial art to evade Hariyama's attacks and then trapping him in a cage of Reflect must have took a toll on him, also considering that he doesn't fight often.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* A bit of fridge awesome for Ash in his fight with Cynthia, Spiritomb is is implied to be a secret weapon of Cynthia's. No one knows she has one and its unusual movements and behavior makes it a rather unusual opponent to battle. Yet against Ash, she didn't just bring Spiritomb when she has at least two other Pokemon to choose from (Glaceon and Kommo-o), she brought it out first. If she could have kept Spiritomb a secret, it would have likely been a good surprise to use against Leon, just like it was very good at throwing Ash off. Yet she used it against Ash. The thing about Cynthia is, perhaps more than even Iris, she knows more about Ash than anyone else at the Masters Eight. She felt like she needed to use a secret weapon against him instead of risking it and saving Spiritomb for Leon. Cynthia respects Ash enough as an opponent she cannot afford any risks against him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** On that note, Fishious Rend has a secondary effect where the power of the move doubles if the user attacks first. Dracovish strikes before Dragonite could act, fufilling the requirement for the secondary effect to activate, thus Fishious Rend ended up doing a hefty amount of damage to Dragonite, also enough for a enhanced Ice Fang to finish him off.

to:

** On that note, Fishious Rend has a secondary effect where the power of the move doubles if the user attacks first.first, which is also later confirmed to be the case in [=JN118=] by Goh. Dracovish strikes before Dragonite could act, fufilling the requirement for the secondary effect to activate, thus Fishious Rend ended up doing a hefty amount of damage to Dragonite, also enough for a enhanced Ice Fang to finish him off.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


** One could suggest the same thing for Squirtle and its [[EleventhHourSuperpower Eleventh Hour Hydro Pump.]]

to:

** One could suggest the same thing for Squirtle and its [[EleventhHourSuperpower Eleventh Hour Hydro Pump.]]Pump]].


Added DiffLines:

* Why do Ash and friends keep falling for Team Rocket's disguises? Remember: the Pokemon anime is filled with characters who inexplicably look alike (Nurse Joys, Officer Jennys, Don Georges, etc.) and Jessie is established early on to be virtually identical to another unrelated woman named Jessibelle in everything but hairstyle and accent. They probably want to give the benefit of the doubt, or may even view the physical similarities as unremarkable or even not notice them at at all!

Added: 710

Changed: 1076

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* One notable bit about Paul's test battle for Ash before the Masters Eight is that not only did he used the same Pokemon as several of his possible opponents, but they all used very similar moves despite the three Pokemon all having a massive array of moves to potentially use. Lance loves himself a Hyper Beam and Red Gyarados did use Ice Fang against Leon. Cynthia's Garchomp has used Stone Edge, Dragon Claw, and Draco Meteor in the series previously. Of the three moves that Metagross used, two of them, Psychic and Meteor Mash, have been used by Steven's Metagross. The one move that this Metagross didn't share, Agility, was in fact used by ''Alain's'' Metagross.

to:

** There is also a case where different dynamics of competitive Pokemon is also present. Some of the shared roster, like Steven and Alain's Metagross, had moved into having similar moves and strategies (Agility Metagross). Meanwhile others go for completely different 'stat spreads' as it were, as Leon's Gigantamax Charizard used special attacks while Alain's Mega Charizard X's moveset was physical. Both of these aspects of competive battling, competing yet equally valid, are present with the Masters Eight.
* One notable bit about Paul's test battle for Ash before the Masters Eight is that not only did he used the same Pokemon as several of his possible opponents, but they all used very similar moves despite the three Pokemon all having a massive array of moves to potentially use. Lance loves himself a Hyper Beam and Red Gyarados did use Ice Fang against Leon. Cynthia's Garchomp has used Stone Edge, Dragon Claw, and Draco Meteor in the series previously. Of the three moves that Metagross used, two of them, Psychic and Meteor Mash, have been used by Steven's Metagross. The one move that this Metagross didn't share, share with Steven's known moveset at the time, Agility, was in fact used by ''Alain's'' Metagross.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Iris confirmed in ep.118 that Dracovish has Strong Jaw.


** One ability that a Dracovish can have is Strong Jaw, which increases the attack power of biting moves, and is implied to be Ash's Dracovish's ability as Iris realizes that it is more dangerous up close. The two moves it uses against Dragonite are Fishious Rend and Ice Fang, two moves that are powered by Strong Jaw.
** On that note, Fishious Rend has a secondary effect where if the user attacks before the target, the attack power of the move doubles. Dracovish strikes before Dragonite could act, fufilling the requirement for the secondary effect to activate, and if one considers the possibility of Dracovish having Strong Jaw, Fishious Rend ended up doing a hefty amount of damage to Dragonite, also enough for a enhanced Ice Fang to finish him off.

to:

** One As confirmed in [=JN118=], Dracovish’s ability that a Dracovish can have is Strong Jaw, which increases the attack power of biting moves, and is implied to be Ash's Dracovish's ability as Iris realizes that it is more dangerous up close. The two moves it uses against Dragonite are Fishious Rend and Ice Fang, two moves that are powered by Strong Jaw.
** On that note, Fishious Rend has a secondary effect where the power of the move doubles if the user attacks before the target, the attack power of the move doubles. first. Dracovish strikes before Dragonite could act, fufilling the requirement for the secondary effect to activate, and if one considers the possibility of Dracovish having Strong Jaw, thus Fishious Rend ended up doing a hefty amount of damage to Dragonite, also enough for a enhanced Ice Fang to finish him off.

Top