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Changed line(s) 35,38 (click to see context) from:
On the whole, Pete seems to have an overbearing determination to be a good father, but misunderstands how this works. In fact he may have it completely the wrong way around, since he thinks you can ''only'' be a good parent if you have a good child, and that a good child is one who is obedient, respectful and successful in life.
"Axed By Addition" hints at Pete's motivations. In this episode, Pete has a breakdown, because he is afraid PJ is dying. Listen to what Pete says. In the beginnings of his rant, he uses ArsonMurderAndJaywalking immediately followed by BreadEggsMilkSquick. This suggests that Pete honestly does not see a difference between making PJ use a handkerchief and sending him to obedience school for not cleaning his room. This, combined with the fact once referred to in the work page's AbusiveParents entry that Pete appears to mistake fear for respect, suggests that Pete honestly does not know the difference between discipline and abuse. And, much like the warning signs listed above are for abused children, this is very much TruthInTelevision for many abusive parents. The line that shows it the best? "I want you to know that all those nasty, horrible things I did to you were only done with the best intentions!" Pete's intentions were to discipline his child, but he ended up abusing him instead.
"Axed By Addition" hints at Pete's motivations. In this episode, Pete has a breakdown, because he is afraid PJ is dying. Listen to what Pete says. In the beginnings of his rant, he uses ArsonMurderAndJaywalking immediately followed by BreadEggsMilkSquick. This suggests that Pete honestly does not see a difference between making PJ use a handkerchief and sending him to obedience school for not cleaning his room. This, combined with the fact once referred to in the work page's AbusiveParents entry that Pete appears to mistake fear for respect, suggests that Pete honestly does not know the difference between discipline and abuse. And, much like the warning signs listed above are for abused children, this is very much TruthInTelevision for many abusive parents. The line that shows it the best? "I want you to know that all those nasty, horrible things I did to you were only done with the best intentions!" Pete's intentions were to discipline his child, but he ended up abusing him instead.
to:
"Axed By Addition"
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Changed line(s) 63,64 (click to see context) from:
'''Not a Woobie''': Does not suffer frequently.
to:
'''Not a Woobie''': Does Pistol does not suffer frequently.
frequently; she's happy.
Changed line(s) 69,70 (click to see context) from:
'''Not a Woobie''': Needs no sympathy, everything's under control.
to:
'''Not a Woobie''': Needs Peg ''needs'' no sympathy, everything's sympathy; she has everything under control.
Changed line(s) 73,76 (click to see context) from:
What do you call a character who gets the crap beaten out of him in practically every episode and has a general fan consensus of "sometimes", "rarely", "only once", or "never" feeling sorry for him? You call him a really successful version of TheChewToy. But many characters written as TheChewToy get treated as TheWoobie anyway. How to prevent that, aside from certain members of MisaimedFandom? Goof Troop did something well very few shows do; it made its {{Jerkass}} ChewToy a ''{{Jerkass}}''. Generally Pete's punishment will not seem disproportionate, though there are some possible exceptions, ''especially'' if you watched the show incompletely; thorough fans are more likely to think he deserves everything or most of what he gets. How did the show manage it? They gave him two innocent targets to work with regularly, who will be discussed right after...
'''Not a Woobie''': Both a {{Jerkass}} and TheChewToy
'''Not a Woobie''': Both a {{Jerkass}} and TheChewToy
to:
What do you call a character who gets the crap beaten out of him in practically every episode and has a general fan consensus of "sometimes", "rarely", "only once", or "never" feeling sorry for him? You call him a really successful version of TheChewToy. But many characters written as TheChewToy get treated as TheWoobie anyway. How to prevent that, aside from certain members of MisaimedFandom? Goof Troop did something well very few shows do; it made its {{Jerkass}} ChewToy a ''{{Jerkass}}''. ''serious'' {{Jerkass}}. No DracoInLeatherPants for Pete! Generally Pete's punishment will not seem disproportionate, though there are some possible exceptions, ''especially'' if you watched the show incompletely; thorough most fans are more likely to think bill agree that he deserves everything or most of what he gets. How did the show manage it? They gave him two innocent targets to work with regularly, on a regular basis, who will be discussed right after...
'''Not a Woobie''':Both Pete's not just TheChewToy, but a {{Jerkass}} and TheChewToy
as well.
'''Not a Woobie''':
Changed line(s) 81,82 (click to see context) from:
'''Not a Woobie''': Has minor/one-off/self-inflicted problems.
to:
'''Not a Woobie''': Has minor/one-off/self-inflicted problems.
Max is usually responsible for his own problems, which tend to be fleeting and once-off.
Changed line(s) 85,88 (click to see context) from:
Moment of truth time: Is Goofy a woobie? The answer is... maybe. He has the potential to be. TheWoobie, despite having a concrete definition, is still a subjective trope. While Pistol, Peg, Pete, and Max are not TheWoobie by definition, Goofy is trickier. He, like PJ, is an entirely sympathetic character, usually doesn't cause his own problems, gets picked on by others, and gets heartbreaking TearJerker moments on multiple occasions. But on the other hand, he usually either [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} doesn't notice]] or [[ThePollyanna doesn't care]], and is usually the most hilarious character on the show (as opposed to PJ whose lighthearted humorous side came out once in a blue moon until An Extremely Goofy Movie where he [[EarnYourHappyEnding earns his happy ending]]). We generally don't watch him because we want to soothe him, but we do feel that way sometimes.
'''Maybe a Woobie''': Has some of the right traits, but not primarily.
'''Maybe a Woobie''': Has some of the right traits, but not primarily.
to:
Moment of truth time: Is Goofy a woobie? The answer is... maybe. He has the potential to be. But TheWoobie, despite having a concrete definition, is still a subjective trope. While Pistol, Peg, Pete, and Max are not TheWoobie by definition, Goofy is trickier. He, like PJ, is an entirely sympathetic character, usually doesn't cause his own problems, gets picked on by others, and gets heartbreaking TearJerker moments on multiple occasions. But on the other hand, he usually either [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} doesn't notice]] or simply [[ThePollyanna doesn't care]], and care]]. While Max worries about being called a goof, Goofy's instinctive response is usually the most hilarious character on the show (as opposed to PJ whose lighthearted humorous side came out once in a blue moon until An Extremely Goofy Movie where tell him that he [[EarnYourHappyEnding earns his happy ending]]). shouldn't worry about what other people think. We generally don't watch him because we want to soothe him, but even if we do feel that way sometimes.
'''Maybe a Woobie''':Has some of Goofy goes through the right traits, motions of being a Woobie, but these are not primarily.
why we watch him.
'''Maybe a Woobie''':
Changed line(s) 91,92 (click to see context) from:
Really you can't get much more woobie than a kid who admitted he was never happy before in his life at age 11. And, y'know, thinks a day heavily punctuated with blatant child abuse is the best day ever. But the show really makes the poor kid work for it. Tragic backstory is all well and good, but what really makes this is that it ''didn't'' get better immediately. It got ''somewhat'' better (he does smile fairly frequently later on in the series) but it didn't ''truly'' get better until An Extremely Goofy Movie, the end of the series. PJ's [[AbusiveParents unenviable home life]] and resulting [[WellDoneSonGuy daddy issues]] are not the only reason we feel sorry for him, just the primary factor: we also have the fact that [[NoRespectGuy no one listens to him]] or [[TheCassandra believes him]], his [[ShrinkingViolet myriad]] [[NervousWreck mental]] [[ExtremeDoormat health]] [[TheEeyore problems]], and his [[LivingEmotionalCrutch dependence on Max]]. And this is the characterization of the character who is just as sweet as Goofy but a lot smarter.
to:
Really you can't get much more woobie than a kid who admitted he was never happy before in his life at until the age of 11. And, y'know, thinks a day heavily punctuated with blatant child abuse is the best day ever. But the show really makes the poor kid work for it. Tragic backstory is all well and good, but what really makes this puts him here is that it ''didn't'' get better immediately. It got ''somewhat'' better (he does smile fairly frequently later on in the series) but it didn't ''truly'' get better until An ''An Extremely Goofy Movie, Movie,'' the end finale of the series. PJ's [[AbusiveParents unenviable home life]] and resulting [[WellDoneSonGuy daddy issues]] are not the only reason we feel sorry for him, just the primary factor: we also have the fact that [[NoRespectGuy no one listens to him]] or [[TheCassandra believes him]], his resulting [[ShrinkingViolet myriad]] [[NervousWreck mental]] [[ExtremeDoormat health]] [[TheEeyore problems]], and his [[LivingEmotionalCrutch dependence on Max]]. Max]] as his closest and only friend. And this is the characterization characterisation of the character who is just as sweet innocent as Goofy but a lot smarter.
smart enough to recognise his miserable position.
