Discussion Main / KnightOfCerebus

Per TRS, non-serial works are now allowed:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1634757867053926400&page=7#comment-173

(Ignore the part about renaming in that post. We retracted that decision.)

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Tropes named for Cerebus, started by Ganondorfdude11 on Oct 11th 2010 at 7:35:20 AM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Misused, started by NinjaDragon on Aug 15th 2014 at 2:29:37 AM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Ambiguous Name, started by azul120 on Feb 26th 2017 at 9:51:52 AM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Ambiguous Name, started by azul120 on Feb 28th 2017 at 3:04:49 AM

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Clean-up effort in progress. See this thread if you would like to see what all the fuss is about, or to contest any removed examples.

Cerebus Syndrome is a prerequisite for this trope, so examples with villains that appear in a single installment of a work, or works lacking a long term tone shift will be removed.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax" Hide / Show Replies

Should the definition of Knight of Cerebus be changed?

As it stands, the written definition for Knight of Cerebus is: "Villain who is dark and serious compared to his light-hearted and comedic predecessors".

However, the most commonly used definition seems to have become a more general: "A villain far more threatening than it's predecessors, who's very presence creates a darker shift in the tone of the story."

Now, we could just clean up and delete every entry that falls under the second definition, but

A) At this point that would probably be about 70% of the page.

B) We kind of already have a trope for serious villians in light-hearted works.

and

C) I feel a general: "Villian that creates a darker tone shift" is a worthy trope in and off itself.

Edited by Giantleviathan Hide / Show Replies

After reading the examples, this Troper also tends to find that the writing tends to go right downhill the moment this occurs; said character usually pulls crap out of nowhere and is generally written poorly. Probably due to the character just been suddenly introduced, with little to no back-story, no proper justification for abilities, or otherwise is a cop-out.

Hide / Show Replies

How come whenever a Knight of Cerebus has a Laughably Evil demeanor they're ranked lower than ones with no comedic traits?

"In shows that are generally Lighter and Softer, said villain may have some light-hearted or comical traits, but still gives a much higher sense of dread and genuine threat to the heroes than previous adversaries." What are some examples of this?

No "Bowser's Fury" questions please. I haven't played it yet.

Am I the only one feeling that Knight of Cerebus these days has become an euphemism for Complete Monster, since many such examples tend to have "Knight Of Cerebus" under their character entry? If so, when isn't a CM a Knight of Cerebus?

P.S. On the other hand, I know that not all Knights of Cerebus are Complete Monsters.

I got my political views from reddit and that's bad Hide / Show Replies

I think a lot of these examples don't fit at all. Many of them can be summed up as "this series is dark from the beginning to the end, but X is slightly more evil than the other villains, so X is the Knight of Cerebus". No, my friend, X is not. The knight of cerebus is someone who permanently changes the tone of the series, if the series was already dark before that character came, that doesn't count. Some villains are also being mentioned just because they are more powerful or more plot relevant than others. But being the Big Bad does not automatically make someone the Knight of Cerebus.

I think a clean up is in order.

I recently noticed that the subversions for Knight of Cerebus seem to have been removed from the film/live action category of the trope. Is there a specific reason for this?, if so, What would be the criteria to add an example of a subversion?

And suddenly it all made sense, for there was no story without an end,no effort without a reward , no life without a meaning, even in death.

Just after glancing at this trope, I think we should mark this as a spoiler trope and unblock all the tags. The very appearance of what kickstarts a work's Cerebus Syndrome is a pretty important factor. What say you all?

Edited by 66.110.220.126

An awful lot of examples on this page are media that were ALREADY quite dark and serious, and the Knight of Cerebus only made things even more so. Are these legitimate instances of the trope, or is a cleanup in order?

I'm thinking we should rename this for one simple reason: Bad Trope Namer. Cerebus is not only an aversion, but a webcomic many may not be familiar with, not to mention that the trope name kind of suggests Cerebus himself is the Vile Villain part of an otherwise Saccarine Show.

Hide / Show Replies

Is it possible for non-villainous characters to fall under this trope?

I always found this one confusing because the main page says it's about villains played for drama instead of humor, but the subpages' descriptions (Playing With - Basic and Laconic) say that it's about a character (no statement of how they're implemented or even if they're 'good guys' or 'bad guys') who signals the tone shift.

Hide / Show Replies

I don't think Miko of Order Of The Stick qualifies. She doesn'nt kill Shojo until long after she is introduced and little else is her fault.

Wouldn't Kagari from Black★Rock Shooter count? Let me explain. When Mato meets Yomi, she is already depressed, but things start to get more melodramatic once she appears. Her first appearance is Nightmare Fuel, she is a Psycho Lesbian who carves a heart in Yomi's chest, falls down the stairs so that Yomi wouldn't leave with Mato, and she psychologically cracks. After those two episodes, Yomi starts dipping into psychological problems, Mato tries to save her, etc.

So the name came from Cerebus which doesn't have a true example?

Will I be informed if people reply to my discussion post?

I think I'm gonna remove the One Piece example.

"The early villains of One Piece tend to provide much comic relief and very rarely give off a threatening tone"? Really? Are you talking about Morgan, who tried to kill a five-year old girl for bringing food to a convict? Or maybe Kuro, who wanted to slaughter an entire village, then his own crew, for money? Hell, even Buggy killed his own subordinate with a cannon in his first appearance. That's some serious comic relief right there!

Edited by Goremand

I'm wondering whether this trope should only include deathly serious villains or also include comparative examples (eg. a clownish yet genuinely effective villain compared to a bunch of genuinely HarmlessVillains may still count), especially since a lot of examples on the site are less than true to the former (one page even refers to Yosemite Sam as one, which abiding by WB' statements, certainly doesn't abide to the former, but is actually true to the latter).

Hide / Show Replies

This page used to have a picture. Is there a reason why it was removed?

Hide / Show Replies