Discussion Main / CosmicEntity

Depends. Physical God has nothing to do with power.

It isn't being rewritten. Speaking as someone with literally encyclopaedic knowledge of its history, all of it is entirely matter-of-fact true as far as I know, and I did compromise by merging in your version. If you want to go down that road, might as well ask why you felt the need to rewrite it as a Crapsaccharine World Polish the Turd false glorification hideaway?

Basically nearly every single showcased cosmic entity qualifies as insane degrees of entitled and conceited casually genocidal pure evil by human standards, at best of the Lawful Evil variety, with the rare exceptions of Eon, Uatu, and Ashema... Or possibly Chaos&Order, who thus far have mostly seemed True Neutral.

Oh, sure you could probably do the usual utterly inane Beyond Good And Evil faux-enlightened Broken Aesop Hand Wave, but it doesn't really hold water unless the entities truly aren't aware of what they are doing or strictly acting through unconscious processes far beyond the scale they affect. Once they are shown to hold actual conversations with the people they victimise, they definitely aren't apart anymore.

I know that strangely enough there actually are people who feel as strongly and defensively about this as Scientologists do about their sci-fi sect, but even if they somehow manage to rationalise the validity, despite ludicrous inherent requisites for the mythology, and tons of contradictions, the actions still have the same horrible consequences for the inhabitants, so it doesn't make the MU any less of a mixed Lovecraft Mythology + "Eternal torture owens for almost everyone! Yay!" High Octane Nightmare Fuel setting. Not to mention all the regular gorn and galactic genocides, alien armada slaver fleets, and high-order psychopath thrill-killing living nuclear Weapons of Mass Destruction running around in the streets, even without involvement from any higher powers.

No offense but your take is largely biased, to the point you even inserted a pothole on the comment that the mythos had been correlated over time (which they HAVE, whether successfully or not is another matter) to basically make fun of the idea (that qualifies as natter.) The Wiki is for facts, not personal opinions. We have It Just Bugs Me! and Wild Mass Guessing pages for that. Please make such a page and put your ideas there, and allow the main one to be as neutral as possible.

Polish the Turd Crapsaccharine World treatment is much less neutral than matter of fact statements of what's been explicitly shown; there are in fact massive ongoing contradictions Depending on the Writer, and the notion of keeping the works and continuities of fiction between different writers consistent is ridiculous in the first place, which is the entire reason for the Running the Asylum trope; basically every trope on this wiki is littered with and contingent om the honest impressions of the contributors, who are heavily encouraged to use different types of trope-referencing comedy, if you want reverence and "sacred cows" there is the Marvel wiki, whereas honest informative deconstruction beyond the facade is the entire point of this one; you also kept any "opinion" that you happened to agree with.

Anyway, seriously, what's so odd about the current version? The "OAA" is mostly a catchy meme, and most writers don't bother to keep it straight; the LT has not intervened when half the multiverse was wiped out by the Time-Keepers, does enforce the literally worse than Nazi-level eternal torture system, was perfectly willing to destroy an entire universal population simply because it thought the "Ultimate" version was cooler; even the company itself recently recognises that Galactus is the most ridiculous character and unsympathetic (the defence/Odin literally sounded exactly like Benito Mussolini) incoherent concept ever created, he has been shown as fully capable of feeding on non-sentient stars or cosmic power sources, and strictly be interested in the amount of Joule/energy, but seldom bothers to seek them out, and Thanos even took him to task about this, as well as an enormous hypocrite fully willing to attack and slaughter other at least as "necessary", and far more benevolent, cosmic functions such as Epoch to feed on the, Mark Gruenwald, who wrote the modern origin story established that he was a non-abstract, the current astronomic theories state that the universe will continue to expand forever, and won't need a restart, Abraxas (and Mikaboshi) is a direct contradiction to Chaos and Oblivion already being established, and so on... basically it tends to take a religious level fervour to still justify all of that; and beyond that Jim Starlin depicted pretty much all entities, even Eternity, as assholes, the latest Eternals series even stated outright that the moral entities with a conscience were extremely rare. So as far as I know nothing whatsoever was taken out of thin air, just taken matter-of-fact literally, and then channelling the dumbfounded impression into something hopefully amusing, which again is my impression as the entire point of this Wiki as it is what basically every page consists of.

Still, help to make the text flow better, with the content mostly intact, would naturally be very appreciated, but the "cosmology" definitely shouldn't be taken too reverently and the Daily Show tone is inherent to this place. Running the Asylum level negative continuity is not a good thing, as it almost always ends up as tons of Broken Aesop, and limiting storyteller ability to write coherent, self-contained, enjoyable stories... not to mention that far more constructive writers will be limited by God-Mode Sue Nietzsche Wannabe predecessors like Jim Starlin, or complete Jerkass Darwinists like John Byrne or Frank Miller, which only serves to corrupt even imagination into purely destructive, unsatisfying/hollow, and addictive paranoia- or High Octane Nightmare Fuel.