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Changed line(s) 45,46 (click to see context) from:
When it comes to speculations of physical abuse, it's not a long jump to make, seeing as Pete is canonically violent, brutish and short-tempered both across his history as a Disney Villain, and in the program itself. He handles PJ roughly on a regular basis, even if he doesn't actively hit him on screen.
to:
When it comes to speculations suspicions of physical abuse, it's not a long jump huge leap to make, seeing as make. Not only is Pete is canonically violent, brutish and short-tempered both typecast as an antagonist across his history as a Disney Villain, character, but he is consistently a short-tempered, oafish, menacing brute rarely deserving of any respect or sympathy. Violence is not a speculation but something that comes naturally to him, and in the program itself. He handles for him not to inflict physical abuse on others would require a level of self-control that we ''know'' he does not possess. Even without explicit displays of physical abuse he has been seen handling PJ roughly on a regular basis, even if he doesn't actively hit him on screen.
for his age, especially considering PJ is his own son.
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Changed line(s) 61,62 (click to see context) from:
Pistol theoretically should have the same sort of chance for PJ to be TheWoobie, raised in the same environment. But nope. There are a variety of factors at play that make Pistol the ''least'' likely candidate out of all of the others. In order of importance they are: [[ParentalFavoritism she's the favorite]] and [[DaddysGirl loves her daddy very much]], [[CheerfulChild she's seldom seen without a smile]], [[SpoiledBrat she gets almost everything she wants]], [[BrattyHalfPint she's a brat]], and [[TinyTyrannicalGirl she has some degree of power]]. More so than anything, Pistol can't be the woobie because she's ''happy.'' Not "usually chipper", although she is that too. She has a pretty satisfying life, that even Max would envy. And this is why we only feel sorry for her in a couple of episodes at most.
to:
Pistol theoretically should have the same sort of chance for PJ to be TheWoobie, raised in the same environment.environment and reguarly exploited by her father for chores. But nope. There are a variety of factors at play that make Pistol the ''least'' likely candidate out of all of the others. In order of importance they are: [[ParentalFavoritism she's the favorite]] and [[DaddysGirl loves her daddy very much]], [[CheerfulChild she's seldom She's a CheerfulChild, rarely seen without a smile]], [[SpoiledBrat she gets almost everything she wants]], smile on her face. While her home-life isn't ideal, when it comes to a choice of PJ or Pistol, [[TheFavorite Pistol tends to come out on top,]] [[BrattyHalfPint she's considered something of a little brat]], and her position as the youngest child gives her [[TinyTyrannicalGirl she has some degree of power]].power]] which she has taken advantage of. More so than anything, Pistol can't be the woobie because she's ''happy.'' Not "usually chipper", although In comparison to other characters, she is that too. She has had a pretty satisfying life, life that even Max would might envy. And this is why we only feel sorry for her in a couple of episodes at most.
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Added DiffLines:
When it comes to speculations of physical abuse, it's not a long jump to make, seeing as Pete is canonically violent, brutish and short-tempered both across his history as a Disney Villain, and in the program itself. He handles PJ roughly on a regular basis, even if he doesn't actively hit him on screen.
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Deleted line(s) 41,42 (click to see context) :
Other motivations across the series appear to be that Pete wants PJ to succeed to make himself look good, or believes PJ's failure implies that he is somehow inferior. Note that PJ calls his father 'sir' on a regular basis when they speak. Max has never done this with Goofy. And even though Pete does not seem to treat Pistol as poorly as he does PJ, he is disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience.
Added DiffLines:
Other motivations across the series appear to be that Pete wants PJ to succeed to make himself look good, or believes PJ's failure implies that he is somehow inferior. Note that PJ calls his father 'sir' on a regular basis when they speak. Max has never done this with Goofy.
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Changed line(s) 37,40 (click to see context) from:
"Axed By Addition" hints at Pete's motivations. In this episode, Pete has a breakdown, because he is afraid PJ is dying. Listen to what Pete says. In the beginnings of his rant, he uses ArsonMurderAndJaywalking immediately followed by BreadEggsMilkSquick. This suggests that Pete honestly does not see a difference between making PJ use a handkerchief and sending him to obedience school for not cleaning his room. This, combined with the fact once referred to in the work page's AbusiveParents entry that Pete appears to mistake fear for respect, suggests that Pete honestly does not know the difference between discipline and abuse. This can actually explain both his treatment of PJ and of Pistol, whom he doesn't abuse. Rather, he spoils her--lets her run off with very little discipline. And, much like the warning signs listed above are for abused children, this is very much TruthInTelevision for many abusive parents. The line that shows it the best? "I want you to know that all those nasty, horrible things I did to you were only done with the best intentions!" Pete's intentions were to discipline his child, but he ended up abusing him instead.
"Meanwhile Back at the Ramp" is another episode that shows dissonance between Pete's mind and PJ's. When the trophy is being given to the best father/son pair in town, Pete assumes he is the best father. PJ blankly stares the whole time; he doesn't think they'll win or even look disappointed that he knows they won't. When Goofy's name is (unsurprisingly) called, and Goofy accidentally knocks Pete into his food, PJ giggles. He tries to stifle it a bit, but the audience knows--PJ is absolutely not taken with his father's parenting and finds it amusing to see that other people agree with him. Just like in "A Goofy Movie," Pete does believe that his parenting methods are good. Many abusive parents do not simply deny the allegations of abuse to protect themselves; they do not realize they're doing it at all.
"Meanwhile Back at the Ramp" is another episode that shows dissonance between Pete's mind and PJ's. When the trophy is being given to the best father/son pair in town, Pete assumes he is the best father. PJ blankly stares the whole time; he doesn't think they'll win or even look disappointed that he knows they won't. When Goofy's name is (unsurprisingly) called, and Goofy accidentally knocks Pete into his food, PJ giggles. He tries to stifle it a bit, but the audience knows--PJ is absolutely not taken with his father's parenting and finds it amusing to see that other people agree with him. Just like in "A Goofy Movie," Pete does believe that his parenting methods are good. Many abusive parents do not simply deny the allegations of abuse to protect themselves; they do not realize they're doing it at all.
to:
"Axed By Addition" hints at Pete's motivations. In this episode, Pete has a breakdown, because he is afraid PJ is dying. Listen to what Pete says. In the beginnings of his rant, he uses ArsonMurderAndJaywalking immediately followed by BreadEggsMilkSquick. This suggests that Pete honestly does not see a difference between making PJ use a handkerchief and sending him to obedience school for not cleaning his room. This, combined with the fact once referred to in the work page's AbusiveParents entry that Pete appears to mistake fear for respect, suggests that Pete honestly does not know the difference between discipline and abuse. This can actually explain both his treatment of PJ and of Pistol, whom he doesn't abuse. Rather, he spoils her--lets her run off with very little discipline. And, much like the warning signs listed above are for abused children, this is very much TruthInTelevision for many abusive parents. The line that shows it the best? "I want you to know that all those nasty, horrible things I did to you were only done with the best intentions!" Pete's intentions were to discipline his child, but he ended up abusing him instead.
"Meanwhile Back at the Ramp" is another episode that shows dissonance between Pete's mind and PJ's. When the trophy is being given to the best father/son pair in town, Pete assumes he is the best father. PJ blankly stares the whole time; he doesn't think they'll win or even look disappointed that he knows they won't. When Goofy's name is (unsurprisingly) called, and Goofy accidentally knocks Pete into his food, PJ giggles. He tries to stifle it a bit, but the audienceknows--PJ knows - PJ is absolutely not taken with his father's parenting and finds it amusing to see that other people agree with him. Just like in "A Goofy Movie," Pete does believe that his parenting methods are good. Many abusive parents do not simply deny the allegations of abuse to protect themselves; they do not realize they're doing it at all.
"Meanwhile Back at the Ramp" is another episode that shows dissonance between Pete's mind and PJ's. When the trophy is being given to the best father/son pair in town, Pete assumes he is the best father. PJ blankly stares the whole time; he doesn't think they'll win or even look disappointed that he knows they won't. When Goofy's name is (unsurprisingly) called, and Goofy accidentally knocks Pete into his food, PJ giggles. He tries to stifle it a bit, but the audience
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On the whole, Pete seems to have an overbearing determination to be a good father, but misunderstands how this works. In fact he may have it completely the wrong way around, since he thinks you can ''only'' be a good parent if you have a good child, and that a good child is one who is obedient, respectful and successful in life.
Changed line(s) 41,44 (click to see context) from:
As for Pistol, her being his 'favorite' is not as clear as it might seem. While as a girl and the younger child she is certainly handled more delicately, Pete has also tricked ''her'' into doing endless chores for a few cents alongside PJ, and generally seems disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience - in "Pistolgeist" he refuses her request to read to him in favour of watching the ball game, in "Baby Makes Three" he isn't even listening when she asks him for a baby brother, and prepares to turn her room into a nursery for the new baby, while planning to move her in with PJ. Other times he sees playing with her as a chore to be delegated to PJ. The irony is that he ends up spending more father time with PJ, but is more abusive to him in the process.
On the whole, Pete seems to have an overbearing determination to be a good father, but misunderstands how this works, seemingly thinking that a parent is judged on the obedience and tangible successes of their child, rather than the quality of their life, love for their family life and emotional stability.
On the whole, Pete seems to have an overbearing determination to be a good father, but misunderstands how this works, seemingly thinking that a parent is judged on the obedience and tangible successes of their child, rather than the quality of their life, love for their family life and emotional stability.
to:
As for Pistol, her being his 'favorite' is not as clear as it might seem. While as a girl and the younger child she is certainly handled more delicately, Pete has also tricked ''her'' into doing endless chores for a few cents alongside PJ, and generally seems disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience - in "Pistolgeist" he refuses her request to read to him in favour of watching the ball game, in "Baby Makes Three" he isn't even listening when she asks him for a baby brother, and prepares to turn her room into a nursery for the new baby, while planning to move her in with PJ. Other times he sees playing with her as a chore to be delegated to PJ. The irony is that he ends up spending more father 'father' time with PJ, but is more abusive to him in the process.
On the whole, Pete seems to have an overbearing determination to be a good father, but misunderstands how this works, seemingly thinking that a parent is judged on the obedience and tangible successes of their child, rather than the quality of their life, love for their family life and emotional stability.
process.
On the whole, Pete seems to have an overbearing determination to be a good father, but misunderstands how this works, seemingly thinking that a parent is judged on the obedience and tangible successes of their child, rather than the quality of their life, love for their family life and emotional stability.
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Changed line(s) 39,42 (click to see context) from:
Other motivations across the series appear to be that Pete wants PJ to succeed to make himself look good, or believes PJ's failure implies that he is somehow inferior, whether regarding intelligence or his overbearing determination to prove that he is a good father, and seems to think that part of this is proved by having an obedient, respectful son. Note that PJ calls his father 'sir' on a regular basis when they speak. Max has never done this with Goofy. And even though Pete does not seem to treat Pistol as poorly as he does PJ, he is disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience.
As for Pistol, her being his 'favorite' is not as clear as it might seem. While as a girl and the younger child she is certainly handled more delicately, Pete has also tricked ''her'' into doing endless chores for a few cents alongside PJ, and generally seems disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience - in "Pistolgeist" he refuses her request to read to him in favour of watching the ball game, in "Baby Makes Three" he isn't even listening when she asks him for a baby brother, and he generally sees playing with her as a chore to be delegated to PJ. The irony is that he ends up spending more time with PJ, but is more abusive to him in the process.
As for Pistol, her being his 'favorite' is not as clear as it might seem. While as a girl and the younger child she is certainly handled more delicately, Pete has also tricked ''her'' into doing endless chores for a few cents alongside PJ, and generally seems disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience - in "Pistolgeist" he refuses her request to read to him in favour of watching the ball game, in "Baby Makes Three" he isn't even listening when she asks him for a baby brother, and he generally sees playing with her as a chore to be delegated to PJ. The irony is that he ends up spending more time with PJ, but is more abusive to him in the process.
to:
Other motivations across the series appear to be that Pete wants PJ to succeed to make himself look good, or believes PJ's failure implies that he is somehow inferior, whether regarding intelligence or his overbearing determination to prove that he is a good father, and seems to think that part of this is proved by having an obedient, respectful son.inferior. Note that PJ calls his father 'sir' on a regular basis when they speak. Max has never done this with Goofy. And even though Pete does not seem to treat Pistol as poorly as he does PJ, he is disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience.
As for Pistol, her being his 'favorite' is not as clear as it might seem. While as a girl and the younger child she is certainly handled more delicately, Pete has also tricked ''her'' into doing endless chores for a few cents alongside PJ, and generally seems disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience - in "Pistolgeist" he refuses her request to read to him in favour of watching the ball game, in "Baby Makes Three" he isn't even listening when she asks him for a baby brother, and prepares to turn her room into a nursery for the new baby, while planning to move her in with PJ. Other times hegenerally sees playing with her as a chore to be delegated to PJ. The irony is that he ends up spending more father time with PJ, but is more abusive to him in the process.
process.
On the whole, Pete seems to have an overbearing determination to be a good father, but misunderstands how this works, seemingly thinking that a parent is judged on the obedience and tangible successes of their child, rather than the quality of their life, love for their family life and emotional stability.
As for Pistol, her being his 'favorite' is not as clear as it might seem. While as a girl and the younger child she is certainly handled more delicately, Pete has also tricked ''her'' into doing endless chores for a few cents alongside PJ, and generally seems disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience - in "Pistolgeist" he refuses her request to read to him in favour of watching the ball game, in "Baby Makes Three" he isn't even listening when she asks him for a baby brother, and prepares to turn her room into a nursery for the new baby, while planning to move her in with PJ. Other times he
On the whole, Pete seems to have an overbearing determination to be a good father, but misunderstands how this works, seemingly thinking that a parent is judged on the obedience and tangible successes of their child, rather than the quality of their life, love for their family life and emotional stability.
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Changed line(s) 39,40 (click to see context) from:
Other motivations across the series appear to be that Pete wants PJ to succeed to make himself look good, or believes PJ's failure implies that he is somehow inferior, whether regarding intelligence or his overbearing determination to prove that he is a good father, and seems to think that part of this is proved by having an obedient, respectful son. Note that PJ calls his father 'sir' on a regular basis when they speak. Max has never done this with Goofy.
to:
Other motivations across the series appear to be that Pete wants PJ to succeed to make himself look good, or believes PJ's failure implies that he is somehow inferior, whether regarding intelligence or his overbearing determination to prove that he is a good father, and seems to think that part of this is proved by having an obedient, respectful son. Note that PJ calls his father 'sir' on a regular basis when they speak. Max has never done this with Goofy.
Goofy. And even though Pete does not seem to treat Pistol as poorly as he does PJ, he is disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience.
As for Pistol, her being his 'favorite' is not as clear as it might seem. While as a girl and the younger child she is certainly handled more delicately, Pete has also tricked ''her'' into doing endless chores for a few cents alongside PJ, and generally seems disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience - in "Pistolgeist" he refuses her request to read to him in favour of watching the ball game, in "Baby Makes Three" he isn't even listening when she asks him for a baby brother, and he generally sees playing with her as a chore to be delegated to PJ. The irony is that he ends up spending more time with PJ, but is more abusive to him in the process.
As for Pistol, her being his 'favorite' is not as clear as it might seem. While as a girl and the younger child she is certainly handled more delicately, Pete has also tricked ''her'' into doing endless chores for a few cents alongside PJ, and generally seems disinclined to listen to her or spend time with her at his inconvenience - in "Pistolgeist" he refuses her request to read to him in favour of watching the ball game, in "Baby Makes Three" he isn't even listening when she asks him for a baby brother, and he generally sees playing with her as a chore to be delegated to PJ. The irony is that he ends up spending more time with PJ, but is more abusive to him in the process.
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Changed line(s) 15,18 (click to see context) from:
# [[WellDoneSonGuy Often feeling guilty for not living up to his father's expectations]] and overly responsible for often age-inappropriate tasks in general, which is shown best in "To Heir Is Human", "From Air to Eternity", and "Tub Be or Not Tub Be"
# Hopelessly pessimistic, which is shown best in basically every Max episode
# Despondent much of the time, which is shown best in the majority of his focus episodes and both halves of the pilot
# Often unaware he deserves any sort of courtesy at all, which shows up in both movies and a lot of Max episodes
# Hopelessly pessimistic, which is shown best in basically every Max episode
# Despondent much of the time, which is shown best in the majority of his focus episodes and both halves of the pilot
# Often unaware he deserves any sort of courtesy at all, which shows up in both movies and a lot of Max episodes
to:
# [[WellDoneSonGuy Often feeling feels guilty for not living up to his father's expectations]] and overly responsible for often tasks that can be age-inappropriate tasks in general, or downright impossible, which is shown best in "To Heir Is Human", "From Air to Eternity", and "Tub Be or Not Tub Be"
# Hopelesslypessimistic, pessimistic and usually despondent, which is shown best in basically every Max episode
# Despondent much of the time, which is shown best in the majority of his focus episodesepisode and both halves of the pilot
pilot.
# Often unaware he deserves anysort of courtesy respect at all, which shows up in both movies and a lot of Max episodesepisodes.
# Hopelessly
# Despondent much of the time, which is shown best in the majority of his focus episodes
# Often unaware he deserves any
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Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
# In comparison to Max, disproportionately terrified of incurring his father's wrath, including [[YouAreGrounded being grounded]] (as in, forced to stay in the same house), which is shown best in "Pistolgeist" and "A Goofy Movie" for the former ("My dad is going to crush me like a bug"), "Axed By Addition" and "Bringin' on the Rain" for the latter.
to:
# In comparison to Max, disproportionately Disproportionately terrified of incurring his father's wrath, wrath in comparison to Max, including [[YouAreGrounded being grounded]] (as in, forced to stay in the same house), which is shown best in "Pistolgeist" and "A Goofy Movie" for the former ("My dad is going to crush me like a bug"), former, "Axed By Addition" and "Bringin' on the Rain" for the latter.