I'm not saying you don't have a fair point; many Marvel stories themselves have pointed out the unfairness of this cosmic system (starting with Korvac back in the '70s- you're not the only one with encyclopedic knowledge of Marvel) and yes, most of this is because Writers have no overall vision beyond "this would make for a great fight!" Still, officially these beings ARE True Neutral (in most cases) and no, the Marvel Afterlife is NOT just about its Hells. What really bothers me is your seeming bias- you even keep saying the article offered a Polish the Turd attitude when it didn't. Again, put in all the facts you want, argue them in the Discussion Page if you will, but keep the main one as matter-of-fact as possible.

They aren't shown as True Neutral but as, at best, Lawful Evil, opposed by Chaotic Evil Lovecraft-inspired entities; there is no "one true vision", just a lot of contradictions, no matter that some outspoken online fans prefer to focus on just selective parts; Disproportionate Retribution style eternal torture and even more so ridiculous levels of Acceptable Hard Luck Targets style Moral Dissonance really has turned into the most dominant message in superhero cosmic, along with the addiction rather than enjoyment focus (it's no coincidence that so many former fans have switched to anime such as One Piece due to Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy) and Fred Van Lente is just the latest in a row who stated outright that anyone he (or maybe rather Dante Alighieri) doesn't like, i.e. the vast majority of all sentient beings will be Paranoia Fuel tortured forever and ever, and deserve to be so (after a sufficient amount of material at least on par with Three Hundred it turns extremely hard not to see the viewpoints of a considerable amount of "creators" as Moral Myopia crypto-fascism, or at least part of what they produce really does come across that way); and I have barely fit in anything of what I've been saying into the article itself, certainly not remotely beyond the usual standard for articles, and the point of this place is dumbfounded Deadpan Snarker Daily Show deconstruction. You get the lies and incoherent glorifications of absolute evil everywhere else, but here you get the truth with a dose of laughter, that's the main point of this place as I see it. This is to entertainment what the Daily Show is to news. Some place needs to cut past the falsehoods and get straight to the core essence past the catchy slogans. There are plenty of places for everything else. I'm Literal-Minded, with extremely limited filters, so I automatically think like this place, and in that respect is well-suited for it, but the flipside is that I also don't filter the output well, so it recurrently turns too long.

Anyway, I am obviously willing to compromise, as long as you focus on quality/flow and not on Polish the Turd. Personally I think that all continuity should be scrapped altogether, so that each artist team would be free to focus entirely on story to create their own version of reality, without being bogged down by a Mussolini-Nietzsche-Lovecraft-Rand-Macchiavelli ideology mixture. The world doesn't need any more of that, and after finally managing to roughly process all of the nightmarish destructive impressions in-depth, I personally even like The Superhero Squad Show considerably better than what they fed us with. Then again, I'm autistic, more than medium but less than extreme, and this sort of neverending halfbaked incoherent stuff should seriously have a parental warning warning label as extremely dangerous for autistic children. Again, I haven't included this on the page however, but I'm extremely ill at ease with depicting these entities/characters with blind reverence.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion, it isn't any more valid than mine because it's Marvel (not the fans and not its individual writers) who determine what their characters are; take your view to any Editor and see if they agree. And I actually *agree* with you that Shonen manga is doing these days what superhero comics SHOULD be doing, especially DC comics (whose universe is even more unfair than Marvel's if you ask me.) I'm NOT showing reverence for these beings, just pointing out Marvel's vision of them which is one of "necessary evil". You CAN add your POV to TV Tropes, just don't act as if it's the only one, much less the official one.

Look, I'm not going to engage on an edit war over this. But don't be surprised if other people disagree and change it later- this is a Wiki and for better or worse, the opinion of the majority rules. I'm done here.

Apologies about the "reverence" remark. I've talked to people who literally see these cosmic characters the way hardcore fundamentalists or scientologists do about their religions... to say nothing of the Lovecraft addicts... which gives rise to very tired Face Palm reactions after a while. You have not at all behaved like them here.

I wouldn't say all Shōnen Manga. Just as One Piece, Historys Strongest Disciple Kenichi, or even Fairy Tail, and others, are wonderful; whereas Bleach, Soul Eater, Shaman King, Houshin Engi, Kekkaishi, and others are reprehensible, but yeah lately One Piece has turned into the very high standard to aspire for, and rightly deserves to be the most popular comic ön.the planet; although there are western shows that also roughly get it (the life affirmation, rather than drown with darkness and defilement, or perverting it into Acceptable Hard Luck Targets fascist doctrines) as well, such as Avatar The Last Airbender or Phineas And Ferb.

Anyway, editorial "official lines" are always obliged to be ridiculous amounts of Polish the Turd, and as such are largely irrelevant. If an absolutely entitled character tortures most of humanity forever for kicks, stands by in term of multiversal genocide, even though it could easily have prevented it, or regularly kills universal populations on a whim, but some writer liberally starts to quote Mussolini to justify that this is right and good, whereupon some editor feels obliged to back it up, then nobody should give any more credence to this than BP spindoctoring after the oil spill.

Anyway, I'll try to streamline the text later to flow a bit better.

You Could Always Edit It Yourself.

Uh, it was *me* who added them in the first place. Somebody else added the "might". I was just looking for discussion as to whether it should be kept.

The folder list was added that way, I think someone just copy-pasted the full list without any examples in them ( I added the current ones). I agree the empty ones should be removed.