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Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
# Sometimes afraid to go home, which "A Goofy Movie" shows the best
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# Sometimes afraid to go home, which "A Goofy Movie" shows the bestbest.
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# Repeatedly terrified of his father’s harsh punishments including being disproportionately horrified of [[YouAreGrounded being grounded]], which is shown best in "Pistolgeist" and "A Goofy Movie" for the former, "Axed By Addition" and "Bringin' on the Rain" for the latter
# Uncomfortable whenever Pete touches him, shown fairly well in both "Good Neighbor Goof" and "Winter Blunderland"
# Unlikely to want to spend time with his dad, which is shown the best in "Slightly Dinghy" and "Waste Makes Haste"
# Uncomfortable whenever Pete touches him, shown fairly well in both "Good Neighbor Goof" and "Winter Blunderland"
# Unlikely to want to spend time with his dad, which is shown the best in "Slightly Dinghy" and "Waste Makes Haste"
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# Repeatedly terrified of his father’s harsh punishments including being In comparison to Max, disproportionately horrified terrified of incurring his father's wrath, including [[YouAreGrounded being grounded]], grounded]] (as in, forced to stay in the same house), which is shown best in "Pistolgeist" and "A Goofy Movie" for the former, former ("My dad is going to crush me like a bug"), "Axed By Addition" and "Bringin' on the Rain" for the latter
latter.
# Uncomfortable whenever Pete touches him, shown fairly well in both "Good Neighbor Goof" and "WinterBlunderland"
Blunderland".
# Unlikely to want to spend time with his dad, which is shown the best in "Slightly Dinghy" and "Waste MakesHaste"Haste".
# Uncomfortable whenever Pete touches him, shown fairly well in both "Good Neighbor Goof" and "Winter
# Unlikely to want to spend time with his dad, which is shown the best in "Slightly Dinghy" and "Waste Makes
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Other motivations across the series appear to be that Pete wants PJ to succeed to make himself look good, or believes PJ's failure implies that he is somehow inferior, whether regarding intelligence or his overbearing determination to prove that he is a good father, and seems to think that part of this is proved by having an obedient, respectful son. Note that PJ calls his father 'sir' on a regular basis when they speak. Max has never done this.
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Other motivations across the series appear to be that Pete wants PJ to succeed to make himself look good, or believes PJ's failure implies that he is somehow inferior, whether regarding intelligence or his overbearing determination to prove that he is a good father, and seems to think that part of this is proved by having an obedient, respectful son. Note that PJ calls his father 'sir' on a regular basis when they speak. Max has never done this.
this with Goofy.
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Other motivations across the series appear to be that Pete wants PJ to succeed to make himself look good, or believes PJ's failure implies that he is somehow inferior, whether regarding intelligence or his overbearing determination to prove that he is a good father, and seems to think that part of this is proved by having an obedient, respectful son. Note that PJ calls his father 'sir' on a regular basis when they speak. Max has never done this.
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Now, there's another possibility and that's that Social Services ''does'' exist, and PJ has tried talking to them and they just flat-out didn't believe him. Given his role on the show as TheCassandra and how many abuse victims, once again, in real life, are not believed, especially when the brand of abuse apparently doesn't come with visible scars/bruises... it's not too hard to imagine.
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Now, there's another possibility and that's that Social Services ''does'' exist, exist. This too is disturbing, but TruthInTelevision that the fear and PJ has tried talking to mistrust an abused child feels, leads them to simply not trust anybody enough to tell them. When he likes, Pete can put on an excellent act of being a loving, devoted father. At 11 years old, and they just flat-out didn't believe him. Given without friends, PJ might not know his role situation is abnormal, or how to report his problems. We don't see any physical scars on PJ. He wears long sleeves and a neck-high sweater most of the show as TheCassandra and how many abuse victims, once again, in real life, are not believed, especially when the brand of abuse apparently doesn't come with visible scars/bruises... time anyway. Thus far, it's not too hard to imagine.
all been going on behind closed doors.
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# [[LivingEmotionalCrutch A little bit too reliant on Max’s company]], most obviously shown in "Good Neighbor Goof" and "Slightly Dinghy"
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# [[LivingEmotionalCrutch A little bit too reliant on Max’s company]], most obviously shown in "Good Neighbor Goof" and "Slightly Dinghy"Dinghy".
# Has difficulty making new friends and approaching people - Max seems to be the only company PJ has, even in school. Even when they go to college and Bobby joins the group, their circle of friendship is extremely close-knit.
# Has difficulty making new friends and approaching people - Max seems to be the only company PJ has, even in school. Even when they go to college and Bobby joins the group, their circle of friendship is extremely close-knit.
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!! AbusiveParents and SocialServicesDoesNotExist
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!! TheWoobie: An interesting element of character diversity.
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!!! Pistol
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!!! Peg
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!!! Pete
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!!! Max
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!!! Goofy
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!!! PJ
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!!! The Warning Signs
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!!! Major Red Flags
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!!! Pete's Motivations
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!!! SocialServicesDoesNotExist
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'''Definitely a woobie''': Fits all the criteria perfectly including gaining the unconditional fandom alternate name "Poor PJ."
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'''Definitely a woobie''': Fits all the criteria perfectly including gaining the unconditional fandom alternate name "Poor PJ.""
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"Axed By Addition" hints at Pete's motivations. In this episode, Pete has a breakdown, because he is afraid PJ is dying. Listen to what Pete says. In the beginnings of his rant, he uses ArsonMurderAndJaywalking immediately followed by BreadEggsMilkSquick. This suggests that Pete honestly does not see a difference between making PJ use a handkerchief and sending him to obedience school for not cleaning his room. This, combined with the fact referred to in the work page's AbusiveParents entry that Pete appears to mistake fear for respect, suggests that Pete honestly does not know the difference between discipline and abuse. This can actually explain both his treatment of PJ and of Pistol, whom he doesn't abuse. Rather, he spoils her--lets her run off with very little discipline. And, much like the warning signs listed above are for abused children, this is very much TruthInTelevision for many abusive parents. The line that shows it the best? "I want you to know that all those nasty, horrible things I did to you were only done with the best intentions!" Pete's intentions were to discipline his child, but he ended up abusing him instead.
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"Axed By Addition" hints at Pete's motivations. In this episode, Pete has a breakdown, because he is afraid PJ is dying. Listen to what Pete says. In the beginnings of his rant, he uses ArsonMurderAndJaywalking immediately followed by BreadEggsMilkSquick. This suggests that Pete honestly does not see a difference between making PJ use a handkerchief and sending him to obedience school for not cleaning his room. This, combined with the fact once referred to in the work page's AbusiveParents entry that Pete appears to mistake fear for respect, suggests that Pete honestly does not know the difference between discipline and abuse. This can actually explain both his treatment of PJ and of Pistol, whom he doesn't abuse. Rather, he spoils her--lets her run off with very little discipline. And, much like the warning signs listed above are for abused children, this is very much TruthInTelevision for many abusive parents. The line that shows it the best? "I want you to know that all those nasty, horrible things I did to you were only done with the best intentions!" Pete's intentions were to discipline his child, but he ended up abusing him instead.
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Moment of truth time: Is Goofy a woobie? The answer is... maybe. He has the potential to be. TheWoobie, despite having a concrete definition, is still a subjective trope. While Pistol, Peg, Pete, and Max are not TheWoobie by definition, Goofy is trickier. He, like PJ, is an entirely sympathetic character, usually doesn't cause his own problems, gets picked on by others, and gets heartbreaking TearJerker moments on multiple occasions. But on the other hand, he usually either [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} doesn't notice]] or [[ThePollyanna doesn't care]], and is usually the most hilarious character on the show.
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Moment of truth time: Is Goofy a woobie? The answer is... maybe. He has the potential to be. TheWoobie, despite having a concrete definition, is still a subjective trope. While Pistol, Peg, Pete, and Max are not TheWoobie by definition, Goofy is trickier. He, like PJ, is an entirely sympathetic character, usually doesn't cause his own problems, gets picked on by others, and gets heartbreaking TearJerker moments on multiple occasions. But on the other hand, he usually either [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} doesn't notice]] or [[ThePollyanna doesn't care]], and is usually the most hilarious character on the show.show (as opposed to PJ whose lighthearted humorous side came out once in a blue moon until An Extremely Goofy Movie where he [[EarnYourHappyEnding earns his happy ending]]). We generally don't watch him because we want to soothe him, but we do feel that way sometimes.
'''Maybe a Woobie''': Has some of the right traits, but not primarily.
!!! PJ
Really you can't get much more woobie than a kid who admitted he was never happy before in his life at age 11. And, y'know, thinks a day heavily punctuated with blatant child abuse is the best day ever. But the show really makes the poor kid work for it. Tragic backstory is all well and good, but what really makes this is that it ''didn't'' get better immediately. It got ''somewhat'' better (he does smile fairly frequently later on in the series) but it didn't ''truly'' get better until An Extremely Goofy Movie, the end of the series. PJ's [[AbusiveParents unenviable home life]] and resulting [[WellDoneSonGuy daddy issues]] are not the only reason we feel sorry for him, just the primary factor: we also have the fact that [[NoRespectGuy no one listens to him]] or [[TheCassandra believes him]], his [[ShrinkingViolet myriad]] [[NervousWreck mental]] [[ExtremeDoormat health]] [[TheEeyore problems]], and his [[LivingEmotionalCrutch dependence on Max]]. And this is the characterization of the character who is just as sweet as Goofy but a lot smarter.
'''Definitely a woobie''': Fits all the criteria perfectly including gaining the unconditional fandom alternate name "Poor PJ."
'''Maybe a Woobie''': Has some of the right traits, but not primarily.
!!! PJ
Really you can't get much more woobie than a kid who admitted he was never happy before in his life at age 11. And, y'know, thinks a day heavily punctuated with blatant child abuse is the best day ever. But the show really makes the poor kid work for it. Tragic backstory is all well and good, but what really makes this is that it ''didn't'' get better immediately. It got ''somewhat'' better (he does smile fairly frequently later on in the series) but it didn't ''truly'' get better until An Extremely Goofy Movie, the end of the series. PJ's [[AbusiveParents unenviable home life]] and resulting [[WellDoneSonGuy daddy issues]] are not the only reason we feel sorry for him, just the primary factor: we also have the fact that [[NoRespectGuy no one listens to him]] or [[TheCassandra believes him]], his [[ShrinkingViolet myriad]] [[NervousWreck mental]] [[ExtremeDoormat health]] [[TheEeyore problems]], and his [[LivingEmotionalCrutch dependence on Max]]. And this is the characterization of the character who is just as sweet as Goofy but a lot smarter.
'''Definitely a woobie''': Fits all the criteria perfectly including gaining the unconditional fandom alternate name "Poor PJ."
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'''Not a Woobie''': Does not suffer frequently.
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Peg seems an odd choice for the next round, since she is less happy than Goofy and Max generally, and is much more sympathetic than Pete (but I'll get back to them later). Really despite being the more sympathetic partner in a NoAccountingForTaste relationship, we can't really call her a LoveMartyr for one big reason: she has more power than anyone else on the show. Now, Pete, as the antagonist, has power over everyone else, though he chooses not to exercise it over Pistol terribly often. [[FieryRedhead Peg can boss him around.]] [[MamaBear She also has the role of the unconditional protector of the entire cast.]] Basically, even if Peg's life could be better, she doesn't need our sympathy, because she can take care of herself.
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Peg seems an odd choice for the next round, since she is less happy than Goofy and Max generally, and is much more sympathetic than Pete (but I'll get back to them later). Really despite being the more sympathetic partner in a NoAccountingForTaste relationship, we can't really call her a LoveMartyr for one big reason: she has more power than anyone else on the show. Now, Pete, as the antagonist, has power over everyone else, though he chooses not to exercise it over Pistol terribly often. [[FieryRedhead Peg can boss him around.]] [[MamaBear She also has the role of the unconditional protector of the entire cast.]] Basically, even if Peg's life could be better, she doesn't need our sympathy, because she can take care of herself.herself.
'''Not a Woobie''': Needs no sympathy, everything's under control.
!!! Pete
What do you call a character who gets the crap beaten out of him in practically every episode and has a general fan consensus of "sometimes", "rarely", "only once", or "never" feeling sorry for him? You call him a really successful version of TheChewToy. But many characters written as TheChewToy get treated as TheWoobie anyway. How to prevent that, aside from certain members of MisaimedFandom? Goof Troop did something well very few shows do; it made its {{Jerkass}} ChewToy a ''{{Jerkass}}''. Generally Pete's punishment will not seem disproportionate, though there are some possible exceptions, ''especially'' if you watched the show incompletely; thorough fans are more likely to think he deserves everything or most of what he gets. How did the show manage it? They gave him two innocent targets to work with regularly, who will be discussed right after...
'''Not a Woobie''': Both a {{Jerkass}} and TheChewToy
!!! Max
Ah, Max Goof. He isn't in power, or completely satisfied, nor is he a {{Jerkass}} who deserves what he gets. So why don't we feel strong sympathy for him most of the time? Well, because Max's problems just aren't that big. Most of the things he has to deal with are problems everyone has to deal with and he treats them like a bigger deal than they are. Now, [[DistressedDude some of Max's problems are pretty extreme]]. But what makes them different is that they are, for one thing, fleeting, and for another, usually his own fault due to his [[FearlessFool reckless behavior]] or [[HighSchoolHustler biting off more than he can chew]]. Or, sometimes, [[AntiHero he does engage in underhanded tactics that backfire]], such as lying to Roxanne ''and'' Goofy for the entire second act of A Goofy Movie.
'''Not a Woobie''': Has minor/one-off/self-inflicted problems.
!!! Goofy
Moment of truth time: Is Goofy a woobie? The answer is... maybe. He has the potential to be. TheWoobie, despite having a concrete definition, is still a subjective trope. While Pistol, Peg, Pete, and Max are not TheWoobie by definition, Goofy is trickier. He, like PJ, is an entirely sympathetic character, usually doesn't cause his own problems, gets picked on by others, and gets heartbreaking TearJerker moments on multiple occasions. But on the other hand, he usually either [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} doesn't notice]] or [[ThePollyanna doesn't care]], and is usually the most hilarious character on the show.
'''Not a Woobie''': Needs no sympathy, everything's under control.
!!! Pete
What do you call a character who gets the crap beaten out of him in practically every episode and has a general fan consensus of "sometimes", "rarely", "only once", or "never" feeling sorry for him? You call him a really successful version of TheChewToy. But many characters written as TheChewToy get treated as TheWoobie anyway. How to prevent that, aside from certain members of MisaimedFandom? Goof Troop did something well very few shows do; it made its {{Jerkass}} ChewToy a ''{{Jerkass}}''. Generally Pete's punishment will not seem disproportionate, though there are some possible exceptions, ''especially'' if you watched the show incompletely; thorough fans are more likely to think he deserves everything or most of what he gets. How did the show manage it? They gave him two innocent targets to work with regularly, who will be discussed right after...
'''Not a Woobie''': Both a {{Jerkass}} and TheChewToy
!!! Max
Ah, Max Goof. He isn't in power, or completely satisfied, nor is he a {{Jerkass}} who deserves what he gets. So why don't we feel strong sympathy for him most of the time? Well, because Max's problems just aren't that big. Most of the things he has to deal with are problems everyone has to deal with and he treats them like a bigger deal than they are. Now, [[DistressedDude some of Max's problems are pretty extreme]]. But what makes them different is that they are, for one thing, fleeting, and for another, usually his own fault due to his [[FearlessFool reckless behavior]] or [[HighSchoolHustler biting off more than he can chew]]. Or, sometimes, [[AntiHero he does engage in underhanded tactics that backfire]], such as lying to Roxanne ''and'' Goofy for the entire second act of A Goofy Movie.
'''Not a Woobie''': Has minor/one-off/self-inflicted problems.
!!! Goofy
Moment of truth time: Is Goofy a woobie? The answer is... maybe. He has the potential to be. TheWoobie, despite having a concrete definition, is still a subjective trope. While Pistol, Peg, Pete, and Max are not TheWoobie by definition, Goofy is trickier. He, like PJ, is an entirely sympathetic character, usually doesn't cause his own problems, gets picked on by others, and gets heartbreaking TearJerker moments on multiple occasions. But on the other hand, he usually either [[{{Cloudcuckoolander}} doesn't notice]] or [[ThePollyanna doesn't care]], and is usually the most hilarious character on the show.
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Now, there's another possibility and that's that Social Services ''does'' exist, and PJ has tried talking to them and they just flat-out didn't believe him. Given his role on the show as TheCassandra and how many abuse victims, once again, in real life, are not believed, especially when the brand of abuse apparently doesn't come with visible scars/bruises... it's not too hard to imagine.
to:
Now, there's another possibility and that's that Social Services ''does'' exist, and PJ has tried talking to them and they just flat-out didn't believe him. Given his role on the show as TheCassandra and how many abuse victims, once again, in real life, are not believed, especially when the brand of abuse apparently doesn't come with visible scars/bruises... it's not too hard to imagine.imagine.
!! TheWoobie: An interesting element of character diversity.
PJ is TheWoobie, which is pretty much undeniable. The show went all out to make sure we damn well felt sorry for that kid, and so we did. But what about the other characters? TheWoobie is a nebulous concept that's often hard to define. Though Analysis.TheWoobie sheds ''some'' light on the issue, it really does depend on many factors. But it's not meaningless, nor should it be so ridiculously strict that only someone like PJ (who according to the PlayingWith page qualifies as a justified exaggeration, not to mention his specific primary source of suffering was chosen for the hypothetical straight example) could ''possibly'' count. So here, we'll go step by step explaining what traits each character has that makes them, can make them, or prevents them from being, TheWoobie.
!!! Pistol
Pistol theoretically should have the same sort of chance for PJ to be TheWoobie, raised in the same environment. But nope. There are a variety of factors at play that make Pistol the ''least'' likely candidate out of all of the others. In order of importance they are: [[ParentalFavoritism she's the favorite]] and [[DaddysGirl loves her daddy very much]], [[CheerfulChild she's seldom seen without a smile]], [[SpoiledBrat she gets almost everything she wants]], [[BrattyHalfPint she's a brat]], and [[TinyTyrannicalGirl she has some degree of power]]. More so than anything, Pistol can't be the woobie because she's ''happy.'' Not "usually chipper", although she is that too. She has a pretty satisfying life, that even Max would envy. And this is why we only feel sorry for her in a couple of episodes at most.
!!! Peg
Peg seems an odd choice for the next round, since she is less happy than Goofy and Max generally, and is much more sympathetic than Pete (but I'll get back to them later). Really despite being the more sympathetic partner in a NoAccountingForTaste relationship, we can't really call her a LoveMartyr for one big reason: she has more power than anyone else on the show. Now, Pete, as the antagonist, has power over everyone else, though he chooses not to exercise it over Pistol terribly often. [[FieryRedhead Peg can boss him around.]] [[MamaBear She also has the role of the unconditional protector of the entire cast.]] Basically, even if Peg's life could be better, she doesn't need our sympathy, because she can take care of herself.
!! TheWoobie: An interesting element of character diversity.
PJ is TheWoobie, which is pretty much undeniable. The show went all out to make sure we damn well felt sorry for that kid, and so we did. But what about the other characters? TheWoobie is a nebulous concept that's often hard to define. Though Analysis.TheWoobie sheds ''some'' light on the issue, it really does depend on many factors. But it's not meaningless, nor should it be so ridiculously strict that only someone like PJ (who according to the PlayingWith page qualifies as a justified exaggeration, not to mention his specific primary source of suffering was chosen for the hypothetical straight example) could ''possibly'' count. So here, we'll go step by step explaining what traits each character has that makes them, can make them, or prevents them from being, TheWoobie.
!!! Pistol
Pistol theoretically should have the same sort of chance for PJ to be TheWoobie, raised in the same environment. But nope. There are a variety of factors at play that make Pistol the ''least'' likely candidate out of all of the others. In order of importance they are: [[ParentalFavoritism she's the favorite]] and [[DaddysGirl loves her daddy very much]], [[CheerfulChild she's seldom seen without a smile]], [[SpoiledBrat she gets almost everything she wants]], [[BrattyHalfPint she's a brat]], and [[TinyTyrannicalGirl she has some degree of power]]. More so than anything, Pistol can't be the woobie because she's ''happy.'' Not "usually chipper", although she is that too. She has a pretty satisfying life, that even Max would envy. And this is why we only feel sorry for her in a couple of episodes at most.
!!! Peg
Peg seems an odd choice for the next round, since she is less happy than Goofy and Max generally, and is much more sympathetic than Pete (but I'll get back to them later). Really despite being the more sympathetic partner in a NoAccountingForTaste relationship, we can't really call her a LoveMartyr for one big reason: she has more power than anyone else on the show. Now, Pete, as the antagonist, has power over everyone else, though he chooses not to exercise it over Pistol terribly often. [[FieryRedhead Peg can boss him around.]] [[MamaBear She also has the role of the unconditional protector of the entire cast.]] Basically, even if Peg's life could be better, she doesn't need our sympathy, because she can take care of herself.
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# [[WellDoneSonGuy Often feeling guilty for not doing enough or not living up to his father's expectations]], which is shown best in "To Heir Is Human", "From Air to Eternity", and "Tub Be or Not Tub Be"
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# [[WellDoneSonGuy Often feeling guilty for not doing enough or not living up to his father's expectations]], expectations]] and overly responsible for often age-inappropriate tasks in general, which is shown best in "To Heir Is Human", "From Air to Eternity", and "Tub Be or Not Tub Be"
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Some of the signs are rather blatant, but others (such as the ExtremeDoormat behavior) are more subtle. [[http://helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm Appropriate reading]] that shows ''Goof Troop'' has ShownTheirWork. You'll find under the "signs of emotional abuse" heading that several of these signs are in some way listed.
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Some of the signs are rather blatant, but others (such as the ExtremeDoormat behavior and the generalized overly responsible behavior) are more subtle. [[http://helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm Appropriate reading]] that shows ''Goof Troop'' has ShownTheirWork. You'll find under the "signs of emotional abuse" heading that several of these signs are in some way listed.
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Now, there's another possibility and that's that Social Services ''does'' exist, and PJ has tried talking to them and they just flat-out didn't believe him. Given his role on the show as TheCassandra and how many abuse victims, once again, in real life, are not believed, especially when the brand of abuse apparently doesn't come with visible scars/bruises... it's not too hard to imagine.
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Now, there's another possibility and that's that Social Services ''does'' exist, and PJ has tried talking to them and they just flat-out didn't believe him. Given his role on the show as TheCassandra and how many abuse victims, once again, in real life, are not believed, especially when the brand of abuse apparently doesn't come with visible scars/bruises... it's not too hard to imagine.
imagine.
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Of course, as the page itself says: "There's a simple reason for this with the consistently abusive parents - the abuse is a big part of the series or movie, and if Social Services did step in and take the kids away, they'd probably never let them go back." We know this, but since this show plays AbusiveParents so seriously and realistically (not as a HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood), it just makes SocialServicesDoesNotExist's use more obvious, much like on the show with a similar (though less immediate) attitude, ''WesternAnimation/HeyArnold'', which notably had people asking about poor Helga and Stoop Kid not getting rescued on its {{Headscratchers}} page ''twice''.
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Of course, as the page itself says: "There's a simple reason for this with the consistently abusive parents - the abuse is a big part of the series or movie, and if Social Services did step in and take the kids away, they'd probably never let them go back." We know this, but since this show plays AbusiveParents so seriously and realistically (not as a HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood), it just makes SocialServicesDoesNotExist's use more obvious, much like on the show with a similar (though less immediate) attitude, ''WesternAnimation/HeyArnold'', which notably had people asking about poor Helga and Stoop Kid not getting rescued on its {{Headscratchers}} page ''twice''.''twice''.
Now, there's another possibility and that's that Social Services ''does'' exist, and PJ has tried talking to them and they just flat-out didn't believe him. Given his role on the show as TheCassandra and how many abuse victims, once again, in real life, are not believed, especially when the brand of abuse apparently doesn't come with visible scars/bruises... it's not too hard to imagine.
Now, there's another possibility and that's that Social Services ''does'' exist, and PJ has tried talking to them and they just flat-out didn't believe him. Given his role on the show as TheCassandra and how many abuse victims, once again, in real life, are not believed, especially when the brand of abuse apparently doesn't come with visible scars/bruises... it's not too hard to imagine.
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Added DiffLines:
"Meanwhile Back at the Ramp" is another episode that shows dissonance between Pete's mind and PJ's. When the trophy is being given to the best father/son pair in town, Pete assumes he is the best father. PJ blankly stares the whole time; he doesn't think they'll win or even look disappointed that he knows they won't. When Goofy's name is (unsurprisingly) called, and Goofy accidentally knocks Pete into his food, PJ giggles. He tries to stifle it a bit, but the audience knows--PJ is absolutely not taken with his father's parenting and finds it amusing to see that other people agree with him. Just like in "A Goofy Movie," Pete does believe that his parenting methods are good. Many abusive parents do not simply deny the allegations of abuse to protect themselves; they do not realize they're doing it at all.
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!!! Major Red Flags
These are not consistent signs, but rather things that PJ does at one point that are alarming with or without context. In "And Baby Makes Three" he counts down the days until he can leave home at age eleven without looking anything up ''or'' thinking very long, implying he has done so before, calls himself a "feudal serf"--why not a slave? It's possible stopping just short would highlight just how little of that comment was hyperbole. Considering the sorts of things that pass for "slavery" in the minds of some people today, like in the Music/{{Blink182}} song "Anthem", calling himself a feudal serf could come off as ''more'' alarming. Or he could be avoiding a cliche on purpose as {{Foreshadowing}} for his HiddenDepths, though that's not a topic for this essay--and explicitly cries for help.
In "Take Me Out of the Ball Game" he literally begs his father for a break after working for six hours. In "All the Goof That's Fit to Print", he shudders, stammers, and braces himself when he asks Pete to pay them. It's obvious whenever Max and PJ work together on something, Max is much more willing to complain about unfair treatment than PJ is.
"Good Neighbor Goof" features the most depressing line. What makes it so depressing isn't the text alone--which states that PJ has never had fun before in his life--but the subtext too--which implies that he's willing to accept ''never being happy again.'' Both those things in conjunction add up to something the kid should never say.
These are not consistent signs, but rather things that PJ does at one point that are alarming with or without context. In "And Baby Makes Three" he counts down the days until he can leave home at age eleven without looking anything up ''or'' thinking very long, implying he has done so before, calls himself a "feudal serf"--why not a slave? It's possible stopping just short would highlight just how little of that comment was hyperbole. Considering the sorts of things that pass for "slavery" in the minds of some people today, like in the Music/{{Blink182}} song "Anthem", calling himself a feudal serf could come off as ''more'' alarming. Or he could be avoiding a cliche on purpose as {{Foreshadowing}} for his HiddenDepths, though that's not a topic for this essay--and explicitly cries for help.
In "Take Me Out of the Ball Game" he literally begs his father for a break after working for six hours. In "All the Goof That's Fit to Print", he shudders, stammers, and braces himself when he asks Pete to pay them. It's obvious whenever Max and PJ work together on something, Max is much more willing to complain about unfair treatment than PJ is.
"Good Neighbor Goof" features the most depressing line. What makes it so depressing isn't the text alone--which states that PJ has never had fun before in his life--but the subtext too--which implies that he's willing to accept ''never being happy again.'' Both those things in conjunction add up to something the kid should never say.
Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
Of course, as the page itself says: There's a simple reason for this with the consistently abusive parents - the abuse is a big part of the series or movie, and if Social Services did step in and take the kids away, they'd probably never let them go back. We know this, but since this show plays AbusiveParents so seriously and realistically (not as a HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood), it just makes SocialServicesDoesNotExist's use more obvious, much like on the show with a similar (though less immediate) attitude, ''WesternAnimation/HeyArnold'', which notably had people asking about poor Helga and Stoop Kid not getting rescued on its {{Headscratchers}} page ''twice''.
to:
Of course, as the page itself says: There's "There's a simple reason for this with the consistently abusive parents - the abuse is a big part of the series or movie, and if Social Services did step in and take the kids away, they'd probably never let them go back. back." We know this, but since this show plays AbusiveParents so seriously and realistically (not as a HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood), it just makes SocialServicesDoesNotExist's use more obvious, much like on the show with a similar (though less immediate) attitude, ''WesternAnimation/HeyArnold'', which notably had people asking about poor Helga and Stoop Kid not getting rescued on its {{Headscratchers}} page ''twice''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 27 (click to see context) from:
"Axed By Addition" hints at Pete's motivations. In this episode, Pete has a breakdown, because he is afraid PJ is dying. Listen to what Pete says. In the beginnings of his rant, he uses ArsonMurderAndJaywalking immediately followed by BreadEggsMilkSquick. This suggests that Pete honestly does not see a difference between making PJ use a handkerchief and sending him to obedience school for not cleaning his room. This, combined with the fact referred to in the work page's AbusiveParents entry that Pete appears to mistake fear for respect, suggests that Pete honestly does not know the difference between discipline and abuse. This can actually explain both his treatment of PJ and of Pistol, whom he doesn't abuse. Rather, he spoils her--lets her run off with very little discipline. And, much like the warning signs listed above are for abused children, this is very much TruthInTelevision for many abusive parents. The line that shows it the best? "I want you to know that all those nasty, horrible things I did to you were only done with the best intentions!" Pete's intentions were to discipline his child, but he ended up abusing him instead.
to:
"Axed By Addition" hints at Pete's motivations. In this episode, Pete has a breakdown, because he is afraid PJ is dying. Listen to what Pete says. In the beginnings of his rant, he uses ArsonMurderAndJaywalking immediately followed by BreadEggsMilkSquick. This suggests that Pete honestly does not see a difference between making PJ use a handkerchief and sending him to obedience school for not cleaning his room. This, combined with the fact referred to in the work page's AbusiveParents entry that Pete appears to mistake fear for respect, suggests that Pete honestly does not know the difference between discipline and abuse. This can actually explain both his treatment of PJ and of Pistol, whom he doesn't abuse. Rather, he spoils her--lets her run off with very little discipline. And, much like the warning signs listed above are for abused children, this is very much TruthInTelevision for many abusive parents. The line that shows it the best? "I want you to know that all those nasty, horrible things I did to you were only done with the best intentions!" Pete's intentions were to discipline his child, but he ended up abusing him instead.instead.
!!! SocialServicesDoesNotExist
Despite the existence of "Date with Destiny", it seems that most of the time Social Services ''Really'' Does Not Exist, considering that Pete has done all of the following things and not gotten in trouble: admitted to doing many abusive things in the middle of a hospital, and if we take his word for it, actually sent a kid to obedience school once ("Axed by Addition"), said he would treat his neighbor's kid like his "own son, only better" in the middle of a courtroom, with the son right there to scowl at him for the comment ("Bringin' on the Rain"), verbally abused his son in front of public officials ("Tub Be or Not Tub Be"), let his eleven-year-old run his used car dealership for a day ("To Heir Is Human"), and gotten caught in the act of child labor violations ("Mrs. Spoonerville"). Whether you believe Pete needs parenting counseling or that there's no hope and PJ should be taken away immediately, ''something'' should be done.
Of course, as the page itself says: There's a simple reason for this with the consistently abusive parents - the abuse is a big part of the series or movie, and if Social Services did step in and take the kids away, they'd probably never let them go back. We know this, but since this show plays AbusiveParents so seriously and realistically (not as a HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood), it just makes SocialServicesDoesNotExist's use more obvious, much like on the show with a similar (though less immediate) attitude, ''WesternAnimation/HeyArnold'', which notably had people asking about poor Helga and Stoop Kid not getting rescued on its {{Headscratchers}} page ''twice''.
!!! SocialServicesDoesNotExist
Despite the existence of "Date with Destiny", it seems that most of the time Social Services ''Really'' Does Not Exist, considering that Pete has done all of the following things and not gotten in trouble: admitted to doing many abusive things in the middle of a hospital, and if we take his word for it, actually sent a kid to obedience school once ("Axed by Addition"), said he would treat his neighbor's kid like his "own son, only better" in the middle of a courtroom, with the son right there to scowl at him for the comment ("Bringin' on the Rain"), verbally abused his son in front of public officials ("Tub Be or Not Tub Be"), let his eleven-year-old run his used car dealership for a day ("To Heir Is Human"), and gotten caught in the act of child labor violations ("Mrs. Spoonerville"). Whether you believe Pete needs parenting counseling or that there's no hope and PJ should be taken away immediately, ''something'' should be done.
Of course, as the page itself says: There's a simple reason for this with the consistently abusive parents - the abuse is a big part of the series or movie, and if Social Services did step in and take the kids away, they'd probably never let them go back. We know this, but since this show plays AbusiveParents so seriously and realistically (not as a HilariouslyAbusiveChildhood), it just makes SocialServicesDoesNotExist's use more obvious, much like on the show with a similar (though less immediate) attitude, ''WesternAnimation/HeyArnold'', which notably had people asking about poor Helga and Stoop Kid not getting rescued on its {{Headscratchers}} page ''twice''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
!! AbusiveParents, SocialServicesDoesNotExist, and the Warning Signs
to:
!! AbusiveParents, SocialServicesDoesNotExist, AbusiveParents and the SocialServicesDoesNotExist
!!! The Warning Signs
!!! The Warning Signs
Changed line(s) 5,21 (click to see context) from:
# [[NervousWreck Constantly apprehensive of doing something wrong]]
# Sometimes afraid to go home
# Eager to leave home
# Repeatedly terrified of his father’s harsh punishments including being disproportionately horrified of [[YouAreGrounded being grounded]]
# Uncomfortable whenever Pete touches him
# Unlikely to want to spend time with his dad
# [[ExtremeDoormat Extremely passive and compliant]]
# [[ShrinkingViolet Excessively timid and self-doubting]]
# [[WellDoneSonGuy Often feeling guilty for not doing enough or not living up to his father's expectations]]
# Hopelessly pessimistic
# Despondent much of the time
# Often unaware he deserves any sort of courtesy at all
# [[LivingEmotionalCrutch A little bit too reliant on Max’s company]]
# Surprised or suspicious whenever Pete [[PetTheDog is remotely kind to him]]
# Extremely grateful when [[ParentalSubstitute Goofy]] shows him some mild affection
Some of the signs are rather blatant, but others (such as the ExtremeDoormat behavior) are more subtle. [[http://helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm Appropriate reading]] that shows ''Goof Troop'' has ShownTheirWork. You'll find under the "signs of emotional abuse" heading that several of these signs are in some way listed.
# Sometimes afraid to go home
# Eager to leave home
# Repeatedly terrified of his father’s harsh punishments including being disproportionately horrified of [[YouAreGrounded being grounded]]
# Uncomfortable whenever Pete touches him
# Unlikely to want to spend time with his dad
# [[ExtremeDoormat Extremely passive and compliant]]
# [[ShrinkingViolet Excessively timid and self-doubting]]
# [[WellDoneSonGuy Often feeling guilty for not doing enough or not living up to his father's expectations]]
# Hopelessly pessimistic
# Despondent much of the time
# Often unaware he deserves any sort of courtesy at all
# [[LivingEmotionalCrutch A little bit too reliant on Max’s company]]
# Surprised or suspicious whenever Pete [[PetTheDog is remotely kind to him]]
# Extremely grateful when [[ParentalSubstitute Goofy]] shows him some mild affection
Some of the signs are rather blatant, but others (such as the ExtremeDoormat behavior) are more subtle. [[http://helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm Appropriate reading]] that shows ''Goof Troop'' has ShownTheirWork. You'll find under the "signs of emotional abuse" heading that several of these signs are in some way listed.
to:
# [[NervousWreck Constantly apprehensive of doing something wrong]]
wrong]], which is shown best in "Good Neighbor Goof", "Meanwhile, Back at the Ramp", and "A Goofy Movie"
# Sometimes afraid to gohome
home, which "A Goofy Movie" shows the best
# Eager to leavehome
home, as is shown most obviously in "And Baby Makes Three"
# Repeatedly terrified of his father’s harsh punishments including being disproportionately horrified of [[YouAreGrounded beinggrounded]]
grounded]], which is shown best in "Pistolgeist" and "A Goofy Movie" for the former, "Axed By Addition" and "Bringin' on the Rain" for the latter
# Uncomfortable whenever Pete toucheshim
him, shown fairly well in both "Good Neighbor Goof" and "Winter Blunderland"
# Unlikely to want to spend time with hisdad
dad, which is shown the best in "Slightly Dinghy" and "Waste Makes Haste"
# [[ExtremeDoormat Extremely passive andcompliant]]
compliant]], which is shown best in "And Baby Makes Three", "Bringin' on the Rain", and "Good Neighbor Goof"
# [[ShrinkingViolet Excessively timid andself-doubting]]
self-doubting]], which is shown best in "From Air to Eternity", "Max-Imum Insecurity", "O R-V, I N-V U" and "An Extremely Goofy Movie" pre-character-development
# [[WellDoneSonGuy Often feeling guilty for not doing enough or not living up to his father'sexpectations]]
expectations]], which is shown best in "To Heir Is Human", "From Air to Eternity", and "Tub Be or Not Tub Be"
# Hopelesslypessimistic
pessimistic, which is shown best in basically every Max episode
# Despondent much of thetime
time, which is shown best in the majority of his focus episodes and both halves of the pilot
# Often unaware he deserves any sort of courtesy atall
all, which shows up in both movies and a lot of Max episodes
# [[LivingEmotionalCrutch A little bit too reliant on Max’scompany]]
company]], most obviously shown in "Good Neighbor Goof" and "Slightly Dinghy"
# Surprised or suspicious whenever Pete [[PetTheDog is remotely kind tohim]]
him]], as is shown in "Puppy Love" and "Terminal Pete"
# Extremely grateful when [[ParentalSubstitute Goofy]] shows him some mildaffection
affection, like in "O R-V, I N-V U"
Some of the signs are rather blatant, but others (such as the ExtremeDoormat behavior) are more subtle. [[http://helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm Appropriate reading]] that shows ''Goof Troop'' has ShownTheirWork. You'll find under the "signs of emotional abuse" heading that several of these signs are in some waylisted.listed.
!!! Pete's Motivations
"Axed By Addition" hints at Pete's motivations. In this episode, Pete has a breakdown, because he is afraid PJ is dying. Listen to what Pete says. In the beginnings of his rant, he uses ArsonMurderAndJaywalking immediately followed by BreadEggsMilkSquick. This suggests that Pete honestly does not see a difference between making PJ use a handkerchief and sending him to obedience school for not cleaning his room. This, combined with the fact referred to in the work page's AbusiveParents entry that Pete appears to mistake fear for respect, suggests that Pete honestly does not know the difference between discipline and abuse. This can actually explain both his treatment of PJ and of Pistol, whom he doesn't abuse. Rather, he spoils her--lets her run off with very little discipline. And, much like the warning signs listed above are for abused children, this is very much TruthInTelevision for many abusive parents. The line that shows it the best? "I want you to know that all those nasty, horrible things I did to you were only done with the best intentions!" Pete's intentions were to discipline his child, but he ended up abusing him instead.
# Sometimes afraid to go
# Eager to leave
# Repeatedly terrified of his father’s harsh punishments including being disproportionately horrified of [[YouAreGrounded being
# Uncomfortable whenever Pete touches
# Unlikely to want to spend time with his
# [[ExtremeDoormat Extremely passive and
# [[ShrinkingViolet Excessively timid and
# [[WellDoneSonGuy Often feeling guilty for not doing enough or not living up to his father's
# Hopelessly
# Despondent much of the
# Often unaware he deserves any sort of courtesy at
# [[LivingEmotionalCrutch A little bit too reliant on Max’s
# Surprised or suspicious whenever Pete [[PetTheDog is remotely kind to
# Extremely grateful when [[ParentalSubstitute Goofy]] shows him some mild
Some of the signs are rather blatant, but others (such as the ExtremeDoormat behavior) are more subtle. [[http://helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm Appropriate reading]] that shows ''Goof Troop'' has ShownTheirWork. You'll find under the "signs of emotional abuse" heading that several of these signs are in some way
!!! Pete's Motivations
"Axed By Addition" hints at Pete's motivations. In this episode, Pete has a breakdown, because he is afraid PJ is dying. Listen to what Pete says. In the beginnings of his rant, he uses ArsonMurderAndJaywalking immediately followed by BreadEggsMilkSquick. This suggests that Pete honestly does not see a difference between making PJ use a handkerchief and sending him to obedience school for not cleaning his room. This, combined with the fact referred to in the work page's AbusiveParents entry that Pete appears to mistake fear for respect, suggests that Pete honestly does not know the difference between discipline and abuse. This can actually explain both his treatment of PJ and of Pistol, whom he doesn't abuse. Rather, he spoils her--lets her run off with very little discipline. And, much like the warning signs listed above are for abused children, this is very much TruthInTelevision for many abusive parents. The line that shows it the best? "I want you to know that all those nasty, horrible things I did to you were only done with the best intentions!" Pete's intentions were to discipline his child, but he ended up abusing him instead.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
!! AbusiveParents, SocialServicesDoesNotExist, and the Warning Signs
What exactly are the warning signs for AbusiveParents talked about in the SocialServicesDoesNotExist entries and on the SlidingScaleOfParentShamingInFiction? The signs referred to include PJ being:
# [[NervousWreck Constantly apprehensive of doing something wrong]]
# Sometimes afraid to go home
# Eager to leave home
# Repeatedly terrified of his father’s harsh punishments including being disproportionately horrified of [[YouAreGrounded being grounded]]
# Uncomfortable whenever Pete touches him
# Unlikely to want to spend time with his dad
# [[ExtremeDoormat Extremely passive and compliant]]
# [[ShrinkingViolet Excessively timid and self-doubting]]
# [[WellDoneSonGuy Often feeling guilty for not doing enough or not living up to his father's expectations]]
# Hopelessly pessimistic
# Despondent much of the time
# Often unaware he deserves any sort of courtesy at all
# [[LivingEmotionalCrutch A little bit too reliant on Max’s company]]
# Surprised or suspicious whenever Pete [[PetTheDog is remotely kind to him]]
# Extremely grateful when [[ParentalSubstitute Goofy]] shows him some mild affection
Some of the signs are rather blatant, but others (such as the ExtremeDoormat behavior) are more subtle. [[http://helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm Appropriate reading]] that shows ''Goof Troop'' has ShownTheirWork. You'll find under the "signs of emotional abuse" heading that several of these signs are in some way listed.
What exactly are the warning signs for AbusiveParents talked about in the SocialServicesDoesNotExist entries and on the SlidingScaleOfParentShamingInFiction? The signs referred to include PJ being:
# [[NervousWreck Constantly apprehensive of doing something wrong]]
# Sometimes afraid to go home
# Eager to leave home
# Repeatedly terrified of his father’s harsh punishments including being disproportionately horrified of [[YouAreGrounded being grounded]]
# Uncomfortable whenever Pete touches him
# Unlikely to want to spend time with his dad
# [[ExtremeDoormat Extremely passive and compliant]]
# [[ShrinkingViolet Excessively timid and self-doubting]]
# [[WellDoneSonGuy Often feeling guilty for not doing enough or not living up to his father's expectations]]
# Hopelessly pessimistic
# Despondent much of the time
# Often unaware he deserves any sort of courtesy at all
# [[LivingEmotionalCrutch A little bit too reliant on Max’s company]]
# Surprised or suspicious whenever Pete [[PetTheDog is remotely kind to him]]
# Extremely grateful when [[ParentalSubstitute Goofy]] shows him some mild affection
Some of the signs are rather blatant, but others (such as the ExtremeDoormat behavior) are more subtle. [[http://helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm Appropriate reading]] that shows ''Goof Troop'' has ShownTheirWork. You'll find under the "signs of emotional abuse" heading that several of these signs are in some way listed.
